Tldr: Remote desktop, Cortana, camera, people app are all getting uninstall buttons.
"uninstalled" ... til the first automatic update 🙃
HI! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm skype!
"Are you suuuuure you don't want to use Edge? Are you suuuuure you don't want it to be the default handler for .pdf and .svg files? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Just in case, we'll pin it to your start menu again and put a shortcut to it on your desktop. Just until you're sure."
Apple's starting to get more and more into this. Safari pesters you and nobody wants NEWS/Stocks/AppleTv App, Weather, etc. But you can't uninstall them :(
I was able to uninstall all of the apps you just mentioned on iPhone just to cure my curiosity.
Which Apple device is not letting you uninstall those apps?
I got so annoyed with the fucking shortcut reappearing that I put it in one corner of one monitor that I hardly look at so it never appears on my main desktop monitor.
It will be an “essential” part of the OS, like Edge Internet Explorer 4.
Just like Cortana, however, there will be a way to disable it via Group Policy somehow. That's because government institutions that use Windows will not be happy with there being a feature in the OS that is capable of listening to a microphone and transmitting what it hears to a third party. I know Cortana can take voice commands, and I'd doubt their AI thingy will be much different in the user facing implementation.
Which is also when they regularly try and get you to mistakenly click a button to make Edge your default browser. Scummy dark patterns.
I never got unwanted stuff back after update.
Its seemed... better lately. But I used to get skype back every single update when 11 first came out.
They also fuck with privacy settings too on uodate...
Switched to Linux after that shit.
I don't know about Windows 11, but my Windows 10 instance also reverts my "fast startup" setting on every major update. I know this, because my PC's motherboard does not work with "fast" startup and instead takes about half an hour to get from POST to desktop when it's enabled. Suffice to say that I know when Microsoft changes this setting behind my back. I have it disabled for a reason, fuckheads.
Why remote desktop? I can understand the rest. But who uninstalls default apps and doesn't use remote desktop?
Very few people use remote desktop.
Very few people bother removing all the default apps in the first place.
The type of high caliber nerd to care about a pre installed app that sits dormant and uses a few MB of storage probably already uses remote desktop often enough they'd want to keep it.
It sure took them a while, but they seem to finally allow folks to personalize their experience. I'm not going to complain about it, though – this is definitely a good change.
Not far enough. It'd be lovely if I could scale Windows down to almost 7 gigs or so (what windows 10 is, probably should be lower) But the thing is Windows in general is just a bloated piece of crap that continues to grow.
Maybe someday they'll discover checkboxes and use them to not have to install these apps in the first place.
"What's a checkbox? Oh, you mean that thing we use to trick users into 'consenting' to telemetry?"
I think I've got it! So on install, we make a checkbox that says:
do not install web search in the start menu, but also I consent to Microsoft collecting creepy levels of data about me
Wait, so of the five apps they will "let" you uninstall now, one makes little sense to have in the consumer edition (remote desktop - which is effectively enabled in Pro only) and one is getting deprecated (Cortana - bye bye!).
The remote desktop they are talking about is the client app used to connect to remote systems.
The remote desktop feature that's limited to Pro is the ability for the system to receive remote connections.
The more steam deck and proton get games working on linux, the less need I have for this bloated windows.
It's truly ridiculous how much Linux gaming leapfrogged with the Steam Deck. I'm contemplating installing a debian partition for my main PC since I don't really play a lot of games that need anti-cheat.
The madlads really did it.
I've been gaming on Tumbleweed now for a month and my issues are minor enough that a tweak or two gets me flawless performance - and that's if there's an issue. Highly recommend embracing the penguin, comrades.
I installed Fedora on a seperate SSD, and I now dual-boot alongside Windows 11. It took a bit of time and tweaking until I felt comfortable with using Fedora as my daily driver, but it's been great.
Everything is smooth and fast, and I have all the apps I need. Well, almost. I subscribe to Game Pass, and have a couple of Steam games that don't run on Linux, so I have to boot into Windows when I want to play those games. Other than that, it's all great.
Yeah gamers are 95% good to switch.
Gamers and microshit have incompetiable values.
If devs started making anticheat for Linux it would get closer.
If they stopped making launchers it would be easier too.
how do i game on linux without a steam deck? (for windows games)
Is really just:
Install any Linux Distro
See if you have the drivers for your hardware already installed
Install Steam
Change the setting for Enable Steam Play on Steam
Download the game and play it.
Of course, like in windows, something could go wrong and you need to tinker a little bit to fix it but for the vast majority is just like that.
Yeah for both Ubuntu and Arch on two separate computers in my house, the process was just install the distro then install steam + Lutris (steam for steam games, Lutris for every other kind of game like League or WoW).
Installing steam games is identical in Linux and Windows for the vast majority of games. Installing non-steam games is arguably easier since you never have to go to a web browser.
Honestly the only reason Windows is "easier" is because it's preinstalled on computers. As someone who has fresh installed Linux and Windows, Linux is miles easier to install. To install Windows 11 I tried following their recommendations (enabling TPM and secure boot in bios), but the W11 installer still didn't like my 2 year old computer, so had to open up the command prompt, regedit, and add 3 Bypass registry DWord 32 bit values. Then actually installing the O.S you just sit there and wait with an unusable computer. Linux installations have nice GUIs that are far more modern, don't require weird terminal hacks, and you have a usable computer while it's installing (you can open up Firefox and browse the web for example).
\rant
Man some time ago I had to install Win 11 on a laptop for my relative and nothing that I tried worked.
I give up for a time and installed Zorin OS just to see how the distro looks like and of course no problems during installation. Later I tried again the Win 11 and the Zorin installation fixed whatever problem windows had with the driver.
Why are you installing w11 though?
Every year or two I give Windows a genuine try for around a month. WSL2 is actually pretty decent, it's a massive improvement on the Windows development experience I had back in 2015 when I tried running Windows full time doing Python/Ruby/Java development. Required cygwin, git bash, power shell, and cmd depending on what I was doing. It was a special kind of nightmare. Lots of native gems couldn't compile, lots of tooling issues, etc.
Now you can use exclusively Windows terminal, keep essentially all your development stuff in a Linux subsystem, and pretend you're in Linux. Integration with things like vscode or intellij is quite decent with the WSL.
That said, I hate Microsoft, hate the lack of customization, hate the default UI, hate the split between Windows 95-style settings and new Windows 10+, it's inconsistent as hell. Moving windows across monitors with different scaling still resizes the windows in a very archaic way. You can't reasonably use multiple desktops because you can't easily rebind keys to swap desktops without third party software. I've changed DEs in Linux for smaller issues than these.
Just adding: if you have an AMD GPU, the drivers are now included in the Linux kernel, so there is no manual install needed for those. For nvidia, you do still have to jump through some install hoops.
The easiest way is to install Steam on your Linux distribution of choice. Next you activate steam play in the steam settings to use the proton compability tool which allows playing windows games on Linux. You can check ProtonDB to see how well your game should work and see if tinkering or additional settings might be needed. A lot of steam games will just work. If you don't want to use steam, you can also try Lutris or Wine directly, but this approach will need ALOT more setting up and tinkering.
Linux gaming will sometimes cost you more effort but I think it's worth it to get away from Microsoft and have my freedom to set up my system how I like. Feel free to ask if you have more questions.
Been a Linux-only gamer for a year now. The hype is real and PC gaming has changed forever. Most people just hesitate to actually leave Windows behind, but the grass on the other side is much, much greener.
I made the switch and everything I want to play works. Some of it needed a bit of tweaking, though. Luckily instructions exist, and some began working with new Proton updates. It's a good time to be a gamer on Linux.
I'm all for less bloat ware, but come one. The camera app or remote desktop are the least shitty ones. Its borderline to call them even bloatware.
To be clear, they seem to be saying that those apps will still be preinstalled. They'll just be easier to uninstall if you want to do so.
"option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client. "
I thought they dropped support for Cortana. Is she back (maybe as "The Weapon")?
Yeah, having the option is not a bad thing. Nothing changes for those who use the apps or want them there, but it lets people remove them if that's what they want.
My issue is the Solitaire and games. We have Win11 for Business (Switching to Enterprise soon) and I have to run a powershell script during Intune/oobe to rip out all the bloat.
But Windows always came with Solitaire - even 30+ years ago. It was included originally to teach users how to use a mouse. Solitaire makes you click, double click and drag.
Removing Solitaire caused its own backlash. They can't win with that one.
Windows 11 ships with a shitty featureless version of the remote desktop client. You have to download the "real" or "full" version from the Windows app store.
I found this out incidentally a few weeks ago and it is annoying having the app you need and some random imposter app with the same name clogging up search / start menu.
I mean I’ve never used either of those apps and my computer doesn’t even have a camera.
Sounds like textbook bloatware to me… 🤷♀️
"if I don't use it, it's useless"
Bloatware doesn’t necessarily mean it’s useless, but if even a reasonable percent of people don’t want or need it or shouldn’t be preinstalled. That’s bloatware.
For bloatware to be a meaningful term, I think it needs to go beyond just some arbitrary percent of users don't need or use it. For an OS, having baseline apps which are useful across a wide variety of hardware setups and use cases is reasonable, even if they don't apply in your particular situation. Bloat would be superfluous apps that replicate baseline features or baseline apps that have grown in scope beyond what's strictly necessary.
Let's cut the crap: it's not that they "realized" nobody wants it -- it's that they've come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
Do you think titles like that are a result of a severely myopic mind, unable to even comprehend why a corporation would willingly do something that their users dislike, or just clickbait?
I think it's a soft heading - they could be more honest and blunt, but a history of reporting like that may jeopardize any relationship they might have with Microsoft - with regards to press releases or advertising money and stuff like that.
I don't find it plausible that the people at pcmag, who's reported in this domain for a long time, can't see past such light corporate fuckery.
The title suggests that Microsoft has come to a conclusion that nobody wants their inbox apps, which is not the case according to the contents of the article. This title would have been true if Microsoft had come with a statement saying that "according to user feedback blabla we have decided to add the uninstall option". The reason might as well have been technical but this is yet to be disclosed. The term bloatware can also be seen as subjective as we normally define software that we personally don't have any usage of as bloat, the fact that nobody will uses it is highly unlikely. So I would say that the title of this article is misleading and quite opinionated, most likely because the author is upset about the bloat in the Windows OS he is experiencing.
Im running Windows 11 on my new laptop. Every major update it's like:
PLZ LET EDGE BE UR BROWSER
BRO PLZ, OFFICE SUBSCRIPTION
LOCATION?
Let me just install tiktok and FB apps.
My laptop officially supports Ubuntu, think I might make the switch full time. I don't game on my laptop and most of it's use is browser, plex and emails...
First off love the way you described them. Secondly, it reminds me of how microsoft keeps trying to charge my empty fake credit card I use for Xbox game pass. (You need to put a credit card to get any free month so I use a dummy). I get an email when they charge it literally twice a week like PLEASE JUST A SCRAP OF MONEY
Realized?? They knew all the time, and didn't give a shit.
It's more likely that they have pushed too far, and users are pushing back. They will dial it back a bit, and hope people forget.
They'll just wait until more people migrate to 11, then push their shit again, because then users won't have as much energy to give M$ the finger
Yup 99,9% bait and switch
That, and stop dumbing down the UI. Gradeschoolers in 1999 could operate windows, it doesn't need to get dumber
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Boomers are still struggling even with the modern, simplified UI. They would likely continue to struggle if we had Idiocracy style UI on things (big, bright colored buttons with pictures of what they do).
I know it's fun to rag our boomer parents and grandparents but it was boomers who designed the older, "complex" UI for usage by other boomers. Since boomers are now dropping out of the workforce (25% of it right now) it seems likely that the UI is being dumbed down for the much larger Gen-X/Millennial/Gen Z workforce.
Yeah, there's now a lot of people who have actually never used a desktop OS, and the only OS they've used being a phone or tablet. Those people are more having an influence on dumbing down the OS now. It's pretty crazy how compute illiterate newer generations have become due to shift in what is considered their primary OS. Some people don't even have laptop or desktops.
I see both kinds of Boomers. My dad, a boomer, is in the tech industry. He is a software engineer. My grandpa was also a software engineer. Everyone I know from his side of the family has been in tech.
And then there is every boomer I know that isn't my own family and they are practically luddites. I know the former can exist. But it seems rare.
Apparently a large portion of the population, regardless of generation, proudly announces their tech illiteracy. I'm IT, and these people don't even remember their personal email passwords.
LoL, tell that to every fucking child and teenager who have been using an iPhone, iPad and MacOS for all their lives. It's unbelievable how stupid you can get when you're locked into a walled garden and the OS you're using is designed for three year olds. I have a buddy who's mainly a Mac and iPhone guy, and I fuck you not, he doesn't know how to use anything else. He'll just stare at the screen and simply don't understand what to do.
Agreed. I have been working so hard to get my young kids to understand file systems, directory structures, keyboard shortcuts, etc; all that stuff that just never gets learned anymore with all the iOS/Android interactions.
I’m building a new PC for myself in the next few weeks and if they want to continue playing Genshin/Starcraft2/BeamNG/Trackmania on my older PC as it becomes the “Family PC” they will need to sit with me and learn how to reassemble it, install Windows, attaching peripherals, and setup a few basic things.
That’s the price and that’s the reward.
Many of us grew up in a world where you had to figure this shit out or simply not have a working computer/piece of software.
1999 gradeschoolers not today's Gradeschoolers with win98
They've always realized, they've just never cared.
They did care, they just cared about the money instead.
Yeah what a weird title, they know exactly what they are doing.
Using Windows primarily for gaming, I eventually got tired of some of the issues I had with it (ads appearing in the start menu). I gave Linux a try and it was so so for a while. I kept going back and forth but it's been 2 years now and I haven't had Windows installed and can play 90% of my games without issue. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. But for those that primarily use their computer for gaming and non-windows specific applications (like web browsing or other various things), Linux is offering some competition for desktop people.
linux seems to work pretty well until it doesnt and then it really doesnt work. seems that there's still some hardware incompatibility issues
That's why I stopped using it at home (apart from stuff like like NAS, routers, etc).
This was a few years ago so perhaps it's been addressed now. I installed Ubuntu and downloaded Steam to install. It wouldn't. I can't remember exactly why but I had to find answers online and quickly gave up.
I turned that laptop on over a year later and Ubuntu was out of date and needed upgrading. It couldn't install the latest version because it needed to upgrade to versions in between, some of which have been moved to archive. I installed Windows 10 instead.
I'm responsible for a couple of Linux servers at work so I'm sure I could have addressed these issues at home, but I really couldn't be bothered when I have better things to spend my time on. I just wanted a working Laptop that gets used occasionally.
(Genuinely asking--I've been considering the switch.)
Some games use kernel-level anticheat. Unfortunately, because there is a kernel driver involved, it must be specifically ported to Linux, and some developers simply don't want to bother.
It's mostly going to be games that use anti-cheat software (though some work on Linux.)
So if you're someone who likes to bounce around to the hot new competitive online multiplayer title then Linux probably wont serve your needs right now. If you can't think of a single esports title you want to play, once you install Steam and Lutris you'll probably find nearly everything you want to play works.
That's awesome news for me then, I hate PVP. Mostly do RPG stuff and things like Crusader Kings III, Rimworld, Stellaris, etc.
Are you (or anyone else) aware of how things like No Man's Sky might run, or the new Baldur's Gate, or (if anyone can make a guess) Starfield?
I run No Man's Sky on Nobara Linux, installed it on my old laptop that barely gets by on Windows. Really breathed new life into it and I haven't had troubles.
Just installed it on steam after checking the box for proton compatibility. You might need to run a task kill command if it gets stuck in a DirectX install loop on launch but other than that it's been smooth sailing for me.
I can say offhand that No Man's Sky put a lot of extra time and effort into their Steam Deck support so that definitely works. Otherwise your best bet is to check either the Steam listing for a game (check the Deck Verified rating. Anything rated "playable" or "verified" should work pretty seemlesly on any Linux gamingPC) or https://www.protondb.com/ (a user run listing of the compatibility of different games. A good resource and often has some troubleshooting advice. Unfortunately it can often have outdated or just inaccurate information as it's all based on user reports. Still usually a pretty good indication of compatibility.) There's no indication on either regarding Starfield compatibility. Given that it's probably too resource intensive for the Deck it may not get as much special attention from Valve as something like Elden Ring (which ran better on Linux than any other platform after it was out for a few days and Valve had added a patch to Proton to fix an issue that the developers took longer to patch in the game itself.) Chances are pretty good it'll work though (assuming your hardware can run it.) The Steam page for Baldur's Gate 3 says it's Steam Deck Verified so it'll just work so long as you launch it through Steam. Here's the protondb page for reference https://www.protondb.com/app/1086940 . Crusader Kings III, Rimworld and Stellaris apparently all have native Linux ports so, while you may find reasons to prefer running the Windows versions with Proton, you don't actually need to check for any special compatibility. They just are Linux games.
It really sounds like I've been sleeping on recent Linux compatibility then. I remember back in the days of Wine it seemed more a PITA than was worth it.
Thanks so much for the in-depth response!
Yeah Steam/Proton and other tools like Lutris make it so you don't really even have to touch Wine for most stuff, it's all taken care of for you. Gaming on Linux has come a long, long way in the last few years.
Well, Proton is a patched Wine. Nowdays many games support Linux natively.
BG 3 runs on the Steam deck, mostly without issues (except for those that aren't Linux related, like text being hard to read due to the small display and lower frame rate due to the portable hardware).
Mostly games with anticheat or very new games. Everything else pretty much just works especially older games. I needed to visit pcgamingwiki all the time to get older games to work on windows but for linux I mostly just visit protondb and find out I don't need to do anything or need to just put in launch command. System shock 1 was the only game I had to actually go through a process to get it running with audio.
Games using Easy CheatEngine (or something like it)
EAC (Easy AntiCheat) works just fine on Linux as long as the developer enables it. There are very few anti-cheats that don't work anymore. The ones that aren't as big like Vanguard, which is Valorant's anti-cheat, don't work, but Battleye, EAC, and VAC works just fine.
The biggest one I miss, and it works, but the anti-cheat keeps me from my favorite servers is anything from the Red Orchestra series. I really enjoy their newer game Rising Storm 2 but the vast majority of the servers are protected with an anti-cheat that keeps me from joining. I've found a couple servers that don't use the anti-cheat and I can play on those, but they're not quite the same as some of the servers I have as favorites that are playable on Windows. Otherwise, most things generally work good, biggest problem is with launchers, and even those can be bypassed or fixed, but I've gotten to the point in my life where I just want things to work without having to remember what config files I've changed or futz with that may break in the future. The other games that I've had that don't work may as well now, but honestly I've forgotten what they were. One that I don't play, that I know a lot of people do is Destiny and I saw that they'll ban you if you try on Linux. But I've only heard that as I haven't played that on PC.
I would but the only thing holding me back is the lack of HDR support in Linux. Windows 11 is currently the only desktop OS to implement it properly (10's HDR is a joke), so I'm stuck with it
Great point. I still don't have an HDR monitor but that could be nice. Plus, if everything's working for you no need to switch it up! It's great that Microsoft is adding the ability to remove some of the programs a lot of people don't / wont use without having to copy and paste powershell commands. I remember there were some scripts / instructions on how to uninstall what would otherwise be uninstallable programs by opening a powershell as an administrator. I don't have anything against Windows, I just got tired of having so many ads put into my start menu and ads in the weather widget they added to the task bar after I paid $100+ for the OS way back when. But I'm not sure how their handling the "price" of Windows now.
The ads in Windows 11 are a dogshit feature, but you can turn them off in the settings.
Yea I've always found that complaint odd. I just assumed everyone who makes it also has the activate windows watermark, and thus can't access the option.
a beta build of Windows 11 in the Canary Channel includes the option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client.
Still no Microsoft edge though...
No longer providing a browser with a consumer operating system is a bad idea. How would you install another browser?
They just need to stop plugging and advertising it so relentlessly.
The package manag- oh it's windows right
It has built in package manager now (winget install Mozilla.Firefox would install Firefox on clean Win11 installation).
Sure it's okay they come with a browser, but you should be able to uninstall edge after you've downloaded another browser
That's the Windows 95 lawsuit all over again. They forced internet explorer on people, got sued for creating & exploiting a monopoly, lost, and had to offer people the chance to remove it.
They claimed it's integral part of the OS, and so were forced to un-integrate it.
I'm sure they will find a way to give users a choice to get rid of Edge, if they really wanted to were forced yet again.
It's the integrated AI spying on you that is real concern
#everythingisainow
Wait: They are saying you can remove the Remote Desktop client? You mean the client you cannot use to connect to a Windows Home license because you cannot run remote desktop without a higher license?
Interesting flex there Microsoft.
feels like a bit of a strawman.
arguing that you can't use the client without the license for the server... on the same machine, is silly. There's tons of utility with the client even if you don't have the server license locally, especially if you ever use the Remote Desktop Client remotely.
If I could also get the ability to disable internet search results from the start menu that'd be great. So sick of looking for a file or app, hitting enter a second too soon, and having Edge slowly eat my resources to display a Bing search result that I never wanted.
But yeah, I've recently fully migrated to Linux and can run Windows in a virtual machine if I ever need it for work. In setting that up, it made me realize just how much junk and telemetry is included by default in Windows 11 and how sluggishly it runs compared to Linux.
I'm a CG artist and I dual boot Fedora on my workstation and run it on my file/license server. I'm very familiar with Linux and it's great for a lot of things.
A ton of my software runs much better than on windows and I would stay in it if I could, but unfortunately I have software needs that don't run on Linux and can't work in a VM in full capacity.
Good, maybe in two or three more years Windows 11 will be useable. Right on time for Windows 12 to roll out and drag Microsoft users back to the Stone Age again.
They always knew. When the time comes they'll force everything back with even more bloatware and even less freedom to choose because that's the corpo way. This is just another long-term power grab.
Yeah agreed. They've been pushing this (and losing) since the days of Windows phone. We don't want the phone and we don't want the apps.
Windows 11 Pro, now with NOTHING installed. Windows 11 Pro plus, now with firefox pre-installed so you can clame your system never had edge on it!
What about one drive and edge?? Last time I had to do updates on the SOs computer I told her I'm switching her to Linux as soon as gaming just gets a little more stable (she plays halo infinite, which sometimes isn't that polished on Linux)
every few reboots it asks me to install it and it's really fucking annoying and I have a feeling I'm not going to have a choice at some point. my wife installed it accidentally and now she's fucked. the thing fucking sucks.
wife installed it accidentally and now she’s fucked
Do you guys have kids by any chance? If so, that means MS is a mother fucker.
no i think children are disgusting
I was wondering why I kept getting that on my work computer. I don't mind windows 11, I think it looks nice. But man that shit is annoying.
it's very annoying and in my opinion an extremely unethical way to market your product
So much drama. Anyone still using Windows must not dislike the behavior enough to switch.
I've used Linux for over 10 years now because I disliked this Microsoft culture even back then with Windows 8 or whatever it was back then. Why are people still using Windows today when Linux is easier than ever?
Windows 7 was a good OS, it tended to not spy on the user. You can see the difference in installation options if you put it into a virtual machine and run it. Compare with today's windows.
Then compare Linux distros 10 years ago with current ones. Only gotten easier to use and much better looking.
Because Linux is Niche. It doesn't as far as I know come pre installed at the store when you buy a computer. Etc. That's why people still use Windows.
I personally don't find anything wrong with Windows. I use it for work and home and it's fine.
How do you know if somebody has Linux on their desktop?… They'll tell you. I'm currently on Windows 10 Pro but have used a number of different Linux distros since the mid-90s. I also had to have Windows because of work requirements but now that I'm retired, I may go back to Debian or Kali.
Windows user here, have used Linux here and there too:
Gaming. It's gaming. Yes, Linux has workarounds and options, and some people are super knowledgeable and willing to go through those hoops. I'm not, not anymore.
I spent a little bit of time hunting down and eliminating W11's annoying behaviors, and now I don't mind it at all, and I get to just jump in games with very little hassle.
I'm pretty excited about the future of Linux gaming now that steam OS exists and Linux is a super viable target for developers, though
Right because windows also continues to make things easier to use and does the bare minimum to maintain modern aesthetics and most people like it or not just don’t care about bloatware or telemetry. Simple as that
I only use Windows because I have no other choice for work, otherwise I only run linux. I fully believe the average user could easily switch to linux but it's just not worth their time normally.
You know what sort of tom fuckery I had to get into to get my gaming laptop working? I had to find a sketchy windows 10 LTS IOT ISO, run some registry hack then find and install all my drivers just because the regular working consumer edition of windows is such a bag of bloat..
For hardware I paid for..! Next time I'm just going with system76 right out of the gate. I just kept reading reviews about things not working right or still being in development so I bought a mainstream laptop with a warranty.
A lot of linuxy or FOSS sort of stuff is still buggy despite being better than it was ten years ago. No one talks about it. Purism phone, pine phone, Linux gaming, the steam deck, etc. They all have major flaws or sometimes breaks in functionality. Where mainstream has breaks 1/10 even the best Linux setup has breaks 1/5 of the time minimum. And that's great but it still sucks that you have to look elsewhere because mainstream is a monetization sponge in all senses of the phrase.
I use windows at work, and it's the most annoying OS. so many small annoying behaviours that Microsoft will never fix. If it was a Linux dist I could fix those things, I can't pull the source code for the windows window manager and change the stuff I don't like. Linux gives me that freedom, and I love Freedom.
My laptop updating itself to Windows 11 is the reason why I'm switching back to Linux.
Other than Corrana I use these on a daily basis. I'd rather they stop opening edge whenever I mistype in the start menu.
There are ways around this, just follow the "How to Disable Web Search on Windows 11 via the Registry" section (unless you have Pro the first part should work). So much better without them there.
PSA: If you need windows, and you can install it yourself, install the Education version. It comes with slightly less crap preinstalled. (For the license just massgrave.dev that shit...)
massgrave.dev
Nice site, didn't know you could run a command with PowerShell.
Removing the RDP client is an interesting one. May just be bizarre to me because I use it on a daily basis.
I was not even aware it could not be uninstalled, especially since some Home versions of Windows appear to come without it.
Hope they don't take away the sandbox. It is very handy for testing sketchy software.
It needs USB support.
Question, any guide on how to get the software into the sandbox without having to redownload it? I tried something with creating a startup app script but I couldn't get it to work.
Should be possible with CTRL C and CTRL V.
It works with regular RDP so why not here too?
Oh just put it into the sandbox directory? Am I just an idiot
I ignore them. Since January 2022 I've used exclusively macOS & Linux and you can't go wrong with that. macOS for my daily driver work laptop (M1 MacBook Pro) and Arch Linux for my home server, though I do enjoy using it a lot for work and if this mac ever stops working I will definitely build a framework Linux laptop. Nothing comes close to FoSS, don't have to put up with most of this proprietary business-oriented software.
Ms paint is the only truly necessary default windows app
Tragically, that seems to be being slowly deprecated in favor of shittier modern equivalents
How is this company finding that out only just now lol
they try until they give up I think
I would love to see/feel Windows is reaching the point where it's a small program with tons of optional programs, but god damn, I'm so sick of these bloated fucking OSes.
Android now takes 20+ gigs, Windows takes massive amounts of hard drive. And I know someone will say there's a way to configure it, but the amount of bloat that people just accept on programs is insane.
It's silly when Call of duty Warzone requires 150 GB, it's a bigger problem when windows continues to consume more and more memory with out a good reason other than pushing new products and services most customers don't want/use.
While I'm not mad at all that they've killed Cortana as a service, I am a little ticked that they used the name for their C- Siri and are now calling their AI service Bing AI instead of using the Cortana name for that
Wait someone used cortana?
That was my thought too. I use none of those type of programs. I know how to work a computer or some other device. I don't need to command it like a dog.
This is my favorite description of voice commands 😂
They’ve realized nothing. Have you opened Edge lately? A gazillion new privacy-invading features that could be relegated to web plugins. Bloat bloat bloat.
I'd pay extra for a windows that has nothing except the settings, task manager and the file explorer.
Why not use Linux? It will have exactly what you want, nothing more, northing less, it's free and beautiful and easy to use. There are open source variants for just about any software that you want..
Every two windows version is a disaster. 95 nice, 98 sucked, XP was great, vista was a flop, 7 wow, 8 eurk, 10 marvelous, 11 is shit... They don't learn. But this time the goal is to make more money through adds, widgets and preinstalled bloatware.
98 sucked, ME also sucked, 2000 wasn't too bad, XP was excellent
I stuck Windows 10 LTSC on there, removed Edge and turned off all telemetry and it already comes with basically none. Never have been happier. No telemetry or bloatware.
This is the only way to use that OS. I dont even think when they release the LTSC for 11 I will move over. Not like they have added huge feature sets I need.
What about winget? I ripped out a whole bunch of stuff (like cortana) from W10 when winget became available. Best thing MS has done for windows in years
Yep. Did the same with most of it but Cortana broke something I used. There's a tool that makes a lot of this stuff easier.
Tldr: Remote desktop, Cortana, camera, people app are all getting uninstall buttons.
"uninstalled" ... til the first automatic update 🙃
HI! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm skype!
"Are you suuuuure you don't want to use Edge? Are you suuuuure you don't want it to be the default handler for .pdf and .svg files? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Just in case, we'll pin it to your start menu again and put a shortcut to it on your desktop. Just until you're sure."
Apple's starting to get more and more into this. Safari pesters you and nobody wants NEWS/Stocks/AppleTv App, Weather, etc. But you can't uninstall them :(
I was able to uninstall all of the apps you just mentioned on iPhone just to cure my curiosity.
Which Apple device is not letting you uninstall those apps?
MacOS not iPhone. Should have specified
I got so annoyed with the fucking shortcut reappearing that I put it in one corner of one monitor that I hardly look at so it never appears on my main desktop monitor.
Just out of sight and out of mind.
Cortana is being killed and replaced with their ChatGPT Bing thing.
Why does Microsoft hate Halo so much
It’s a successful consumer product. Can’t have that under the Microsoft umbrella
Microsoft will punish Halo for each and every fan that failed to spend $2000 on mtx armor colors
Does that mean the AI thing will be unable to be uninstalled?
Probably. It will be an "essential" part of the OS, like Edge.
Which means it'll probably be training on literally everything you do on the computer and reporting it all back to Microsoft
Sounds like a good reason to get rid of windows 😁
I mean, Windows itself has been a good reason to get rid of Windows for a long time.
🤣 ... best sentence i've seen today. +1
Yep. A lot of what you do is already being reported back to Microsoft though.
Just like Cortana, however, there will be a way to disable it via Group Policy somehow. That's because government institutions that use Windows will not be happy with there being a feature in the OS that is capable of listening to a microphone and transmitting what it hears to a third party. I know Cortana can take voice commands, and I'd doubt their AI thingy will be much different in the user facing implementation.
Which is also when they regularly try and get you to mistakenly click a button to make Edge your default browser. Scummy dark patterns.
I never got unwanted stuff back after update.
Its seemed... better lately. But I used to get skype back every single update when 11 first came out.
They also fuck with privacy settings too on uodate...
Switched to Linux after that shit.
I don't know about Windows 11, but my Windows 10 instance also reverts my "fast startup" setting on every major update. I know this, because my PC's motherboard does not work with "fast" startup and instead takes about half an hour to get from POST to desktop when it's enabled. Suffice to say that I know when Microsoft changes this setting behind my back. I have it disabled for a reason, fuckheads.
What about FUCKING TEAMS
I love PowerShell
I understand that your comment makes sense in context, but wash your mouth out with soap for speaking such vile heresy
Why remote desktop? I can understand the rest. But who uninstalls default apps and doesn't use remote desktop?
Very few people use remote desktop.
Very few people bother removing all the default apps in the first place.
The type of high caliber nerd to care about a pre installed app that sits dormant and uses a few MB of storage probably already uses remote desktop often enough they'd want to keep it.
Remote Desktop App vs Remote Desktop Connection.
The remote desktop app isn't installed by default. At least I've never seen it installed by default.
I agree with that “and”
Great. Now give them a couple more years to learn they shouldn't be installed by default in the first place.
I think the list of "apps" (AKA junk) people would actually like to deinstall is quite a bit longer.
How about uninstalling edge? It is only needed to download Firefox, anyway.
What the hell is wrong with remote desktop and the camera app?
Nothing. But having the option to uninstall them like any other app is nice for whenever it might be relevant.
It sure took them a while, but they seem to finally allow folks to personalize their experience. I'm not going to complain about it, though – this is definitely a good change.
Not far enough. It'd be lovely if I could scale Windows down to almost 7 gigs or so (what windows 10 is, probably should be lower) But the thing is Windows in general is just a bloated piece of crap that continues to grow.
Maybe someday they'll discover checkboxes and use them to not have to install these apps in the first place.
"What's a checkbox? Oh, you mean that thing we use to trick users into 'consenting' to telemetry?"
I think I've got it! So on install, we make a checkbox that says:
Wait, so of the five apps they will "let" you uninstall now, one makes little sense to have in the consumer edition (remote desktop - which is effectively enabled in Pro only) and one is getting deprecated (Cortana - bye bye!).
The remote desktop they are talking about is the client app used to connect to remote systems.
The remote desktop feature that's limited to Pro is the ability for the system to receive remote connections.
The more steam deck and proton get games working on linux, the less need I have for this bloated windows.
It's truly ridiculous how much Linux gaming leapfrogged with the Steam Deck. I'm contemplating installing a debian partition for my main PC since I don't really play a lot of games that need anti-cheat.
The madlads really did it.
I've been gaming on Tumbleweed now for a month and my issues are minor enough that a tweak or two gets me flawless performance - and that's if there's an issue. Highly recommend embracing the penguin, comrades.
I installed Fedora on a seperate SSD, and I now dual-boot alongside Windows 11. It took a bit of time and tweaking until I felt comfortable with using Fedora as my daily driver, but it's been great.
Everything is smooth and fast, and I have all the apps I need. Well, almost. I subscribe to Game Pass, and have a couple of Steam games that don't run on Linux, so I have to boot into Windows when I want to play those games. Other than that, it's all great.
Yeah gamers are 95% good to switch.
Gamers and microshit have incompetiable values.
If devs started making anticheat for Linux it would get closer.
If they stopped making launchers it would be easier too.
how do i game on linux without a steam deck? (for windows games)
Is really just:
Of course, like in windows, something could go wrong and you need to tinker a little bit to fix it but for the vast majority is just like that.
Yeah for both Ubuntu and Arch on two separate computers in my house, the process was just install the distro then install steam + Lutris (steam for steam games, Lutris for every other kind of game like League or WoW).
Installing steam games is identical in Linux and Windows for the vast majority of games. Installing non-steam games is arguably easier since you never have to go to a web browser.
Honestly the only reason Windows is "easier" is because it's preinstalled on computers. As someone who has fresh installed Linux and Windows, Linux is miles easier to install. To install Windows 11 I tried following their recommendations (enabling TPM and secure boot in bios), but the W11 installer still didn't like my 2 year old computer, so had to open up the command prompt, regedit, and add 3 Bypass registry DWord 32 bit values. Then actually installing the O.S you just sit there and wait with an unusable computer. Linux installations have nice GUIs that are far more modern, don't require weird terminal hacks, and you have a usable computer while it's installing (you can open up Firefox and browse the web for example).
\rant
Man some time ago I had to install Win 11 on a laptop for my relative and nothing that I tried worked. I give up for a time and installed Zorin OS just to see how the distro looks like and of course no problems during installation. Later I tried again the Win 11 and the Zorin installation fixed whatever problem windows had with the driver.
Why are you installing w11 though?
Every year or two I give Windows a genuine try for around a month. WSL2 is actually pretty decent, it's a massive improvement on the Windows development experience I had back in 2015 when I tried running Windows full time doing Python/Ruby/Java development. Required cygwin, git bash, power shell, and cmd depending on what I was doing. It was a special kind of nightmare. Lots of native gems couldn't compile, lots of tooling issues, etc.
Now you can use exclusively Windows terminal, keep essentially all your development stuff in a Linux subsystem, and pretend you're in Linux. Integration with things like vscode or intellij is quite decent with the WSL.
That said, I hate Microsoft, hate the lack of customization, hate the default UI, hate the split between Windows 95-style settings and new Windows 10+, it's inconsistent as hell. Moving windows across monitors with different scaling still resizes the windows in a very archaic way. You can't reasonably use multiple desktops because you can't easily rebind keys to swap desktops without third party software. I've changed DEs in Linux for smaller issues than these.
Just adding: if you have an AMD GPU, the drivers are now included in the Linux kernel, so there is no manual install needed for those. For nvidia, you do still have to jump through some install hoops.
The easiest way is to install Steam on your Linux distribution of choice. Next you activate steam play in the steam settings to use the proton compability tool which allows playing windows games on Linux. You can check ProtonDB to see how well your game should work and see if tinkering or additional settings might be needed. A lot of steam games will just work. If you don't want to use steam, you can also try Lutris or Wine directly, but this approach will need ALOT more setting up and tinkering.
Linux gaming will sometimes cost you more effort but I think it's worth it to get away from Microsoft and have my freedom to set up my system how I like. Feel free to ask if you have more questions.
Been a Linux-only gamer for a year now. The hype is real and PC gaming has changed forever. Most people just hesitate to actually leave Windows behind, but the grass on the other side is much, much greener.
I made the switch and everything I want to play works. Some of it needed a bit of tweaking, though. Luckily instructions exist, and some began working with new Proton updates. It's a good time to be a gamer on Linux.
I'm all for less bloat ware, but come one. The camera app or remote desktop are the least shitty ones. Its borderline to call them even bloatware.
To be clear, they seem to be saying that those apps will still be preinstalled. They'll just be easier to uninstall if you want to do so.
"option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client. "
I thought they dropped support for Cortana. Is she back (maybe as "The Weapon")?
Yeah, having the option is not a bad thing. Nothing changes for those who use the apps or want them there, but it lets people remove them if that's what they want.
My issue is the Solitaire and games. We have Win11 for Business (Switching to Enterprise soon) and I have to run a powershell script during Intune/oobe to rip out all the bloat.
But Windows always came with Solitaire - even 30+ years ago. It was included originally to teach users how to use a mouse. Solitaire makes you click, double click and drag.
Removing Solitaire caused its own backlash. They can't win with that one.
Windows 11 ships with a shitty featureless version of the remote desktop client. You have to download the "real" or "full" version from the Windows app store.
I found this out incidentally a few weeks ago and it is annoying having the app you need and some random imposter app with the same name clogging up search / start menu.
I mean I’ve never used either of those apps and my computer doesn’t even have a camera.
Sounds like textbook bloatware to me… 🤷♀️
"if I don't use it, it's useless"
Bloatware doesn’t necessarily mean it’s useless, but if even a reasonable percent of people don’t want or need it or shouldn’t be preinstalled. That’s bloatware.
For bloatware to be a meaningful term, I think it needs to go beyond just some arbitrary percent of users don't need or use it. For an OS, having baseline apps which are useful across a wide variety of hardware setups and use cases is reasonable, even if they don't apply in your particular situation. Bloat would be superfluous apps that replicate baseline features or baseline apps that have grown in scope beyond what's strictly necessary.
one mans bloat is another mans treasure
Agreement. But they are not removing them so much as adding the option to uninstall them right? So functionally it's thereof needed still.
Let's cut the crap: it's not that they "realized" nobody wants it -- it's that they've come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
Do you think titles like that are a result of a severely myopic mind, unable to even comprehend why a corporation would willingly do something that their users dislike, or just clickbait?
I think it's a soft heading - they could be more honest and blunt, but a history of reporting like that may jeopardize any relationship they might have with Microsoft - with regards to press releases or advertising money and stuff like that.
I don't find it plausible that the people at pcmag, who's reported in this domain for a long time, can't see past such light corporate fuckery.
The title suggests that Microsoft has come to a conclusion that nobody wants their inbox apps, which is not the case according to the contents of the article. This title would have been true if Microsoft had come with a statement saying that "according to user feedback blabla we have decided to add the uninstall option". The reason might as well have been technical but this is yet to be disclosed. The term bloatware can also be seen as subjective as we normally define software that we personally don't have any usage of as bloat, the fact that nobody will uses it is highly unlikely. So I would say that the title of this article is misleading and quite opinionated, most likely because the author is upset about the bloat in the Windows OS he is experiencing.
nah, they are just gonna install it with an update later
They always knew, they just didn't care.
Im running Windows 11 on my new laptop. Every major update it's like:
My laptop officially supports Ubuntu, think I might make the switch full time. I don't game on my laptop and most of it's use is browser, plex and emails...
First off love the way you described them. Secondly, it reminds me of how microsoft keeps trying to charge my empty fake credit card I use for Xbox game pass. (You need to put a credit card to get any free month so I use a dummy). I get an email when they charge it literally twice a week like PLEASE JUST A SCRAP OF MONEY
Or they thought forcing them on you made them money and care about nothing else. Now they've realized it's a net negative.
They will just be replaced with something else that you can't remove.
Realized?? They knew all the time, and didn't give a shit.
It's more likely that they have pushed too far, and users are pushing back. They will dial it back a bit, and hope people forget.
They'll just wait until more people migrate to 11, then push their shit again, because then users won't have as much energy to give M$ the finger
Yup 99,9% bait and switch
That, and stop dumbing down the UI. Gradeschoolers in 1999 could operate windows, it doesn't need to get dumber
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Boomers are still struggling even with the modern, simplified UI. They would likely continue to struggle if we had Idiocracy style UI on things (big, bright colored buttons with pictures of what they do).
Boomers struggle period, its hard being stupid
I'm amazed they can sort of navigate an iphone
Not so much anymore. Gradescoolers all grew up on iPads and are probably worse off than boomers.
Er, it's not the boomers who are struggling. They're barely even in the workforce anymore.
https://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/grow-google-2019/smartphone-generation-computer-help/3127/
I know it's fun to rag our boomer parents and grandparents but it was boomers who designed the older, "complex" UI for usage by other boomers. Since boomers are now dropping out of the workforce (25% of it right now) it seems likely that the UI is being dumbed down for the much larger Gen-X/Millennial/Gen Z workforce.
Yeah, there's now a lot of people who have actually never used a desktop OS, and the only OS they've used being a phone or tablet. Those people are more having an influence on dumbing down the OS now. It's pretty crazy how compute illiterate newer generations have become due to shift in what is considered their primary OS. Some people don't even have laptop or desktops.
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
I see both kinds of Boomers. My dad, a boomer, is in the tech industry. He is a software engineer. My grandpa was also a software engineer. Everyone I know from his side of the family has been in tech.
And then there is every boomer I know that isn't my own family and they are practically luddites. I know the former can exist. But it seems rare.
Apparently a large portion of the population, regardless of generation, proudly announces their tech illiteracy. I'm IT, and these people don't even remember their personal email passwords.
LoL, tell that to every fucking child and teenager who have been using an iPhone, iPad and MacOS for all their lives. It's unbelievable how stupid you can get when you're locked into a walled garden and the OS you're using is designed for three year olds. I have a buddy who's mainly a Mac and iPhone guy, and I fuck you not, he doesn't know how to use anything else. He'll just stare at the screen and simply don't understand what to do.
Agreed. I have been working so hard to get my young kids to understand file systems, directory structures, keyboard shortcuts, etc; all that stuff that just never gets learned anymore with all the iOS/Android interactions.
I’m building a new PC for myself in the next few weeks and if they want to continue playing Genshin/Starcraft2/BeamNG/Trackmania on my older PC as it becomes the “Family PC” they will need to sit with me and learn how to reassemble it, install Windows, attaching peripherals, and setup a few basic things.
That’s the price and that’s the reward.
Many of us grew up in a world where you had to figure this shit out or simply not have a working computer/piece of software.
1999 gradeschoolers not today's Gradeschoolers with win98
They've always realized, they've just never cared.
They did care, they just cared about the money instead.
Yeah what a weird title, they know exactly what they are doing.
Using Windows primarily for gaming, I eventually got tired of some of the issues I had with it (ads appearing in the start menu). I gave Linux a try and it was so so for a while. I kept going back and forth but it's been 2 years now and I haven't had Windows installed and can play 90% of my games without issue. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. But for those that primarily use their computer for gaming and non-windows specific applications (like web browsing or other various things), Linux is offering some competition for desktop people.
linux seems to work pretty well until it doesnt and then it really doesnt work. seems that there's still some hardware incompatibility issues
That's why I stopped using it at home (apart from stuff like like NAS, routers, etc).
This was a few years ago so perhaps it's been addressed now. I installed Ubuntu and downloaded Steam to install. It wouldn't. I can't remember exactly why but I had to find answers online and quickly gave up.
I turned that laptop on over a year later and Ubuntu was out of date and needed upgrading. It couldn't install the latest version because it needed to upgrade to versions in between, some of which have been moved to archive. I installed Windows 10 instead.
I'm responsible for a couple of Linux servers at work so I'm sure I could have addressed these issues at home, but I really couldn't be bothered when I have better things to spend my time on. I just wanted a working Laptop that gets used occasionally.
What games fall into the 10% that don't play?
(Genuinely asking--I've been considering the switch.)
Some games use kernel-level anticheat. Unfortunately, because there is a kernel driver involved, it must be specifically ported to Linux, and some developers simply don't want to bother.
examples: Valorant, Roblox, PUBG
It's mostly going to be games that use anti-cheat software (though some work on Linux.)
So if you're someone who likes to bounce around to the hot new competitive online multiplayer title then Linux probably wont serve your needs right now. If you can't think of a single esports title you want to play, once you install Steam and Lutris you'll probably find nearly everything you want to play works.
That's awesome news for me then, I hate PVP. Mostly do RPG stuff and things like Crusader Kings III, Rimworld, Stellaris, etc.
Are you (or anyone else) aware of how things like No Man's Sky might run, or the new Baldur's Gate, or (if anyone can make a guess) Starfield?
I run No Man's Sky on Nobara Linux, installed it on my old laptop that barely gets by on Windows. Really breathed new life into it and I haven't had troubles.
Just installed it on steam after checking the box for proton compatibility. You might need to run a task kill command if it gets stuck in a DirectX install loop on launch but other than that it's been smooth sailing for me.
I can say offhand that No Man's Sky put a lot of extra time and effort into their Steam Deck support so that definitely works. Otherwise your best bet is to check either the Steam listing for a game (check the Deck Verified rating. Anything rated "playable" or "verified" should work pretty seemlesly on any Linux gamingPC) or https://www.protondb.com/ (a user run listing of the compatibility of different games. A good resource and often has some troubleshooting advice. Unfortunately it can often have outdated or just inaccurate information as it's all based on user reports. Still usually a pretty good indication of compatibility.) There's no indication on either regarding Starfield compatibility. Given that it's probably too resource intensive for the Deck it may not get as much special attention from Valve as something like Elden Ring (which ran better on Linux than any other platform after it was out for a few days and Valve had added a patch to Proton to fix an issue that the developers took longer to patch in the game itself.) Chances are pretty good it'll work though (assuming your hardware can run it.) The Steam page for Baldur's Gate 3 says it's Steam Deck Verified so it'll just work so long as you launch it through Steam. Here's the protondb page for reference https://www.protondb.com/app/1086940 . Crusader Kings III, Rimworld and Stellaris apparently all have native Linux ports so, while you may find reasons to prefer running the Windows versions with Proton, you don't actually need to check for any special compatibility. They just are Linux games.
It really sounds like I've been sleeping on recent Linux compatibility then. I remember back in the days of Wine it seemed more a PITA than was worth it.
Thanks so much for the in-depth response!
Yeah Steam/Proton and other tools like Lutris make it so you don't really even have to touch Wine for most stuff, it's all taken care of for you. Gaming on Linux has come a long, long way in the last few years.
Well, Proton is a patched Wine. Nowdays many games support Linux natively.
BG 3 runs on the Steam deck, mostly without issues (except for those that aren't Linux related, like text being hard to read due to the small display and lower frame rate due to the portable hardware).
Mostly games with anticheat or very new games. Everything else pretty much just works especially older games. I needed to visit pcgamingwiki all the time to get older games to work on windows but for linux I mostly just visit protondb and find out I don't need to do anything or need to just put in launch command. System shock 1 was the only game I had to actually go through a process to get it running with audio.
Games using Easy CheatEngine (or something like it)
EAC (Easy AntiCheat) works just fine on Linux as long as the developer enables it. There are very few anti-cheats that don't work anymore. The ones that aren't as big like Vanguard, which is Valorant's anti-cheat, don't work, but Battleye, EAC, and VAC works just fine.
The biggest one I miss, and it works, but the anti-cheat keeps me from my favorite servers is anything from the Red Orchestra series. I really enjoy their newer game Rising Storm 2 but the vast majority of the servers are protected with an anti-cheat that keeps me from joining. I've found a couple servers that don't use the anti-cheat and I can play on those, but they're not quite the same as some of the servers I have as favorites that are playable on Windows. Otherwise, most things generally work good, biggest problem is with launchers, and even those can be bypassed or fixed, but I've gotten to the point in my life where I just want things to work without having to remember what config files I've changed or futz with that may break in the future. The other games that I've had that don't work may as well now, but honestly I've forgotten what they were. One that I don't play, that I know a lot of people do is Destiny and I saw that they'll ban you if you try on Linux. But I've only heard that as I haven't played that on PC.
I would but the only thing holding me back is the lack of HDR support in Linux. Windows 11 is currently the only desktop OS to implement it properly (10's HDR is a joke), so I'm stuck with it
Great point. I still don't have an HDR monitor but that could be nice. Plus, if everything's working for you no need to switch it up! It's great that Microsoft is adding the ability to remove some of the programs a lot of people don't / wont use without having to copy and paste powershell commands. I remember there were some scripts / instructions on how to uninstall what would otherwise be uninstallable programs by opening a powershell as an administrator. I don't have anything against Windows, I just got tired of having so many ads put into my start menu and ads in the weather widget they added to the task bar after I paid $100+ for the OS way back when. But I'm not sure how their handling the "price" of Windows now.
The ads in Windows 11 are a dogshit feature, but you can turn them off in the settings.
Yea I've always found that complaint odd. I just assumed everyone who makes it also has the activate windows watermark, and thus can't access the option.
I don't give a shit, I'll use other programs to uninstall whatever I want.
Call me when I can use a vertical task bar. Until then, I'm sticking with win10.
linux intensifies
Still no Microsoft edge though...
No longer providing a browser with a consumer operating system is a bad idea. How would you install another browser?
They just need to stop plugging and advertising it so relentlessly.
The package manag- oh it's windows right
It has built in package manager now (
winget install Mozilla.Firefoxwould install Firefox on clean Win11 installation).So YoU hAvE tO uSe ThE cOmManD lInE
This is interesting news to me. I’ll have to poke around to see if Windows 10 got one too.
Sure it's okay they come with a browser, but you should be able to uninstall edge after you've downloaded another browser
That's the Windows 95 lawsuit all over again. They forced internet explorer on people, got sued for creating & exploiting a monopoly, lost, and had to offer people the chance to remove it.
They claimed it's integral part of the OS, and so were forced to un-integrate it.
I'm sure they will find a way to give users a choice to get rid of Edge, if they
really wanted towere forced yet again.it's crazy to think that you can't just uninstall some apps in the first place even though it would be technologically possible
Is there a way to disable the ads, news and recommendations yet? Until then I'm not upgrading.
It's the integrated AI spying on you that is real concern
#everythingisainow
Wait: They are saying you can remove the Remote Desktop client? You mean the client you cannot use to connect to a Windows Home license because you cannot run remote desktop without a higher license?
Interesting flex there Microsoft.
feels like a bit of a strawman.
arguing that you can't use the client without the license for the server... on the same machine, is silly. There's tons of utility with the client even if you don't have the server license locally, especially if you ever use the Remote Desktop Client remotely.
If I could also get the ability to disable internet search results from the start menu that'd be great. So sick of looking for a file or app, hitting enter a second too soon, and having Edge slowly eat my resources to display a Bing search result that I never wanted.
That is fixable via regedit, I believe.
But yeah, I've recently fully migrated to Linux and can run Windows in a virtual machine if I ever need it for work. In setting that up, it made me realize just how much junk and telemetry is included by default in Windows 11 and how sluggishly it runs compared to Linux.
I'm a CG artist and I dual boot Fedora on my workstation and run it on my file/license server. I'm very familiar with Linux and it's great for a lot of things.
A ton of my software runs much better than on windows and I would stay in it if I could, but unfortunately I have software needs that don't run on Linux and can't work in a VM in full capacity.
Good, maybe in two or three more years Windows 11 will be useable. Right on time for Windows 12 to roll out and drag Microsoft users back to the Stone Age again.
If the pattern holds Windows 12 might actually be good
If the pattern holds windows 12 will be windows 14.
They always knew. When the time comes they'll force everything back with even more bloatware and even less freedom to choose because that's the corpo way. This is just another long-term power grab.
Yeah agreed. They've been pushing this (and losing) since the days of Windows phone. We don't want the phone and we don't want the apps.
Linux is miles better
Who
Linux
Windows 11 Pro, now with NOTHING installed. Windows 11 Pro plus, now with firefox pre-installed so you can clame your system never had edge on it!
What about one drive and edge?? Last time I had to do updates on the SOs computer I told her I'm switching her to Linux as soon as gaming just gets a little more stable (she plays halo infinite, which sometimes isn't that polished on Linux)
every few reboots it asks me to install it and it's really fucking annoying and I have a feeling I'm not going to have a choice at some point. my wife installed it accidentally and now she's fucked. the thing fucking sucks.
Do you guys have kids by any chance? If so, that means MS is a mother fucker.
no i think children are disgusting
I was wondering why I kept getting that on my work computer. I don't mind windows 11, I think it looks nice. But man that shit is annoying.
it's very annoying and in my opinion an extremely unethical way to market your product
Wake me when you can uninstall the Chat app without powershell (which I assume is a thing but don't use Win11 so I don't know)
I remember reading recently that they'll be removing Teams integration so that should do it.
Alternatively, you can get a copy of Win 10 LTSC that doesn't have any bloatware pre-installed.
You can also select language English (World) and that also doesn't have any bloat for what I've seen
So much drama. Anyone still using Windows must not dislike the behavior enough to switch.
I've used Linux for over 10 years now because I disliked this Microsoft culture even back then with Windows 8 or whatever it was back then. Why are people still using Windows today when Linux is easier than ever?
Windows 7 was a good OS, it tended to not spy on the user. You can see the difference in installation options if you put it into a virtual machine and run it. Compare with today's windows.
Then compare Linux distros 10 years ago with current ones. Only gotten easier to use and much better looking.
Because Linux is Niche. It doesn't as far as I know come pre installed at the store when you buy a computer. Etc. That's why people still use Windows.
I personally don't find anything wrong with Windows. I use it for work and home and it's fine.
How do you know if somebody has Linux on their desktop?… They'll tell you. I'm currently on Windows 10 Pro but have used a number of different Linux distros since the mid-90s. I also had to have Windows because of work requirements but now that I'm retired, I may go back to Debian or Kali.
Windows user here, have used Linux here and there too:
Gaming. It's gaming. Yes, Linux has workarounds and options, and some people are super knowledgeable and willing to go through those hoops. I'm not, not anymore.
I spent a little bit of time hunting down and eliminating W11's annoying behaviors, and now I don't mind it at all, and I get to just jump in games with very little hassle.
I'm pretty excited about the future of Linux gaming now that steam OS exists and Linux is a super viable target for developers, though
Right because windows also continues to make things easier to use and does the bare minimum to maintain modern aesthetics and most people like it or not just don’t care about bloatware or telemetry. Simple as that
I only use Windows because I have no other choice for work, otherwise I only run linux. I fully believe the average user could easily switch to linux but it's just not worth their time normally.
Mmm that's not really realizing anything.
You know what sort of tom fuckery I had to get into to get my gaming laptop working? I had to find a sketchy windows 10 LTS IOT ISO, run some registry hack then find and install all my drivers just because the regular working consumer edition of windows is such a bag of bloat..
For hardware I paid for..! Next time I'm just going with system76 right out of the gate. I just kept reading reviews about things not working right or still being in development so I bought a mainstream laptop with a warranty.
A lot of linuxy or FOSS sort of stuff is still buggy despite being better than it was ten years ago. No one talks about it. Purism phone, pine phone, Linux gaming, the steam deck, etc. They all have major flaws or sometimes breaks in functionality. Where mainstream has breaks 1/10 even the best Linux setup has breaks 1/5 of the time minimum. And that's great but it still sucks that you have to look elsewhere because mainstream is a monetization sponge in all senses of the phrase.
I use windows at work, and it's the most annoying OS. so many small annoying behaviours that Microsoft will never fix. If it was a Linux dist I could fix those things, I can't pull the source code for the windows window manager and change the stuff I don't like. Linux gives me that freedom, and I love Freedom.
My laptop updating itself to Windows 11 is the reason why I'm switching back to Linux.
Other than Corrana I use these on a daily basis. I'd rather they stop opening edge whenever I mistype in the start menu.
There are ways around this, just follow the "How to Disable Web Search on Windows 11 via the Registry" section (unless you have Pro the first part should work). So much better without them there.
How to Disable Web Search Results on Windows 11
PSA: If you need windows, and you can install it yourself, install the Education version. It comes with slightly less crap preinstalled. (For the license just massgrave.dev that shit...)
Nice site, didn't know you could run a command with PowerShell.
Removing the RDP client is an interesting one. May just be bizarre to me because I use it on a daily basis.
I was not even aware it could not be uninstalled, especially since some Home versions of Windows appear to come without it.
no shit.
Hope they don't take away the sandbox. It is very handy for testing sketchy software.
It needs USB support.
Question, any guide on how to get the software into the sandbox without having to redownload it? I tried something with creating a startup app script but I couldn't get it to work.
Should be possible with CTRL C and CTRL V.
It works with regular RDP so why not here too?
Oh just put it into the sandbox directory? Am I just an idiot
I ignore them. Since January 2022 I've used exclusively macOS & Linux and you can't go wrong with that. macOS for my daily driver work laptop (M1 MacBook Pro) and Arch Linux for my home server, though I do enjoy using it a lot for work and if this mac ever stops working I will definitely build a framework Linux laptop. Nothing comes close to FoSS, don't have to put up with most of this proprietary business-oriented software.
But do you use Arch?
Ms paint is the only truly necessary default windows app
Tragically, that seems to be being slowly deprecated in favor of shittier modern equivalents
How is this company finding that out only just now lol
they try until they give up I think
I would love to see/feel Windows is reaching the point where it's a small program with tons of optional programs, but god damn, I'm so sick of these bloated fucking OSes.
Android now takes 20+ gigs, Windows takes massive amounts of hard drive. And I know someone will say there's a way to configure it, but the amount of bloat that people just accept on programs is insane.
It's silly when Call of duty Warzone requires 150 GB, it's a bigger problem when windows continues to consume more and more memory with out a good reason other than pushing new products and services most customers don't want/use.
While I'm not mad at all that they've killed Cortana as a service, I am a little ticked that they used the name for their C- Siri and are now calling their AI service Bing AI instead of using the Cortana name for that
Wait someone used cortana?
That was my thought too. I use none of those type of programs. I know how to work a computer or some other device. I don't need to command it like a dog.
This is my favorite description of voice commands 😂
They've known since all their other shitty windows. It's been ass since xp
I liked Win 7 and am still liking Win 10. That Win XP nostalgia isn't up to date anymore.
speak for yourself. I love XP and I'm super into vaporwave which has a huge following for nostalgia of that era.
They’ve realized nothing. Have you opened Edge lately? A gazillion new privacy-invading features that could be relegated to web plugins. Bloat bloat bloat.
I'd pay extra for a windows that has nothing except the settings, task manager and the file explorer.
Why not use Linux? It will have exactly what you want, nothing more, northing less, it's free and beautiful and easy to use. There are open source variants for just about any software that you want..
I don't get why people still out up with windows
"easy to use" LOL
Every two windows version is a disaster. 95 nice, 98 sucked, XP was great, vista was a flop, 7 wow, 8 eurk, 10 marvelous, 11 is shit... They don't learn. But this time the goal is to make more money through adds, widgets and preinstalled bloatware.
98 sucked, ME also sucked, 2000 wasn't too bad, XP was excellent
ME would like a word.
They really got trained well... Removing shit bloatware is not a "feature"
Thanks daddy satya. Visionary
Does anyone want windows 11 at all?
Not seen a single new feature in windows I cared about since XP 64 bit.
I’ve been using it for quite a while now… it’s fine. This happens literally every single time a new windows version comes out.
The only genuinely bad Windows IME was ME. Vista had driver teething problems, and 8 had a weird UI, but outside of that… they’re all just fine.
I’ve been building PCs since the late 90s and have pirated Windows from 98 on up.
I stuck Windows 10 LTSC on there, removed Edge and turned off all telemetry and it already comes with basically none. Never have been happier. No telemetry or bloatware.
This is the only way to use that OS. I dont even think when they release the LTSC for 11 I will move over. Not like they have added huge feature sets I need.
Imagine paying $200 for that
Now if only we could remove all the ads they are pushing…
The people app has been an abomination since the start and was barely updated since.
In other news the sky is blue and water is wet.
Truly, we are on the cusp of great discoveries.
What a time to be alive!
I'm using Windows 11 with Edge and nothing removed because it doesn't impact my life.
I said what I said.
Microsoft realizes... And promptly moves it to Windows 12.
How about insta- crap and so on? Any idea to prevent it from having it in any new profile?
Eagerly waiting for Windows 11 LTSC in later half 2024
They always knew
What about
winget? I ripped out a whole bunch of stuff (like cortana) from W10 when winget became available. Best thing MS has done for windows in yearsYep. Did the same with most of it but Cortana broke something I used. There's a tool that makes a lot of this stuff easier.
https://christitus.com/windows-tool/