Intel is laying off over 15,000 employees and will stop ‘non-essential work’
theverge.com
So they got all that money from Uncle Sam's CHIPS Act only to lay off 10,000 employees and make themselves "lean". Govt funded unemployment.
So they got all that money from Uncle Sam's CHIPS Act only to lay off 10,000 employees and make themselves "lean". Govt funded unemployment.
Prepping for all those spicy class action lawsuits coming their way.
You’re probably right, the generation 13&14 will be riddled with lawsuits.
I'm rather OOTL with intel. Mind giving me a short summary? What'd they do this time?
Not sure a short summary will cut it.
They had no competition for a long period and ended up with an accountant CEO that caused their R&D to stagnate massively. They had a ton of struggling and failing to deliver all in most areas, and they wombled about releasing CPU generations with ~4% performance uplifts, probably saving a few bucks in the process.
AMD turned back up again with Ryzen and Epyc models that were pretty good and and an impressive pace of improvement ( like ~14% generational uplifts ) that caused them such a fright that they figured out they had to ditch the accountant.
Pat Gelsinger was asked to step up as CEO and fix that mess. They axed some obvious defective folks in their structure and rushed about to release 12th generation products with decent gains by cranking the power levels of the CPUs to absurd levels, this was risky and it kind of looks like they are being bit with it now.
Server CPU sales are way down because they are just plain uncompetitive. They have missed out on the chunk of money they could have got from the AI bubble because they never had a good GPU architecture they could leverage over to use. They have been shutting down unprofitable and troublesome divisions like the Optane storage and NUC divisions to try and save money, but they are in a bad way.
The class actions mentioned elsewhere in the thread are probably coming because the rush to make incremental improvements to 13th generation and 14th generation CPU's resulted in issues with power levels and other problems that seem to be causing those CPU's to crash and sometimes fail altogether.
What is it with accountants being chosen as CEO? Like if you were a competent accountant, you should be CFO, and the CEO is someone who knows what the fuck the company sells and how it profits, which I can guarantee you has never been a competent accountant.
It's because the big investors only give a fuck about number go up. Accountants show number go up. All current large investors also seem to have a complete inability to look more than 1-2 quarters in advance, at most. So if number go down, instead must force change to make number go up, but again only 1-2 quarters to make it happen. If number stay down, abandon and go elsewhere.
Institutional investors, the ones with billions in assets controlled, and the real power in this world, don't give a shit if the company is actually successful, or about sustainability, or anything other than continuous profits at any expense. And that's how they perceive the accountants.
Number not going up now.
Number not go up?
Abandon ship to the next company where accountant promises number go up.
It’s a little like the sociopath hospital boards, having more billing staff than doctors and nurses. Making a massive mistake for quick profit and leaving it for the next guy to cleanup lawsuits. A little like robocall centers, okay with fleecing the poor as long as they only have to pay roughly 20% in damages, close shop and create a new call center all over again and rinse and repeat.
I always like this answer by Steve Jobs on the topic (here it's xerox, but this also fits Intel pretty well).
This video is perfectly applicable, the rot that sets in in a large company when you have no competition to counteract it is exactly what has happened here.
Don't forget the potential oxidation issues.
There's probably a huge story behind why Intel replaced their fab chief just days after it was revealed that he okayed sending out oxidized chips.
Yeah /u/deadbeef@lemmy.nz kind of understated the problem. They were seeing insane failure rates in data centers like 50%. At this point, any 13th or 14th gen CPU that has experienced any crash or instability should be considered faulty unless you know the cause of the crash is from something else. This isn't just me saying this, mainstream outlets like Gamers Nexus are saying it.
If you're a consumer and have one of those CPUs a replacement is probably in your future. And I wonder if Intel even has stock to replace that many at once....
I can't think of anything like this ever happening on this scale before in computing history.
Lest we forget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug
A case study for the generations
A bug or whatever in their 13'th and 14'th gen CPU's makes them slowly but permanently degrade and cause crashes. Intel have not been handling the issue as you would hope since the discovery. Denying, downplaying, refusing a recall, refusing extended warranties, the lot. Now the lawsuits are cooking.
Ooo spicy... I'll have to keep an eye on that.
Thanks!
Gamersnexus does a pretty good job
IIRC they sold and shipped 2 generations of CPUs that were essentially defective and unrepairable.
They sold fairy high end processors. They took like 3 months to fix the issue. Processors that were damaged will remain damaged. I think Intel will replace them though.
This saga has moved fast so I don’t blame you, just an FYI Intel has issued a statement saying the microcode update “will” fix all affected CPUs (it won’t, because the damage is physical) and will not be issuing a recall.
We are witnessing one of the more obvious end-game states of capitalism. Intel continues to state they don’t give a single shit about this issue, and will not do anything about it.
The corporate nihilism will continue until the collapse. More and more companies will act like this because why does anything matter when we can profit more today?
What’s the alternative to Intel for a home PC? After getting caught up on this, I won’t be ever buying one again.
AMD. Maybe Qualcomm in the near future. AMD Ryzen chips are pretty damn good.
Oh man I would love a Snapdragon 8 Gen3 USFF or STB.
I want an arm laptop for work. I almost always use web apps or SSH or RDP. I don't need or want a lot of power in my laptop, but fanless and big battery life sounds great.
You essentially just described a Chromebook...
I get it. I want a Chromebook too. Just not one that has anything to do with Google.
Gimme a "Chromebook" that runs an atomic Linux distro out of the box.
Non-standard keyboard layouts. Custom kernels. Nah, I tried to rock a Chromebook but it sucks. What I really want is for arm or riscV to grow the fuck up and make an open pc platform. x86 wasn't meant to be open from the beginning, but market forces and other reasons forced it open. We need the same thing for other architectures.
Good to know. Probably have another four years on my PC before it heads out to pasture.
AMD
Two generations of bad cpu's and their solution is get rid of the workers so they can keep their bonuses.
MBA brain rot
Gotta keep that angle at 45° forever and ever.
Two words, bean counters.
I wish them brain drain for being such greedy. Let their best people leave to better pastures.
Part of the lackluster CPU problem is that Intel was pissing away their money on other adventures. CPUs were "in the bag", so they kept spending money on other stuff to try to "create new markets". Any casual observer knew their fundamental problem was simple: they got screwed on fabrication tech. Then they got screwed again as a lot of heavy lifting went to the 'GPU' half of the world and they were the only ones with zero high performance GPU product/credibility. But they instead went very different directions with their investments...
For example they did a lot to try to make Optane DIMMs happen, up to and including funding a bunch of evangelism to tell people they'll need to rewrite their software to use entirely new methods of accessing data to make Optane DIMMs actually do any better than NAND+RAM. They had a problem where if it were treated like a disk, it was a little faster, but not really, and if it were used like RAM it was WAY slower, so they had this vision of a whole new third set of data access APIs... The instant they realized they needed the entire software industry to fundamentally change data access from how they've been doing it for decades for a product to work should have been the signal to kill it off, but they persisted.
See also adventures in weird PCIe interconnects no one asked for (notably they liked to show a single NVME drive being moved between servers, which costed way more than just giving each server another NVME and moving data over a traditional fabric). Embedding FPGA into CPUs when they didn't have the thermal budget to do so and no advantages over a discrete FPGA. Just a whole bunch of random ass hardware and software projects with no connection to business results, regardless of how good or bad they were. Intel is bad for "build it, and they will come".
You know they pocket those subsidies when this happens.
Right to the pockets of the least useful in the company - the executives.
And here's where I say - what does an executive actually do? And someone will inevitably say something asinine about "risk" and "game changing decisions" and "meeting with investors."
It’s always the boot lickers saying they. CEO used to be THE guy in charge. It used to be someone who knew the company and worked their way up. McDonnell Douglas/Boeing used to have engineers in charge. Same with GE. Then Jack Welch came along and destroyed that entire ideology.
He was the one that opened the door to late stage capitalism, at least in the USA. It’s hilarious how these companies piece meal themselves off acting like they did something for short term gain. Meanwhile, the Japanese, Chinese, and European companies are happy to buy all this knowledge as they are still playing the long game rather than the MBA clown show.
The risk bit is self-evidently bullshit. Executives are the last to suffer when things go wrong. They can tank the whole company through greed and incompetence, and still collect their salaries of millions plus even bigger bonuses, before walking into a similar position somewhere else. It's the employees that shoulder the risk.
I'd rather they try and put a random janitor in the CEO seat for a year and see what happens.
Couldn't be any worse than the current shit stain.
According to conservatives, they trickle all over the rest of us. Isn't that nice of them?
I'm still waiting - mouth wide open, head and hands towards heaven (where it comes from), for the trickle of capitalism to run down my face and enter my mouth.
I just see them as a figure head for the people really in charge. We are now focused on dumb ass CEO decisions or announcements instead of the board voting to ship jobs overseas or something else terrible.
If you watch these companies they all want to be tech giants when they have no reason to do so. They hire tech execs from the giants thinking they'll make some great business hybrid withithe help of the tech execs,but you know what? Sometimes a brick is just a brick.
Two things happen, the tech execs lead them on a wild goose chase since they have no idea how to function in a different industry and people get fired, or the CEO is scared and ignores the suggestions to follow the same thing every other company does and people get fired
I'll have you know they deserve that money for doing a job no one else wants! Talking to other executives! /s
That’s…wait. That’s actually a decent point. Imagine being around the scummiest, fakest people in the world 24/7. I couldn’t deal with it.
For a couple hundred million a year i think i could deal with it. For like, one year, and then retire.
They only made 50 billion dollars of profit last year. Won't anybody think of the shareholders
Idk about other subsidies but they're probably not getting any CHIPS Act funds with this sort of behavior.
So those jobs they're cutting start with everyone with "Chief" in their title, right?
Of course not. The Chiefs earn every penny by making the difficult decisions to keep stock prices up. /s
What’s crazy to me is that they are laying off more employees than the total number of full time employees I’ve worked at for most companies.
They are laying off 12% of their work force.
That's what happens when companies are too fucking big, and intel was essentially a monopoly for a while.
I have interned at AT&T while at University, laying off a 1000 people would be less than 1 % for them.
After seeing this article I went down a rabbit hole and IBM isn’t even in the top 10 US of most employees. Here’s some of the popular ones from the top 30.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_States%E2%80%93based_employers_globally
...i'm surprised to see DHL rank so highly in that list: what's their domestic market focus, business-to-business freight logistics?..i seldom see DHL packages and when i do they're almost exclusively of international origin...
That was also my thought as well. I only use DHL with some international orders, so I questioned their placement on that list.
... the 12 percent that actually does something too...
So what I'm getting here is that the CEO and or the board decided to invest in something that is losing a ton of money and so now 15% or more of the people who have been working diligently to actually make the company money are going to pay for it by losing their job.
Intel has an enormous technical debt that they're finally struggling to pay back after they hit a brick wall with their 7nm Titanium chipset.
It isn't that this is wasteful spending so much as it is big upfront costs for future productive development.
That said, the fact that this work has to be government subsidized in order to be done raises the question of why this business is private at all.
I'm not sure I want the gov and huge amounts of my tax dollars going to operate federal gov chip fab plants. On the other hand I get your point that it is so heavily subsidized it is practically a de facto situation anyway.
That is ultimately what the subsidies amount to.
I think the question isn't "Do I want my tax dollars going to X?" (because they're going there whether you want it to or not - semiconductors are an essential industry in a modern post-industrial nation). The question is how you want the business to operate. As a for-profit venture focused on returning the maximum profit to shareholders over the smallest time frame? Or as a public utility, focused on generating a sufficient quota of useful products for a fixed unit cost?
Part of the problem with the Western/Americanized economic system is that the second kind of enterprise is increasingly difficult to find. And where it does exist (the USPS, the state university system, the federal reserve, the SEC/FAA/EPA) there's been so much privatization and regulatory capture that these institutions appear incapable of fulfilling their mandates.
But constantly diverting responsibility for fixing the problem by saying "I don't want my tax dollars involved in this failed thing" doesn't get us any closer to a solution. At some point, the public (and by extension the state bureaucracy) has to engage with our corrupt and failing economic cornerstones. Otherwise, we just become beholden to the nations we import from.
"Let Saudi-ARAMCO handle it" isn't a solution I find particularly appetizing, either.
Doesn't the US have semiconductor chip sanctions in place on China, specifically because it's a national security concern? If semiconductors are that big of a deal that we need to sanction China over them... maybe they should be nationalized.
Taiwanese Semiconductor is the global industry leader, and half of their output is sold to China. Korea and Japan are also major exporters. The Chinese manufacturers don't care about losing access to Intel chips, when they're a generation behind the curve anyway.
Wall Street would flip its lid if the US tried to nationalize Intel.
I think it's even more absurd than that. The CEO/board decided to make a long-term investment which wasn't going to pay off for several years. To what should be the surprise of no one, that meant short term losses.
Framing an investment in a massive amount of new infrastructure as a loss because it didn't immediately start operating in the black is beyond unreasonable, but that's the demand when all that matters is quarterly gains and year-over-year growth.
That's definitely a huge issue but they're going to have a hell of a time on the overcooked processors on the market right now. They've sold a hell of a lot of defective product over the past couple of years. Consumers and third parties are going to come after them for refunds. Consumer confidence is way down. They're going to have a hell of a time trying to sell 15th gen to people. Everyone I know who knows what in the hell is going on is going to AMD.
I've been in the industry since back when AMD actually was making the processors for Intel. And people have been saying this exact thing every time there's a fluctuation in the processor market. Yet Intel still basically owns the market anyway.
The failure in Intel isn't their processors, it's their management.
I mean you can't blame the rocks, of course it's the management :)
You have a hell of a love for that phrase!
That's exactly what happened, and that's how layoffs always work.
The losses of the horrible decisions of the board/owners/management/etc are paid for by the blood of the workers. It's so wonderful and very fair.
Several tech companies have really stopped giving a shit lately. Intuit laid off a ton of people and referred to them as "not meeting expectations", and Intel's laid-off folks are now all apparently working on non-essential stuff.
Imagine losing your job and being told second-hand after you'd been shown the door that you were shit.
Fuck these companies.
I do a moderate amount of work with Intel, and I'd say the problem is not that the people are "shit", it's that their bureaucracy is so messed up. You have the people that actually engaged with their customers (support and sales), who marketing largely ignores, and marketing makes up stuff that isn't in sync with the field guys, but that's hardly a problem because the development executives then go off on their own "cool" ideas, without any buy in or anything from support, sales, or marketing. This has real impact, but then you have some middle managers spooling up side projects with like a dozen dedicated people each, adding another indirection of effort totally disconnected from any business capability.
So end result is you have an admittedly qualified team toiling away on a project that there's just no way a potential customer will even hear about, working on problems that someone "imagined" that a customer never had, or is trivially solved in the industry already, but they don't have the experience to know that. Even when the work is good and people might want it, it's still doomed to obscurity because there's such a disconnect between the engineers and any actual communication with potential customers.
Yes, I agree, and I think it's a reflection of society's values over the past 50 years.
We are living in a world with more of a "make money and fuck all else" mindset. Children of wealthy elites are living very privileged childhoods, and as a result, have less empathy and more contempt for real people. We are now seeing the effects of living in a society where the needle of social values is pointed 100% on the side of capitalism and 0% on the side of moral values. And how that has affected our perspectives of a society at large: a general lack of caring, a lack of empathy, a lack of conscientiousness from the top, tossing normal, real people aside like rubbish in a bin.
We're seeing what happens when you let a generation of incredibly entitled children grow up to take the reins of society. We all know how it ends....
(And for what it's worth, I think a long, extended Great Depression-style event is much more likely than a violent conflict, especially given how docile citizens of the west have proven themselves to be over the past several decades.)
Stagnation, baby.
they fired the guy that single handedly managed meshcommander https://github.com/Ylianst/MeshCommander
it was a tool to remotely control intel vpro machines, intel's own tool is not as good as what the old ex-employee did in his free time
That’s not surprising if you know how software products nowadays are planned and built in bigger companies.
It’s harder to do it with 50 people than with 5.
I wonder how many of the over 1000 VPs will get canned. You read that right. I worked there at the beginning of my career. I know a lot of people who are now VPs. Only one of them was actually any good. One guy couldn't even manage his own staff meetings when he was a first line manager. Nice guy, not dumb or anything, but not brilliant, and a terrible organizer.
Ah yes, the ol' "promoted to the level of their incompetence". SOP. Or SNAFU, take your pick.
I hope this never happens to me but based on the Peter Principle I won't know when it happens.
Oh shit maybe it's already happened...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
I used to work for Comcast and it was astonishing how many vice presidents there were. It might be the most meaningless corporate title ever. Even if they had real work to do they never had time to do it - VPs there turned over faster than beignets at Cafe du Monde.
Publicly traded companies are a curse on humanity.
All the idiot Americans cheering about scapegoating single mothers as welfare queens since the 80s, never an utterance by anyone with power of all the DO NOTHING private investors that drop their chips from their last trip to the exploitation casino and demand all the profit for no labor whatsoever.
"Fuck you, I'm an owner, pay me."
Prior to the Jack Welch Ronald Reagan betrayal, the model was correcly "customers first, employees second, investors third."
Everything falls apart when you give every spare penny to the people who A) dont DO anything to make the money they demand and B) demand the companies they own sabotage their missions and futures to goose net profit for the current quarter so they can profit and walk away having severely damaged those company's ability to do what they existed for, only to demand it of other companies.
maybe the root-cause is less the publicly-traded part but rather the total lack of any consequences?
but yes i totally agree, any company publicly traded will get a payed-for-CEO after a while and latest at that point is where no problems are resolved any more, but instead are IMHO always created on purpose.
Problem with publicly traded is that there is no personal risk past the price you bought the stocks for. You paid $ 1,000 for some stocks of "evil chemical corp"? Now your financial interest, and thats the only measureable one, would want them to pollute for a damage of $ 10,000 respective to the stock value if that increases your stock price to $ 2,000, as long as the risk of them having to pay for cleaning it up is smaller than 50%. Problem is the same holds true for a damage of $ 100,000 relative to your stock. Or any arbitrarily large amount. Your share in the damage caused could be in the billions, but worst thing the company goes bankrupt and you loose your stocks buying price.
The only alternative would be holding shareholders responsible with their own money, if a company is forced to pay up for damages they caused, going past its bankruptcy.
like i said:
but you used much more words ;-)
"publicly traded" does not imply that consequences would be impossible.
i see the opposite is true.
one could make that "public trade" also "very" public as in ownerships could only be changed together with a public note of who that new owner of that share is in person and only like not allow ownership changes more than twice a week per person, making investment more profitable than parasitic high performance trade. also the current lack of consequences could be improved by making the shareholders personally responsible for everything that the company does, including going to jail when the ceo left the country to not go there.
that could include making those responsible who owned that company at the time of its crime, making trust in the company way more important than that they can cause damage to society in macroscope just to profit in microscopical bits.
this way the shareholders would have a at least one trigger to actually want to look into who that bullshittalker is they want to let into such a position of "their property"
society should take care who they let do things with "their property" too.
Not sure why Biden didn't put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?
The US and Europe has become acutely aware that too much semi-conductor manufacturing has been outsourced to China and other Asian nations and they're trying to build some back domestically. So that's the geopolitical reason for it.
Maybe the US should consider Intel's massive reduction in staff and faulty chips as a national security threat and nationalize them.
That's the justification. Don't you know what kind of people gets into high governmental positions?
Making some friends rich was the reason.
Still, this sucks huge donkey balls, a lot of very smart and very knowledgeable people, maybe more valuable than a 100 (ok, maybe 10, or maybe 5, it's a rhetorical device) copies of me, work in such inefficient structures, while there could have been a dozen TSMCs over the world with their competencies.
I have come to agree that nations have interests, but their governmental structures generally work against those. There's a wheel to be invented there.
I'm not sure what this has to do "Not sure why Biden didn't put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?". Wait, I do. This is question exactly why Biden didn't put condition of bringing production back.
- Russian troll, according to some.
Lol that's $6,666,667 per job. I could create a job with that much money: counting all my fucking money.
Actually, yeah, one can pick 3k people and just pay them 4k$ per month indefinitely till they die and something will remain.
These corps are slimy Fucks. It probably did create 3k jobs. Low paying, temporary jobs. These layoffs are probably other jobs
The U.S. should sue the shit out of them.
It seems you are confusing US for EU
The string is that they use it for the creation of a domestic chip plant, not salaries for existing employees.
It's a good thing we gave them BILLIONS of Taxpayer Dollars! Otherwise they would have Laid Off Employees! Anyways we don't have enough money in the Budget to Feed Starving American Children!
There’s a dude in wallstreetbets who dumped a $700k inheritance into Intel stocks. lol
Oh my god...
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1ehjuzj/i_bought_700k_worth_of_intel_stock_today/
Meh, he bought a significant dip, even if it goes lower in the coming months, in a few years he will be way up. It's not like Intel will go away, they are in a duopoly market.
Intel has been down from around 50 YTD to 30 likely in a few years it will be back to 50 and he will close to double his money
Though he could have probably just put the 700K into S&P 500 and have his retirement taken care of, since he is in his 20s
Yeah but still... could've at least waited a day
Holy F, what an idiot nepo baby. Maybe daddy who pays for college works as a VP at intel
Dude, what the heck is wrong with people. Wealth is wasted on the stupid.
its mainly that our modern culture worships money and things whoever has more of it is inherently better.
So rich people make bad decisions because they think that being rich means they are always right, and that their ideas are special and magical and come from a mystical realm of refined thought only people with stacks of cash possess.
And when they fail, they blame everything except their greed focused short sightedness.
What's the problem? They put the money back into circulation. That's a good thing, no?
The wealthy hoard their gold. They don't circulate it.
The problem is that it is just poor money management. He could've been set for life. Put that into an index or S&P500 and get 10% every year. That's 70k and he wouldn't even have to work. If you took that 70k and invested back into the fund, you can double your money in about 7 years, assuming 10% returns.
Yeah I agree. That's what I would've done. You saying that wealth is wasted just made it sound like the money dissapeared somehow. He wasted his chance on financial independence, sure, but that's not away from the rest of us.
Layoffs will make the stock go up. It's bizarre.
My experiences working for huge corporations have made it clear what an enormous percentage of corporate workers spend all their time on useless busy work, so in theory layoffs can make a corporation more profitable. The problem is that it's rarely the useless ass-kissers who get laid off.
If the bureaucracy could easily identify the dead weight projects it wouldn't need the layoffs but that also means it can't make good choices when doing layoffs.
It's like chemotherapy.
Yeah, my team has gotten cut and the end result is one management type person per person actually doing anything... They are "managing" teams of one each, effectively...
EDIT: To make it clear, I'm not an Intel guy, just commenting on an 'Intel-like' company behavior with respect to being stupid about layoffs.
I just started a corporate job a while ago and they still can't really tell me what I'll be doing. My onboarding plan suggests that in month 2-3 I'll be ready to get into it. Like, dude, wtf?
Just focus on the most important thing: going out drinking with the right superiors.
Ha, yes! I'm also enjoying the second most important thing: the fat paycheck
Layoffs usually cause the stock prices to increase because it shows the company is being "lean" and "cutting the fat".
Yeah, Intel is down 33% over the last two days... didn't work this time..
Some layoffs can be seen as "improving efficiency". This deep of cut is "oh shit, things are screwed".
It has me oddly hopeful. It sounds like they may have finally realized that they can't ignore their core product/purpose. However, whether it's too late or if they have the ability to actually execute is still to be seen.
Frankly, no idea. They talked the talk, but it's vague enough that I wouldn't be surprised if they cut out some important people and kept a lot of the bogus crap.
Speaking from a company that has seen (less dramatic) rhetoric around similar circumstances, and everyone on the ground who understood nuance would have guessed certain projects to get canned. Then it turns out they treated the money losing projects as the sacred cows and cut the profitable projects to the bone and put them at risk rather than give up the losers.
Capitalist machines of this size blinded by profits seem to be unable to see what's actually happening or make logical decisions.
I had a friend in the '90s who took a $40K inheritance and "invested" it all on $75 Fossil watches, the kind with Popeye and other cartoon characters on them. At least she was able to show them off at parties and get all the guests to go home.
He's gonna make a ton of money then, because investors love layoffs.
The stock is down 30% so far, so I think you may not understand investors very well haha
Give it time. Next Monday or Tuesday is probably the day to buy.
So they're only keeping marketing?
I just sat through a "town hall" at a former GSK now Haleon site and a site director assured people that volume was coming back through nothing but the power of marketing alone. Apparently 8 dollar tubes of toothpaste are non sellers in a tight market. Who knew.
Probably just keeping the staff needed to replace all the 13th and 14th gen CPUs.
I really hope they plan on fixing the problems with those generations. 🤞
They aren't fixing shit since the problem is unfixable
I suppose I should’ve phrased it as, compensating. Seeing as they are still being sold.
American companies don't compensate unless legally obligated.
And then they send you a $10 Uber Eats card.
They just want you to wat out of their hand so you don't have a standing to sue.
The problem is fixable in microcode -if- it hasn't already caused damage to the CPU. Most CPUs are fucked.
The micro code fix is to throttle the CPU. It's only kind of a fix.
And the "fix" (big foam helmet) is not even out yet. They don't have the chips to replace them all right now and are still selling more. You can help yourself by setting the clock speed (no boost) yourself.
Oh and after the foam helmet gets put on they will still sell these using the old higher specs.
It sounds like a workaround, not a fix. And it's not clear that it stops the processor degradation, rather than just slowing it.
There's no such thing as stopping processor degradation, it's just that it usually takes so long that nobody cares anymore.
Didn't expect CHIPS to backfire this fast lol.
Chips Act, Take 1: Hey Intel here's 8 Billion dollars to make us more chips in the US. Intel: I gotta let 15,000 of you go, there's just not enough money......
I thought they would be more tacit about it. This is too obvious and too soon after taking taxpayers’ money. But they probably don’t care anyways. Who is going to stop them or hold them accountable?
It got us a TSMC fab, soon ish maybe lol
I don't think it backfired...I truly don't believe the Chips act is a jobs act. It is to address manufacturing gaps in semiconductors within the US. The US government wants semiconductor manufacturers to update foundries and gave them money to do so. The jobs that have been added within the industry have been icing on the cake but not the original intent imho.
The CHIPS plants just started being built a few months ago. This is bad for the employees and short-term investors, but long-term Intel will be fine and the plants will be a net positive to the country.
Is this really a backfire? My read is that they're actually focusing on their core business (plus cutting down marketing). It sounds like the right move, but maybe I'm too optimistic?
As a 30-year-old trying to break out into a tech career, this is incredibly disheartening.
Really difficult to not give up all hope with headlines like these. How to believe in potentials for opportunities with these barrages of bad news? Where is the hope--Any silver linings at all?
Intel is a failing company and has been for years, it has nothing to do with the tech industry. They failed to invest in chip fabrication, and their designs are soundly beaten by AMD and Nvidia. Look at AMD and Nvidia, they're making record profits and hiring.
Also, the tech industry is a huge place, there are plenty of opportunities outside of the hardware niche that Intel operates in. I will admit though that the current interest rates and risk of recession does make it harder for junior programmers.
They are doubling down on that mistake it would seem. Article says most of their losses last month were from their foundry division. I realize I'm just a random person on the ground, but shit like this really has me shaking my head. For a company like Intel foundry is absolutely essential to their business. If they can't build the chips, build them better, faster, smaller, they can't compete. It's like if Airbus said they are firing everybody in their airplane division to focus on important things. What the hell, the airplane is the important thing. Same thing with Intel.
Seems like a great time to buy stock in AMD.
Yup. A better simile is Boeing. Quality don’t matter if cutting it makes number go up. Oops.
John Deere smiles and waves from the sidelines.
Well it's cannibalizing the company. You're absolutely right about Boeing.
HP was another example. Fire all the engineers and R&D types, rush whatever's already in the pipeline into production. You get a couple of fantastic quarters because you have new products without the R&D costs. But then you run out of new products in the pipeline and everything goes to shit because you killed your golden goose.
I will always say, "Fuck Carly Fiorina" for ruining the finest company in the engineering world.
Absolutely. What she did to HP was almost criminal.
HP, Boeing, Intel (twice now)...
Apply to non-tech companies. There ate many companies who aren't in the tech sector that relies on in-house tech.
You like tech? You like wiring up and programming state-of-the-art commercial automation, access control, and cctv systems? You like to move around as well and work with your hands and tools, all on the same job? Become an electronic security technician. Been doing it for 20 years, it's great, and always hiring, almost never firing, unless you get caught smoking meth or something.
Nothing wrong with a more blue-collar style job.
Similar job is power grid installation. Those are in high demand, and you get yourself a passport and you can make even more setting up transformers in weird places in the world after a few years experience.
This sounds beyond ideal--I don't know if you're trolling, because I have to imagine this line of work is never in demand at all, but hoping for interviews soon, and I can't thank you enough even if you're joking
As the OP said, get a job outside of tech.
The biggest research hospitals employ electronic engineers, software engineers, chemical engineers, physicists, statisticians, network engineers, sysdamins, etc.
Insurance companies? Auto industry? Power companies, pharmaceuticals, local governments etc. The best part about being a STEM is that you have a place everywhere. You just gotta be willing to bend your expectations until you find something that fits you.
But how do I find those jobs? When I search in Indeed all I get are tech companies or MSP's. I'm currently working as a sysadmin for a Mom & Pop company and are severely underpaid.
My dude, if you lived in the right city, could pass a drug screen, and are not a moron, could get you an interview for a job installing power grid equipment in a week. With overtime take home pay is usually around 80k first year, after that it depends on how much you want to work.
We have blue collar guys making 250k+ a year. Granted they are away from their home most of the time, but most of them are younger dudes with no family.
Find something middle sized. I work in a bakery, around 200 employees. I do some industrial automation, in house IT support and I ended up writing ERP for the joint. I think I could get 20 to 30 percent more at a larger company but here I do what I want and not what I'm told to.
Get 5 remote work jobs and keep the ones that don't suck.
What kind of tech are you trying to get into?
I guess Intel needed that QA team, after all.
The money needs to return to the government. Some wealthy fucks are lining their pockets.
Non essential work, oh dear Product and Project managers, where are you gonna stand in the way of good products next?
Executives will be "essential", QA, sys admins, etc will be non essential.
Eliminating QA is a huge value. We all know it reduces costs relating to employing people, but that's just the start. It eliminates the number of bugs found and reduces the amount of work that comes with it. All in all it helps projects to release on time. There could be no problem with this, clearly.
All my KPIs are saying this is a win.
If you don't check it, it never fails a check!
What's there not to like?!
Traditional QA is horse and buggy shit anyway. Shift left and make your tests the requirements (ATDD). Testing is self service, automated and there's zero delta between behavior intended and behavior tested. Put product owners on the hook to learn Gherkin and Bob's your uncle.
What the actual fuck
There's no corporate death penalty, but there is corporate death from alcoholism, coke overdose and syphilis.
I mean, you do a TRAFU and instead of firing those logically responsible for it you fire your actual troops.
This basically means they failed to find scapegoats inside the company who wouldn't be management themselves.
Wow.
I work in the industry and my understanding of the chips act is certain goals must be met in order to receive money. Something like in order to get this 50 million, you must buy 100 million of new equipment and facilities improvement. In order to get this 25 million you must have 50 million worth of new jobs. These requirements were also spread out over years so you couldn't artificially inflate your work force or sell off equipment.
Not saying Intel doesn't suck, but I doubt they are getting chips act money now. Or they will have to have a big turn around in the next few years to do so. They certainly aren't getting a free 8 billion.
These layoffs will only be for a quarter or two. Just enough for the c-levels to unlock their full bonuses.
And create a glut in their labour market niche, which will take many years before the wages recover to what they were. In the current 20 year permanent labour shortage scenario, this is the way to prevent wages from increasing. Sure these demand shocks will create issues by they're making the bet the lower overall expenses for wages will make it all worth it. This is them leveraging the imbalance of power been employer and employee
If only there were some tried and tested method for the working class to join together and create a power block equal to the company in order to negotiate better pay and conditions and avoid these outrageous tactics. Pity
Exactly! And then the Government can declare you an essential service and take away all your bargaining power!
Oh wait...
More like oh no, here I go molotoving again.
I hope it will never hit that point where its the only way forward.
Seems like a great time to buy AMD, ARM and QUAL
Only if you have conviction. Buying tech in the face of recession fears is one thing, but buying tech that supplies hardware to tech is another. It'll probably sound like a whip cracking if the AI frenzy ever collapses hard
ARM and Qualcomm aren't really involved with AI, and AI only makes up 15-20% of AMD's revenue. Nvidia the one to watch out for, an entire 85% of their revenue is just AI and Mellanox. The Nvidia pump has been insane.
The elephant in the room is the semiconductor ETF trade. People are actively trading ETFs more than actual tickers (SOXL is routinely one of the highest volume tickers day in and day out, and it's been like this for a couple years now). Used to be that NVDA and AMD correlated with crypto because people would flip them on that basis, but not really the case anymore due to all that but I digress - if NVDA tanks, it's really overweight in all these ETFs, ETFs tank, managers dump every holding in the ETF, and a bunch of non-AI semi stocks will wind up getting walloped about as hard
That's true, Nvidia's fall will probably crash the whole market. SOXL tickers don't trade in unison though, see how much Intel fell in the premarket without affecting other stocks. Of course, Intel is a tenth of the size of Nvidia.
Yeah, the tail could definitely wag the dog. NVDA is now in the top 3 holdings of both SPY and QQQ, so if something like 2 Metas or 1 Microsoft started paring back and skipped on a product cycle, Nvidia's forward metrics would suddenly be garbage, and between those couple companies, suddenly >15% of market is tanking and dragging entire sectors along for a wild ride
Nvidia's AI gambit is at least diversified to different kinds of AI. Even if (or probably when) LLM AI taps out, Nvidia will likely also be behind the AI tech that takes its place.
I honestly don't think investors can tell the difference between LLMs+SD and more useful neural networks like audio and video filtering tools. All the money is in LLMs, anyways, I don't think anybody is buying $1B of datacenter CPUs for the more useful kinds of AI.
This is an admisson of no future.
They're throwing crew out of their boat full of holes to assure investors they're ship shape... for the next quarterly profit report.
Their corpse will be long since picked clean of their patents, assets, and trademarks by 2030.
Somebody should make a Borat Meme with AMD and Intel "Big Success!"
Done.
Thank you kind sir!
While i dont like intel, I hope they wont sack GPU division.
They won't. That's their springboard into that multi trillion dollar AI market everyone keeps talking about
unless some MBA decides that it's better to sell single purpose expensive ai boards without video output
So the semiconductor jobs and manufacturing aren't coming back to the US?
Who else saw this coming? Because I did.
I remember telling people that and they wouldn’t believe it. Time has a way of making the unknown known.
Read article
I read it and predicted this outcome in 2022. If Intel wanted to open factories and employ people in the US it would have done so without the CHIPS Act.
No company will say no to free taxpayers’ money, so they didn’t. But they spent it on stock buybacks and now they’re laying off thousands of workers and are selling a defective product.
Now here’s an article for you to read that may be unpalatable https://globalsouth.co/2023/07/10/michael-hudson-why-the-u-s-economy-cannot-re-industrialize/
Fair criticisms, but the statement from CEO is that the layoffs are to offset fab investments, so there isn't any clear reason to conclude that Intel's US chip manufacturing is dead based on this. We won't be able to infer anything of that sort until we see what areas they actually cut.
Future promises vs present actions. Only time will tell.
This sort of thing is increasingly making TSMC a monopoly as a fab. Due to the extreme economies of scale, fabbing looks like something that is hard to do well under the capitalist model. Perhaps a good time for some of the larger nations of the world to start publicly owned fabs (that publish their research instead of hoarding it) instead of ending up with the whole world reliant on one company that will eventually be able to name its price.
Anyone else still beliving capitalism will do R&D willingly? Even most recent and hyped(not without reason) development - powervia - came from institute from former soviet bloc.
I feel like they have the farm bet on Falcon Shores and (to a lesser extend) the Xe line now, and of course the foundry.
It'd be great if the bad rumors and delays would stop... yeah...
FIFTEEN THOUSAND HOLY SHIT
How long before Nvdia buys them, or at least tries to. Nvidia tried to buy Arm but got stopped by the UK government.
Arm is worth 5.3bn USD and employs just over 8000 people. Intel is worth just over 100bn USD and employs 124,000 people.
Nvidia is worth 42bn USD and employs 30,000 people.
That makes Intel over twice as valuable as Nvidia with over four times as many employees.
Nvidia's has a market cap 30x of Intel's. So it could issue more stock to raise capital for a buyout. It's not the company equity but the market cap that it needs to have money to purchase. Even a controlling stake of > 50% would give them defacto control. Of course governments & regulators would probably block it or force Nvidia to divest bits of itself, and that's probably the greatest protection Intel has against such a scenario.
But if Intel weakens further, it may well be someone else tries to acquire it. I bet a lot of companies would love to snaffle it up. It's kind of ironic that Intel used to be the big dog in the semiconductor space but even AMD is bigger than it these days and are potentially many others who'd like buy it out. In fact, for all we know Intel might be shedding all these jobs to make it look more attractive to potential buyers.
The thing is that AMD and Nvidia are chip designers not chip makers. While Intel does design and print chips, the reason Intel is so critical (from US perception) is they own the foundries to make chips.
AMD decided years ago to go fabless, as for Nvidia I'm not sure they want to own the fabrication process.
Don't understand your "worth" numbers, that's generally market cap and those numbers don't line up. The employee counts line up...
100B is... close enough for Intel (though they have fallen to 95B). So $730,769 per employee
ARM is $140B... So $20,000,000 an employee...
nVidia is worth 2.7T.... $90,000,000 an employee...
Nvidia wants IP. They do not want to buy foundries. It's too volatile and dependent on government subsidies while also being well outside their core competencies. If their products don't sell as a fabless company, they don't see growth and lose on the manufacturing cost and stop placing orders. If their products don't sell and their chip fabs run idle, they lose a shitton of money on not just the above but also the cost of maintaining the fabs. Not only is there no guarantee that Nvidia would be able to run the foundries better, it's actually quite likely they'd run them worse.
At this point I'm starting to think that if you want to subsidize semiconductor manufacturing in the US the Global Foundries might be a better investment. At least they've already hit rock bottom.
Lets hope they ditch the israel division
Why that specifically?
Because Intel takes American subsidies, so it would be best to keep the money circulating in America by providing jobs to Americans. Not subsidize some Apartheid in the Middle East.
Linkerbaan isn't capable of any discussion that doesn't involve Israel, and must involve it in any thread he participates in no matter how irrelevant. This is just what he does.
I wonder how irrelevant Intel is to israel
Also nice false framing and straight up lying about my activity on Lemmy.
Boycott Divest Sanction
It's not necessarily the thread to bring it up but linkerbaan is on a mission.
Let's hope they ditch.
Wow, intel must really be struggling if they need to lay off this many people. I don't think it's reasonable to invest in Intel at this time.
Or well, I think news of layoffs should always be interpreted in a way that's pessimistic for shareholders.
Have you seen the performance and efficiency of these arm chip? The performance and battery life of Apple's chips compared to the Intel chips before then? Intel should be absolutely embarrassed.
I must admit I don't keep up with chip developments.
So, buying opportunity?
"Here is more evidence that our system is fundamentally broken and doesn't serve the people who make it run anymore"
You: "How can I profit from this?"
You sound like a CEO in the making.
I mean, stock prices do go up after stuff like this. It's a reliable way to profit.
The system sucks, but this is literally how rich people turn money into more money, while we complain we don't have enough.
I may be a socialist, but I live in a capitalist dystopia, so sometimes I just exploit the system that exists instead of constantly taking the idealistic high road and getting kicked in the teeth for it.
Even Marx dabbled in the equities markets.
People seem to think having an economic philosophy is the same as having a moral philosophy. Absolutely not. If you look at a system and conclude "This is dysfunctional, it's leaking money everywhere" that doesn't preclude you from getting a sponge and mopping some of that money up.
Would be awesome if DARPA bought them...
Man I really should've bought some Intel instead of Nvidia.
Wait, their stock is 30% down today, what happened?
The entire stock market is a casino for rich people and the rest of us are just hoping we can scratch a retirement out of it?
Yeah, I guess.
Stop "non-essential work"...
But I bet they'll still ship bloatware updates for Windows
Intel is not Microsoft
I'm talking about all those Intel programs that come preinstalled.
"Intel device smart updates" "Intel audio control center"
That kind of garbage
Those would only be preinstalled if your motherboard has the requisite hardware and you download the drivers and the utilities it wants you to download. They arent preinstalled in any windows ive used, pc or even laptops. Theres a lot of shitty bloatware out there, but intel is hardly worth mentioning in that arena. And theres such better things to make fun of them for too, lol.
It does come pre-installed on some computers depending on the provided OS and the changes made by the manufacturer. If you install your own fresh version of windows, it should only be installed if windows believes you need it for the component to function.
My last pre-built came with a bunch of garbage before I wiped it with a fresh copy of windows and almost all went away. I would certainly not say Intel is the worst though, older dell machines and even relatively modern HP machines come with a bunch of "necessarily for the component to function" garbage that can't really be uninstalled easily (windows will reinstall them).