Absolutely shocked that the South African oligarch/gamer is a white supremacist.
He’s not a gamer just wants the incel cred
His desperation to impress a bunch of dweebs on the internet is as bizarre as it is pathetic.
I genuinely wouldn't swap spots with Musk if it meant I had to adopt his character and reputation. Fuuuuck that I'm happy where I am.
I agree, I’d rather make a million dollars ethically than have what Elon has along with his ethics.
I feel like this is an example of the dangers of surrounding yourself with a monoculture. Maybe Elon was always exactly this way, but he was seemingly previously tempered by the notably distinct moderation policies at Twitter. Once he owned it and stripped that moderation, there's nothing holding the pendulum anymore and he swings pretty far the other direction.
Maybe he was always this way and not public about it, but things changed for the worse right around when his trans daughter came out.
Between that and covid I think he went down a rabbit hole further entrenching things and turned into a MAGA type as that rabbit hole does to those that go down it.
And now he won't even listen when his brother and the chair of the board of Tesla tells him he's hurting the brand.
Edit: just to clarify, "the woke mind virus" is what thinks took his daughter away, and now he is hellbent on destroying it, not realizing it's him who's been infected by hate and bigotry
Between that and covid I think he went down a rabbit hole
Nahh... he was always this way. If your daughter coming out as trans "turns" you into a right-winger, it just means you were always a right-winger.
I don't think that's quite the same.
You might always lean a certain way, but before, he maybe didn't really care about trans people one way or another. As soon as his daughter came out as trans though he becomes faced with a choice.
Some people when they are faced with the choice, even if they might seem like they'd go against their child, don't.
He doubled down unfortunately and made the wrong choice.
He doubled down unfortunately and made the wrong choice.
No, that's not the choice he made. The status quo rewarded Phony Stark for being a right-wing douchebag - long before he even had a daughter . He chose to remain a right-wing douchebag because he was rewarded for it. He simply made the choice the vast majority of the rich either has made or will eventually make.
So once he wouldn't get in trouble for openly being a bigot, he openly became a bigot?
He owes his entire life to apartheid and slavery in all senses that matter. And even when he was everyone's hero and a real life Tony Stark, he threw a temper tantrum when divers chose to rescue children and not stroke his ego. To the point he accused one of the divers of pedophilia, ran an investigation, and used a team of lawyers to protect himself from any consequences.
Musk has always been a dipshit
I mean that checks out. Trump has made his ilk say the quiet part out loud these days
And why democracy is important as a form of error correction. People can have their opinions, and inevitably we all get things wrong (magnitude of things we get wrong varies a lot). But when someone has a large concentration of power we all have to deal with the fallout from their malfunction. Companies the size and import of Twitter, Facebook, Reddit should be democratically controlled, some kind of cooperative.
Fully agreed. The authoritarian institution of shareholders and CEOs makes large companies prone to arrogance and short-term decision-making, democratic control of these large companies would make the economy much healthier.
I can't tell which is the bigger influence but he has certainly gone down the right wing rabbit hole and also insulated himself from all critique as a billionaire who has everyone he talks to regularly on his payroll or otherwise benefitting from him. A bad mix.
Also the part where his parents ran an emerald mine there.
Zambia. That's where the mine was.
There are days I wait for it, but I imagine one of these days the top is going to pop on South Africa and we are going to not like the skeletons we find there.
but I imagine one of these days the top is going to pop on South Africa
What do you mean by this?
The answer is, I do not know.
People like Elon's family didn't get rich in an emerald mine without Tesla's business ethics. After all, who do you think Elon learned it from?
And was Elon's family the only one? Are we sure of that? Corruption like that doesn't happen in a vacuum and not without support.
They got rich the same way rich people everywhere get rich - by exploiting impoverished and disempowered labor to the max. The only difference with the Apartheid-regime (to whom Elon owes his riches) was that they were pretty overt when it came to who it was that got to be the impoverished and disempowered labor.
To be clear... that hasn't really changed all that much in South Africa. But, then again, it hasn't really changed in the US, either.
Wait do you mean any day now we could be confronted with the revelation that South African mining companies under apartheid weren't exactly top of the class in business ethics? But how
Imagine being literally the richest person in the world. You can afford anything, you can go anywhere, you can do anything. But you spend most of your free time begging for attention from absolute strangers. What a pathetic little bitch.
Right? If I had even a fraction of a percent of his wealth, I'd disappear into a life of anonymous bliss, never to be heard from again.
MySpace Tom comes to mind. Bless that guy.
This is the line of thinking that gets me to listen to the “no such thing as an ethical/moral/good billionaire” types. These are people who had $50 million, $100 million, $500 million, and decided they had to keep working, acquiring, and exploiting.
After awhile, it becomes competitive. Like achieving a high score on a leaderboard. Most of the billionaires are now over 70 hence the race to squeeze everything before they die so that they can "win".
Right? If I was that rich I'd get attention by... actually doing helpful things with the money.
Shit commission a giant statue of yourself that urinates Coca-Cola into a public fountain, free coke for everyone, just go to the PP Statue! That's what I'd do....
Course I'm female so my statue would have to be squating, that may make it unwieldy...
Creative liberties may be taken when designing a statue of yourself, so don't worry, you can take any pose you want
If you're squatting, it comes straight down instead of in an arc where the wind can blow it around. Easier to fill your cup that way. I endorse this plan!
He really does need a hobby. Maybe he can take up sailing or adventuring. Then we don’t have to hear about him at all until some fawning obituary lauding his contributions to humanity and recognizing the pioneering spirit that led to his tragic and early demise.
With whites you definitely have a point, but it’s a little different when whites have at various times in history attempted to erase your culture in numerous ways, including outlawing your language, clothing, music, dance, martial arts, traditional healing systems, religious beliefs, hair styles, etc, while converting you to what they believe to be valid and acceptable.
That’s being proud of your culture though, not your race. Culture is something you willingly engage in, and you definitely have the right to be proud of it (and that includes Italian culture, Greek culture and all other types of white culture as well).
But race? Saying “I’m proud of being black” means nothing when American black people and African black people barely have anything in common that isn’t the color of their skin.
Culture is very much tied to race and where those people came from. It still happens now. It should be obvious without explanation. It’s not at all difficult to find stories about black students sent home from school because their hair is “not ok.”
It’s tied but it’s different. A lot of third+ generation immigrants have the same customs as locals, and you wouldn’t tell them apart if not for physical traits, for example.
It’s also weird how stuff that used to be shamed about turned to reasons of pride. We (as in, non-racist people) realized shaming people for their hair is stupid, why would being proud of it not be just as stupid?
It’s not weird at all. If one race has systematically tried to beat you down throughout history and convince you that your race and culture are inferior, there’s all the reason in the world to reclaim respect for all that your people almost lost, and tell that race to fuck off if they don’t like it, and be proud of it. Gay pride isn’t race based, but it’s definitely a similar thing from a different direction. It sounds like you need to spend significant time sitting and talking with people of cultures that have been through it.
It’s correct to demand equality and apologies for what happened in the past, but beyond it isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?
I would love to talk more about this with people who are directly involved in it, but even then, races/sexualities are not a monolith and that person I spoke to might have a completely different opinion from the rest. Plus I feel like you need to be very intimate with someone to have that kind of talk, so it’s not easy at all. I also comment my opinions on the internet because it’s a simple way of finding people who disagree and might give you a different point of view.
isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?
No. I can’t imagine there’s a single person who has ever felt legitimately proud about being discriminated against in a manner you suggest.
Proud of continuing the traditions of one’s ancestors so they aren’t permanently lost to historic racism or diluted in the modern melting pot, via artistic expression, etc, yes.
You still have plenty of time to talk to people and change your viewpoint.
True that. Candice Ownens is the perfect example of a racist POC disowning their entire culture to not be associated with anyone but white Republicans. She's culturally white and it's a choice.
I always read black as "American black people", and there there definitely is a shared culture, of having ancestors that were slaves and not knowing where in Africa they came from because the slavers didn't care
That's because their ancestors experienced a forced diaspora and slavery that was partially designed to destroy their sense of culture and identity. It's a distinct group of people from Africans. Black is just how they choose to refer to themselves.
These sociological definitions aren't always perfect. Strictly speaking, Musk is African, but he isn't who you usually think of as part of that group.
If you belong to a group that has been historically oppressed, being proud of your race/culture is a sign of rebellion.
It’s weird to have pride in race if you experience no adversity because of it. Since white people don’t face the same kind of challenges white pride just feels like “I’m proud of my privilege”, whereas with black pride it’s more “I’m proud of who I am despite the challenges I face because of it”. Same goes for other things like LGBT pride, it’s celebrating who they are even if it cause them a lot of hardship.
Couldn't it be sort of an affiliation with the full history of the White Man, for better or for worse? I don't take pride in my skin color, but it does represent a fascinating time in human history and early human migration. This is purely academic of course, no actual person who says they are "proud of being white" would ever say that or likely even be aware of the history and the science, but it could be.
The problem lies in the definition of "pride". You can be proud of who you are without comparing yourself to others. You can be proud of who you are without thinking less of others, or treat them as inferiors. In fact I'd say it's mandatory but not everyone gets that.
Not sure where I'm going with this, not arguing for or against per se, just exploring the concept because it's complex, interesting, and sadly ever so topical.
It's all semantics either way, just treat people with kindness and respect, and then you can be proud of who you are. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with being "proud" of ones features or traits. For instance, I have very blue eyes that have passed down through a ridiculous number of generations (n.b. not the exact same set), and I'm "proud" of them, in the sense that I'm glad I have them, that they remind me of my heritage and ancestry and family, and I hope that they will pass on to my offspring. I won't cry myself to sleep if they don't, but I think it's "nice".
Is there something wrong with me feeling this way? I don't think so. How could it be? It's nobody's business how I feel about my eyes. I go out of my way to treat people with kindness and respect, and I am proud of that. But also the eye thing.
Maybe that's the problem, perhaps we should just stop nagging and lecturing each other on our identities and preferences all the god damned time. Aren't you all tired of it also?
I can relate, I also have a weird hair quirk my grandma had as well, I like it and I’m glad I have it, but I wouldn’t really say I’m “proud” of it.
Yes, in the end it’s all semantics and there’s nothing really “wrong” with it, I just find it weird, like astrology or ultras, idk.
I just find it weird, like astrology or ultras, idk.
I think you accidentally hit the nail on the head there. When you and I feel proud of our features, we are proud over the features themselves- not proud of identifying as part of the group of "all blue eyed people" or "all weird hair quirk people".
It's the affiliation with, to a greater or lesser extent, some group, and that group's interests:
As a proud blue-eyed person, I couldn't care less about what all other blue-eyed persons think, and unless there'd be fewer than a thousand left of us I couldn't even conceive of any collective agenda such a group might have had.
As a proud black person, I would be highly motivated to care about and affiliate with all other black persons, because they would share experiences with me, and to a great extent negative or hateful.
As a proud homosexual, I would likewise affiliate with others of my kind or who have had similar experiences.
Even as a proud Ultras member, I can see how you would affiliate like so, even if the reason for it would rest on an artificial division between some arbitrary group- belonging to Ultras is not a physical trait, it's made up, but there at least is some rationale.
As a proud white person? If white people were selectively persecuted, I sure as hell would affiliate with them, but they aren't.
Anyone still on Twitter at this point for whatever their reasons, have to recognize what group they are in.
Sadly my local emergency services still uses them to let the community know what’s going on. Denver PD is still doing a good job updating their page and I wish they would move to Mastodon here sooner rather then later
You could suggest to connect their Xitter to a mastodon server so it automaticaly forward posts (crosspost), could be a good thing for a first move!
Yeah, I've seen people complain about bots on mastodon but generally I'm all for it. Especially for accounts that you don't interact with too much but more-so just want updates from.
So, Elon dislikes that white people can't be proud of being white.
Why would a person of any race be proud of their race? Shouldn't people be proud of their own accomplishments, and those of the people they've helped?
I never really understood the rationale here. I support Pride Month for example, but I think the language is kind of wrong.
Shouldn't people be proud, despite traits which have historically been denigrated?
This is a serious question BTW.
When your ancestors have been targetted, racialized, abused and enslaved for centuries and the effects of that are still felt to this day, and when you are still being racialized and abused because of the colour of your skin and your heritage, you feel like you have nothing to be proud of. The world is telling you you don't matter, that 'your kind' deserves it.
THAT'S why POC are so adament about being proud. Because when a racist tells them they're worth nothing, and when the world tells them they're nothing, they need to rely on themselves and their community.
Being proud is resistance. Against all the shit that has been done to POC, and the shit that is still being done today.
White pride is not resistance, other than resistance to the idea of black pride taking over from a centuries old status quo where white people were the only ones who 'mattered'. You're not resisting anything with 'white pride'. You're taking away voices and dignity of POC.
It's no wonder the only people who unironically say 'white pride' are fucking nazis. That should inform anyone about the whole concept of it. Don't weaponize your whiteness.
I was sitting here thinking it's pretty silly to be proud of things you have no control over, even if you appreciate it over other possible variations of a given attribute. Using it as a means of personal or societal deprogramming is valuable, though, so long as it doesn't extend to denigrating people who are 'other', otherwise you end up with the same problem but different people suffering.
That's a great writeup
In my mind, LGBTQ Pride is generally called that because Shame was, at least in contemporary history, a huge driver in suppressing LGBTQ existence and freedoms. If it was called LGBTQ No-More-Shame, it would remain antithetical but might not be as catchy. I'm sure other groups will employ the same argument, but it is difficult to overstate how powerful shame and social stigma specifically suppressed LGBTQ expression, and still attempts to in some ways.
There are other better choices than No-More-Shame.
LGBTQ Honor / Dignity / Glory (on second thought, this one may conjure images of bathroom stalls, so maybe not this one)
Dignity is pretty solid.
To be fair, the right would immediatly counter with "white dignity" or "straight dignity" and accuse everyone holding up LGBTQ+-dignity or black dignity of denigrating white dignity and complain about an atmosphere where "whites aren't allowed to feel the dignity of their race anymore".
Because that's just how they work.
I think there are a few major problems here:
There legitimately are powerful people who are systemically oppressing non-whites/non-straights.
There is a significant amount of people that lack empathy and have never experienced personally this type of systemic oppression, and thus don't believe it's real. This is particularly evident on the right where empathy is in short supply. See also: my abortion is the only moral abortion, the government shouldn't be supporting these freeloaders (but make sure my HUD/food stamps/social security show up on time!), Obamacare needs to be abolished (but don't drop me from my insurance I need my meds!), etc.
Back to point number one, even the blue team has been unfortunately ignorant about the level of systemic oppression and often serves as a validating factor. It's one of the small things that I think have been positive about the social media era, these stories are getting to far more people than they used to. When I was in school in the 2000's, if you asked basically anyone in my predominantly white school (including me, tbh) they probably would have said racism is basically a solved problem and is only a tiny little fraction of the actual experience for POC/LGBTQ++, etc. People with empathy pick up on this faster, but if you say ACAB in a room full of blue team, you're probably still going to get a lot of pushback...
Speaking of ACAB, a big part of the problem is that people just do not fucking get nuance. Most of even the staunchest ACAB supporters don't believe that everyone who is a cop or will become a cop is a bastard/bad person, the point is that the institution of policing in this country is systemically racist, systemically corrupt, and systemically insulated from consequences in a way that is unjust and bad for society. Or, shorter, we have heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment, and know that when you give people this type of power you can expect bad things. Thus, there isn't a way to be a moral cop because the system removes the ability to stay moral, which is also why a lot of those that we would call "good" cops are forced out of the field. Anyway, pretty fucking hard to fit that on a bumper sticker, so we end up with things like ACAB/BLM/Pride, etc.
Idk the stereotype that gays are indignant polyamorous debaucherists still persists to this day. Even though the straights are still equally as debaucherous. Put differently, people have a different perception of guys who have a lot of Tinder hookups as opposed to guys that have a lot of Grindr hookups. Gay men are much more likely to be slut-shamed than straight men.
I don't actually think Dignity is a better choice than Pride, I just didn't feel like being argumentative to someone who I think was receptive to my initial argument. I agree with you 100%.
He's completely wrong too. Celebrating American, European, or general Western heritage is very commonplace, to the point that the US even has a holiday for itself. If that isn't enough for someone, then odds are they're just a fucking racist.
Most of the time, there's a country or region you can celebrate the heritage of. The only exceptions are Jewish people and black people, but that's because they had forced diasporas, persecution, and/or slavery. Their ethnic identity to a region was stripped from them.
I mean I'm mostly German but don't really celebrate it. A: I don't feel at all German. B: there's a bit of history surrounding Germans even though none of my ancestors were in the country for any of that. C: I'm already the dominant culture/race where I was born. What would I be celebrating? That I'm the same as everyone else? We could have a big cookout where we celebrate our culture by eating the same food we eat every day, wearing the same clothes we wear every day, etc. Oh wait this is already every get together...
Yeah exactly. I just need to go outside to get the culture of where I'm living.
I am proud of my German heritage, but mainly because,
Both my parents immigrated from Germany, and met each other over here.
I love German food (grew up with it)
I love most of the German culture (grew up with it blended with Canadian culture)
Aside from the hassle of memorizing grammatical gender, I love how German sounds. I can also speak it with only a trace of an accent.
I have been to Germany, and I love the feel of the country (although I have an aversion to large populations, so it would be very difficult for me to live there).
But would I ever celebrate being of German heritage? Nope. Why should I? The only reason why I love my German heritage boils down to an accident of conception. Heck, I don’t even celebrate being Canadian.
If I was to celebrate anything, it would be for being a member of humanity, and to a wider degree, being alive in a universe that is almost completely hostile to life (we are living on the only known life-compatible planet).
I think everyone should be proud of their race, which is the human race... No matter ones ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. we are all the same race. Yes, I know in this context race means something else. But, my point still stands. If everyone would stop worrying about our little meaningless differences and realize that we are all the same race. We would be much better off. Yes, I know that will never happen.
This has always bugged me. It's strange how labeling someone as "racist" actually works in the racists favour; you're partially validating their point by implying there's a greater biological gap than actually exists.
Bigot works well as a replacement if this bugs you, and it's probably more accurate, people with "racist" views are more likely to be homophobic too.
I mean, idk about other cultures/langages but it does feel weird as fuck to french speakers that English even has a concept of "race" for humans in the first place. In french we only use the word "race" for animals. If you want to refer to someone's ethnicity, well, that's the word you use ("ethnie"). Although iirc the distinction is quite recent (from the enlightenment period or something).
And we also have the word "raciste" which refers to one's belief that there are human races, it doesn't validate that belief.
I'm considering this from the perspective of taxonomy. Race is basically a synonym for "subspecies" which is pretty fucked up.
Yeah iirc that's also why human races aren't really a thing in french.
Although we do use that word for animals' breeds (which are just subspecies iirc) but I guess that's just because it wouldn't really be french if there were no weird exceptions
At least the French got that going for them.
Hurry up and overthrow your government already, everyone is waiting for one of your classic revolutions.
yea yea yea we're waiting till the very last moment so it can look all theatrical and fabulous
Yeah unfortunately our government has been pretty much continuously giving absurd levels of power to the police and they're paving the way for the fascists to win the next elections so it's not looking too good
Why would a person of any race be proud of their race?
In the cases of actively oppressed people, particularly people that were assigned a race regardless of actual national origin, and then were denigrated for being that race, it's a point of pride to say that "our people" (who you basically forced "us" to become not on the basis of our shared heritage or nationality but purely on the basis of lumping together everyone with the same color skin) survived and thrived, and eventually developed our own culture despite the shitty circumstances.
White people don't fit into this category because nobody forced people to be white and then said they weren't citizens in the country or that they could only live in certain towns, forcing them to band together as one and develop their own white people culture with basically strangers, and nobody robbed them of their history and forced them into brutal chattel slavery for hundreds of years.
Edit: Most white people who care to do so still have an understanding of their lineage, national origin, religion, and/or festivals, and many of those are or were celebrated in their own ways: St Patty's Day, Octoberfest, Christopher Columbus Day (which was basically an Italian pride day originally), Catholic holidays, Jewish holidays, etc.
This opens a whole new can of worms for me.
Can a gay person who has never experienced homophobia rightfully celebrate Pride Month?
Can a black person who was adopted by white parents and has no black cultural influence be proud of being black?
In any case, I understand the sentiment, I'm not saying "I don't understand why black people want to be recognised and celebrate the victories afforded to them by their ancestors".
What I don't understand is the specific vernacular of the word "pride" in these cases. Rosa Parks was a BAMF, but why would I be proud of her? I didn't put the idea in her head, I didn't give her the courage to sit at the back of the bus.
Whether I'm black or white has no bearing on whether I should be proud of anything outside of my own influence; I'm convinced identity politics gets us nowhere.
Those gay people wouldn't have a need to celebrate Pride Month.
Sadly, no gay person on this planet has never experienced homophobia, even in the most LGBTQ+ friendly countries in the world.
Whether I’m black or white has no bearing on whether I should be proud of anything outside of my own influence; I’m convinced identity politics gets us nowhere.
When you're born, you aren't just dropped out of the clear blue sky onto a level playing field fully defined by the merits of your own actions. Life isn't a lone survivor video game.
You're born in context: historically, financially, genetically, and otherwise. Some people take pride in their heritage, their lineage, their culture, their traditions, etc etc etc. Just because it isn't your cup of tea and you'd rather only celebrate what you consider to be your own accomplishments (and I say it this way on purpose because without your born context there's no guarantee that your life would've turned out as it did) does not mean everyone views the world the same way.
I think more generically you should ask yourself why it bothers you so much when people celebrate aspects of their identity.
I'd largely have no problem with "white pride" festivals if the concept even made any sense at all (which it doesn't, and which is why it's basically "white power" with a tiny PR tune up), but these "events" are basically just Klan rallies. Versus look at most pride festivals. They're full of people dancing and singing and genuinely celebrating things they have in common with one another (or in some cases, like with gay pride and ally ship, things they simply have an affinity for).
I think you may be viewing my thoughts through an uncharitable lens. I am not bothered at all when anyone celebrates any aspect of their identity.
I'm a white Australian; my ancestors committed atrocities, yet, I do not feel shame for their actions, because I wasn't involved. I can only take shame in how I have acted.
To reiterate, the definition of pride is localised to the individual. It doesn't make sense to be proud of someone else's accomplishments if you haven't helped them.
A parent may feel proud if their child has done well, they have contributed to their success. However, if my college in a different department gets a promotion, I shouldn't.
Now extend this to people you don't know, and it makes no sense at all.
This is human nature at end of day. If it's not being white/black, it's your football team, what country you're from, or on lemmy crap like whether you use Linux or not.
I never understood it myself but people are morons.
Absolutely. Tribalism is toxic.
At least Linux is a choice.
I use Arch BTW.
I get the sentiment, and it's not a black and white (sorry for the pun) answer I think. And yes, celebrating your culture should be good for everyone.
Unfortunately, some people saying "pride" mean "There are great things in the culture and people where I emigrated from" and some people mean "the culture and people where you emigrated from are trash". And "white pride" has historically been used by people meaning the latter.
Pointing out that "white pride" COULD also mean the former doesn't remove the implication it comes with for the latter. If I wanted to express the former, I would pick different words. A person doing otherwise usually either expresses ignorance, callousness to the second implication, or them just trying to get away with saying it meaning the second thing by hiding behind the first.
Just to clarify, I'm not asking about the implication of "white pride", just the semantics of pride in general.
It reminds me of "Black Lives Matter" - of course they do, but too many people heard "only black lives matter", when what they're trying to say is "black lives matter too".
These twits responded with "All Lives Matter", which, of course, is also true, but the implication is the discreditation of the suffering of black people.
I think a lot of these issues, unfortunately, are a failure of the Left. There are so many slogans which are either poorly thought out, or intentionally inflammatory. For example, "defund the police", "all cops are bastards", "math is racist".
We can't expect the Right to read between the lines, it's up to the Left to use better language so we don't give them more ammo.
The right will often purposefully misrepresent whatever the left uses as a slogan. So only so much can be done there. As for the use of racial pride, I find that often those who can claim no accomplishments in themselves will often claim pride by association. They could claim pride in race, but really any group. This could be considered a defense mechanism for their own ego as they are not okay accepting their own short comings.
Deliberate misrepresentation can only be employed if one understands the original intent.
If a malicious person wants to try to convince others "Black Lives Matter" means "only black lives matter", they may have a pretty clear shot (assuming they're trying to convince someone Right of Centre).
If it was rebranded to "Black Lives Matter Too", then they would have a harder time trying to be deceitful.
I'm convinced there are more people in the camp of failing to read between the lines.
In either case, language games are important; playing poorly will lead to catastrophic outcomes. The worst part is this is so easy to correct for - a little bit of imagination will illustrate predictable backlash, or lack thereof.
Fair enough. My conservative family is on the side of purposefully misunderstanding, but I can understand that some may just misunderstand and we should mitigate that when we can.
God damn, I don't envy you.
Having a family which is consciously malicious must make for some very frustrating conversations.
I, on the other hand, have a right-of-centre family who are mostly just too dull to extrapolate, and spend too much time on FB.
At least in my case I can sometimes dispel misconceptions.
Besides my severe trust issues I am fine, life is better now that I have mostly cut them all off.
Because in this case it's talking more about KKK type of "white pride".
For context, here's the full tweet Elon is endorsing as all these articles are omiting it for some reason
Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
I’m deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don’t exactly like them too much.
I'm curious. In this context, what are "whites"? Are Jewish people not white now or something? Or does "white" mean something else to him?
They mean normal. Non-ethnic. You know how there are aisles in the grocery store for foods from various cultures? Think of the potato chip aisle. Default human, with basic features and simple ideologies. Christian, western, self-determining, literate but not erudite, proud and apathetic, powerful and resigned, and thoroughly egocentric.
That's how they see the world. It's a special level of narcissism borne from generational privilege. When they talk about "whites," that's what they mean, because they don't have any sort of self awareness or concern for how they are perceived by others.
I'm pretty sure by white he means white, non-jewish europeans which also includes white americans since they're from europe aswell but wether jews are considered white depends on who you ask. I believe that most jews don't think of themselves as that either, though some do. I'm guessing it has something to do with being an oppressed minority. Then again white supermacists for example don't consider them white either because they're not "pure" or something.
I don't think there's any conclusive answer to this. In my opinion focusing on skin color is a stupid question to begin with. Asians aren't generally considered white either though they seem pretty white to me. Friend's wife is black but her skin is barely darker than mine. Go figure.
You would have to measure your head to convince Elon that you're white enough.
Draws a lot of attention to the fact that "white" is a construct that is tied up intimately in supremacy narratives. Irish and Italian people were at times not considered "white" because they were discriminated against as immigrant populations. To the supremacist, whiteness defines an "us" so whether Jewish people are considered "white" is really depends on the level of anti semitic sentiments present.
It's part of why "White Pride" is a really bad idea. Part of the experience of being white is tied up in the legacy of exclusion based on class or othering and how genocides, murders and exploitation based on the ideas of white supremacy shaped the world through empire and those systems haven't exactly been dismantled. Until whiteness is basically "fixed" so that this is a factor of the distant past the correct way to interact with one's own whiteness is more to reflect on the complexities of the history and modern application of it and realize that while being light skinned isn't something to be ashamed of throwing a party about it is still in poor taste.
Jewish people have never been "white" to antisemites. (Real antisemites, I mean, as opposed to people who have the gall to say Palestinians are human.)
"are Jewish people white" is one of those questions where the answer seems to ebb and flow with the tides.
Thanks for transcribing the tweet so that others don't have to give it excessive clicks. This might be his new worst mask off moment.
Unfortunately, a bunch of people will probably act shocked while continuing to use the platform that he owns 80% of rather than move to alternatives.
I appreciate you providing the actual tweet... but I have no idea how to translate it. The double/triple negative really throws me for a loop and I don't even know how to read this. I assume there's more that has Elon talking white pride somewhere else? Am I blind or naive in not seeing the problem in the post?
Edit: Oh, I see, the post BEFORE that one was saying asking people to "just come out and say 'Hilter was right'" if that's what they believed and this was a response by someone. Ouch.
Given what I have seen from working with a company that worked with them chances are the person who handles the ads is about 80 years old and hasn't actually clocked in the past decade.
X CEO Linda Yaccarino has said that most of the platform’s biggest advertisers have returned after dropping the site due to its moderation changes, but Media Matters previously showed that they’re spending far less than they used to. Yaccarino responded later on Thursday, writing that X has been “extremely clear about our efforts to combat antisemitism and discrimination.”
"There is no bombing at the airport"
“There is no bombing at the airport war in Ba Sing Se”
Elon is slowly but surely tearing down everything he has created.
Elon is slowly but surely tearing down everything he has created
Bought.
Always a good distinction. Ever see presentations from the actual founders of Tesla? They are impressive.
What has he created? He bought himself into Twitter and Tesla... and the work is essentially done entirely by other people. i.e his employees
Yep. And his pet projects that he personally drives always crash and burn. He's the one that pushed the autopilot feature hard despite his engineers publicly objecting.
what has he created
One of the best PR campaigns in modern history. Just five years ago people on both sides of the political spectrum were seeing this guy as one of the smartest humans alive, who would actually put man on another planet.
Then he got rid of the PR team and started doing his own PR, and it went as well as it always does when Elon has direct control.
That last part can and probably will happen despite his public perception
Elon is slowly but surely tearing down everything he has created bought.
Fixed that for you
Every single accomplishment he has involves buying a company that was already doing it, establishing himself as a "founder", and then taking all the credit.
He could have gotten away with it too. I never drank the Kool aid with that guy. I know the charismatic sales tech evangelical type too well. I deal with them daily at work. When they stay in their lane they are fine, they bring in the business.
He's tearing down everything that other people created, you mean?
I was about to buy a white Tesla but now I'm not so sure about the Tesla at all, but especially that combination.
All he had to do was shut up. He could've thought all this stuff, maybe done some of it, and still been hailed as a hero. But the more he opens his mouth, the harder he makes it for anyone to overlook who he really is.
The lack of self-reflection going on here is so painful to watch.
Or he’s unlocking the only way to sell EVs to American conservatives.
Other people always did the actual work - he's just less effectively handled now, so his personal incompetence is harder to hide.
Except that so far he hasn't faced any real repercussions. He keeps selling cars and internet and getting contracts from NASA. A bunch of banks may have to write off their twitter investments but, much like trump for several decades, it will not significantly impact his ability to get new credit.
I'm honestly not going to do business with anyone who still maintains a presence on that platform much less advertise on it. Cheers to IBM for stepping up.
Tell me you're South African without you know.
That scene at the South African embassy in one of the lethal weapons movies. Oh man, fiction is so crazy. Right?
Did you know that South Africa helped Israel develop their nuclear armaments program?
I find an odd sort of satisfying humour that we know exactly where IBM draws the line, and it's right there.
All the more reason to have a hard line there now, I suppose.
Yep, now look up the dark past of basically any large corporation that existed at that time... wild stuff.
it makes me wonder why, when we see WWII movies or documentaries, why they are doing everything analog? Typewriters, handwritten letters, when we know they had IBM computers, which were sold to the Nazis including during the war, in direct contravention of sanctions. Could it be they want to hide that unsavory bit of history
Early computers were weighty, unreliable, and insecure. We've come a long way with network management, parity checking, digital encryption, smaller machines, and input devices that don't require punch cards. Even if we thought they could have adopted widespread use of computers in the 1940s, it would be a long time until people adapted to the sudden change.
You couldn't even purchase a modem until 1958. ARPANET was the first wide area network actually put to use in 1970 connecting computers on opposite coasts of the United States after four years of development, and it largely wasn't improved upon until ARCNET in 1986.
The Nazis literally used custom made IBM punch cards to keep records of their undesirables. I know society at large was mostly unaware of computers, but did they did play a role in WWII. We see cipher devices like Enigma in historical documentaries and fiction, but we don't see the computers that calculated bomb and rocket trajectories, and least of all the Nazi's database which seems quite well buried in footnotes, though it was critical in the holocaust.
I still stand by the answer to your likely rhetorical question is that it wasn't really hidden that much it simply was utilized so little that the exact sites and personnel that used computers of the time are incredibly few in number, so while easy to document and possibly quite impactful: it also wasn't a very big part of the era as a whole.
Twitter/X is going to end up selling boner pills and conspiracy theories. Way to burn through 44 billion dollars, Elmo.
He dismantled a liberal and progressive worldwide platform, that was 44 billion well spent to him and his financial backers. Everything else is just his personal fun, kinda like how you drive a scrap car through the fields one last time to see how long it runs without oil.
I'm not seeing where the "return on investment" comes in. I just see a lot of wasted money.
The return in investment is the rise of fascism. Capitalists are scared of the people and are trying to control the narrative now.
If we take from the list of investors e.g. the Saudis - one revolution like the Arab Spring not happening is worth alone the entire 44 billion, but of course their share was smaller than that,
Is there a list somewhere of the companies advertizing on this thing? Could be useful to ask them what they think about that!
Hey guys I think this Elon Musk guy might be not so great...
A white south african guy is racist? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
What do you think SpaceX, mars colonization and Cybertruck are about? His bizarre twist on climate is to sell to rich prepper folks the post-apocalyptic fantasy that they will get something to drive while they wait for their ferry to the mars colony where, one would assume, they would reign over the pleb workers. More libertarian than fully alt-right or traditional conservatism.
The company that sold automation to Hitler: "This guy is a step too far"
The art of debate and discussion today is watered down to, "...but but that other thing is evil too!"
Can't talk about Uyghurs genocide because European settlers killed natives 500 years ago. IBM and Musk can both be bad. Same as time changes things and people.
Stop distracting from Musk's wrongdoings. What happened 90 years ago was 90 years ago. We can't change that. What we can do is influence change today. Thanks to IBM for not allowing their money to fuel Musk's machines.
I uhhh think it was just a joke...
I did not know that about IBM's history... 😬
Probably shouldn't look up any car companies then...
I'm familiar with those bits of history already, but wasn't aware of IBM. My dad worked at IBM for 30+ years, so they've always been relevant to my family (they have a dogshit corporate culture, not that that's surprising)
I'm no apologist but literally the country of Germany let that dude do all that shit but we've kinda let the whole country off the hook for that at this point, seeing how it was a really long time ago and the people involved aren't in charge anymore.
Have you seen their offices from the 1970s? It's like wall to wall Eames chairs. IBM deserves another chance.
No, look, you're not wrong. I'm not saying modern IBM is responsible for the holocaust or something like that. But:
It's important that people know the context of this company. Even if the executive team has followed the eightfold path and achieved enlightenment, what the context informs you about is why this should matter to IBM, why they might be responding to Musk.
Corollary to #1, an awful lot of companies took the hint over a year ago and fled Twitter then, so I think we can fairly ask, why does a company with this history not react immediately and in the strongest terms to any hint of white supremacist bullshit. If they want to show us they've changed and should be completely let off the hook, there should be people working there whose entire job is "make sure IBM is never implicated with Nazis again". God knows they can afford it.
The whole interaction gives us something to think about; less about IBM and more about Musk, as in, how low has he sunk that even IBM is finally reacting?
I think you'll find none of the same executives at IBM in 2023 that were alive in the 30s/40s.
So was this guy semi normal in the head at some point?
I am really wondering if he has been deteriorating over the last years.
Consensus from those with closer experience is that he's always been kind of an asshole, just not a crazy asshole. Also, the whole "Elon's a Tony Stark genius" was literally a marketing campaign and he used to have a really good PR person. He fired that person some years back (want to say around '17-'18?) got on twitter and let that fully rot his brain.
I think this is a fairly predictable outcome when you fire anyone who contradicts you and seem to spend your whole day hotboxing your own farts with a legion of minions in tow who will stop at nothing to tell you what a great experience that is.
Ketamine is a hellva drug!
I don't know for sure... I kinda liked him several years ago, but it was before all the media exposure, so he may have been this crazy his whole life
Probably not but appeared to be before developing a Twitter addiction and the Sub Incident.
At this point, if anybody asks, I never had a Twitter account. It's way too embarrassing to admit otherwise.
No normal public figure/organization would ever to be associated with this disgusting behavior, but this is the inevitable results engagement centric personalized algorithm, as conflicts create the highest amount of user engagement for the platform.
Most public organizations/figures should really think about running federated social media accounts on their own server, because having control over the server is the only way to 100% ensure your freedom of association online.
I don’t think it’s embarrassing to have had a Twitter account in the past. It’s not like anyone could have known Elon was gonna buy it
And Twitter wasn't all bad. People used it to spark, spread and fuel several sovial and political changes. It was the modern townsquare.
It's too bad it only amplifies nazis and fascists now, but there was a time when regular people had a voice there.
And this is why all news of Elon isn't necessarily good news nor free advertising for him. We don't have to trip over ourselves when he breathes, but when he's a piece of shit? Spread it as much as possible.
They just wait until they have everyone kissing their asses and fuck you money, then they let you see who they really are.
Elno fanboys will be like:
He just does that so users can enjoy less ads on X! 5D chess again, he is so smart UwU
"5d chess... First principles" **lick lick jerk jerk
-Lex Fridman in his last podcast
This app once sparked social changes and political revolutions. People used it to hold the guilty people accountable.
Then Elon bought it with funding from Saudia Arabia and a few others.
Then he made all the cartoonishly wrong changes. Now the app is dying.
It doesn't feel like incompetence to me. It feels like the app was murdered by the rich and the powerful for whom 44B isn't that big of a deal.
Can we please stop with the conspiracy theories and/or acting like Musk is smarter than he actually is. The fact that Musk tried to get out of buying Twitter is proof that there was no grand plan to take down Twitter. If you have a plan to buy Twitter and tear it down you don't go to such lengths to weasel yourself out of buying Twitter. And if you have a plan to take down Twitter you also must have a reason to take it down. I can't come up with a reason beyond pettiness and I somehow doubt anyone would spent billions out of pettiness. Even Musk in his pettiness to buy Twitter tried to get out if it.
The one other reason I could think of is trying to silence specific people, but then it makes no sense to tear down Twitter. What does tearing it down accomplish? The people you want to silence will move to a different platform and the other people who are the audience to those specific people are also driven to other platforms. You don't spend billions to annoy people into using a different platform. You spend billions to drive away the people you don't like and keep the audience, then it won't matter if those undesired people speak up because there's nobody to listen to them. If the goal is to silence some people then tearing down Twitter accomplishes nothing.
The more realistic explanation is that Musk isn't smart and doesn't know how to run Twitter.
Isn't he South African?
Maybe he as some assets the South African government can nationalize.
He needs to have Mypillow come and advertise his last remaining dollars.
Yaccarino responded later on Thursday, writing that X has been “extremely clear about our efforts to combat antisemitism and discrimination.”
To be fair, this is true. Elongated Muskrat is making it very clear what their efforts are.
The nuts and bolts are loose on this one boys.
At this rate xitter might as well die a slow death.
This is the slow death.
It's written xitter but the x is spoken like sh
90 years ago and IBM would have twittered harder
It’s so appropriate that this attempt by Musk to repeat history is just a low-effort reboot.
Character arc?
Maybe they pulled advertisement but then put in a bid for a human tracking system. They can sell it for pretty cheap because they've already got a working system.
At some point race should fade away as some other trait like eye color or attached/detached ear lobes.
Having said that: if everyone who has attached lobes is being blamed for the world problems then I think you may get push back.
Well, shit.... our expectations were low, but god damn.
How the times have changed...
Cheering for a total explosion on the launchpad this Saturday
I'm not. A lot of work of actually smart and skilled people went to it. It may be the private sector, but I still cheer for it as the achievement of humanity.
Yeah, human progress! It's not a rocket program unless there's a nazi involved. Otherwise its just a sparkling missile.
Absolutely shocked that the South African oligarch/gamer is a white supremacist.
He’s not a gamer just wants the incel cred
His desperation to impress a bunch of dweebs on the internet is as bizarre as it is pathetic.
I genuinely wouldn't swap spots with Musk if it meant I had to adopt his character and reputation. Fuuuuck that I'm happy where I am.
I agree, I’d rather make a million dollars ethically than have what Elon has along with his ethics.
I feel like this is an example of the dangers of surrounding yourself with a monoculture. Maybe Elon was always exactly this way, but he was seemingly previously tempered by the notably distinct moderation policies at Twitter. Once he owned it and stripped that moderation, there's nothing holding the pendulum anymore and he swings pretty far the other direction.
Maybe he was always this way and not public about it, but things changed for the worse right around when his trans daughter came out.
Between that and covid I think he went down a rabbit hole further entrenching things and turned into a MAGA type as that rabbit hole does to those that go down it.
And now he won't even listen when his brother and the chair of the board of Tesla tells him he's hurting the brand.
Edit: just to clarify, "the woke mind virus" is what thinks took his daughter away, and now he is hellbent on destroying it, not realizing it's him who's been infected by hate and bigotry
Nahh... he was always this way. If your daughter coming out as trans "turns" you into a right-winger, it just means you were always a right-winger.
I don't think that's quite the same.
You might always lean a certain way, but before, he maybe didn't really care about trans people one way or another. As soon as his daughter came out as trans though he becomes faced with a choice.
Some people when they are faced with the choice, even if they might seem like they'd go against their child, don't.
He doubled down unfortunately and made the wrong choice.
No, that's not the choice he made. The status quo rewarded Phony Stark for being a right-wing douchebag - long before he even had a daughter . He chose to remain a right-wing douchebag because he was rewarded for it. He simply made the choice the vast majority of the rich either has made or will eventually make.
So once he wouldn't get in trouble for openly being a bigot, he openly became a bigot?
He owes his entire life to apartheid and slavery in all senses that matter. And even when he was everyone's hero and a real life Tony Stark, he threw a temper tantrum when divers chose to rescue children and not stroke his ego. To the point he accused one of the divers of pedophilia, ran an investigation, and used a team of lawyers to protect himself from any consequences.
Musk has always been a dipshit
I mean that checks out. Trump has made his ilk say the quiet part out loud these days
And why democracy is important as a form of error correction. People can have their opinions, and inevitably we all get things wrong (magnitude of things we get wrong varies a lot). But when someone has a large concentration of power we all have to deal with the fallout from their malfunction. Companies the size and import of Twitter, Facebook, Reddit should be democratically controlled, some kind of cooperative.
Fully agreed. The authoritarian institution of shareholders and CEOs makes large companies prone to arrogance and short-term decision-making, democratic control of these large companies would make the economy much healthier.
I can't tell which is the bigger influence but he has certainly gone down the right wing rabbit hole and also insulated himself from all critique as a billionaire who has everyone he talks to regularly on his payroll or otherwise benefitting from him. A bad mix.
Also the part where his parents ran an emerald mine there.
Zambia. That's where the mine was.
There are days I wait for it, but I imagine one of these days the top is going to pop on South Africa and we are going to not like the skeletons we find there.
What do you mean by this?
The answer is, I do not know.
People like Elon's family didn't get rich in an emerald mine without Tesla's business ethics. After all, who do you think Elon learned it from?
And was Elon's family the only one? Are we sure of that? Corruption like that doesn't happen in a vacuum and not without support.
They got rich the same way rich people everywhere get rich - by exploiting impoverished and disempowered labor to the max. The only difference with the Apartheid-regime (to whom Elon owes his riches) was that they were pretty overt when it came to who it was that got to be the impoverished and disempowered labor.
To be clear... that hasn't really changed all that much in South Africa. But, then again, it hasn't really changed in the US, either.
Wait do you mean any day now we could be confronted with the revelation that South African mining companies under apartheid weren't exactly top of the class in business ethics? But how
Imagine being literally the richest person in the world. You can afford anything, you can go anywhere, you can do anything. But you spend most of your free time begging for attention from absolute strangers. What a pathetic little bitch.
Right? If I had even a fraction of a percent of his wealth, I'd disappear into a life of anonymous bliss, never to be heard from again.
MySpace Tom comes to mind. Bless that guy.
This is the line of thinking that gets me to listen to the “no such thing as an ethical/moral/good billionaire” types. These are people who had $50 million, $100 million, $500 million, and decided they had to keep working, acquiring, and exploiting.
After awhile, it becomes competitive. Like achieving a high score on a leaderboard. Most of the billionaires are now over 70 hence the race to squeeze everything before they die so that they can "win".
Right? If I was that rich I'd get attention by... actually doing helpful things with the money.
Shit commission a giant statue of yourself that urinates Coca-Cola into a public fountain, free coke for everyone, just go to the PP Statue! That's what I'd do....
Course I'm female so my statue would have to be squating, that may make it unwieldy...
Creative liberties may be taken when designing a statue of yourself, so don't worry, you can take any pose you want
If you're squatting, it comes straight down instead of in an arc where the wind can blow it around. Easier to fill your cup that way. I endorse this plan!
He really does need a hobby. Maybe he can take up sailing or adventuring. Then we don’t have to hear about him at all until some fawning obituary lauding his contributions to humanity and recognizing the pioneering spirit that led to his tragic and early demise.
I’ve always thought being “proud” of your race, any race, is a weird concept.
Like, you didn’t do anything to be white, or black, or asian. Why would you take pride in something you had no agency in?
It's a participation prize. Congratulations, you were born.
I "proud" of my poor eye sight, and and "proud" of my genetic high cholesterol 🎊🔥💯
With whites you definitely have a point, but it’s a little different when whites have at various times in history attempted to erase your culture in numerous ways, including outlawing your language, clothing, music, dance, martial arts, traditional healing systems, religious beliefs, hair styles, etc, while converting you to what they believe to be valid and acceptable.
That’s being proud of your culture though, not your race. Culture is something you willingly engage in, and you definitely have the right to be proud of it (and that includes Italian culture, Greek culture and all other types of white culture as well).
But race? Saying “I’m proud of being black” means nothing when American black people and African black people barely have anything in common that isn’t the color of their skin.
Culture is very much tied to race and where those people came from. It still happens now. It should be obvious without explanation. It’s not at all difficult to find stories about black students sent home from school because their hair is “not ok.”
It’s tied but it’s different. A lot of third+ generation immigrants have the same customs as locals, and you wouldn’t tell them apart if not for physical traits, for example.
It’s also weird how stuff that used to be shamed about turned to reasons of pride. We (as in, non-racist people) realized shaming people for their hair is stupid, why would being proud of it not be just as stupid?
It’s not weird at all. If one race has systematically tried to beat you down throughout history and convince you that your race and culture are inferior, there’s all the reason in the world to reclaim respect for all that your people almost lost, and tell that race to fuck off if they don’t like it, and be proud of it. Gay pride isn’t race based, but it’s definitely a similar thing from a different direction. It sounds like you need to spend significant time sitting and talking with people of cultures that have been through it.
It’s correct to demand equality and apologies for what happened in the past, but beyond it isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?
I would love to talk more about this with people who are directly involved in it, but even then, races/sexualities are not a monolith and that person I spoke to might have a completely different opinion from the rest. Plus I feel like you need to be very intimate with someone to have that kind of talk, so it’s not easy at all. I also comment my opinions on the internet because it’s a simple way of finding people who disagree and might give you a different point of view.
No. I can’t imagine there’s a single person who has ever felt legitimately proud about being discriminated against in a manner you suggest.
Proud of continuing the traditions of one’s ancestors so they aren’t permanently lost to historic racism or diluted in the modern melting pot, via artistic expression, etc, yes.
You still have plenty of time to talk to people and change your viewpoint.
True that. Candice Ownens is the perfect example of a racist POC disowning their entire culture to not be associated with anyone but white Republicans. She's culturally white and it's a choice.
I always read black as "American black people", and there there definitely is a shared culture, of having ancestors that were slaves and not knowing where in Africa they came from because the slavers didn't care
That's because their ancestors experienced a forced diaspora and slavery that was partially designed to destroy their sense of culture and identity. It's a distinct group of people from Africans. Black is just how they choose to refer to themselves.
These sociological definitions aren't always perfect. Strictly speaking, Musk is African, but he isn't who you usually think of as part of that group.
If you belong to a group that has been historically oppressed, being proud of your race/culture is a sign of rebellion.
It’s weird to have pride in race if you experience no adversity because of it. Since white people don’t face the same kind of challenges white pride just feels like “I’m proud of my privilege”, whereas with black pride it’s more “I’m proud of who I am despite the challenges I face because of it”. Same goes for other things like LGBT pride, it’s celebrating who they are even if it cause them a lot of hardship.
Couldn't it be sort of an affiliation with the full history of the White Man, for better or for worse? I don't take pride in my skin color, but it does represent a fascinating time in human history and early human migration. This is purely academic of course, no actual person who says they are "proud of being white" would ever say that or likely even be aware of the history and the science, but it could be.
The problem lies in the definition of "pride". You can be proud of who you are without comparing yourself to others. You can be proud of who you are without thinking less of others, or treat them as inferiors. In fact I'd say it's mandatory but not everyone gets that.
Not sure where I'm going with this, not arguing for or against per se, just exploring the concept because it's complex, interesting, and sadly ever so topical.
It's all semantics either way, just treat people with kindness and respect, and then you can be proud of who you are. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with being "proud" of ones features or traits. For instance, I have very blue eyes that have passed down through a ridiculous number of generations (n.b. not the exact same set), and I'm "proud" of them, in the sense that I'm glad I have them, that they remind me of my heritage and ancestry and family, and I hope that they will pass on to my offspring. I won't cry myself to sleep if they don't, but I think it's "nice".
Is there something wrong with me feeling this way? I don't think so. How could it be? It's nobody's business how I feel about my eyes. I go out of my way to treat people with kindness and respect, and I am proud of that. But also the eye thing.
Maybe that's the problem, perhaps we should just stop nagging and lecturing each other on our identities and preferences all the god damned time. Aren't you all tired of it also?
I can relate, I also have a weird hair quirk my grandma had as well, I like it and I’m glad I have it, but I wouldn’t really say I’m “proud” of it.
Yes, in the end it’s all semantics and there’s nothing really “wrong” with it, I just find it weird, like astrology or ultras, idk.
I think you accidentally hit the nail on the head there. When you and I feel proud of our features, we are proud over the features themselves- not proud of identifying as part of the group of "all blue eyed people" or "all weird hair quirk people".
It's the affiliation with, to a greater or lesser extent, some group, and that group's interests:
As a proud blue-eyed person, I couldn't care less about what all other blue-eyed persons think, and unless there'd be fewer than a thousand left of us I couldn't even conceive of any collective agenda such a group might have had.
As a proud black person, I would be highly motivated to care about and affiliate with all other black persons, because they would share experiences with me, and to a great extent negative or hateful.
As a proud homosexual, I would likewise affiliate with others of my kind or who have had similar experiences.
Even as a proud Ultras member, I can see how you would affiliate like so, even if the reason for it would rest on an artificial division between some arbitrary group- belonging to Ultras is not a physical trait, it's made up, but there at least is some rationale.
As a proud white person? If white people were selectively persecuted, I sure as hell would affiliate with them, but they aren't.
NOW can we fucking can this guy? SpaceX? Tesla? He's already flushed the cancer-formerly-known-as-twitter so we'll leave him that one.
The significance that it's IBM calling it first should not be lost on anyone.
Significance = IBM supplied Nazi Germany with the tech to catalogue the Jews during the Holocaust.
Anyone still on Twitter at this point for whatever their reasons, have to recognize what group they are in.
Sadly my local emergency services still uses them to let the community know what’s going on. Denver PD is still doing a good job updating their page and I wish they would move to Mastodon here sooner rather then later
You could suggest to connect their Xitter to a mastodon server so it automaticaly forward posts (crosspost), could be a good thing for a first move!
Yeah, I've seen people complain about bots on mastodon but generally I'm all for it. Especially for accounts that you don't interact with too much but more-so just want updates from.
Looking at my twitter feed it's immediately obvious what group I'm in; Gays. Gays everywhere.
It's not that easy for a lot of users. People created a network on it and they can't change so easily as theirs jobs depends on these networks.
So, Elon dislikes that white people can't be proud of being white.
Why would a person of any race be proud of their race? Shouldn't people be proud of their own accomplishments, and those of the people they've helped?
I never really understood the rationale here. I support Pride Month for example, but I think the language is kind of wrong.
Shouldn't people be proud, despite traits which have historically been denigrated?
This is a serious question BTW.
When your ancestors have been targetted, racialized, abused and enslaved for centuries and the effects of that are still felt to this day, and when you are still being racialized and abused because of the colour of your skin and your heritage, you feel like you have nothing to be proud of. The world is telling you you don't matter, that 'your kind' deserves it.
THAT'S why POC are so adament about being proud. Because when a racist tells them they're worth nothing, and when the world tells them they're nothing, they need to rely on themselves and their community.
Being proud is resistance. Against all the shit that has been done to POC, and the shit that is still being done today.
White pride is not resistance, other than resistance to the idea of black pride taking over from a centuries old status quo where white people were the only ones who 'mattered'. You're not resisting anything with 'white pride'. You're taking away voices and dignity of POC.
It's no wonder the only people who unironically say 'white pride' are fucking nazis. That should inform anyone about the whole concept of it. Don't weaponize your whiteness.
I was sitting here thinking it's pretty silly to be proud of things you have no control over, even if you appreciate it over other possible variations of a given attribute. Using it as a means of personal or societal deprogramming is valuable, though, so long as it doesn't extend to denigrating people who are 'other', otherwise you end up with the same problem but different people suffering.
That's a great writeup
In my mind, LGBTQ Pride is generally called that because Shame was, at least in contemporary history, a huge driver in suppressing LGBTQ existence and freedoms. If it was called LGBTQ No-More-Shame, it would remain antithetical but might not be as catchy. I'm sure other groups will employ the same argument, but it is difficult to overstate how powerful shame and social stigma specifically suppressed LGBTQ expression, and still attempts to in some ways.
There are other better choices than No-More-Shame.
LGBTQ Honor / Dignity / Glory (on second thought, this one may conjure images of bathroom stalls, so maybe not this one)
Dignity is pretty solid.
To be fair, the right would immediatly counter with "white dignity" or "straight dignity" and accuse everyone holding up LGBTQ+-dignity or black dignity of denigrating white dignity and complain about an atmosphere where "whites aren't allowed to feel the dignity of their race anymore".
Because that's just how they work.
I think there are a few major problems here:
There legitimately are powerful people who are systemically oppressing non-whites/non-straights.
There is a significant amount of people that lack empathy and have never experienced personally this type of systemic oppression, and thus don't believe it's real. This is particularly evident on the right where empathy is in short supply. See also: my abortion is the only moral abortion, the government shouldn't be supporting these freeloaders (but make sure my HUD/food stamps/social security show up on time!), Obamacare needs to be abolished (but don't drop me from my insurance I need my meds!), etc.
Back to point number one, even the blue team has been unfortunately ignorant about the level of systemic oppression and often serves as a validating factor. It's one of the small things that I think have been positive about the social media era, these stories are getting to far more people than they used to. When I was in school in the 2000's, if you asked basically anyone in my predominantly white school (including me, tbh) they probably would have said racism is basically a solved problem and is only a tiny little fraction of the actual experience for POC/LGBTQ++, etc. People with empathy pick up on this faster, but if you say ACAB in a room full of blue team, you're probably still going to get a lot of pushback...
Speaking of ACAB, a big part of the problem is that people just do not fucking get nuance. Most of even the staunchest ACAB supporters don't believe that everyone who is a cop or will become a cop is a bastard/bad person, the point is that the institution of policing in this country is systemically racist, systemically corrupt, and systemically insulated from consequences in a way that is unjust and bad for society. Or, shorter, we have heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment, and know that when you give people this type of power you can expect bad things. Thus, there isn't a way to be a moral cop because the system removes the ability to stay moral, which is also why a lot of those that we would call "good" cops are forced out of the field. Anyway, pretty fucking hard to fit that on a bumper sticker, so we end up with things like ACAB/BLM/Pride, etc.
Extremely well said!
Idk the stereotype that gays are indignant polyamorous debaucherists still persists to this day. Even though the straights are still equally as debaucherous. Put differently, people have a different perception of guys who have a lot of Tinder hookups as opposed to guys that have a lot of Grindr hookups. Gay men are much more likely to be slut-shamed than straight men.
I don't actually think Dignity is a better choice than Pride, I just didn't feel like being argumentative to someone who I think was receptive to my initial argument. I agree with you 100%.
He's completely wrong too. Celebrating American, European, or general Western heritage is very commonplace, to the point that the US even has a holiday for itself. If that isn't enough for someone, then odds are they're just a fucking racist.
Most of the time, there's a country or region you can celebrate the heritage of. The only exceptions are Jewish people and black people, but that's because they had forced diasporas, persecution, and/or slavery. Their ethnic identity to a region was stripped from them.
I mean I'm mostly German but don't really celebrate it. A: I don't feel at all German. B: there's a bit of history surrounding Germans even though none of my ancestors were in the country for any of that. C: I'm already the dominant culture/race where I was born. What would I be celebrating? That I'm the same as everyone else? We could have a big cookout where we celebrate our culture by eating the same food we eat every day, wearing the same clothes we wear every day, etc. Oh wait this is already every get together...
Yeah exactly. I just need to go outside to get the culture of where I'm living.
I am proud of my German heritage, but mainly because,
But would I ever celebrate being of German heritage? Nope. Why should I? The only reason why I love my German heritage boils down to an accident of conception. Heck, I don’t even celebrate being Canadian.
If I was to celebrate anything, it would be for being a member of humanity, and to a wider degree, being alive in a universe that is almost completely hostile to life (we are living on the only known life-compatible planet).
I think everyone should be proud of their race, which is the human race... No matter ones ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. we are all the same race. Yes, I know in this context race means something else. But, my point still stands. If everyone would stop worrying about our little meaningless differences and realize that we are all the same race. We would be much better off. Yes, I know that will never happen.
This has always bugged me. It's strange how labeling someone as "racist" actually works in the racists favour; you're partially validating their point by implying there's a greater biological gap than actually exists.
Bigot works well as a replacement if this bugs you, and it's probably more accurate, people with "racist" views are more likely to be homophobic too.
I mean, idk about other cultures/langages but it does feel weird as fuck to french speakers that English even has a concept of "race" for humans in the first place. In french we only use the word "race" for animals. If you want to refer to someone's ethnicity, well, that's the word you use ("ethnie"). Although iirc the distinction is quite recent (from the enlightenment period or something).
And we also have the word "raciste" which refers to one's belief that there are human races, it doesn't validate that belief.
I'm considering this from the perspective of taxonomy. Race is basically a synonym for "subspecies" which is pretty fucked up.
Yeah iirc that's also why human races aren't really a thing in french.
Although we do use that word for animals' breeds (which are just subspecies iirc) but I guess that's just because it wouldn't really be french if there were no weird exceptions
At least the French got that going for them.
Hurry up and overthrow your government already, everyone is waiting for one of your classic revolutions.
yea yea yea we're waiting till the very last moment so it can look all theatrical and fabulous
Yeah unfortunately our government has been pretty much continuously giving absurd levels of power to the police and they're paving the way for the fascists to win the next elections so it's not looking too good
Biologically we're the same species, not the same race. There's no concept of race in humans
Race was actually invented to justify invading and enslaving people who were different colours
In the cases of actively oppressed people, particularly people that were assigned a race regardless of actual national origin, and then were denigrated for being that race, it's a point of pride to say that "our people" (who you basically forced "us" to become not on the basis of our shared heritage or nationality but purely on the basis of lumping together everyone with the same color skin) survived and thrived, and eventually developed our own culture despite the shitty circumstances.
White people don't fit into this category because nobody forced people to be white and then said they weren't citizens in the country or that they could only live in certain towns, forcing them to band together as one and develop their own white people culture with basically strangers, and nobody robbed them of their history and forced them into brutal chattel slavery for hundreds of years.
Edit: Most white people who care to do so still have an understanding of their lineage, national origin, religion, and/or festivals, and many of those are or were celebrated in their own ways: St Patty's Day, Octoberfest, Christopher Columbus Day (which was basically an Italian pride day originally), Catholic holidays, Jewish holidays, etc.
This opens a whole new can of worms for me.
Can a gay person who has never experienced homophobia rightfully celebrate Pride Month?
Can a black person who was adopted by white parents and has no black cultural influence be proud of being black?
In any case, I understand the sentiment, I'm not saying "I don't understand why black people want to be recognised and celebrate the victories afforded to them by their ancestors".
What I don't understand is the specific vernacular of the word "pride" in these cases. Rosa Parks was a BAMF, but why would I be proud of her? I didn't put the idea in her head, I didn't give her the courage to sit at the back of the bus.
Whether I'm black or white has no bearing on whether I should be proud of anything outside of my own influence; I'm convinced identity politics gets us nowhere.
Those gay people wouldn't have a need to celebrate Pride Month.
Sadly, no gay person on this planet has never experienced homophobia, even in the most LGBTQ+ friendly countries in the world.
When you're born, you aren't just dropped out of the clear blue sky onto a level playing field fully defined by the merits of your own actions. Life isn't a lone survivor video game.
You're born in context: historically, financially, genetically, and otherwise. Some people take pride in their heritage, their lineage, their culture, their traditions, etc etc etc. Just because it isn't your cup of tea and you'd rather only celebrate what you consider to be your own accomplishments (and I say it this way on purpose because without your born context there's no guarantee that your life would've turned out as it did) does not mean everyone views the world the same way.
I think more generically you should ask yourself why it bothers you so much when people celebrate aspects of their identity.
I'd largely have no problem with "white pride" festivals if the concept even made any sense at all (which it doesn't, and which is why it's basically "white power" with a tiny PR tune up), but these "events" are basically just Klan rallies. Versus look at most pride festivals. They're full of people dancing and singing and genuinely celebrating things they have in common with one another (or in some cases, like with gay pride and ally ship, things they simply have an affinity for).
I think you may be viewing my thoughts through an uncharitable lens. I am not bothered at all when anyone celebrates any aspect of their identity.
I'm a white Australian; my ancestors committed atrocities, yet, I do not feel shame for their actions, because I wasn't involved. I can only take shame in how I have acted.
To reiterate, the definition of pride is localised to the individual. It doesn't make sense to be proud of someone else's accomplishments if you haven't helped them.
A parent may feel proud if their child has done well, they have contributed to their success. However, if my college in a different department gets a promotion, I shouldn't.
Now extend this to people you don't know, and it makes no sense at all.
This is human nature at end of day. If it's not being white/black, it's your football team, what country you're from, or on lemmy crap like whether you use Linux or not.
I never understood it myself but people are morons.
Absolutely. Tribalism is toxic.
At least Linux is a choice.
I use Arch BTW.
I get the sentiment, and it's not a black and white (sorry for the pun) answer I think. And yes, celebrating your culture should be good for everyone.
Unfortunately, some people saying "pride" mean "There are great things in the culture and people where I emigrated from" and some people mean "the culture and people where you emigrated from are trash". And "white pride" has historically been used by people meaning the latter.
Pointing out that "white pride" COULD also mean the former doesn't remove the implication it comes with for the latter. If I wanted to express the former, I would pick different words. A person doing otherwise usually either expresses ignorance, callousness to the second implication, or them just trying to get away with saying it meaning the second thing by hiding behind the first.
Just to clarify, I'm not asking about the implication of "white pride", just the semantics of pride in general.
It reminds me of "Black Lives Matter" - of course they do, but too many people heard "only black lives matter", when what they're trying to say is "black lives matter too".
These twits responded with "All Lives Matter", which, of course, is also true, but the implication is the discreditation of the suffering of black people.
I think a lot of these issues, unfortunately, are a failure of the Left. There are so many slogans which are either poorly thought out, or intentionally inflammatory. For example, "defund the police", "all cops are bastards", "math is racist".
We can't expect the Right to read between the lines, it's up to the Left to use better language so we don't give them more ammo.
The right will often purposefully misrepresent whatever the left uses as a slogan. So only so much can be done there. As for the use of racial pride, I find that often those who can claim no accomplishments in themselves will often claim pride by association. They could claim pride in race, but really any group. This could be considered a defense mechanism for their own ego as they are not okay accepting their own short comings.
Deliberate misrepresentation can only be employed if one understands the original intent.
If a malicious person wants to try to convince others "Black Lives Matter" means "only black lives matter", they may have a pretty clear shot (assuming they're trying to convince someone Right of Centre).
If it was rebranded to "Black Lives Matter Too", then they would have a harder time trying to be deceitful.
I'm convinced there are more people in the camp of failing to read between the lines.
In either case, language games are important; playing poorly will lead to catastrophic outcomes. The worst part is this is so easy to correct for - a little bit of imagination will illustrate predictable backlash, or lack thereof.
Fair enough. My conservative family is on the side of purposefully misunderstanding, but I can understand that some may just misunderstand and we should mitigate that when we can.
God damn, I don't envy you.
Having a family which is consciously malicious must make for some very frustrating conversations.
I, on the other hand, have a right-of-centre family who are mostly just too dull to extrapolate, and spend too much time on FB.
At least in my case I can sometimes dispel misconceptions.
Besides my severe trust issues I am fine, life is better now that I have mostly cut them all off.
Because in this case it's talking more about KKK type of "white pride".
People were unironically comparing this man to Tony Starks lol. 🏃🏾♂️
Phony Stark
Ironman was the bad guy for that whole civil war thing. ... oh fuck
Um...hate to say it, but Steve was the bad guy in Civil War, not Tony.
It's all blatant army propaganda either way, does it matter?
Guys guys guys! No fighting!
Anyway, the real villain was Zemo.
The funny bit is that originals Tony Stark was meant to be utter human scum but Hollywood wanted to make him less of a douchebag.
For context, here's the full tweet Elon is endorsing as all these articles are omiting it for some reason
I'm curious. In this context, what are "whites"? Are Jewish people not white now or something? Or does "white" mean something else to him?
They mean normal. Non-ethnic. You know how there are aisles in the grocery store for foods from various cultures? Think of the potato chip aisle. Default human, with basic features and simple ideologies. Christian, western, self-determining, literate but not erudite, proud and apathetic, powerful and resigned, and thoroughly egocentric.
That's how they see the world. It's a special level of narcissism borne from generational privilege. When they talk about "whites," that's what they mean, because they don't have any sort of self awareness or concern for how they are perceived by others.
I'm pretty sure by white he means white, non-jewish europeans which also includes white americans since they're from europe aswell but wether jews are considered white depends on who you ask. I believe that most jews don't think of themselves as that either, though some do. I'm guessing it has something to do with being an oppressed minority. Then again white supermacists for example don't consider them white either because they're not "pure" or something.
I don't think there's any conclusive answer to this. In my opinion focusing on skin color is a stupid question to begin with. Asians aren't generally considered white either though they seem pretty white to me. Friend's wife is black but her skin is barely darker than mine. Go figure.
You would have to measure your head to convince Elon that you're white enough.
Draws a lot of attention to the fact that "white" is a construct that is tied up intimately in supremacy narratives. Irish and Italian people were at times not considered "white" because they were discriminated against as immigrant populations. To the supremacist, whiteness defines an "us" so whether Jewish people are considered "white" is really depends on the level of anti semitic sentiments present.
It's part of why "White Pride" is a really bad idea. Part of the experience of being white is tied up in the legacy of exclusion based on class or othering and how genocides, murders and exploitation based on the ideas of white supremacy shaped the world through empire and those systems haven't exactly been dismantled. Until whiteness is basically "fixed" so that this is a factor of the distant past the correct way to interact with one's own whiteness is more to reflect on the complexities of the history and modern application of it and realize that while being light skinned isn't something to be ashamed of throwing a party about it is still in poor taste.
Jewish people have never been "white" to antisemites. (Real antisemites, I mean, as opposed to people who have the gall to say Palestinians are human.)
"are Jewish people white" is one of those questions where the answer seems to ebb and flow with the tides.
Huh, my dogs are going crazy. Weird.
Thanks for transcribing the tweet so that others don't have to give it excessive clicks. This might be his new worst mask off moment.
Unfortunately, a bunch of people will probably act shocked while continuing to use the platform that he owns 80% of rather than move to alternatives.
I appreciate you providing the actual tweet... but I have no idea how to translate it. The double/triple negative really throws me for a loop and I don't even know how to read this. I assume there's more that has Elon talking white pride somewhere else? Am I blind or naive in not seeing the problem in the post?
Edit: Oh, I see, the post BEFORE that one was saying asking people to "just come out and say 'Hilter was right'" if that's what they believed and this was a response by someone. Ouch.
About fucking time, IBM.
Given what I have seen from working with a company that worked with them chances are the person who handles the ads is about 80 years old and hasn't actually clocked in the past decade.
"There is no bombing at the airport"
I try to help
Elon is slowly but surely tearing down everything he has created.
Bought.
Always a good distinction. Ever see presentations from the actual founders of Tesla? They are impressive.
What has he created? He bought himself into Twitter and Tesla... and the work is essentially done entirely by other people. i.e his employees
Yep. And his pet projects that he personally drives always crash and burn. He's the one that pushed the autopilot feature hard despite his engineers publicly objecting.
One of the best PR campaigns in modern history. Just five years ago people on both sides of the political spectrum were seeing this guy as one of the smartest humans alive, who would actually put man on another planet.
Then he got rid of the PR team and started doing his own PR, and it went as well as it always does when Elon has direct control.
That last part can and probably will happen despite his public perception
Fixed that for you
Every single accomplishment he has involves buying a company that was already doing it, establishing himself as a "founder", and then taking all the credit.
He could have gotten away with it too. I never drank the Kool aid with that guy. I know the charismatic sales tech evangelical type too well. I deal with them daily at work. When they stay in their lane they are fine, they bring in the business.
He's tearing down everything that other people created, you mean?
I was about to buy a white Tesla but now I'm not so sure about the Tesla at all, but especially that combination.
All he had to do was shut up. He could've thought all this stuff, maybe done some of it, and still been hailed as a hero. But the more he opens his mouth, the harder he makes it for anyone to overlook who he really is.
The lack of self-reflection going on here is so painful to watch.
Or he’s unlocking the only way to sell EVs to American conservatives.
Other people always did the actual work - he's just less effectively handled now, so his personal incompetence is harder to hide.
Except that so far he hasn't faced any real repercussions. He keeps selling cars and internet and getting contracts from NASA. A bunch of banks may have to write off their twitter investments but, much like trump for several decades, it will not significantly impact his ability to get new credit.
The guy that still has no idea why his kids hate him, at it again.
Why were they even adversing on Ten?
You mean 10-Chan?
...do you mean xitter?..
I'm honestly not going to do business with anyone who still maintains a presence on that platform much less advertise on it. Cheers to IBM for stepping up.
Tell me you're South African without you know.
That scene at the South African embassy in one of the lethal weapons movies. Oh man, fiction is so crazy. Right?
Did you know that South Africa helped Israel develop their nuclear armaments program?
I find an odd sort of satisfying humour that we know exactly where IBM draws the line, and it's right there.
It hasn't always been exactly there though....
All the more reason to have a hard line there now, I suppose.
Yep, now look up the dark past of basically any large corporation that existed at that time... wild stuff.
it makes me wonder why, when we see WWII movies or documentaries, why they are doing everything analog? Typewriters, handwritten letters, when we know they had IBM computers, which were sold to the Nazis including during the war, in direct contravention of sanctions. Could it be they want to hide that unsavory bit of history
Early computers were weighty, unreliable, and insecure. We've come a long way with network management, parity checking, digital encryption, smaller machines, and input devices that don't require punch cards. Even if we thought they could have adopted widespread use of computers in the 1940s, it would be a long time until people adapted to the sudden change.
You couldn't even purchase a modem until 1958. ARPANET was the first wide area network actually put to use in 1970 connecting computers on opposite coasts of the United States after four years of development, and it largely wasn't improved upon until ARCNET in 1986.
The Nazis literally used custom made IBM punch cards to keep records of their undesirables. I know society at large was mostly unaware of computers, but did they did play a role in WWII. We see cipher devices like Enigma in historical documentaries and fiction, but we don't see the computers that calculated bomb and rocket trajectories, and least of all the Nazi's database which seems quite well buried in footnotes, though it was critical in the holocaust.
I still stand by the answer to your likely rhetorical question is that it wasn't really hidden that much it simply was utilized so little that the exact sites and personnel that used computers of the time are incredibly few in number, so while easy to document and possibly quite impactful: it also wasn't a very big part of the era as a whole.
Doesn't have to be a line, might just be the last straw
Twitter/X is going to end up selling boner pills and conspiracy theories. Way to burn through 44 billion dollars, Elmo.
He dismantled a liberal and progressive worldwide platform, that was 44 billion well spent to him and his financial backers. Everything else is just his personal fun, kinda like how you drive a scrap car through the fields one last time to see how long it runs without oil.
I'm not seeing where the "return on investment" comes in. I just see a lot of wasted money.
The return in investment is the rise of fascism. Capitalists are scared of the people and are trying to control the narrative now.
If we take from the list of investors e.g. the Saudis - one revolution like the Arab Spring not happening is worth alone the entire 44 billion, but of course their share was smaller than that,
Is there a list somewhere of the companies advertizing on this thing? Could be useful to ask them what they think about that!
Hey guys I think this Elon Musk guy might be not so great...
A white south african guy is racist? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
Well, not that shocked.
It's surely only a matter of time before he becomes a climate change denier, right? He's gone all in every other right wing weirdo ideology.
How unsettling would it be if the CEO of SpaceX became a flat earther?
I would then be convinced that we are in a timeline where The Onion controls the universe
What do you think SpaceX, mars colonization and Cybertruck are about? His bizarre twist on climate is to sell to rich prepper folks the post-apocalyptic fantasy that they will get something to drive while they wait for their ferry to the mars colony where, one would assume, they would reign over the pleb workers. More libertarian than fully alt-right or traditional conservatism.
No he's pretty on board with climate change. That's why joined Tesla as a funder.
So will I still get downvoted into oblivion for calling him the white supremacist that he has always been?
Probably.
You're wrong!!!...about getting downvoted.
Nah. Saying bad shit about Elon is guaranteed upvotes around here. Welcome brother
The company that sold automation to Hitler: "This guy is a step too far"
The art of debate and discussion today is watered down to, "...but but that other thing is evil too!"
Can't talk about Uyghurs genocide because European settlers killed natives 500 years ago. IBM and Musk can both be bad. Same as time changes things and people.
Stop distracting from Musk's wrongdoings. What happened 90 years ago was 90 years ago. We can't change that. What we can do is influence change today. Thanks to IBM for not allowing their money to fuel Musk's machines.
I uhhh think it was just a joke...
I did not know that about IBM's history... 😬
Probably shouldn't look up any car companies then...
I'm familiar with those bits of history already, but wasn't aware of IBM. My dad worked at IBM for 30+ years, so they've always been relevant to my family (they have a dogshit corporate culture, not that that's surprising)
I'm no apologist but literally the country of Germany let that dude do all that shit but we've kinda let the whole country off the hook for that at this point, seeing how it was a really long time ago and the people involved aren't in charge anymore.
Have you seen their offices from the 1970s? It's like wall to wall Eames chairs. IBM deserves another chance.
No, look, you're not wrong. I'm not saying modern IBM is responsible for the holocaust or something like that. But:
I think you'll find none of the same executives at IBM in 2023 that were alive in the 30s/40s.
So was this guy semi normal in the head at some point?
I am really wondering if he has been deteriorating over the last years.
Consensus from those with closer experience is that he's always been kind of an asshole, just not a crazy asshole. Also, the whole "Elon's a Tony Stark genius" was literally a marketing campaign and he used to have a really good PR person. He fired that person some years back (want to say around '17-'18?) got on twitter and let that fully rot his brain.
I think this is a fairly predictable outcome when you fire anyone who contradicts you and seem to spend your whole day hotboxing your own farts with a legion of minions in tow who will stop at nothing to tell you what a great experience that is.
Ketamine is a hellva drug!
I don't know for sure... I kinda liked him several years ago, but it was before all the media exposure, so he may have been this crazy his whole life
Probably not but appeared to be before developing a Twitter addiction and the Sub Incident.
At this point, if anybody asks, I never had a Twitter account. It's way too embarrassing to admit otherwise.
No normal public figure/organization would ever to be associated with this disgusting behavior, but this is the inevitable results engagement centric personalized algorithm, as conflicts create the highest amount of user engagement for the platform.
Most public organizations/figures should really think about running federated social media accounts on their own server, because having control over the server is the only way to 100% ensure your freedom of association online.
I don’t think it’s embarrassing to have had a Twitter account in the past. It’s not like anyone could have known Elon was gonna buy it
And Twitter wasn't all bad. People used it to spark, spread and fuel several sovial and political changes. It was the modern townsquare.
It's too bad it only amplifies nazis and fascists now, but there was a time when regular people had a voice there.
And this is why all news of Elon isn't necessarily good news nor free advertising for him. We don't have to trip over ourselves when he breathes, but when he's a piece of shit? Spread it as much as possible.
They just wait until they have everyone kissing their asses and fuck you money, then they let you see who they really are.
Elno fanboys will be like:
He just does that so users can enjoy less ads on X! 5D chess again, he is so smart UwU
"5d chess... First principles" **lick lick jerk jerk
-Lex Fridman in his last podcast
This app once sparked social changes and political revolutions. People used it to hold the guilty people accountable.
Then Elon bought it with funding from Saudia Arabia and a few others.
Then he made all the cartoonishly wrong changes. Now the app is dying.
It doesn't feel like incompetence to me. It feels like the app was murdered by the rich and the powerful for whom 44B isn't that big of a deal.
Can we please stop with the conspiracy theories and/or acting like Musk is smarter than he actually is. The fact that Musk tried to get out of buying Twitter is proof that there was no grand plan to take down Twitter. If you have a plan to buy Twitter and tear it down you don't go to such lengths to weasel yourself out of buying Twitter. And if you have a plan to take down Twitter you also must have a reason to take it down. I can't come up with a reason beyond pettiness and I somehow doubt anyone would spent billions out of pettiness. Even Musk in his pettiness to buy Twitter tried to get out if it.
The one other reason I could think of is trying to silence specific people, but then it makes no sense to tear down Twitter. What does tearing it down accomplish? The people you want to silence will move to a different platform and the other people who are the audience to those specific people are also driven to other platforms. You don't spend billions to annoy people into using a different platform. You spend billions to drive away the people you don't like and keep the audience, then it won't matter if those undesired people speak up because there's nobody to listen to them. If the goal is to silence some people then tearing down Twitter accomplishes nothing.
The more realistic explanation is that Musk isn't smart and doesn't know how to run Twitter.
Isn't he South African?
Maybe he as some assets the South African government can nationalize.
He needs to have Mypillow come and advertise his last remaining dollars.
Musk is good friends with Joe Rogan btw
To be fair, this is true. Elongated Muskrat is making it very clear what their efforts are.
The nuts and bolts are loose on this one boys.
At this rate xitter might as well die a slow death.
This is the slow death.
It's written xitter but the x is spoken like sh
90 years ago and IBM would have twittered harder
It’s so appropriate that this attempt by Musk to repeat history is just a low-effort reboot.
Character arc?
Maybe they pulled advertisement but then put in a bid for a human tracking system. They can sell it for pretty cheap because they've already got a working system.
At some point race should fade away as some other trait like eye color or attached/detached ear lobes.
Having said that: if everyone who has attached lobes is being blamed for the world problems then I think you may get push back.
Crash and burn, baby.
Tragic, but unsurprising.
🎶It’s historically ironic!🎶
bUsInEsS GeNiUs
Well, shit.... our expectations were low, but god damn.
How the times have changed...
Cheering for a total explosion on the launchpad this Saturday
I'm not. A lot of work of actually smart and skilled people went to it. It may be the private sector, but I still cheer for it as the achievement of humanity.
Yeah, human progress! It's not a rocket program unless there's a nazi involved. Otherwise its just a sparkling missile.
It's too bad that it doesn't belong to humanity.
Elon continues to get worse by the month.