Do you daily drive Wayland, if so since when, if not when will you?

headroom@lemmy.ml to Linux@lemmy.ml – 223 points –

I've been on Wayland for the past two years exclusively (Nvidia).

I thought it was okay for the most part but then I had to switch to an X session recently. The experience felt about the same. Out of curiosity, I played a couple of games and realized they worked much better. Steam doesn't go nuts either.

Made me think maybe people aren't actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community. And that maybe I should just go back.

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I’ll adopt it when it’s ready.

For NVIDIA users, that's the right answer. For AMD users, it's already ready. No problems here (6700xt)

Yeah, it was ready for my old AMD machine. My new Nvidia box...nah.

But since I've switched to XFCE, I don't need to worry so much about new-fangled things like Wayland...for now.

All AMD here and I can't have it as a daily driver. So many issues made me hate my PC. Back to X11.

Which DE are you using? I'm using KDE.

Plasma 6. I'm going through a very busy time at work at the moment. Once it's done, I'll just reinstall the whole system and see if that helps.

It's not just about hardware compatibility. It has to be compatible with existing workflows, and it's currently very limiting.

Which workflows? Asking because I'd like to experiment with some edge case stuff.

I'm running KDE with wayland on multiple different vintage machines with AMD and intel graphics and it would take alot for me to go back to the depressing old mess that was X.

The biggest improvement in recent times was absolutely pulling out all my Nvidia cards and putting in second hand Radeon cards, but switching to wayland fixed all the dumb interactions between VRR ( and HDR ) capable monitors of mixed refresh rates.

Even the little NUC that drives the three 4k TV's for the security cameras at work is a little happier with wayland, running for weeks now with hardware decoding, rather than X crashing pretty well every few days.

For me it's a million little details that just don't work. Stuff like positioning windows, removing decorations from a window, remapping buttons on a trackball, setting a graphics output to tvrgb, disabling a display via ssh and enabling it again, etc.

Appreciate the reply. Which desktop environment are you using?

My only experience with Wayland is also with KDE. Wheres for the 27-ish years before that I've used all sorts of stuff with X.

I've scripted the machine that drives the frontend for our video surveilance ssytem to place windows exactly where I want them when it comes up.

I use a couple of dbus triggers that make the TV on the wall in my garage go to sleep from the shell, perhaps not tested via ssh though. They were pretty well the functional equivalent of some xset dpms commands that I used to use. Not sure if that is what you were meaning. I think I also had something working that disabled the output altogether. I think that was pretty clunky as it used some sort of screen ID that would occasionally change. Sorry I'm hazy on the details, I'm old.

I'll try it all out when I get home, I've got to find some old serial crap for a coworker in the garage anyway.

I use gnome for the most part. I have been checking out kde recently to see how the newer versions stack up (gave up on it during the 4.0 days). As you mention kde supports dpms changes on wayland because they have their own protocol extension for that.

That's actually my biggest gripe with wayland - the huge amount of fragmentation it has caused. I'm pretty confident that almost all the missing features I talked about are possible on one or two of the compositors, but not all of them. And definitely not on the one I use. I'm sure once some pragmatism takes hold that all the issues will be ironed out, but my plan for now is to stick to X11 until that happens.

Agreed, it seems like they should have put just a little bit more in the standard feature set so every little window manager doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.

On nvidia, there are still too many edge cases involving Wayland that are just crippled. Orca slicer doesn't work for me for example, you are completely missing any of the 3d accelerated graphics in there.

On the other hand, the AMD 7x00 series have different kind of bugs, with ring0 errors leading to full resets.

I think once nvidia drivers are squared out (the proprietary ones) it will be smooth sailing.

Yes. I've used X11 for far too long to have any rose tinted glasses for the piece of fucking broken shit it always was. a LOT of people don't realize how many hacks, workarounds and sheer tears and duct tape goes into making the piece of shit render the smallest line on the screen.

That's also why Phoronix comment section neckbeards are so infuriating for me. They talk like X.Org works like at all.

That’s because their mid-2000’s setup with single 1024x768 screen works just fine with compositing disabled, 24bit color depth via VGA connector.

I had to switch to Wayland the moment I tried to run simple 4K@60 on my old RX570, and Xorg was just refusing to set the mode, or produced some colorful vomit garbage when forced to do so, no matter what. And Wayland (just like Windows) simply worked.

Was it perfectly ready back then? Heck no. Is it ready now? Maybe not for everyone, but it’s getting there and time is telling us that the missing parts on Wayland side are fixable.

Criticism is viable to some degree, though. Because from the very beginning there were certain assumptions made, and creators of the base protocol didn’t care about real world use on desktop as much as they cared about the security model, it takes a lot of time to solve some of those. The development is slow and there are always some gaps here and there, but I watch it long enough (17 years) to know that to some degree it is like that with the entire ecosystem, let alone Xorg that no programmer wants to touch anymore for anything but simple bugfix or security patching.

When some crappy vendors (ahem, Zoom) bother to get screen sharing working on Wayland.

Until then I'm stuck on xorg at work, but it's Wayland all the way at home... not by explicit choice, just the distro default.

Since I switched to AMD about a month ago. Literally every naggling issue I had with NVidia is gone. Only complaint is that I didn't switch sooner.

I mainly use Wayland(nvidia) and have been using it for the last couple of years. Only switch to X11 when there is a game that absolutely won’t work with Wayland.

As I see it both display servers are ass.

X11 just being old and crusty, maintainers don’t really wanna deal with it. Vsync in general has problems so you usually just turn it off in hope of your software running fast enough(or you could lock fps lower than display hz) so you won’t get screen tearing.

Wayland being new and has active development is great but now we have a very opinionated dev team. It took until Valve came along for them to actually listen to complaints, I guess if Valve is knocking at your door you would answer.

Some days I’m pretty close to going back to Windows, then I remember how ass windows is and I just deal with it. And for anyone saying “just buy AMD” I had a AMD card before this and I couldn’t even use Linux, it would just constantly crash.

Maintainers don’t want to support it? Because the code is shit and they developed a new product Wayland. I mean when the people who develop it think the code is unmaintainable.

I'm using Wayland on my AMD laptop (with integrated Vega graphics). I had zero problems with this setup.

Why I'm not using it:

  • worse performance (Nvidia)
  • couldn't get screen sharing and recording to work
  • unfinished or abandoned alternatives to xorg tools (swhkd for example)

Made me think maybe people aren't actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community.

Take the community with a grain of salt; It's made up of the same type of people that say Arch is a stable distro that never has any issues.

Some distros are pushing it aggressively (Fedora for example), so use them as a more accurate gauge. If Fedora doesn't accept the proposal to start phasing out xorg, you can know for sure it doesn't have the conversion rates they're hoping for.

I think the Xorg vs Wayland situation is not too dissimilar to that of Windows vs Linux. Lots of people are waiting for all of their games/software work (just as well or better) on Linux before switching. I believe that in most cases, switching to Linux requires that a person goes out of their way to either find alternatives to the software they use or altogether change the way they use their computer. It's a hard sell for people who only use their computer to get their work done, and that's why it is almost exclusively developers, tech-curious, idealists, government workers, and grandparents who switch to Linux (thanks to a family member who falls into any subset of the former categories). It may require another generation (of people) for X11 to be fully deprecated, because even amongst Linux users there are those who are not interested in changing their established workflow.

I do think it's unreasonable to expect everything to work the same when a major component is being replaced. Some applications that are built with X11 in mind will never be ported/adapted to work on Wayland. It's likely that for some things, no alternatives are ever going to exist.

Good news is that we humans are complex adaptive systems! Technology is always changing - that's just the way of it. Sometimes that will lead to perceived loss of functionality, reduction in quality, or impeded workflow in the name of security, resource efficiency, moral/political reasons, or other considerations. Hopefully we can learn to accept such change, because that'll be a virtue in times to come.

(This isn't to say that it's acceptable for userspace to be suddenly broken because contributors thought of a more elegant way to write underlying software. Luckily, X11 isn't being deprecated anytime soon for just this reason.)

Ok I'm done rambling.

I've got three hard problems preventing me from using Wayland (sway/wlroots) right now:

  1. No global shortcuts for applications, especially legacy applications; I need teamspeak3 to be able to read my PTT keys in any application. Yes I know that could be used to keylog (the default should be off) but let me make that decision.
  2. Button to pixel latency is significantly worse. I don't need V-Sync in the terminal or Emacs. Let me use immediate presentation in those applications.
  3. VRR is weird. I'd love if desktop apps were V-sync'd via VRR but the way it currently works is that apps make the display go down to 48Hz (because they don't refresh) but the refresh rate never goes up when typing; further exacerbating button to pixel delay.

There's a portal for Global Shortcuts: https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShortcuts.html

KDE and Hyprland already implement it, and COSMIC seems likely to

On the app side, if we can get the major toolkits to adopt it, then hopefully that covers most actively-maintained apps (but it's unlikely to cover legacy apps): https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/38288

If I can get the portal to just forward every keypress (or a configurable subset) to an xwayland window, that'd work for me. (I am aware of the security implications.)

I'm not an expert, but my understanding of the Global Shortcuts portal is that it's very much designed for the push-to-talk use case where an app is not focused but still receives button events for exactly the keys its interested in and no other keys: I think this would cause problems if an app requested every key (e.g. if the request was approved then no keys would work in every other app)

It'll be interesting to see how the remaining compatibility/accessibility issues are tackled, either in portals or in wayland protocols

Yeah and that's great but my point is that I don't see an obvious way to use it for that in its current implementation. I'm sure you could build it but it's simply not built yet.

As far as I know xwayland in plasma/kde already does that. However as it's KDE, it is most likely configurable and might not be enabled by default :P

Last week I did an install of Debian 12 on a little NUC7CJYH to use for web browsing and ssh sessions into work and ended up with wayland by default. Seems to work great.

From what I have experienced, it goes great with intel integrated graphics, great with a radeon card and can be made to work with Nvidia if you are lucky or up for a fight.

My experience with Nvidia had been mostly seamless (although, laptops could be performing worse) up until recently when everything started bursting into flames. Electron applications are nuts, steam store doesn't even render, multiple game broke down fully. I can't even find any other use reports.

Every day on all my computers. No interest in going back to X11, things work better on wayland, multimonitor doesn't shit itself randomly anymore.

I switched to sway from i3 about 5 years ago. It's easier to configure (no /etc/X11 nonsense) and it fixed my screen tearing issue. I'm not much of a gamer, so can't comment on that. Supertuxkart and browser games work fine.

Exact same. Sway's 1.0 release was March of 2019, and it did everything I needed.

Even playing games on my desktop, Xwayland worked fine for me.

Is Sway like a Wayland equivalent of i3? That's the only thing really keeping me on X

Yes, sway presents itself as a drop-in replacement for i3 (just built on top of wayland instead of xorg).

I've used it on a Thinkpad laptop for close to 4 years, and on my desktop for the past 3.

The only problems I've encountered are some apps not being Wayland-compatible; xwayland makes the rendering work for those but then things like sharing a window or the entire screen don't always work. Notably, Discord's sharing doesn't work, but I can use OBS to record any entire screen since [the OBS devs] put in the work to properly support Wayland.

Oh interesting! I actually found Wayland to have a bit of an edge vs X. I just didn't like the Unity environment from Ubuntu so I've been using i3.

I'll have to give Sway a try

I’ve been daily driving Hyprland for almost a year now I think, my only complaint is that some of my electron apps act out a little bit (Discord won’t open links, etc). I don’t game as heavily as I used to, but I regularly am running Overwatch 2 around 200 FPS with no issues, and Bauldur’s Gate 3 is super smooth as well.

I will daily drive wayland once sway fixes all their compatibility bugs with i3 and once polybar works on wayland as well.

I think you meant sway, i3 is a window manager written for X11.

?

I said: "I will daily drive wayland once sway fixes their compatibility bugs with i3" That is I am not using wayland at the moment and I'm using i3 (x11) due to bugs in sway.

Sway is the wayland window manager that is a "drop in" replacement of i3. I can't use it right now because it has several bugs that prevent me from using it.

Nevermind me, haven't had my morning coffee yet, I read "I'll use Wayland once they fix their compatibility bugs with i3" so was kind of confused since i3 dies not work on Wayland.

since i3 dies not work on Wayland.

Might wanna drink a bit more coffee btw (sorry I couldn't hold it lol).

I'm using sway for approx. 2 years now and am very happy with it as drop in replacement for i3. What bugs are you referring to?

For bars, there are swaybar and waybar that run very smoothly. It's not 100 % polybar but with waybar you can get kind of close.

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8002

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8001

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8000

Also this issue which affects xfce apps in wayland:

https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/-/issues/1304

I also need to find a way to do "window devour" in sway.

I also tried Hyprland and it was a total nope for me, I wasted my time reading the wiki pinning workspaces to certain monitors only for hyprland to tell me that shit was deprecated. I also found that I can't move a floating window between displays in hyprland, as the move left/right commands move the floating window to the left or right of the display and don't actually move it left or right, that means the window gets stuck in the left or right side of the display when trying to move it into the next.

edit: And my polybar is a long config for multiple displays as well that has several features I worked on and I really don't wanna bother migrating to another bar:

https://imgur.com/2GXp2L6.png

I have indicators of cpu usage (which when click change the cpu scheduler), mem, gpu, etc, It also prints the names of the windows in the scratchpad which is the Xfce4-terminal Mate-calc in this case, the current workspace, the window class name and instance of the window with focus, the currently playing music track with playerctl, the volume in decibels, the current network speed, etc.

I've used it for about a year on a laptop with an 8th gen i7 and Intel graphics. It works well there.

When I have to. Either when Wayland does something that I can't do with X11, or X stops being supported.

I don't know lol. I running Manjaro right now, not a clue if it's x or wayland

More people should be like you.

The problem is for me stuff just works under Wayland. Multi finger gestures and the like. When I have to boot to x11 always a shock it’s not there.

Still holding out for desktop streaming via SteamLink to work on Wayland. I use it almost nightly to mirror my screen to my phone so I can watch what's on my PC while cooking dinner via my phone.

I should check that out. Can you just stream any application to your phone?

It's essentially just a remote desktop app, so yeah kinda. Depending on your screen resolution it'll be either be more or less annoying to click on smaller UI elements, but it's certainly possible.

I keep my Bluetooth headphones connected to the PC, and there's maybe a split second delay. Otherwise it's perfect, because you can still navigate your PC with the touch screen as a mouse, and it even nicely supports my 3 monitors at once.

I'll try again once Nvidia's 555 series drivers are released which should support explicit sync. Right now it's too unstable under Wayland even though I gave it a shot once KDE Plasma 6 released.

Yes, on my laptop where it works well and it allows for nice fractional scaling.

It works on my desktop too but I can't stand vsync while playing CS so it's Xorg for now.

I've been using Wayland for 2 years. It was enabled by default when I installed openSUSE Tumbleweed with Gnome.

I switched my laptop to Wayland about three years ago. AMD graphics, normal DPI 60Hz screen, doesn't really do more than run a web browser.

My gaming desktop needed more of those troublesome edge cases hammered out - freesync in xwayland, app DPI scaling in xwayland, etc. I only switched it last year.

ye. i've been using wayland since forever.

started on hyprland, and then moved to sway, but it's been an almost perfect experience for me

sometimes i have to install a different version of a package or smth, but otherwise everything works fine.

Why did you switch from hyprland to sway?

I have no experience with both, but to my knowledge they are similar, but hyprland is aheads of wlroots

they are very similar. my only problem with hyprland was that the mouse is still required for some things, and it's a bit annoying having to switch back and forth.

on sway, everything can be done by keyboard. i still use the mouse a lot, but there's less switching in the middle of tasks.

it's a little difference, but it was worth it for me.

there's also the drama about some people being transphobic (i think?) in the hyprland discord, but i try not to pay too much attention to that.

hyprland accomplishes it's goal of being pretty (and i got some really cool screenshots), but sway is pure functionality, and it's damn good at it.

Lol, hyprland has been partially hijacked by trans furries with tentacle fascinations and it is ridiculous. I disable the anime wallpapers but hyprland and its stack of hyprextras is a refreshing change from your classic OS's

Daily drove wayland back in November when I finally built my new desktop and installed Nobara. It's the default and it juat worked out of the box. Have always been a windows user until now.

Games workost of the time. Good enough for me. Full team Red build inside the case.

Tried Wayland about 5 years ago to see what all the hype was about, with Nvidia proprietary drivers, got a black screen. Could never get beyond that. Went back to xorg.

Tried about 3 or 4 years ago, with amdgpu drivers, no black screen this time but chrome would not work and a few other programs didn't work right or at all. There may have been special builds or wrappers to work around some of those issues but I had no interest in dealing with that at the time, so I went back to xorg.

Have not felt motivated to try again as I haven't had any issues with xorg. I'm using Nvidia drivers at the moment. I also heavily use turbovnc server with virtual gl and not sure how (or if) that'd work in combination with Wayland.

I haven't had to even think about the fact I'm using xorg or screw around with the configuration in like 10 or 15 years. It just works, for me and my setup, anyway.

Been daily driving sway for over 5 years now. There were a few problems along the way. I used to have JWM and then XFCE as a back up in case wayland fails. I really only need to go into them when there's a need for screen sharing. But then, I mostly live in terminal and browser. Low graphic games I play seems okay. The most demanding one I played is probably Starcraft 2 and it plays well even on my crappy 7 years old laptop with intel graphics.

3 or 4 years, including on Nvidia machines. I'll admit it took fiddling to get working awhile ago. Nowadays I use my desktops AMD iGPU as the main display driver and offload the rendering to the Nvidia card for intense programs or games, best of both worlds.

I daily drive Linux Mint, which has only recently just now launched experimental beta Wayland support. I've been on X11 this whole time and it's been surprisingly good.

I'll adopt Wayland when Mint does, I'm confident by then it'll be good and ready.

I do have a little tablet that runs Fedora Gnome, it runs Wayland. It's okay, though trying to get the digital pen to work properly is a problem because a lot of the advice out there is written with X in mind. But.

I'm confident by then it'll be good and ready.

Depends. Cinnamon Desktop is not a huge project, so yes it may be more stable because of how Mint releases stuff, but also it is not GNOME, KDE, COSMIC, or one of the wayland-only windowmanagers, so it may be less complete.

Sway for a little over a year now (on an AMD gpu). I switched for mixed refresh rate support and VRR. VRR requires a workaround in sway but works better in others, like hyprland, however I like sway's tiling better so I stuck with it. Also the absence of tearing in anything, ever, is worth it to me. I have two vertical displays and it was really hit or miss on X11. Sometimes GPU acceleration would just decide not to work in browsers and I'd have to restart them because smooth scrolling would turn into a stop-motion film. That's never happened since switching to sway.

EDIT: I used i3 before

Couple of years since I switched and I rarely run into any issues with my all-AMD build

Not yet. Biggest dealbreaker for me is screen sharing not working in Slack, which I need for work. Once that’s no longer an issue I will be more inclined to make the move. Given that plasma is becoming the default choice for distros, I hope Slack devs will make this a priority.

What I look forward the most with Wayland is actual support for fractional scaling. I think fractional scaling is required for a pleasant experience when using high dpi monitors, but Slack screen sharing has higher priority for me.

I actually had to switch to Wayland to be able to stream with audio on Discord.

WHAT! might I ask if you need any special version of discord? Or does audio sharing just-work on wayland

The official Discord app is halfway there. Sharing a window works with sound, sharing the entire screen doesn't work at all. Webcord can share the entire screen, though I don't know about sound yet.

To be entirely fair, Discord on windows can't share the entire screen with sound either, at least for me.

Yes as far as I know you need special clients for now. I’ve been using discord-screenaudio for a year or so and it works on Wayland. Also with the latest update of Webcord I’ve been able to stream with audio but friends are saying that it doesn’t sound as good.

Other than showing the xdg-portal popup when sharing your screen the experience is essentially the same as the Discord app.

I use xmonad/xfce which is not available on wayland, and I have no real desire to research alternatives and config them/learn their keyboard shortcuts/etc. Its unclear to me what the benefit is from switching, from a UI perspective. Probably nothing.

But I'll probably give it a try anyway in a few months maybe, I hear they merged something to make nvidia less glitchy, so maybe wait for that to be in my distro.

Essentially since I switched to AMD almost a year ago, and I switched so I could use wayland with freesync lol

As soon as it works. A recent update included Plasma 6.0.2 (on NixOS unstable/24.05) which apparently defaults to wayland, but it just exits to login right away. I'm not in a mood to tinker, so for now I plan to simply wait for things to Just Work. When I select "wayland" and things work and look the same (or better) is when I'm happy to rid myself of the horror that is X11, because as horrible as X11 is, it simply isn't giving me trouble these days - my system is stable and I like keeping it that way.

Edit: perhaps important to mention that I'm using a GTX 1070.

Edit 2: I realise that I'm sort of contradicting myself with how I worded the above. I don't mean to imply that I'm not willing to sacrifice anything to embrace Wayland; just that as it stands I don't think the benefits of Wayland outweighs my ability to use this computer the way I need to.

I don't think you will ever be able to use Wayland on Nvidia without enabling modesetting which sounds like you haven't.

Thanks for the suggestion. sudo cat /sys/module/nvidia_drm/parameters/modeset indeed prints N, so I'll try adding that to my system config.

I finally got around to restarting my system after adding hardware.nvidia.modesetting.enable = true; to my NixOS config and it works perfectly! Thank you for the suggestion. I likely wouldn't have figured that out on my own any time soon.

I've been using it on Ubuntu 22.04 for almost 2 years. It started off rocky, with frequent restarts needed, maybe every week or two. It's been pretty solid, though I did give up on using it for screen sharing and captures, which is unfortunate timing in today's WFH world.

I have used it for almost 3 years, no serious issues here.

I can't use Wayland until this xwayland Nvidia bug is fixed, which is a shame because I think that's the last thing holding Nvidia users back. I tried the new Plasma 6 recently and for the most part it was great until I tried gaming and hit that bug. I tried different older and newer beta driver versions but it was more or less the same bug.

Seconding this. XWayland is literally unusable with my 3060 Ti, while I've been having very few problems with X11. Hopefully explicit sync support is added before Fedora 40 drops

I've used Plasma on Wayland since 5.24, and Wayland-based tiling window managers before that. No complaints here. There have been some hiccups occasionally, but it's still leaps and bounds ahead of anything X11 could offer, at its best

been using it since i switched to amd.

been using it for even longer on my intel gpu laptop.

nvidia has been holsing it over for a decade at this point.

About 2 years ago when fractional scaling got good in kde. X just blurred the shit out of everything else. Pretty happy on wayland!

Zero issues for me. Been daily driving it for years. Play Steam games regularly, but have not tried switching to X. Performance on Windows is MUCH better with my 1080ti playing D4, but I'm prefectly content with preformance on Linux and don't want to keep switching.

I wanted to love Wayland but the fact is half of the apps I use are either too small in the UI or too blurry when scaled up. Until that’s fixed I’m staying on x11 begrudgingly.

I have these exact same issues with wayland on KDE.

Yep running kubuntu and I’m a xorg boi for a while still

When it is ready and passes black screen or can use hardware acceleration without crashing compositor, I'll use wayland

I used Wayland for a couple years on AMD hardware and it was fine; I didn't really have any issues. Since acquiring a laptop with an Nvidia card as a gift about a year agi (it was a hand-me-down), I switched to X11 because it is still more stable for Nvidia. I will be switching back to Wayland (with Nvidia) when Fedora 40 releases. Hopefully the support for explicit sync patch will be available by that time, but if not I won't be heavily affected, as I am not playing games currently. I expect that patch to fix the black frame insertion during VRR that people have been complaining about, at which point Nvidia will be viable (for me) on Wayland.

I've been on the Wayland train for quite some time now, it's only really had issues with Nvidia because Nvidia refuses to adapt their graphics driver for it. We have to rely on the Wayland and XWayland projects to fix the incompatibilities that Nvidia is too lazy to fix themselves (like not supporting implicit sync). Luckily AMD is on top of things and has worked very well with Wayland for years now, so those with AMD hardware are better off.

EDIT: Here's a link to a Lemmy post about the explicit sync patch. Looks like Nvidia drivers plan to support it in the May 15th patch, so about a month after Fedora 40 releases.

I have very recently after rallying against it for years. It seems like there has been a concentrated effort lately to get it working really well, which I only have to say "about damn time" after they've been advocating it for over a decade and it still was a buggy pile of garbage at that point. Plasma seems to have done a load of work getting Wayland stable lately, and with the latest Plasma6, I'm happy with it. There's some weirdness here and there but I can handle a little bit of problems vs. my entire system slowing to a crawl and then crashing after a day or two reliably when running Wayland vs. Xorg which ran fine even semi-recently.

Switched like a year ago or so, not really any difference on my AMD pc and Intel laptop. Now I need wayland for HDR on Plasma 6 so there's no way I could go back personally, as well as the great multi-monitor and fractional scaling handling.

Yes, for over a year now (since early December 2022, don't remember the exact date).

My experiences with it seem to constantly be different than that of most users, because Wayland was a direct upgrade for me - I couldn't play games properly on X11 at all because they would stutter and freeze really badly even when Vsync was disabled and the game reported to be running at 60 FPS, but Wayland fixed the issue altogether for me.

...Granted, I'm on an AMD card. If I was on Nvidia it'd probably be another story entirely. :x

Interested to hear you use it with Nvidia - I was led to understand it didn't play well with Nvidia.

I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes with my card.

I can only speak for the desktop, not laptops, when I say it works perfectly on Gnome and KDE and even Hyprland which doesn't even officially support Nvidia hardware. That said, for the first time in two years I started having big issues with a few games (though, I don't play a large number of games so take this with a grain of salt). Right now, I have an xorg session on the side to play those games. Although, I'm starting to notice it's missing some things from Wayland that I've gotten accustomed to.

Wayland is expected to get much, much better when the 555 drivers drop explicit support in May and when proton enables the wine wayland drivers.

I think about a year when I switched to it to see how it was and then forgot I had.

I started daily driving sway during the transition from wlc to wlroots back in early 2019 (sway 1.0), so it's been 5 years.

Note that's since I got an HiDPI laptop in 2015, I have been looking at Wayland progress from the GNOME side for a long time, but not completly daily driving it because of some annoyances.

Switched over to wayland about 4-5 years ago, have run into a couple of problems dealing with theming, fractional scaling and of course nvidia, but on the whole my experience has been without major issues.

In 2017 I bought a ThinkPad with a hidpi screen, which I knew would give me trouble with Linux. Fortunately the Fedora 26 beta had just been released and was using Wayland by default (I wasn't very Linux savvy to do it myself yet). I've been using Wayland on Fedora ever since without issue.

@headroom Wayland has been my daily for almost a year-and-a-half, most of that on Intel/Nvidia hybrid gpus. I used to use XFCE but switched to Plasma in anticipation of the Landing of Way.

For about 3-4 years. I switched after sway added support for per-display VRR which xorg cannot do still (and probably will never be able to do due to core design limitations)

On AMD it's been better than Xorg for a couple years now in my use case. No more tearing and latency issues, any games that don't play nice have worked fine with gamescope.

With HDR support finally on the horizon it'll be able to completely replace windows for me which I already barely use.

The only issue I regularly encounter is programs handling windowing strangely. Some programs like to switch themselves into my active workspace under certain circumstances which is mildly annoying but just requires that I press the hotkey to put them back where they belong a couple times a day.

I do, but I have to switch to X11 for work. I log in using VMWare Horizon Client, which technically works on Wayland, except that keyboard shortcuts and keys like Meta are caught by my desktop.

I daily drive a ThinkPad for work running Wayland. I have one occasional problem with a commercial application that I suspect is related but I haven't bothered to prove it since it's so infrequent. Otherwise, rock solid experience for the last year since I was given the machine.

Whenever X doesn’t work for me. I’ve never had an issue.

Cinnamon user here. Would love to try it when they get keyboard layouts figured out.

I tried Wayland out again last week and all it did was make my monitors flash white and black over and over again. Couldn't get it to stop unless I restarted. No idea how to fix that since I can't even do anything past the sign in screen lol. Maybe one day it'll work.

Let me guess, NVIDIA GPU?

Yeah, I have a 2080ti.

Install the proprietary NVIDIA drivers and set the nvidia-drm.modeset=1 and nvidia-drm.fbdev=1 kernel parameters via your bootloader command-line, then see what happens.

I appreciate you trying to help, but I don't understand what you just said to me so I'm gonna keep using x11 lol

I've been using wayland almost exclusively since 2020 because x-org doesn't support multi refresh rate setups and it was driving me nuts to have everything run at 60hz. It's been pretty smooth sailing because I use an AMD gpu. I have to admit that steam is indeed a lot buggier under wayland, I try to use gamescope for every game as that fixes most problems I have with them. My hope is that proton will use wayland for most games by the end of this or next year.

I switched from i3 to sway about 3(ish?) years ago now and haven't looked back. I've had very few issues with it and frankly it's been solid for me

I never switched. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Loads of broken features and extra work shoved onto the individual compositor / WM developers. I don't care about security on my own computer, I just want screen sharing and clipboards to work reliably.

That said, I use just one (ultrawide) monitor, so even the benefits aren't really there at all.

My Thinkpad touchscreens were useless until I switched to wayland.

The only drawback is I have to manually edit the qgis desktop file to start qgis with x11 instead of Wayland. I had to do the same to a couple other random experimental apps, too.

I have a laptop that has an AMD embedded GPU for the desktop environment, and an Nvidia GPU for playing games. I have been using Wayland since plasma 6 hit Tumbleweed maybe a week and a half ago. So far I've had zero issues, likely because I'm using my AMD graphics all the time (I haven't played games on my laptop since I switched to Wayland)

I've been on Wayland (Hyprland) for 8 months, unfortunately on Nvidia.

I've switched nearly all my computers to Linux with wayland in the past 2 years with the last device coming over in the last couple of months.

I run a headless fedora/kde /wayland gaming desktop (with a nvidia GPU) which I use exclusively over steam links dotted around the house. That took a bit of tinkering tbh but flawless operation since. Edit: Turns out its actually still on Xorg. Still some work to do here getting this moved over. I forget why I didn't stick but must've been some combination of headless and steam link streams

I use arch/hyprland on my daily driver laptop and arch/sway on my work laptop.

The wifes laptop is also fedora/KDE on wayland.

Professionally, we’ve only used Wayland in our products since 2015

Personally, I switched all my home computers to Wayland in 2021

A year and a half? Basically when hyprland got good enough. I used to use awesome and needed something with similar pretty features.

I know I have used it since Fedora made it default in 2016. I think I actually used it a while before that, but I don't have any thing to help me pin down the exact time.

Since I only use Intel built-in GPU, everything have worked pretty well. The few times I needed to share my screen, I had to logout and login to an X session. However, that was solved a couple of years ago. Now, I just wait for Java to get proper Wayland support, so I fully can ditch X for my daily use and get to take advantage of multi DPI capabilities of Wayland.

I am a relatively new Linux user, 3 years (almost 2 years dual booted with Windows and now only Linux) and I started using Wayland after approx 2.5 years ago. I used it on my ideapad gaming with 3050etx and Intel igpu and prior to that I used some hp laptop... With gtx 980mx. I used manjaro then arch and then fedora for the last yeae mostly and I haven't encountered any issues with Wayland whatsoever

Since Fedora 35 or more specifically rawhide in the lead up to Fedora 36, so late 2021. Plasma Wayland session, it had some rough edges, but I found it tolerable. I understand some people wont put up with it, or find workarounds and that is fair. Its been good to experience it as it has matured.

When network keyboard and mouse sharing works. It is the only thing stopping me going full Wayland.

Are you using synergy? I have that but don’t use it anymore since they changed their code and I began to feel like a beta tester, but your point stands nonetheless. I always use Wayland on VMs but my main machine is X11 because I keep running into edge cases that make using Wayland inconvenient.

Does input-leap help?

Nope, synergy, barrier and input leap all break if I use Wayland on either or both machines.

Yes, I have Wayland on both my gaming machine and my laptop. I switched for security reasons (i.e. client input isolation). I think Wayland compositors tend to be buggier than X WMs/DEs, just because they are newer/more immature, and there is less native support for it. But some native Wayland-only programs are really good, like Foot is pretty much the perfect terminal emulator for me, being lightweight and fast but with sixel support too. It pretty much has every feature I want to use (except ligature support but that's not super important to me) without any of the features I wouldn't use (looking at you Kitty).

However the downside is the occasional program that just doesn't work on Wayland, like JetBrains IDEs, which are one of the few pieces of proprietary software I voluntarily use. JetBrains IDEs use a bunch of X hacks so they have some buggy behaviour on Xwayland. I really hope JetBrains hurries up with their native Wayland support, especially since so many DEs and distros are moving to Wayland by default now.

I also wish there were more tiling compositors out there. It seems to just be Sway, Hyprland, River, DWL, and QTile (which has a Wayland option, which is very cool). Of which I have daily driven Hyprland and River and been happy with them. I know there's others but they seem pretty obscure or abandoned and not something I'd be looking to daily drive. On X there are so many WMs for every possible use case. And of course the popular X WMs are pretty mature software; I don't remember many breaking bugs when I was on i3, but Hyprland and River are in very active development which means a new update can mean bugs of varying levels of annoying/need a workaround/need to downgrade.

I switched to Wayland to get discord streaming with audio working but now Steam remote play has issues capturing some windows unless I open Steam with the -pipewire option. Other than these issues with video streaming it’s been almost the same ir better than x11 on my AMD machine.

Tried wayland but it doesnt work on debian stable + kde + nvidia hickup-free yet. I will switch when a) the fixes come to stable and b) a need to switch arises.

Have been using GNOME with Wayland on a dual GPU NVIDIA laptop for 2 years. DE runs on the integrated Intel card; Steam, games, anything that needs dGPU runs on NVIDIA. It’s been a smooth experience.

I use Sway exclusively on my personal systems. For work, I have to use Zoom, and you can't share your screen on Zoom if you're using Wayland. So I use xorg-server and i3.

Aside from Zoom, the only thing I wish would support Wayland better is ffmpeg. There are janky workarounds to make ffmpeg capture from Wayland, but they're... well, janky workarounds. If I abolutely have to capture video from my desktop, I switch to xorg-server/i3 long enough to do that then go back to Sway.

I'll switch to Wayland on my work machine when Zoom supports it. And I guess the ffmpeg thing, while unfortunate, isn't enough of a deal breaker to keep me from daily-driving Wayland.

I use sway and run zoom in my browser (because zoom is shady and I don't trust them). Screen sharing works fine in the browser. The application never worked very well to being with anyway for me, even on X11.

I also use https://git.dec05eba.com/gpu-screen-recorder/about/ for individual output screen recording such as gaming which works amazingly well. You can not select a section of a single output though, only the whole output. That's a deal breaker for some, and a non-issue for others, just depends on what you need.

Full AMD. KDE. Only one issue. I RDP into my work laptop, and sometimes I get weird artifacts on the screen until I minimize/maximize. Everything else is flawless

I tried it a few times on different hardware. There were weird lags, freezes, crashes, latency, artifacts, flickering (once I had to reinstall the system to fix it), no cursor in games etc etc so no thanks. It doesn't work for me. Maybe it's possible to fix if I spend a week in the terminal but ehh idk. It's just not ready for me I guess. And I didn't even have enough time to find compatibility issues. I'm a little bit afraid that by the time Wayland is ready, a new system will already be required lol. It's getting better though so probably it will be ready for business/production in a few years idk. The only thing I can definitely tell is that it must not be the default on regular desktop distros now. Wayland may be good but it's not mature. Switching to it on the login screen is a 3 seconds task and it fixes so many issues, especially on older hardware

Been on it for about a year now, both with my desktop's A770 and my laptop's AMD iGPU. Experience has been pretty much flawless.

When I can inject keystrokes to windows not on focus with scripts.

I am dependent on a couple of programs I run via wine - and wine still isn't directly compatible with wayland and buggy with xwayland...

I though wine merged their wayland drivers?

When I'm forced to, and not before then. X works perfectly well so there's no reason for me to switch to something else with less features.

Probably never. X11 just works better. Wayland has bad design and bad implementations.

I keep seeing people say this, and nobody ever gives any sensible reasons for why they believe this.

Do you honestly think X11 has a better design than wayland? Do you think every single app should have permissions to screen record without you knowing, to keylog without you knowing? That mixed refresh rates (without hacks) should be impossible, that mixed display scaling should be impossible, etc? X11 just seems fundamentally broken from the ground up, I have no idea what of x11's design is better in any way.

I'll grant you there's some implementation issues right now, but design is absolutely not a place where x11 wins. There is not a single X11 developer who would agree with you that the design of X11 is better than wayland, not even one.

Do you think every single app should have permissions to screen record without you knowing, to keylog without you knowing?

Can you point me to a single notable breach that happened because of this?

Classical security thinking is that if you have a compromised app running, it's all over anyway, and it's time to wipe and reinstall. Luckily, this isn't a problem on Linux because packages are vetted by distributions maintainers... unless...

Unless the new plan is to transition from that to flatpak proprietary stores packaged by unknown developers, giving us trashware app stores like on Android and Windows.

Sure, if you expect to run proprietary malware on Linux then some protection might be useful. But then you're just running a shitty version of Windows, and not getting the historical cultural benefits of Linux anyway. Might as well run Windows.

That is NOT classical security thinking AT ALL, and anybody who told you that is lying to you. Classic security thinking says minimize the surface area of attack...

...I'm sorry but your core argument seems to be "it's okay that clients can do literally whatever they want because if you run anything proprietary you should be using windows" and I don't understand this all-or-nothing stance. Do you expect me to vet every line of code that runs on my PC to make sure it's safe? Do you think everyone should do that? Do you think the operating system should be designed so that grandmas are required to read code before they install software?

I'm sorry but this is just so obviously terrible design, I don't know how you think gatekeeping solves anything, and that seems to be all you're doing. Shitty clients shouldn't be able to wreck peoples lives/computers, and we should minimize the amount of damage shitty clients can do. You also seem to believe that everyone is cognizant of the fact that they've been infected with something, in reality, you will go months or even decades without knowing you've been hit in some cases, we should minimize the amount of damage that can cause, not give them full access to everything on the entire pc because you think we should check every piece of software that runs.

There aren't newsworthy breaches involving x.org because it's widely regarded as not to be trusted, and has been for so long that nobody uses it for anything that needs security.

Flatpak is great and has a verification system so you know when the app is by the developer... It's sandboxed so the clients can't do as much damage, this is significantly easier for users to manage and prevents terrible things while not limiting anybodies usecase and allowing apps to be packaged for every distro at once. That's pretty awesome, actually, and you can use different repos if you don't trust flathub, i'm sure once flathub does something bad there will be alternate "more secure" ones.

Either way, I don't want to live in the world where you make the choices for software, it seems like you want a world where everyone needs a license to use their computer.

What the fuck are you smoking dude, X11 is used all over the place

and we should minimize the amount of damage shitty clients can do.

Can't have global shortcuts or share my screen but at least my system is secure from these non-existent threats snort

Why don't I just smash my computer with a sledgehammer for the ultimate protection from flatpak malware.

Global shortcuts and screenshare are supported fully...

also the places where a newsworthy leak would happen do not use x11 and/or carefully vet their software. The average user should not need to do that, it would be bad design to make them

Feels good to hear someone else say this. I regularly try switching and always end up finding bugs in the DE or clients. Some issues I've found have existed for years with no fix in sight.

I worry we'll end up in a situation where X11 starts accumulating bugs due to lack of maintenance while Wayland takes ages to mature.

Generally I have when I use Gnome or KDE on Linux, though I have started to prefer MATE, which doesn't have Wayland support yet afaik. I also started using FreeBSD on one of my computers a bit more, and I believe Wayland support is still a bit wonky on that right now. But as soon as Wayland support is there I'm definitely switching to that on the daily.

There is a Wayland WM that's specifically developed on FreeBSD called Hikari

I've been using it since it felt usable enough in GNOME to me. Around 2015-ish, give or take a year. GNOME leading on Wayland support is a big part of why I switched to it from Xfce back then. Nowadays KDE and others have plenty good Wayland support too (better in some ways like allowing server-side decorations and global shortcuts) but I just haven't felt like trying to properly experiment to see what I like.

I've always avoided Nvidia on my desktops. Stuck with either radeon or intel and never had any exceptionally big issues with them on Wayland. Though other things like hardware accelerated video decoding have had a history of being spotty on some drivers/GPUs.

I've been daily-driving hyprland for the last couple of months and it's been very smooth sailing for me. I configured it to very closely resemble my bspwm - polybar config though it was easier to set up. I have to say that in 99% of cases the experience is equivalent. You also get to run Wayland exclusive applications (though those aren't really common).

Yes. Since 2013 or so, if I remember correctly. Gnome 3.10.

About five years with Wayland now. Started with sway and now running KDE Plasma 6. It is snappy, simple and definitely so good I will not miss X11.

(I also think systemd is cool, you can crucify me now)

I've been using Hyprland for about 2 years. I did have some issues with screen sharing (teams, discord) and some steam games (non native, with proton) need some extra launch parameters, but they all work now. Over time I was able to fix all the little issues. For me Hyprland is a daily driver, but I like to tinker. I can see how this is not for everyone.

May I ask how you solved the screen sharing problems? Also do you use keybinds for apps such as discord? When I tried Hyprland none of them were working.

Hey, sorry for the late reply.

I remember installing xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland instead of xdg-desktop-portal, and in my hyprland config I have:

exec-once = dbus-update-activation-environment --systemd WAYLAND_DISPLAY XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
exec-once = systemctl --user import-environment WAYLAND_DISPLAY XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP

I can't remember everything I tried... I didn't keep track. I've been using this setup for close to 3 years now...

I know that for Ferdium I used the extra params --ozone-platform=wayland --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform, but I think it doesn't need them anymore (I use it for Teams and other chat apps with screensharing).

For Discord I use Webcord, which works just fine, also with screen sharing, I didn't have to do anything.

When it comes to key bindings, here's my working setup:

# binds
$mainMod  = SUPER
$lock     = playerctl --player=mpd,firefox,mpv -a pause ; ~/.config/hypr/scripts/swaylock

bind = $mainMod,       Q, killactive,
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, Q, exit,
bind = $mainMod,       X, exec, $lock # lock

bind = $mainMod,       RETURN, exec, alacritty
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, RETURN, exec, alacritty -t scratchpad --class scratchpad
bind = $mainMod,       E,      exec, nemo
bind = $mainMod,       W,      exec, firefox
bind = $mainMod,       R,      exec, rofi -show drun --allow-images
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, E,      exec, wofi-emoji
bind = $mainMod,       P,      pseudo, # dwindle

bind = $mainMod SHIFT, Space, togglefloating,
bind = $mainMod,       F,     fullscreen, 1 # maximize window
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, F,     fullscreen, 0 # fullscreen

bind = $mainMod,       S, exec, grim -g "$(slurp)" - | wl-copy      # screenshot selection to clipboard
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, S, exec, grim -g "$(slurp)" - | swappy -f -  # screenshot selection and open in swappy
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, R, exec, wf-recorder -a -g "$(slurp)" -f "${HOME}/$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%m-%s).mkv" -c h264_vaapi -d /dev/dri/renderD128 &>/dev/null           # screenrecord

bind  = ,XF86AudioMute,         exec, pactl set-sink-mute @DEFAULT_SINK@ toggle
binde = ,XF86AudioLowerVolume,  exec, pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ -2%
binde = ,XF86AudioRaiseVolume,  exec, pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +2%
bind  = ,XF86AudioMicMute,      exec, pactl set-source-mute @DEFAULT_SOURCE@ toggle
binde = ,XF86MonBrightnessUp,   exec, light -A 5
binde = ,XF86MonBrightnessDown, exec, light -U 5

# resize windows
binde = $mainMod, left,  resizeactive, -40 0
binde = $mainMod, right, resizeactive, 40 0
binde = $mainMod, up,    resizeactive, 0 -40
binde = $mainMod, down,  resizeactive, 0 40

# move focus
bind = $mainMod, h, movefocus, l
bind = $mainMod, l, movefocus, r
bind = $mainMod, k, movefocus, u
bind = $mainMod, j, movefocus, d

# move windows
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, h, movewindow, l
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, l, movewindow, r
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, k, movewindow, u
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, j, movewindow, d

# switch workspaces
bind = $mainMod, 1, workspace,  1
bind = $mainMod, 2, workspace,  2
bind = $mainMod, 3, workspace,  3
bind = $mainMod, 4, workspace,  4
bind = $mainMod, 5, workspace,  5
bind = $mainMod, 6, workspace,  6
bind = $mainMod, 7, workspace,  7
bind = $mainMod, 8, workspace,  8
bind = $mainMod, 9, workspace,  9
bind = $mainMod, 0, workspace, 10

# move windows to workspace without switching (silent)
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 1, movetoworkspacesilent,  1
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 2, movetoworkspacesilent,  2
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 3, movetoworkspacesilent,  3
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 4, movetoworkspacesilent,  4
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 5, movetoworkspacesilent,  5
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 6, movetoworkspacesilent,  6
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 7, movetoworkspacesilent,  7
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 8, movetoworkspacesilent,  8
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 9, movetoworkspacesilent,  9
bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 0, movetoworkspacesilent, 10

# move/resize windows with LMB/RMB
bindm = $mainMod, mouse:272, movewindow
bindm = $mainMod, mouse:273, resizewindow

# scroll through existing workspaces
bind = $mainMod, mouse_down, workspace, e+1
bind = $mainMod, mouse_up,   workspace, e-1

# switch workspace with mouse back/fw buttons
bind = $mainMod, mouse:276, workspace, m+1
bind = $mainMod, mouse:275, workspace, m-1

bind = $mainMod SHIFT,up,focusmonitor,u
bind = $mainMod SHIFT,down,focusmonitor,d

binde = $mainMod, TAB, workspace, previous

I have been running wayland with sway for around 6-10 months (I forget when I switched). I have a 4-monitor setup and hated the default workspace management but swaysome convinced me to switch. I heard a lot of stuff about how manual tiling is bad but I actually don't mind it and kind of prefer it to automatic tiling from AwesomeWM which I used before sway, .

When my DE, Budgie, supports it. I'm not too bothered about using it, with a beast monitor and a high-end PC I hardly notice the X.Org quirks.

I'll take it as when Budgie is ready to ship a full Wayland-only experience, I'll be ready to use one.

When I can use mtp connections with cli apps instead of only gui apps

I use multiple machines. On one of the core machines, I switched to Plasma 6 on Wayland when that was released. I used XFCE on X11 previously. It seems ok so far.

Mid 2022, when i swapped my nvidia card to an AMD one. Instantly switched to Wayland (KDE Plasma) and stayed there.

i'll probably jump the next time i change window managers or distros... i havent a reason to currently

I've been using Sway on and off since 2020. Wayland always worked well as long as it supports the specific use case and the apps are doing the right thing (e.g. pipewire, portals, no Xwayland).

VRR with multiple monitors and HDR are likely the biggest reasons to use Wayland, as most other improvements are less noticeable. E.g. Sway always felt more responsive to me than i3 + picom, even with a single monitor in 2020.

If you have issues with applications not working well on Wayland, either wait for proper Wayland support or ditch them. For Steam this'd likely mean stay on X.org.

I haven't touched the X11 session once since I got my laptop, all Wayland

Since maybe 2 years and i am very happy with it. Sometimes screensharing problems but thats it.

Niche, I know, but I'm waiting on full functionality in Input Leap (Barrier fork which was a Synergy 1.x fork). Right now it sounds like it's 90% of the way there but lacks clipboard sharing. I'm running Wayland on my desktop, but this soft kvm is pretty fundamental to my workflow on my laptop.

You're not alone, it's the same reason for me.

For my home workstation running Debian/Bookworm I started running Wayland-Plasma when Xorg mysteriously refused to work after replacing my video card. Wayland just worked and really had no issues for me so while I'm sure I could have solved the X11 problem I didn't have a real need to.

I also changed my laptop to Wayland-Plasma more recently. A problem I had was in setting up the right modes for external monitors on laptops but that seems to work OK now. Generally things just work.

Not yet. I'll give it another go when I get Plasma 6 (I'm on Debian, so either I'll switch to Sid or just wait a while).

Last time I tried it, it mostly worked, but mpv had some issues and missing features on Wayland. I haven't kept up with the mpv developments since then so I'm not sure if that's been addressed upstream yet.

I don't feel like fighting my OS. It locked up every time it went to sleep and I switched to X and the problem went away. Maybe I'll try again but why bother? Everything is working fine for me.

I only use wayland on my t480 and it makes a noticeable difference on that machine, but not on my desktop with Nvidia. I have been testing it for a couple of days on my Nvidia box though. So far I've found it mostly works better than I expected but some games played on Nvidia+Wayland makes it look like my monitor is about to die with the weird flickers it does at times and under certain conditions (like loading screens it's unbearable), otherwise performance is good and seems to lock in at 144hz. Also does anyone know why there are no settings in the nvidia-settings app under Wayland?

Probably like 3+ years on the laptop (Intel), approaching 1 year on the desktop (AMD).

Wayland + NVIDIA is still a disaster and a very inferior experience compared to the AMD side. I would stick with Xorg if I had NVIDIA too.

Only on Intel or AMD do you get a Wayland experience that makes you go "wow I can't wait for Xorg to be dead for good". I had a very, very noticeable improvement even years ago on Wayland when it comes to triple monitor performance, VRR and vsync in general. Now that screen capture and stuff is mostly figured out, it works perfectly for me.

At this point my only issues with Wayland are related to features that haven't been implemented yet, not bugs or performance issues. And I'm more than willing to workaround the limitations and take the benefits.

I've been patiently following development and waiting to switch for 10 years, first exploring Wayland with the EGLStream patch for Weston on my GTX 580. Even back then you could feel the difference, but obviously it was also unusable other than demos.

I don't use Wayland. I can. I've tried, but I went back to X. On Wayland, when I take a Firefox tab out of a window to make it it's own window, there's a pause of over a second until the new window appears. It drives me crazy every time. On X it's instantaneous.

I don't use two monitors, I don't use Nvidia. For everything else I use my computer for, I haven't found an advantage of using Wayland over X. So, I'll stay on X until I'm forced to change, I guess.

What distro/DE are you using? I don't have that problem nor have I heard of anyone having that problem

Manjaro/KDE/Plasma

Ah, there's your problem, manjaro is pretty much fundamentally broken.

see this discussion: https://lemmy.ml/comment/9214664

It's just a stream of incompetent mistakes with them, if you ever do a reinstall, consider anything else, you'll have a better experience guaranteed.

I've been using it since about spring 2022 and it's been way more reliable than X for me. The only times I've had trouble was one computer where I was missing one of the pipewire packages I needed for screen sharing and another time I tried to run it on a 20 year old Radeon X1600, but both of those were my fault and not something a normal user is likely to encounter. For context I've used Sway, Hyprland, GNOME, and Plasma although the usability has been the same between all of them.

Been running Wayland for 5 years on my development laptop (sway, Intel GPU, blacklisted the nvidia gpu). At the start I've had a couple of issues, nothing too bad. Haven't had any issues for over 2 years. Switched to Linux on my gaming PC about a year ago, KDE plasma on Wayland but do most of my gaming from a steam gamescope session. Very happy overall with Wayland, glad it exists. Sharp text on a fractionally scaled display for reading code was just too compelling at the time and it only improved.

I couldn't get the trackpad working right on X (why tf is acceleration on by default?), tried switching to Wayland in the first few hours of using Linux, and haven't had significant issues since. At that point I had no reference on performance, so no way to tell if X would be better.

There's maybe one bug that causes an unrecoverable GPU hang when using certain applications, but that may have been fixed in the kernel already, and I just need to use something newer than 22.04 LTS.

Yes, since Fedora 21 when it switched by default.

It hasn't really caused game breaking issues for me, however it is nice that the few nit-picks have all been resolved.

I get the sense that the majority of people use it on Workstations, there is just a vocal minority that resists the change. There are so many academic and enterprise users just using distros in their default state Wayland and all.

I was using it on a new work machine, it was fine.

The main issue is all the good tiling wms are X11 based and I don't really want to use a wayland version of i3. I want some dynamic tiling goodies.

When VMWare Horizon Client (which I need for work) supports it

I've been using it since Plasma 6 came out so about 3-4 weeks.

Overall, it's been a very negative experience for me. The main problems have been:

  • Random scaling issues in apps: some apps show a slightly smaller cursor, other show a poorly upscaled one, others have random rendering issues like lines remaining on the screen after an option is no longer highlighted (gimp, libreoffice, many others), some apps have random flickering of parts of the UI, some apps no longer scale at all or are scaled twice. Plasmashell itself has blurry icons on the desktop but all other KDE apps don't. I know fractional scaling has always been problematic, but it has gotten worse to the point of being almost unusable
  • Random crashes of GTK apps when using the wayland backend. Some GTK apps don't even start and segfault immediately with a wayland error in the terminal
  • Some apps like okular and libreoffice lag like crazy or outright freeze when scrolling
  • Some games not capturing the cursor properly (Proton)
  • Inconsistent font rendering, some fonts look fine in some apps and atrocious in others
  • Issues when resizing or moving windows, some times they "jerk" off the screen or resize to a very tiny window and I'm forced to use key combinations to resize them again
  • Random issues with window decoration not appearing in some apps but randomy appearing for things like context menus

This is on a full AMD system with Arch Linux, the latest kernel and mesa-git. I hope for KDE's sake that there's something broken in my installation because I can't believe the KDE team released Plasma 6 in this sorry state.

I haven't run KDE 6 but on Kubuntu with the last LTS 5.27 release, I don't have any of those issues also on a fully AMD system

You know, some personal anecdote here but Arch is a really shitty distro when it comes to subtle, hard to detect, system config breakage so maybe there's something wrong somewhere in the system?

Give it a try with another distro like Debian or something and see if the issues happen there

And if they do, for the love of fuck FILE BUG REPORTS! The only reason we're here today is because people who got annoyed at shit filed bug reports for it

I know, I know :)

I reported the bugs I've encountered but I don't have time to install another distro right now. I've seen some of those bugs (scaling) on the KDE neon live iso though.

I tried for a bit and it was great, no complaints. However, I was having issues getting NixOS set up as quickly as I would like, so I went back to Pop!_OS. I'm looking forward to the next release of Pop, which will have full Wayland by default.

I've been running wayland on popOS for a year now. Works great. It's already installed, you just have to into a file and either delete a line or change false to true. Takes about 2 minutes.

I've thought about making the leap, but this is a work machine so I want to make sure it's rock solid.

About a year ago I moved to Hyprland & Wayfire for my NVIDIA & Intel boxes. Moved NVIDIA to Radeon a few months back and had mixed results.

Recently tried Plasma 6 for experimental HDR and am impressed.

Yeah, I've been using it for a few years now. Not really given me any issues so I don't have any reason to use X again, but my use case is pretty basic 🤷

A couple years(ish) on intel-only laptops. I run it with KDE Plasma. I only think about it when I see a thread like this one.

For me it Just Works™. I recognize that being intel-only may be a contributing factor, and my certification of Just Works™ is not to imply dismissal of any problems others may be having. 🙂

Gsync doesn't work yet so... Not yet for me.

Also, they need to fix the load apps in last location like X has

I'm running Wayland for many months now. Yust because why not. It just works. Debian sid with gnome here.

I have been for the past month now. All of my games are now working.

Previously no and the reason was bc of Nvidia issues, but they all seem resolved now for the most part

Used it for the last few years. X just doesn't work right with multiple monitors of different resolution.

I daily drive wayland with nvidia and I play games modestly. I have Xorg installed as backup for when issues happen, but it's been pretty rare in the last couple months.

I use it with gnome on nixos without any problems AFAICT. Had the explicit sync issue with Nvidia initially but I ended up buying an rx6800 to use as the host GPU when I set up win11 with KVM. Been completely fine since.

Using Wayland with KDE Plasma 6 on Arch btw. But I installed the old NVIDIA driver 535, waiting for explicit sync in 555 to fix flickering in games.

I'll probably make the jump when Plasma 6.1 releases with their "real, fake session restore" functionality, was hoping that would make it in to Plasma 6, and I am daily driving Wayland on my laptop now, but I kinda need my programs (or at least file managers and terminal windows) to re-open the way they were between reboots.

Thanks to kscreen-doctor, I've been able to port most of my desktop scripts that I use for managing my multiple monitors to work on Wayland, and krdc/krfb have been a decent enough replacement for x11vnc or x2go for accessing the desktop on my home server/NAS remotely (I know, desktops on servers are considered sacrilege, but for me it's been useful too many times to get rid of at this point).

Where Wayland currently shines for me is VR, Steam VR works better, and more consistently on Plasma Wayland than X11 at this point, which is probably more of a Valve thing than a Wayland thing. When I first got my Index, X11 worked fine, but there have been times when Steam VR on Linux being "broken" has made the news on Phoronix/Gaming on Linux, but still worked fine on Plasma Wayland (which seems to be where Valve is doing most of their SteamVR Linux testing as of late).

As an end user, I do wish that the Wayland specification was organized better, because as an outsider, it seems a lot of the bickering that goes on has more to do with everyone having different end goals. I think if they would split out the different styles of window management to have their own sub-specs or extensions and then figure out what of that could be moved into the core after everyone has built what they need would be better than their current approach of compromising their way through every little decision that doesn't always make sense for every use case. Work together when it makes sense, but understand that there are times when that doesn't make sense, and sometimes you can't please every stick in the mud, and are going to have to do your own thing without them. I do get the appeal of doing things right the first time too though, even if it takes more time. But it seems like usability is always the thing that gets sacrificed when compromises are made.

I would like to, but I'm running Arch with Cinnamon, and that desktop environment only has an experimental version of Wayland implemented. I've tried it, and it's too buggy to be used as a daily driver.

Same here, except on Mint. Once it becomes stable with Cinnamon I'll be happy to use it.

I've been dailying it on my desktop for a couple of years now (I want to say since 2022 but I forget exactly... there was a Plasma release where a certain feature finally became realised on Wayland and I switched then). Been running on my laptop for much longer, where I use GNOME. It's been great, but I don't have any Nvidia hardware.

Whenever Nobara moves to KDE 6, I'll probs switch over to Wayland. Likely sometime this year.

It is already using plasma 6 since a few weeks back, or am I miss interpreting something?

I use Wayland since I got a second monitor, since X can't handle mixed DPI. I'd use X otherwise, since global hotkeys work there

Global hotkeys work in kde wayland and hyprland!

Since I mostly run Debian with KDE, I've been using it a lot since KWin is on its stable repo.

First time I really use it is on Gentoo, which exclusively runs Plasma. Since it's rolling-release, it didn't take too long to be available.

I've been moving this build from one computer to another, they all work fine. Currently it's on a Thinkpad W530. Got some problems with multi-monitor that never happen under X11. Thankfully after I replace the firmware with coreboot, and opted for dGPU only, I never encountered any issue.

Currently, what keeps me from fully ditching X11 on KDE is the buggy SDDM support.

On the other hand, I've been using Linux Mint on my work PC. As you may have known, neither Cinnamon and XFCE has it at the moment.

I have for more than a year. I've never had a single problem, but I'm on an all AMD system.

I'm on AMD, so I've been on Wayland since around 2021. Haven't really experienced any issues.

I've been using Wayland since the end of last year, I haven't done any real benchmarking but games run about the same for me on either.

Ye, since Plasma 5.24 I think. Used to occasionally switch to X11 for competitive gaming, but as of Plasma 6 their Wayland compositor supports fullscreen tearing, so now I have no need to use X11 anymore

I have a laptop with integrated Intel graphics and a desktop with Nvidia graphics. I use Wayland on the former right now as of KDE 6. I have noticed some odd behaviors, but overall it has been fine. The latter, however, just boots to a black screen. I have neither the time nor the desire to debug that right now, so I will adopt Wayland on that machine when it works with Nvidia to a reasonable degree of stability.

I've been using Sway for over 2 years, and for my workflow it works well, with one exception I just can't get vscode to scale properly for my display.

Got hyprland running on the macbook, have tested it out on desktop. Not quite the daily driver, plasma 6 on X is still the norm there, but I think as soon as synergy works in Wayland I’ll make the switch everywhere

Plasma 6 fixed a lot of issues I had with Wayland, mostly multi monitor, but I've been using it since steam on X11 would cause your entire desktop environment to freeze up consistently every time. I read it was because steam was constantly pinging your display ports to see if there was another monitor connected, but I don't know how true that is. Moving to Wayland fixed that probably because of xwayland

I've been daily driving it on some devices for maybe 6 months.

My only showstopper was input-leap, but I have not had to use it for two months. So I've gone all-in since. It works better in every sense - except for the input-leap thing.

input-leap

this software has wayland support already https://github.com/input-leap/input-leap/issues/109

Cool.

Last I checked kwin was still waiting for some protocols to become available. I'm sure it'll be good to go if and when I need another Mac on my desk to synergize.

There was another server that already supported wayland/gnome, but the scrolling was too wonky for my nerves.

Yes, though "since when" depends on the machine. My last machine to switch over was one with an NVIDIA GPU a couple of months ago.

I could switch tomorrow if I could do my current setup:

  • Tiling Window manager (sway?)
  • simple status bar to output text from a script with clickable applet icons (waybar?)
  • the way to show/hide windows on a button press - I have a script that I use to quickly toggle 3 dropdown terminal windows

Last time I tried Wayland in December, I had issues with waybar not supporting clicking tray applet icons. Also I've ported my dropdown terminals script to support sway - and it worked half the time, like, literally every second key press was ignored.

On one hand I have X session that currently has no downsides for me, on other - wayland that has no upsides. Tell me, why would I switch?

Message me on matrix if you want help setting all of that up, but waybar absolutely supports clicking tray icons.

You should switch if you value any of the following:

  1. Security

a. Any x11 client can record your screen without notifying you

b. Any x11 client can record all of your keystrokes without notifying you

  1. Better configuration

a. Tighter integration with input/output configuration, which results in things like per-input settings are very difficult to do on X11, I have a mouse that only works on one screen and another mouse that works on all my screens, which makes it so that I can have my TV pointed away from my desktop and use a wireless mouse and never lose the position of my cursor while still keeping my other displays active, for example

b. You can't modify mouse sensitivity on x11 (except in a hacky way with acceleration)

c. After switching to sway I just noticed so many hacks that I configured went away.

  1. Significantly better rendering

a. x11 can't support monitors with mixed refresh rates because how it handles rendering is fundamentally flawed

b. on x11 most animations are fundamentally broken (try resizing) because of how rendering is handled, check out the animations on hyprland and how smooth they are, that's not something that can be done on x11 for a low performance overhead

c. so many scaling problems, native wayland apps work perfectly in this regard nowadays.

  1. color management/HDR

Ok, because of this post - I decided to bite the bullet and try wayland again. And it was much better experience this time:

I've installed sway "pattern" on OpenSuse-Tumbleweed and:

  • Previous time I had some issues with lightdm not supporting sway, now - it just works.
  • I still use xdotool and i3-msg in my custom scratchpad script and yet everything is working.

waybar absolutely supports clicking tray icons.

I confused it with swaybar, that's installed with sway by default and should be an i3bar-compatible. Waybar doesn't seem to support i3bar protocol, but anyway, after I configured it - it's like 95% there from what I want.

  • I had to force xcb platform for appimage of nekoray (qt VPN gui), because it's complaining about missing wayland-egl plugin. But it's a small problem with straightforward fix, so not that bad.

I use Wayland on my laptop running fedora 39 kde spin and it mostly runs fine. When I browse gifs in discord the screen flashes white and I can't maximize jellyfin on connected TVs but other than that no major issues.

Every update of plasma I switch to Wayland so far my record is 1 week before running into a deal breaker issue.

Though Plasma six is so close to working for me. The only issues I'm getting on wayland is flickering in games, an issue where some windows don't show up on the task bar, awful screen tearing when using two monitors of different resolutions, keyboard lag.

Same here. I'm on garuda dragonized, and tried out Wayland for a few days and everything you mentioned happened to me. Throw in some mouse focus issues for extra fun!

KDE Wayland is an epilepsy inducing flickerfest with my Nvidia GPU, so it's off limits until they fix it. Games usually run fine on X11, but one exception I noticed is Noita, it runs like crap on X11, and runs great on Wayland for some reason.

A year-ish, Plasma, Intel iGPU for Desktop and Nvidia offload for Steam. It's great.

I had it on a test system and Chrome/Chromium wasn't happy. Slow af. Dunno if it had an impact on Firefox, but that used a lot of RAM and was very slow when sharing the screen.

At least Waydroid worked flawlessly 👍

For now, I'm back on X11 where I game. I'll just wait for it come by default on major distros ("stable"), wait a little longer (stable for real) and then switch once nothing on my system needs "XWayland" or whatever. wine does AFAIK, so at least due to that, no Wayland for me.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

Chromium and Firefox work perfectly on Wayland. Minor issues like de-coupling tabs or something are made a bit differently, but thats cosmetic.

Great that it works perfectly for you 👍 For me, it doesn't.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

Yeah thats not usual behavior and your system is likely broken

Ah, the good old "works on my machine" 👍 Nothing but a good expression of disregard of other people's problems.

Principal Skinner: Is there a problem with Wayland and Chrome/Chromium/Firefox for some people? Nah, their system is broken

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

If you give me more details maybe I can say something else :D

At least on Fedora, official tarball (firefox and firefox-bin), Fedora Firefox, Librewolf RPM, Librewolf Flatpak, Firefox Flatpak, torbrowser flatpak, Thunderbird flatpak, selfbuilt Firefox nightly, Chromium RPM, Chromium Flatpak and Brave RPM all work flawlessly when it comes to Wayland.

I will daily drive Wayland when it becomes Xorg function equivalent e.g. functional screen capture and overlays like every other OS (so never)

nah man, gotta be more specific. When those stuff work on every application.

A screen reader protocol for blind people that requires the app to be recompiled and opt-in to being accessible to accessibility tools, is not a replacement for one that worked for every application. Old apps will become impossible to use for some people with accessibility issues. Though wayland fanboys would tell you to shut up and be happy that a protocol exists, while failing to acknowledge that the protocol is literally fucking useless by design.

Yeah. Wayland is a nightmare of accessibility and as someone privileged to be able-bodied it can be tragically easy to forget.

Hopefully this Wayland fad goes away and we have a better protocol designed from scratch soon.

Why not just make a new protocol for what you need, rather than throwing out everything?

Why even make Wayland in the first place? Why make a protocol that is worse in every way than it's predecessor?

It's better in just about every way, objectively, I don't really know what you're talking about here.

You have one issue, accessibility, what other flaws do you see with the wayland protocol?

Why do you think it is that none of the people who worked on the X protocol would agree with you that wayland is worse in any way?

What specifically do you think is worse?

Why do you think literally every single desktop project is switching to wayland with no plans of implementing a different protocol, ever?

I feel like your version of reality is completely imaginary.

here's some things that will never be fixable in x.org

  1. Recording all of your activity is extremely easy for a malicious program
  2. Multiple displays with mixed refresh rates that aren't clean multiples of eachother
  3. Color management/hdr
  4. Rendering (try resizing something and notice all the garbled nonsense)
  5. Proper scaling support

There's more.

I didn't even point out accessibility? That was a different user. You can't even read bro talk about imagining and then spitting garbled nonsense. Go back and read everything and then I might reply seriously.

I've not seen Wayland ever outside of this subreddit 🤣

I'm sure distro of the month somewhere prolly implemented it but us Debian chads stay winning.

I swear this is a psyop to kill of desktop Linux. Come back when screenshotting works correctly 👌

Debian has implemented it. Screenshotting has worked perfectly for years, maybe half a decade at this point.

edit: I just checked, screenshotting has been working since 2015 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/1

Debian has been using wayland by default on gnome since 2019.

This is an impressive level of confidence for someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

Also, seeing as you're the guy who doesn't even have accessibility problems, that means you have... no problems.

Remind me again, what is so bad about wayland?

since 2015

Why did it ever not work?

Oh it's because the protocol forbids apps accessing the output of other apps without special support for it, so unless apps manually include support for Wayland, it will not work.

With many apps that don't even do anything related to screenshotting or overlays - like Guake - it still does not work.

So most of my usual workflow is just broken by Wayland, productivity utterly shattered by some middleware crap and for what? Why?

Why? Why must the graphical protocol of all things break random software incl. accessibility, overlays etc.? No other OS has ever had this issue. No other OS finds it a security concern to allow apps to see other apps.

The only reason Wayland does is because it's just terribly designed from its very conception despite the constant warnings from other Devs and users.

Oh and then there's the Nvidia driver support...

Look at what they did with PulseAudio - now that's the right way to do it, users don't even know the difference except suddenly everything just works a bit better.

default

Ye I know that, this isn't the own you think it is as the GNOME Devs lost their mind long ago in many other ways as well.

Oh it’s because the protocol forbids apps accessing the output of other apps without special support for it, so unless apps manually include support for Wayland, it will not work.

It's no more special than what they had to do to support X...

With many apps that don’t even do anything related to screenshotting or overlays - like Guake - it still does not work.

Actually guake already works perfectly.

So most of my usual workflow is just broken by Wayland, productivity utterly shattered by some middleware crap and for what? Why?

Security, proper rendering, mixed refresh rate displays, color management, HDR, no more insane hacks, I could go on. Also, you can't actually name a way in which your productivity is actually affected.

Why? Why must the graphical protocol of all things break random software incl. accessibility, overlays etc.? No other OS has ever had this issue. No other OS finds it a security concern to allow apps to see other apps.

Other OS's DO have this issue, you have no idea the things macos has enforced, and we have backwards compatibility using xwayland, being forced to update to a new standard IS normal for operating systems, linux just delayed it for as long as possible. The problems with X11 are MUCH more vast than the problems other operating systems have.

The only reason Wayland does is because it’s just terribly designed from its very conception despite the constant warnings from other Devs and users.

Name one actual problem with the design.

Oh and then there’s the Nvidia driver support…

That's 100% nvidia's fault and almost completely resolved

Look at what they did with PulseAudio - now that’s the right way to do it, users don’t even know the difference except suddenly everything just works a bit better.

That wouldn't have worked with X11 at all, because x11 is so fundamentally broken that making a successor to X is completely actually impossible, there's a reason all the X11 devs which you believe are so brilliant for making x11 decided to switch to developing wayland, and decided that what you want is actually completely impossible while making an actually well designed desktop. Please actually look into the history of this. The people who actually know how X11 works, refuse to work on it, and for very good reason. If what you were saying was true, there would be an X12 project in the works... but there is not, because it is fundamentally awful.

Ye I know that, this isn’t the own you think it is as the GNOME Devs lost their mind long ago in many other ways as well.

It's also the default on KDE now, also, I don't understand why you seem to believe they should've rushed this out, what they did was correct, x11 wasn't going anywhere, you can still use X11, the point of wayland was to redesign things from the ground up to be as perfect as possible, and they're (slowly) achieving exactly that.

Use x11 if any of your usecases aren't met by wayland, it's not like they deleted it. But wayland is the future. They were right to make it partially non-backwards compatible, they needed to restart from scratch.

You can't really spam massive essays while ignoring most of what was said or pretending it's not true. When referring to GNOME Devs losing their mind I was talking about the design decisions of nu-Gnome, and you just went off talking about something being rushed?

mac os

Yeah great example to follow /s

Honestly I'm happy to give Wayland a chance when it starts working with software like Guake, but as it stands, it does not, based on currently stable versions of both from the Debian repos. Until then, it's just a useless protocol made with extremely anal design of requiring apps to be heavily modified to support it for uhmmm no reason as the issues with xorg are minimal really.

Guake works perfectly if the global shortcuts protocol has been implemented, and even if it isn't it only takes a minute to setup

is that your only thing?

I can show you how to set it up if you'd like, it's incredibly easy