Went out to a pizza place the other night. Thought it was a brewery (one of my favorite local brews, actually), and had been there before and enjoyed flights from them…only to find out the place was a joint between the brewmaster and the restaurateur. Brewmaster took his share, his recipes, and dipped a couple days prior.
Anyways while the food was pretty good, I mostly went for the beer and that’s a big part of why I won’t go back (they only had a couple cans from the brewery left and nothing on tap, only some other regional breweries).
But the other part is that my wife put a tip down on the slip for our party of four (us and two kids) and asked me to doublecheck her math. I thought it seemed high and it turned out they already put a tip on the bill. For a party of four. Never saw that before.
Yea they better have this charge displayed very well on the menu
The service charge is not a tip or gratuity, and is an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps subsidize the staff wages so that management doesn't have to while still seeming to have reasonable prices on the menu. Also, management takes a cut as it subsidizes their wages too.
Edit: I get why this upsets some people, but the downvote button is not a disagree button. I merely restated the restaurant's explanation in plain language. I'm not agreeing with it...
If you charge me for service, I’m not paying extra for service.
Call it what it is - a junk fee so they can make their prices look lower than they are. I wouldn’t go to this restaurant a second time.
By tradition, the service charge is supposed to be paid to the staff. Therefore, it's not customary to tip when you're assessed a service charge, although many restaurants choose to ask for a tip anyway.
If you work in a restaurant that charges a service charge but pockets it... you're being robbed.
Unfortunately, this isn't true anymore. At least in PA.
34 Pa. Code 231.114. Service charges.
§ 231.114 b
The notice required by subsection (a) must state that the administrative charge is for administration of the banquet, special function or package deal and does not include a tip to be distributed to the employees who provided service to the guests.
If this restaurant was passing the entire service charge to its waitstaff, it would be advantageous to call it a gratuity and exempt it from sales and income tax. The IRS does not tax tips/gratuities as income.
By charging (state) sales tax on the service fee, they also have to declare it as revenue, which increases their income and thus their income tax. They have to pay a portion of that service fee in income tax, so they aren't going to be passing the full amount to their waitstaff. The restaurant will be keeping the bulk of that service fee.
Heck, I wouldn't even pay this restaurant the first time. I'm out. You ain't making me pay extra after the fact.
The problem is, this is still decietful. If this is an issue then the correct move would be to make every item on the menu 18% more expensive as a base. Because now, they still get to say “oh well our prices are still low come eat here and get “X item” for “Y price” but that’s not true anymore because of the service charge. It’s just a way to keep menu items lower in price but increase the price at the end.
Sounds like it does much the same thing as tipping then, right? But then the receipt says you should pay the service charge and a tip on top 🤔
I'm not American so maybe someone can explain this to me, haha...
I'm an American, and I can't explain this to you. If I saw this on a receipt, I would write down on it that I'm tipping $0 because of the service fee and to consider the fee my tip.
If you live in a place where this is becoming the norm, that’s exactly what you do.
A far more above board and less vibes-based way to pay.
It doesn't make sense to any sane person. But basically:
The restaurant feels that costs have increased and in order to remain profitable they must raise prices. Instead of raising prices on the menu, take the canoli as an example, from $11 to $13, they decided to add it after the calculation.
This means the customer may go out with an idea of what they would like to spend (maybe it's a special treat for them) orders based on the menu, figures tip and tax... Expects to be out for $100.... But surprise! You owe a fucking service charge.
Now-- I'm not into this particular restaurant's finances. Let's be generous and assume they need to charge more to break even. This is the shady (and should be illegal) way to do this. They should instead raise prices and be honest with the customer what they feel they need to charge.
Except you're wrong. It is a tip because the tip is the service charge. The tip specifically is "we pay them less than minimum wage and your tip covered the rest of their service cost". A tip AND a service charge, especially a service charge not levied because there were X+ people at the table, is double dipping on the tip. Both fees are for the same thing. Either increase prices or increase the tip(or pay your workers fairly and don't expect me to subsidized the rest with these secret fees). Make them upfront and honest. This isn't. This is a perfect invitation to say "you already charged me for the service, so no tip is needed, because that's what it is for".
The tip specifically is "we pay them less than minimum wage
Not everywhere. Some areas don't allow wages that are lower than minimum wage for tipped jobs. The area I live in in California is around $17-18/hr minimum wage regardless of if the job is tipped or not.
Except you're wrong. Service charges are not considered tips under FLSA rules within the US. Many states and local jurisdictions have special rules for tipped wages, how they're taxed and those taxes are collected, and service charges are not included in that definition.
Nice reading comprehension. The TIP is a service charge. You got that backwards buddy. So a service charge and a tip is service charge x2. Or you're admitting that a tip is only for "above and beyond thanks", in which case it's not mandatory and this is again a scam.
You might want to read it again
Service Charges: A compulsory charge for service, for example, 15 percent of the bill, is not considered a tip under the FLSA. Sums distributed to employees from service charges are not tips, but may be used to satisfy the employer’s minimum wage and overtime pay obligations under the FLSA.
A place implementing a service charge cannot classify it as a tip, even if it's 100% passed onto the employee... a mandatory charge is not a tip, even if the restaurant encourages you to treat it that way. Certain states and jurisdictions tax tips differently than regular wages, and service charges are wages, not tips.
A tip is money paid directly to the worker providing the service. The restaurant can't keep any part of it. They are not taxed on it, either as sales tax or income tax. That money is only counted as income to the worker.
This service fee was subject to sales tax. It will also be subject to income tax by the restaurant. The restaurant gets to keep as much of it as they want.
"Mandatory gratuities" are tips that the restaurant obligates the customer pay to the waitstaff. Where these are charged, you are not allowed to stiff the waitstaff. The restaurant cannot keep any part of that gratuity.
Tips/gratuities and service fees are not the same thing at all.
I'm not talking the law, I'm talking what the tip actually is in practice. It's the service charge. You're paying for the server to serve you. The tip isn't for the food. It for the server serving. Just because you've been conned and guilted into accepting this as normal doesn't make it right. And just because it's taxed doesn't mean it's still not extra income to the resturaunt. Would it be ok if I mugged you but paid taxes on the money and gave it a cutesy name?
A "tip" is for the server serving.
A "mandatory gratuity" is for the server serving.
A "service fee" is for the restaurant existing. Service fees do not go directly to the staff. The restaurant keeps most of that service fee.
I mentioned taxes not to suggest that the practice is legitimate, but to demonstrate that the money is income to the restaurant. Tips are not income to the restaurant. Tips are income only to the staff.
I acknowledge that there is no significant distinction to the customer between a tip and a service fee, but there is a highly relevant distinction between the two for the restaurant and the server. The service fee this restaurant is charging is money stolen from its staff.
This restaurant could support its workers by adding a mandatory gratuity to the bill, in which case I would agree that no tips should be paid. But a service charge is not a tip. A service charge is not a gratuity. A service charge is not paid to the servers. A service charge is kept by the restaurant.
But If that's the reality, I feel no need to add a tip.
They probably pay $1/hr over minimum tipped wages. About $0.75 of that $17.22 fee goes to paying that increased wage, and the rest is pocketed.
If they wanted to subsidize worker wages, they would include a mandatory gratuity rather than a service fee. Gratuities are passed directly to workers.
This is truly scummy behavior.
subsidize the staff wages so that management doesn't have to
Yeah that's a pretty shit reason to levy this fee unsuspectingly.
In Australia this would be illegal drip pricing. JUST INCLUDE EVERYTHING IN THE PRICE OF THE FOOD! Is it so hard?
Absolutely wild you also don't add tax in the price in the US.
Is it too much to ask to just be told the price upfront on the menu?
Paying for servers based off of the price of the food just doesn’t make sense to me. If I order a super expensive caviar and super expensive bottle of wine the staff would be paid more than another server with large party that only orders inexpensive drinks. The second server would be paid less for doing more work.
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order.
On a side note if the server has to do something like prepare a salad table side or flambé a dessert they should get a bonus for doing that.
I worked as a server at olive garden many years ago. They famously had their soup, salad, and breadsticks deal for like $6 something. People would run us ragged getting more of each thing. And we'd be lucky to get a $1 or 2 because the price was so low, but it was vastly more work than regular food.
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order
Where I live, there's no separate minimum wage for tipped positions. It's the same as the regular minimum wage. Even so, it's still customary to tip, but just for some jobs. It's never made sense to me that it's customary to tip a Doordash driver but not a casual FedEx or UPS employee when the latter likely has more work to do and stricter deadlines to do it.
not a casual FedEx or UPS employee
Do you want corporate efforts to reduce delivery driver wages and processes to demand you pay their wages through delivery tips? Because I am sure are ready to go on this endeavor as soon as you want.
As far as I know, some of the casual/seasonal drivers (extra delivery drivers for holiday deliveries) don't get paid much more than minimum wage. I'm not talking about the unionized employees.
My overall point was that there's many jobs that get paid minimum wage, so why are only some of them tipped? It would be more consistent to either be all tipped, or not tipped.
It’s not going to the server, not unless the city has a minimum wage, or something. But any thing over that is 100% going to managment’s coffers.
ALL cities in all states have a minimum wage for all workers. By federal law
Yes. But some cities (or states, even,) specify another-higher minimum.
Since you want to be pedantic… most cities don’t have a minimum wage established; deferring instead to federal or state law.
18% service charge and then still ask for tips? Fuck all of this, this is a scam and refuse to pay this shit.
Based on the bottom of the receipt i would have said to the server something like "great, it says right here no need to tip"
What a lovely way to ensure that your customers will never return.
How about just raising prices since it is a cost of running the business.
Exactly, it's a linear extra cost so just bump all the prices that much.
But if you tell the customer how much things cost they won't buy as much.
It's just layer upon layer of dishonesty. The only time businesses get honest is when the government forces them to.
In a vacuum that would be fine. But in the current culture that likely wouldn’t overcome the tipping standard/culture and may just drive customers away thinking the prices are too high. Unless you have a huge blatant no tipping sign all over the place.
This isn’t too indigestible as it stands provided the wait staff understand they are likely to only get a tip for excellent service.
But to do this on top of an 11 dollar cannoli. That’s a bit different too. I hope it was like a dozen cannolis.
LOL
This is probably a hotel or resort. $4 cookie and $6 oj are the giveaways .
$11 cannoli etc.
Why have a service fee at all then?
Just raise the prices and use the extra income to pay the employees better if that's really your intention.
People won't get upset about the tip on top of it if you don't already have a "service charge" sectioned off in the receipt.
It's so that they can deceitfully advertise prices which are lower than the real price.
I believe this is totally illegal in the EU (because they're obligated to list prices and all charges, fully, upfront and that even includes taxes) but I guess that in the US there are States were it's either not illegal or has never been challenge in court.
I had a service charge like that added in Rome once. It is most likely illegal, but Rome is a pretty lawless place as it is where everybody tries to scam you all the time, so I didn't bother spending time arguing it and getting all worked up about a couple of euros during my holiday, just avoided the place thereafter. I know that's probably what they're counting on ...
Oh yeah, I live in Portugal and here too foreign tourists are natural targets for scammy shit. It's not too much but there are certainly bad actors who will take advantage of people who don't speak the local language and don't know their rights.
However I suspect it's a lot worse when some kinds of scams are actually legal.
Oh yes, the "coperto" or cover charge. Restaurants that are worth going to will tell you upfront about whether they charge you that and how much. Tourist traps will just put a small sign somewhere on the premises that informs you of their ass-pull fee.
I went to a small café in Venice and had a cup of coffee for 4€. They charged me a fixed 14€ coperto.
Coperto is perfectly legal and the norm everywhere. It would be clearly mentioned on the menu, typically at the bottom of every page and it is around a couple bucks per person. It's for the bread and bread sticks you get on the table, water and electricity to wash cutlery and plates you use, and to pay for serving stuff and rent.
Why not included in the price of that pizza you might ask? Because I might order that pizza to take away and not use all of the above.
Some touristy places take advantage of it, doesn't make sense for a coffee in Venice (though I'm not surprised). A couple of bucks that op was charged at a restaurant in Rome on the other hand, 100% expected everywhere in Italy.
Source, am from there.
So that shit is actually legal in Italy?
In that case I was totaly wrong on my belief on it not being legal in the EU.
I just read about coperto here, and I don't think that was it. I'm pretty sure it said "Servizio" on the bill, and it was a percentage on top of the price of what we ordered.
In my country (in the EU) usually if a service charge is added on top of the order, it's because that particular place doesn't accept tips.
That would be illegal in the EU country where I live (Belgium). Here the rule is that the advertised price must always include any mandatory charges, like VAT and service charges, so that advertised price = price the consumer would have to pay.
Companies offering goods or services must indicate the price in writing in a legible, visible and unambiguous manner.
The price is the total price to be paid by the consumer, including VAT and all other taxes or services that the consumer is obliged to pay extra. These prices are stated at least in euros.
That would be illegal in the EU country where I live (Belgium).
Further evidence that America isn't a legal country.
I the s legal most places in the US, some big cities like New York City have outlawed it.
Look at how the tips were calculated. They were based on a bill of $95.65, the price of the meal before the service fee.
This service fee allowed them to increase the price of the meal by 18% without increasing the calculated tip by 18%.
They are stiffing their employees.
Edit: A $100 check would have an expected, 15% tip of $15. A $118 check would have an expected 15% tip of $17.70. What they are doing lets them calculate a 15%, $15 tip on a $118 bill. They are "stealing" $2.70 worth of tips on every $100 worth of sales.
Alternative option: the service fee is the tip because there's no way I'm paying more than what's on that bill.
That just fucks over the waitstaff without harming the business at all.
Best option is to walk out as soon as you see notice of a service fee. It should be printed on the menu or a sign posted on entry.
Just raise the prices
They're already selling lemonade for $6. The sky is clearly the limit.
If the service charge is so they can pay the employees better, I guess they don't need a tip on top of that unless they went above and beyond their basic duties. Like what a tip should be for
The entire service fee thing is fraud at this point. Undercutting wages and skimming profits for owners off the backs of their employees.
I know it's been happening forever but this shit has been escalating exponentially.
It's to make you mad at their employees
It's failing. I'm just mad at the employer.
Because you're not a moron.
This is for Fox News watching Grannies to look at and go "Them libruls are making my food expensice because dey don't wanna git no jerbs"
Possibly illegal, depending on your local laws.
If it is legal, contact your congressman (local, state, national) because it sure as hell needs to be illegal.
Very unlikely. There's a statement at the bottom that explains what the fee is. There's a QR code at the top for more information, which OP cut off.
I doubt they went through the effort of updating their POS system, providing links to info on the receipt, and chose not to post a sign or put a note on the menu. Everywhere I have been with a service fee like this posts it, which would negate any legal issue.
Caveat emptor.
It's illegal if the fact that a service fee would be added wasn't shared before ordering (on the menu / by the waiter /...)
Possibly. Local laws vary heavily, and could limit hidden fees like these. If the franchise is in one of these places, but the parent chain is not, it could easily be implemented despite being illegal. It's a similar case if the local operator didn't have the required notices in the required way, since it would be done separately. Not necessarily out of malice, but a ton of places simply do not run a tight ship. The receipt is absolutely not the place these notices are required; that's just a convenience.
It's also possible that the POS has a bunch of options that can easily be set by management without involving lawyers. A required tip (often for large groups, but not always) is an easy use case for this. So are the various messages, including the tipping scale, or adding a promotional QR code (e.g. scan the code to fill out a survey and get $5 off your next visit)
In any event, I stand behind my advice- check if it's illegal, and push to make it illegal.
Basically, they just raised their prices by 18% and blamed it on the greedy, useless employees. I don't know why businesses bother selflessly "creating jobs" if they are so much trouble. Shouldn't those be the first things to cut to make their business more efficient under capitalism? Stop doing charity work and run the business yourself.
Probably better than expecting customers to tip voluntarily
Oh wait, they do that too
I hope their customers are exclusively people who support the the below minimum wage for servers law.
Basically, they just raised their prices by 18% and blamed it on the greedy, useless employees.
No, it's worse than that.
Look at how the tips are calculated. They use the base bill of 95.60, not the bill after the service charge has been applied.
If they rolled an 18% increase into their prices, the calculated tip would also rise 18%. But it didn't.
So in addition to effectively raising their prices and blaming their employees for it, they are also stiffing their employees by low-balling their tip calculations.
Actually, what I'm saying was that there shouldn't be a need for a tip at all. That 18% service charge is for services rendered outside of the production of the product, meaning the server, cashier, etc. In most countries that's rolled into the cost of the product, not a separate charge. In the US, that's paid for through tips instead. What they're doing is trying to double dip. They want to keep the money that normally would go to paying the service staff a wage without raising advertised prices and also have a separate tip to actually pay them.
This is a classic bait and switch where advertised price is not what you actually pay. Doesn't matter if they put a little sign to cover their legal obligations, it's still disingenuous to advertise one price and charge another. Tipping and taxes are common knowledge in the US as being added on after, but a service charge in addition to tipping is not and most people will assume that the service charge is a tip and won't also tip whereas it doesn't go directly to the service staff like a tip does. So likely in this place, the service staff just gets their $2.13/hr or whatever the tipped minimum is there, and a few dollars here and there in actual tips but doesn't get any of that 18% unless tips don't cover the required hourly $5.12 tip credit.
So they need to choose. Raise your prices for more profit and keep tipping, raise your prices to pay your service staff and do away with tipping, or keep your prices lower and risk tipping not covering the minimum wage tip credit.
I would simply not go to that restaurant anymore and very plainly let them know why. This is greed and I will not reward it.
Much like when I place a to go order and go pick up the order and the POS (point of sale not piece of shit if you’re wondering) system pops up that tip screen. You didn’t do anything worthy of a tip so I will not be tipping you. Now if for example when I get there they apply some discount I wasn’t aware of that makes my bill cheaper, I’ll tip for that. Throw in some extra cheese sauce, tip. Anything above and beyond, tip. Just ring me up and hand me my food, yeah no tip.
It's this (the service charge) or they raise prices across the menu. Some people prefer this, some people prefer the added cost baked in.
Personally I think the service charge is a little deceptive because you are hit with an unexpected expense at the end of your meal. Even if they're very up front about the charge most people won't be automatically calculating the 18% extra on whatever they're spending, they're just going to look at the price on the menu.
Some people prefer this
Citation needed.
I think those people own restaurants
They have raise prices across the menu, by 18% to be more specific.
Segregating the price increase as "service fee" is only so that they can deceitfully advertise their prices a lower than they really are, a form of Consumer Fraud (I believe this one is a form of Bait & Switch)
You realize that giving you 5% off so you will tip 15% is still greed though right? The greed is always there, it's just your perception of how it's delivered. We expect a little foreplay with our greed.
I didn’t say I was giving them 15%. I give 18% for full service. But a buck or two for something like this.
Oh boy, the unlawfulness of USA. This would be clearly illegal in EU, as misleading pricing.
Even if stated there's an 18% extra fee, I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to state prices exclusively without it.
I would simply refuse to pay that fee if it was here, and report them to authorities.
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In America, the restaurant would have to post this on the menu. Thus we have fine-print on our menus. God bless the USA.
It's nice to hear the EU doesn't let that crap slide.
I don't return to restaurants that pull this bullshit. Raise your menu prices to provide a living wage or take a hit to your profits.
Or, you know maybe the owner could live without a 5th cottage possibly?? naaaaaaa
That would be the 'take a hit to profits.' Yeah, I don't expect that either. What's annoying is that it is always the very profitable douche bag restaurants that do this. Most restaurants struggle to make ends meat.
Are restaurants just poorly managed, or is there another reason why they can't pay their employees a living wage when their markup is like 400-1000%?
Restaurants have notoriously thin margins. I'm not defending this bill, and there are definitely awful practices out there, but it ain't easy. Even a $34 dollar steak only kind of covers all the ancillary costs that make it happen.
The biggest issue with the crunch we have going on is that food (prepared or otherwise) should be way more expensive, and that shouldn't be an issue because most people should be making way more money. All of those should/shouldn'ts got way out of whack over the course of decades, and the circus only continued because people found crappy ways to keep it going.
It's a lot of industries. Construction is a great example. The developers make money. The material vendors make money. The builders make money. The sub contractors who actually put the parts together get haggled on invoices and take the lower amount because they have payroll to make and equipment loans to pay. Loans that are happily given out because the equipment can be easily repossessed.
It's a very good thing everything is correcting, but it's going to be an ugly process as workers get their due and pass the burden on to the small business owners.
Sounds like sit down restaurant menus should reflect the actual costs including waitstaff then like any fast food place is able to do.
Assuming restaurants have the same overhead as any other business: rent, staff, insurance, maybe equipment (manufacturing, etc.), what else?
They don't have expenses like vehicles, tariffs on imported goods, the cost to fly staff out for conferences, tech costs, and so on.
The only difference is the product they bring in, and the product they put out.
As a consumer, who doesn't get the benefit of industry discounts or high-volume prices, making food is really inexpensive.
When I see a restaurant, for example, selling pasta with marinara sauce for $15-20 a plate, I'm curious to know why they have to beg to cover costs. You can make the same dish for a family of four for under $3, and save $100 you'd spend getting the same dish at a restaurant.
So, again, if the cost of ingredients allows for such a significant markup, well beyond what most other businesses are able to get away with, why are restaurants having to charge "service fees" on top of tips?
It's the behind the scenes that cause a lot of the markup. There might be only two or three food service providers in your area. Food Service Company A has the same prices as Food Service Company B and C. There is no real competition to force prices down for restaurants.
If you are a franchise restaurant, you have to pay franchise fees, buy your all products from the franchise, work within the certain parameters, etc. There is no real way to find ways to drive down prices since your prices are set by the franchise through the prices of the product, corporate oversight, etc.
Great points!
So I'm stretching it a bit because at the end of the day this really does apply to more than restaurants, but the other commenter had it right.
Things like rent, insurance, etc go into the cost for well above the plate. So the ingredients are one thing, but you have to make up the cost of rent, paying the staff when there's low customer volume, all the insane amount of costs that go into running a business. That server has to make up for the cost of printing menus and delivering them by mail.
None of this is the servers fault, who should get a fair wage, but it all adds up in a way that makes it hard for the owner. In fact, the person who sold them the grills, refrigerators, and all the other equipment, knows exactly and empirically how hard it is and sets their prices accordingly.
And it's not like that company's delivery drivers, techs, and fabrication workers also don't deserve a wage. Or the Tyson folks that are plucking the chicken delivered.
The issue is, at the end of the day, those companies probably should be less profitable. But instead of accepting that, we put all of the companies that make all the stuff that run that restaurant into bigger companies that are now part of mutual funds, and they sell it out knowing they can grab it back if it goes under.
So you might be able to get away with making a few plates and some money, but trying turning it into something that will let you pay your rent and put your kids into a school. "Bob's Burgers" is pretty true to life.
This is how to tell someone you haven't checked grocery prices lately without actually telling them you haven't checked grocery prices lately. A box of mediocre pasta alone is going to cost you $1.75. A jar of Preggo will run you another 2.50. So 4.25 for an I hate life spaghetti and marinara meal.
The sauce they make probably doesn't come out of a jar of reconstituted tomato paste and dried seasonings either.
If you buy decent ingredients you are looking at $3 for the pasta and $9 for the sauce. Or $12 for an "ok for a home cook" spaghetti meal with no protein.
Restaurant serving sizes (for better or worse) are usually 2x+ larger than you would serve at home. Rent isn't free for the restaurant either. Or labor. Or utilities. Or equipment. Etc. General rule of thumb is that a restaurant needs to charge 3x raw food costs to cover expenses.
So your I hate life pasta would need to be priced at $6.50 and your ok for home but not something I would be happy with getting at a restaurant pasta would need to be priced at $18.
This is how to tell someone you haven't checked grocery prices lately without actually telling them you haven't checked grocery prices lately.
I'm going to assume you don't cook at home.
No restaurant worth eating at buys packaged pasta, or packaged bread/buns, or canned sauce.
Flour is cheap, like really cheap. If a restaurant is buying real ingredients, then they are spending pennies and charging tens of dollars.
Restaurant serving sizes (for better or worse) are usually 2x+ larger than you would serve at home.
I highly disagree. I've never left a restaurant "full", even after spending enough to buy a months worth of real food ingredients.
Rent isn't free for the restaurant either. Or labor. Or utilities. Or equipment. Etc. General rule of thumb is that a restaurant needs to charge 3x raw food costs to cover expenses.
This I agree with. Is rent, labor, equipment at a restaurant significantly more than other places of work? Paying min wage doesn't exactly eat through your margins.
That whooshing sound, in case you were curious, was the point sailing right over your head.
I worked at a pizza shop way back ages ago (early 2000's), but I think the formula is generally the same. Food costs they would shoot for 33%, labor ended up being around 33%, the rest was overhead for the facility (rent, AC, etc) and profit.
I think that's actually a pretty fair amount of profit in that. But that was almost 20 years ago. I feel like the formula is likely similar though.
So way late, but no that's shifted a lot. This is anecdotal but does speak to a lot of industries: my understanding is that pizza shops now live or die by cheese prices.
Labor, while fluctuating, doesn't move a ton month to month. Dairy can.
That's like I said anecdotal, but broadly, real-estate, equipment purchase/finacince has all been so hyper optimized it squeezes the business owners out.
It doesn't matter the market. PIZZAOVEN-XL will sell it to you, let you leverage payments against your home equity, grab it back and resell it. They can deal with the cash flow issue. They are "assembled in America". They don't care if you go out of business. They'll do it again for the same person that moves into the same space trying to do the. Exact. Same. Thing.
And I'm not trying to draw a blanket statement across all industries. I'm just saying the wheels that make every industry move are smarter and literally longer lived than anyone starting out, and there's a reason "John deer" and "John deer finance" are seperate companies.
Cheap sub contractors need so much constant control to make sure things are delivered on spec that it is almost like it costs more than to hire the more expensive company with a reputation for solid work
Saw exactly this when I was doing commissioning for a large municipality. No matter how tight the specs were, some of these knuckleheads would do it their own way and get mad when we forced them to do it right.
Some of them would just claim bankruptcy if the mistake was big enough.
Pro-tip, friends: don't pick the lowest cost of construction bids, I guaran-fucking-tee it'll cost you more than you saved. And, anyone who says they "meet code" is really saying they do the bare minimum required.
I feel like I have seen multiple receipts from this same place, likely posted by the same person, because I remember noting $16 Kids Shells on some other thread months ago.
The $5.00 glass of lemonade is ridiculous. Water and a small scoop of powdered flavoring/sweetener costs them about a quarter.
Straight up fees like that should not be legal, if they even are in that location.
They should instead just add 18% to every menu item since it applies to everything anyways.
As it is right now advertising their cannoli for $11.00 is a straight up lie since it's really $12.98. They simply don't because they want to hide the actual cost and make their menu appear to be cheaper so you cant walk out until after you've ordered and eaten.
Also if got a bill with an 18% service charge I would definitely not tip, since tips are supposed to adjust for the low wages anyways.
These prices are crazy. Lemonade costs as much as a beer. Drip coffee for $5. One cookie for $4. Over $15 for a kid's plate. Geeze.
Yesterday I bought some alcohol that was literally cheaper than the water they were selling.
My man never cheap out on the liquor
Meh. It was a good time. D&D is better with alcohol.
I actually support phasing tips out for service fees, less dodgy and less influenced by cognitive biases from customers toward certain genders or ethnicities of staff.
There's no need for a service fee, just increase the prices of everything by 18% or whatever. It's more honest that way instead of listing one price and then springing a hidden fee on people at checkout. Part of why this particular example is so dodgy is they seem to be fishing for a service fee and a tip, which just seems like double dipping on hidden fees.
You could go hog wild and include tax in the prices too. Then the price of an item could be the price of an item instead of the start of a maths quiz.
Wild to me that theres a whole country out there that has so much influence over my life (an entire ocean away) and they don't know how much their meal will be before the cheque comes. Incredible.
But we need every price to end in .99! /S
It’s important to require disclosure of the service fee. In my experience usually listed at the bottom of the menu. I know at least in some instances there are crowdsourced master lists of restaurants with hidden fees, and enforcement of disclosure requirements seems to have stepped up.
Roll it into the prices then. Any mandatory fee is a cost of doing business, don't make it look like your food costs less than it really does. Only taxes should be separate.
It's a USA thing. Other places often have rules that say the price advertised (on menu, website, in store) is the price the customer pays, all fees and taxes included.
Yeah in Australia restaurants are allowed to have a service fee only if it's applied on select days (e.g. weekends and public holidays, but not every single day of the week) and they clearly display the conditions of the service fee "at least as prominently as the most prominent price on the menu". Otherwise, they have to roll in any fees into the main advertised price.
Yeah, but phasing out should probably be some form of cross tapering, not a decently sized service charge and the same size "suggested tip" on top.
Add to the fact all the food in the restaurant is much higher in caloric intake, sodium and sugar than any meal you could prepare at home. You get to have some wonderful heart disease with a side of stress. Hardly worth going out to restaurants anymore.
That's the whole point of going to a restaurant. So you can convince yourself that the food is somewhat healthy, without seeing all the salt, sugar and fat they put in it.
That's the whole point of going to a restaurant. >So you can convince yourself that the food is somewhat healthy, without seeing all the salt, sugar and fat they put in it.
I thought the point of going to a reastaurant was eating tasty food. No one's lying to themselves about reastaurant food being healthy.
It does seem tipping is American culture? Never heard this accross SEA and China. Who in the world would put suggested tip in the bill?
In 2019, I went to Shanghai to attend my cousin's wedding and one thing he told me before going is that I should not tip under any circumstance. It's regarded as an insult to the service provider because you insinuate that they are unable to pay their employees well enough.
The UK has been infected with service charges but it's extremely common to either a) have it removed from the bill, as there is no obligation to pay it, or b) forego the tip because of it.
It very much is and suggested tips seems to be common from what i heard
It is so engrained into society that suggested tip amounts on the receipt are welcomed, because then you don't need to do the math
You're taking my 18% to pay them living wages, they they don't need tips.
$11 canoli? $16.25 kids shells?
Screw that place
$18.25 for a kids meal, $6 for lemonade is ridiculous. Don't walk, run away!
The lemonade is the same price as a beer 🤣
Ok where is this so we can avoid it?
So the patron not only pays for the food/service, but there's a separate fee to pay for ALL employees living wages??
If this trend continues the customers will end up making the food too!? Lol, I would talk to the manager for sure.
It's crazy how it's your job to pay the workers when you're not employing them. Just put the damn living wage into the price of the food, there, done. I'm going to a restaurant to eat stuff, not to haggle the worth of someone's work.
But but but if customers know how much it's going to cost ahead of time, they might decide to go somewhere else!
Well you are employeeing them, in that you're exchanging your money for the product of their labor, it just passes through a few hands to get to them.
In the UK we tend not to tip if there's a service charge.
If they add on a service charge at a bar. I always ask them to remove it. A service charge for me walking to the counter and ordering a drink.... Really!
In Spain we don't generally tip at all.
Neither do we in Denmark. I think that’s generally how Europe works. The price on the menu is the price you will be expected to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I have a restaurant or bar experience out of the ordinary or just have pleasant time with the staff I will tip. Otherwise I won’t, at it will be perfectly fine for everyone.
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The rip is that service charges tend to be higher than the tip. I've always worked to 10% all my life, or I'll add 10% and then round up to a nice sounding number. This was even considered reasonable in a lot of US places back in the early 90's, but these days restaurants typically set their service charges at 12.5% or higher.
That might be fine; if the service is actually good I won't mind, but if it's just half assed service and the food isn't great then I'll kick up a stink.
I mean, I probably won't, but I'll fantasise about doing it while in the shower for a few days after.
The OP should have shared the restaurant, what a dick head of an owner
$11 for a cannoli? Gotta lotta nerve with that price!
To be honest restaurants became so expensive so long ago that we just stopped going to them. I cant even remember when that was, but it was more than 5 years ago for sure. And things sound like theyve gotten a lot worse since then so I cant see us ever going back.
The Ticketmaster economy
I would have not paid the 18% fee and let them explain it to the cops when they arrived. I guarantee that’s not posted anywhere that they do that- so…
False advertising.
I frequently see "an 18% gratuity charge will be applied to parties of 6 or more" on menus. It's possible that this was posted and OP just missed it.
Edit: JK just read the text at the bottom where it calls it out as not a gratuity.
It’s not a gratuity, but restaurants like this often don’t expect tips either. At least in my area.
I would have not paid the 18% fee
Putting in a -18% tip when I swipe my credit card.
Places that do this will have fine print at the bottom of their menu mentioning the charge so they can avoid legal issues.
All prices stated on the menu must include any applicable surcharges. In other words, the price of the meal is also the final price. The quantity served must also be stated for drinks.
In many jurisdictions it’s not legal to charge this fee unless it’s advertised when ordering such as on the menu or posted signage.
If this was my post, I'd be circling the whole receipt.
fuck tipping culture. Why I never dine in anywhere, unless its a one off social event.
When will people have had enough and demand change? I stopped going to restaurants entirely due to bs charges like this & tipping culture.
I would, however, happily eat at an establishment with higher prices if they paid thier employees well & had accurate menu pricing.
About 95% of restaurants I've been to in Europe have lower prices than this receipt and don't expect a tip.
WTF is going on over there?
WTF is going on over there?
Unrestrained capitalism
AKA greed.
Image Transcription: Text and Image
A receipt from a restaurant. A white circle was marked up on the photo and inside reads the text
18% Service Charge (18.00%)
$17.22
The full receipt text shown is as follows.
Ordered: 11/11/23 6:31 PM
GARLIC BREAD $4.90
2 KIDS SHELLS $32.50
FUSILLI $20.75
CANNOLI $11.00
LEMONADE $6.00
DRIP COFFEE $4.50
2 DRAFT BEER $12.00
CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE $4.00
18% Service Charge (18.00%)
$17.22
Subtotal $112.87
Tax $10.73
Total $123.60
Cash -$123.60
Amount Due $0.00
------------------------------------------
Suggested Tip:
8%: (Tip $7.65 Total $131.25)
10%: (Tip $9.56 Total $133.16)
12%: (Tip $11.48 Total $135.08)
15%: (Tip $14.35 Total $137.95)
Tip percentages are based on the check price before discounts and taxes.
The service charge is not a tip or gratuity, and is an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps facilitate a higher living base wage for all of our employees. Please scan the QR code at the top of the receipt for additional information, or speak with a manager.
Really. What’s the new base wage? And if there’s better wage, the tip should be commensurately reduced.
[The service charge is] an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps facilitate a higher living base wage
Great! I don't need to tip because they already pay their employees a fair wage.
Capitalists when 10% taxes vs capitalists when 18% fee
I've seen this at restaurants serving more than a given number of people. Did you attend a dinner with a large group?
I've been seeing it more regardless of group size. I went to a restauraunt alone and they had the audacity to charge a service fee and ask for a fucking tip
I wouldve tipped more than the service charge! So I gave nothing instead
That is super frustrating. Especially if the "service charge" isn't really going to pay the staff a living wage. I'd be curious to hear from someone that works in a restaurant that does this whether or not they are actually being paid better after it has been implemented or if it is just cash grab by the individual restaurant owner/operator. Any takers?
Refuse to pay the service charge, offer the amount minus the charge.
This why even today, cash is king. With cash you can just leave the amount and they can take it or leave it.
Look, it's me never returning
What kind of time warp is this though where tipping recs start at 8%. I never see that anymore.
That 8% would actually be 26% given there is an auto 18% added already.
Hard to say. A lot of places don't pass these service charges to the servers. They don't want you doing that kind of math.
That assumes the 18% goes directly to your server.
Besides from a extra fee (which would be illegal in my country), who tf could afford 32$+18%+taxes for two bowls of pasta? At my local italian restaurant you get 2 bowls spagethi for 20€ (including taxes)
A kids size no less. Actually insane.
Need a tip at the bottom - it's a LOT of hard work to process those mandatory service charges!
Because reprinting the menu is too expensive. 😢
Printing a menu means they can't constantly alter the price. Did I say alter? I should have said raise.
Hey, Restaurant Bill. What did you kill, Restaurant Bill?
Are they charging tax on the service charge too?
Yeah they sure are
However the tip is based before the service charge. The United States is a hellhole
I think that's the most surprising part. With how greedy they seem, I would have expected the tip recommendations to be based on the subtotal or total.
Many restaurants clearly state "we add gratuity of x% to tables of 5 or more". Or something similar. It's an asshole move not to share this until you get the bill, but if they tell you ahead of time, I think it's fair.
Yeah for 5 adults. This is two adults and two kids meals.
But this isn't gratuity. The bottom of the bill clearly implies they expect you to tip 11.5% ON TOP of the 18% service fee.
I'm honestly surprised the percentage options they offer are so low. In NYC they start at 20%, and usually go 20% 25% 30%. I've even seen them start at 22%
Do you know how much garlic bread I can make for $5? A bunch, and fucking good too!
Shit on their bathroom bro
I recently learned you can have this charge removed.
I imagine if it's not disclosed clearly before you order, you can dispute it with your bank/cc company. If it is, and you still decide to give that company business, then I guess that's on you.
If you pay with your CC and sign the receipt after seeing the total, you’re going to have a very hard time getting it removed.
It's simple, if a restaurant adds something to the bill I did not agree to beforehand I'll never eat there again.
If a restaurant adds something to the bill I didn't agree to beforehand, I'm not paying.
That would be consequent, but usually it's not worth the trouble.
I'd rather leave with 20 quid less than wasting 30 min of my time.
Oh. It wouldn't take me nearly 30 minutes. It would be less than 5 total minutes.
How about just leaving the correct amount of cash on the table and walking away without saying a word.
I have never eaten at a restaurant that did not disclose a mandatory gratuity ahead of time, but I suppose it could happen.
That’s wonderful for you, but it does happen.
They should have it listed somewhere in large print and/or verbally inform people so patrons are aware ahead of time
Went out to a pizza place the other night. Thought it was a brewery (one of my favorite local brews, actually), and had been there before and enjoyed flights from them…only to find out the place was a joint between the brewmaster and the restaurateur. Brewmaster took his share, his recipes, and dipped a couple days prior.
Anyways while the food was pretty good, I mostly went for the beer and that’s a big part of why I won’t go back (they only had a couple cans from the brewery left and nothing on tap, only some other regional breweries).
But the other part is that my wife put a tip down on the slip for our party of four (us and two kids) and asked me to doublecheck her math. I thought it seemed high and it turned out they already put a tip on the bill. For a party of four. Never saw that before.
Yea they better have this charge displayed very well on the menu
The service charge is not a tip or gratuity, and is an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps subsidize the staff wages so that management doesn't have to while still seeming to have reasonable prices on the menu. Also, management takes a cut as it subsidizes their wages too.
Edit: I get why this upsets some people, but the downvote button is not a disagree button. I merely restated the restaurant's explanation in plain language. I'm not agreeing with it...
If you charge me for service, I’m not paying extra for service.
Call it what it is - a junk fee so they can make their prices look lower than they are. I wouldn’t go to this restaurant a second time.
By tradition, the service charge is supposed to be paid to the staff. Therefore, it's not customary to tip when you're assessed a service charge, although many restaurants choose to ask for a tip anyway.
If you work in a restaurant that charges a service charge but pockets it... you're being robbed.
Unfortunately, this isn't true anymore. At least in PA.
34 Pa. Code 231.114. Service charges.
§ 231.114 b
The notice required by subsection (a) must state that the administrative charge is for administration of the banquet, special function or package deal and does not include a tip to be distributed to the employees who provided service to the guests.
https://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/034/chapter231/s231.114.html&d=reduce
If this restaurant was passing the entire service charge to its waitstaff, it would be advantageous to call it a gratuity and exempt it from sales and income tax. The IRS does not tax tips/gratuities as income.
By charging (state) sales tax on the service fee, they also have to declare it as revenue, which increases their income and thus their income tax. They have to pay a portion of that service fee in income tax, so they aren't going to be passing the full amount to their waitstaff. The restaurant will be keeping the bulk of that service fee.
Heck, I wouldn't even pay this restaurant the first time. I'm out. You ain't making me pay extra after the fact.
The problem is, this is still decietful. If this is an issue then the correct move would be to make every item on the menu 18% more expensive as a base. Because now, they still get to say “oh well our prices are still low come eat here and get “X item” for “Y price” but that’s not true anymore because of the service charge. It’s just a way to keep menu items lower in price but increase the price at the end.
Sounds like it does much the same thing as tipping then, right? But then the receipt says you should pay the service charge and a tip on top 🤔
I'm not American so maybe someone can explain this to me, haha...
I'm an American, and I can't explain this to you. If I saw this on a receipt, I would write down on it that I'm tipping $0 because of the service fee and to consider the fee my tip.
If you live in a place where this is becoming the norm, that’s exactly what you do.
A far more above board and less vibes-based way to pay.
It doesn't make sense to any sane person. But basically:
The restaurant feels that costs have increased and in order to remain profitable they must raise prices. Instead of raising prices on the menu, take the canoli as an example, from $11 to $13, they decided to add it after the calculation.
This means the customer may go out with an idea of what they would like to spend (maybe it's a special treat for them) orders based on the menu, figures tip and tax... Expects to be out for $100.... But surprise! You owe a fucking service charge.
Now-- I'm not into this particular restaurant's finances. Let's be generous and assume they need to charge more to break even. This is the shady (and should be illegal) way to do this. They should instead raise prices and be honest with the customer what they feel they need to charge.
Except you're wrong. It is a tip because the tip is the service charge. The tip specifically is "we pay them less than minimum wage and your tip covered the rest of their service cost". A tip AND a service charge, especially a service charge not levied because there were X+ people at the table, is double dipping on the tip. Both fees are for the same thing. Either increase prices or increase the tip(or pay your workers fairly and don't expect me to subsidized the rest with these secret fees). Make them upfront and honest. This isn't. This is a perfect invitation to say "you already charged me for the service, so no tip is needed, because that's what it is for".
Not everywhere. Some areas don't allow wages that are lower than minimum wage for tipped jobs. The area I live in in California is around $17-18/hr minimum wage regardless of if the job is tipped or not.
Except you're wrong. Service charges are not considered tips under FLSA rules within the US. Many states and local jurisdictions have special rules for tipped wages, how they're taxed and those taxes are collected, and service charges are not included in that definition.
https://www.dov.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa
Nice reading comprehension. The TIP is a service charge. You got that backwards buddy. So a service charge and a tip is service charge x2. Or you're admitting that a tip is only for "above and beyond thanks", in which case it's not mandatory and this is again a scam.
You might want to read it again
A place implementing a service charge cannot classify it as a tip, even if it's 100% passed onto the employee... a mandatory charge is not a tip, even if the restaurant encourages you to treat it that way. Certain states and jurisdictions tax tips differently than regular wages, and service charges are wages, not tips.
A tip is money paid directly to the worker providing the service. The restaurant can't keep any part of it. They are not taxed on it, either as sales tax or income tax. That money is only counted as income to the worker.
This service fee was subject to sales tax. It will also be subject to income tax by the restaurant. The restaurant gets to keep as much of it as they want.
"Mandatory gratuities" are tips that the restaurant obligates the customer pay to the waitstaff. Where these are charged, you are not allowed to stiff the waitstaff. The restaurant cannot keep any part of that gratuity.
Tips/gratuities and service fees are not the same thing at all.
I'm not talking the law, I'm talking what the tip actually is in practice. It's the service charge. You're paying for the server to serve you. The tip isn't for the food. It for the server serving. Just because you've been conned and guilted into accepting this as normal doesn't make it right. And just because it's taxed doesn't mean it's still not extra income to the resturaunt. Would it be ok if I mugged you but paid taxes on the money and gave it a cutesy name?
A "tip" is for the server serving.
A "mandatory gratuity" is for the server serving.
A "service fee" is for the restaurant existing. Service fees do not go directly to the staff. The restaurant keeps most of that service fee.
I mentioned taxes not to suggest that the practice is legitimate, but to demonstrate that the money is income to the restaurant. Tips are not income to the restaurant. Tips are income only to the staff.
I acknowledge that there is no significant distinction to the customer between a tip and a service fee, but there is a highly relevant distinction between the two for the restaurant and the server. The service fee this restaurant is charging is money stolen from its staff.
This restaurant could support its workers by adding a mandatory gratuity to the bill, in which case I would agree that no tips should be paid. But a service charge is not a tip. A service charge is not a gratuity. A service charge is not paid to the servers. A service charge is kept by the restaurant.
Allegedly
But If that's the reality, I feel no need to add a tip.
They probably pay $1/hr over minimum tipped wages. About $0.75 of that $17.22 fee goes to paying that increased wage, and the rest is pocketed.
If they wanted to subsidize worker wages, they would include a mandatory gratuity rather than a service fee. Gratuities are passed directly to workers.
This is truly scummy behavior.
Yeah that's a pretty shit reason to levy this fee unsuspectingly.
In Australia this would be illegal drip pricing. JUST INCLUDE EVERYTHING IN THE PRICE OF THE FOOD! Is it so hard?
Absolutely wild you also don't add tax in the price in the US.
Is it too much to ask to just be told the price upfront on the menu?
Paying for servers based off of the price of the food just doesn’t make sense to me. If I order a super expensive caviar and super expensive bottle of wine the staff would be paid more than another server with large party that only orders inexpensive drinks. The second server would be paid less for doing more work.
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order.
On a side note if the server has to do something like prepare a salad table side or flambé a dessert they should get a bonus for doing that.
I worked as a server at olive garden many years ago. They famously had their soup, salad, and breadsticks deal for like $6 something. People would run us ragged getting more of each thing. And we'd be lucky to get a $1 or 2 because the price was so low, but it was vastly more work than regular food.
Where I live, there's no separate minimum wage for tipped positions. It's the same as the regular minimum wage. Even so, it's still customary to tip, but just for some jobs. It's never made sense to me that it's customary to tip a Doordash driver but not a casual FedEx or UPS employee when the latter likely has more work to do and stricter deadlines to do it.
Do you want corporate efforts to reduce delivery driver wages and processes to demand you pay their wages through delivery tips? Because I am sure are ready to go on this endeavor as soon as you want.
As far as I know, some of the casual/seasonal drivers (extra delivery drivers for holiday deliveries) don't get paid much more than minimum wage. I'm not talking about the unionized employees.
My overall point was that there's many jobs that get paid minimum wage, so why are only some of them tipped? It would be more consistent to either be all tipped, or not tipped.
It’s not going to the server, not unless the city has a minimum wage, or something. But any thing over that is 100% going to managment’s coffers.
ALL cities in all states have a minimum wage for all workers. By federal law
Yes. But some cities (or states, even,) specify another-higher minimum.
Since you want to be pedantic… most cities don’t have a minimum wage established; deferring instead to federal or state law.
18% service charge and then still ask for tips? Fuck all of this, this is a scam and refuse to pay this shit.
Based on the bottom of the receipt i would have said to the server something like "great, it says right here no need to tip"
What a lovely way to ensure that your customers will never return.
How about just raising prices since it is a cost of running the business.
Exactly, it's a linear extra cost so just bump all the prices that much.
But if you tell the customer how much things cost they won't buy as much.
It's just layer upon layer of dishonesty. The only time businesses get honest is when the government forces them to.
In a vacuum that would be fine. But in the current culture that likely wouldn’t overcome the tipping standard/culture and may just drive customers away thinking the prices are too high. Unless you have a huge blatant no tipping sign all over the place.
This isn’t too indigestible as it stands provided the wait staff understand they are likely to only get a tip for excellent service.
But to do this on top of an 11 dollar cannoli. That’s a bit different too. I hope it was like a dozen cannolis.
LOL
This is probably a hotel or resort. $4 cookie and $6 oj are the giveaways .
$11 cannoli etc.
Why have a service fee at all then?
Just raise the prices and use the extra income to pay the employees better if that's really your intention.
People won't get upset about the tip on top of it if you don't already have a "service charge" sectioned off in the receipt.
It's so that they can deceitfully advertise prices which are lower than the real price.
I believe this is totally illegal in the EU (because they're obligated to list prices and all charges, fully, upfront and that even includes taxes) but I guess that in the US there are States were it's either not illegal or has never been challenge in court.
I had a service charge like that added in Rome once. It is most likely illegal, but Rome is a pretty lawless place as it is where everybody tries to scam you all the time, so I didn't bother spending time arguing it and getting all worked up about a couple of euros during my holiday, just avoided the place thereafter. I know that's probably what they're counting on ...
Oh yeah, I live in Portugal and here too foreign tourists are natural targets for scammy shit. It's not too much but there are certainly bad actors who will take advantage of people who don't speak the local language and don't know their rights.
However I suspect it's a lot worse when some kinds of scams are actually legal.
Oh yes, the "coperto" or cover charge. Restaurants that are worth going to will tell you upfront about whether they charge you that and how much. Tourist traps will just put a small sign somewhere on the premises that informs you of their ass-pull fee.
I went to a small café in Venice and had a cup of coffee for 4€. They charged me a fixed 14€ coperto.
Coperto is perfectly legal and the norm everywhere. It would be clearly mentioned on the menu, typically at the bottom of every page and it is around a couple bucks per person. It's for the bread and bread sticks you get on the table, water and electricity to wash cutlery and plates you use, and to pay for serving stuff and rent. Why not included in the price of that pizza you might ask? Because I might order that pizza to take away and not use all of the above.
Some touristy places take advantage of it, doesn't make sense for a coffee in Venice (though I'm not surprised). A couple of bucks that op was charged at a restaurant in Rome on the other hand, 100% expected everywhere in Italy.
Source, am from there.
So that shit is actually legal in Italy?
In that case I was totaly wrong on my belief on it not being legal in the EU.
I just read about coperto here, and I don't think that was it. I'm pretty sure it said "Servizio" on the bill, and it was a percentage on top of the price of what we ordered.
In my country (in the EU) usually if a service charge is added on top of the order, it's because that particular place doesn't accept tips.
That would be illegal in the EU country where I live (Belgium). Here the rule is that the advertised price must always include any mandatory charges, like VAT and service charges, so that advertised price = price the consumer would have to pay.
Source: https://economie.fgov.be/nl/themas/verkoop/prijsbeleid/prijsaanduiding
Translation:
Further evidence that America isn't a legal country.
I the s legal most places in the US, some big cities like New York City have outlawed it.
Look at how the tips were calculated. They were based on a bill of $95.65, the price of the meal before the service fee.
This service fee allowed them to increase the price of the meal by 18% without increasing the calculated tip by 18%.
They are stiffing their employees.
Edit: A $100 check would have an expected, 15% tip of $15. A $118 check would have an expected 15% tip of $17.70. What they are doing lets them calculate a 15%, $15 tip on a $118 bill. They are "stealing" $2.70 worth of tips on every $100 worth of sales.
Alternative option: the service fee is the tip because there's no way I'm paying more than what's on that bill.
That just fucks over the waitstaff without harming the business at all.
Best option is to walk out as soon as you see notice of a service fee. It should be printed on the menu or a sign posted on entry.
They're already selling lemonade for $6. The sky is clearly the limit.
If the service charge is so they can pay the employees better, I guess they don't need a tip on top of that unless they went above and beyond their basic duties. Like what a tip should be for
The entire service fee thing is fraud at this point. Undercutting wages and skimming profits for owners off the backs of their employees.
I know it's been happening forever but this shit has been escalating exponentially.
It's to make you mad at their employees
It's failing. I'm just mad at the employer.
Because you're not a moron.
This is for Fox News watching Grannies to look at and go "Them libruls are making my food expensice because dey don't wanna git no jerbs"
Possibly illegal, depending on your local laws.
If it is legal, contact your congressman (local, state, national) because it sure as hell needs to be illegal.
Very unlikely. There's a statement at the bottom that explains what the fee is. There's a QR code at the top for more information, which OP cut off.
I doubt they went through the effort of updating their POS system, providing links to info on the receipt, and chose not to post a sign or put a note on the menu. Everywhere I have been with a service fee like this posts it, which would negate any legal issue.
Caveat emptor.
It's illegal if the fact that a service fee would be added wasn't shared before ordering (on the menu / by the waiter /...)
Possibly. Local laws vary heavily, and could limit hidden fees like these. If the franchise is in one of these places, but the parent chain is not, it could easily be implemented despite being illegal. It's a similar case if the local operator didn't have the required notices in the required way, since it would be done separately. Not necessarily out of malice, but a ton of places simply do not run a tight ship. The receipt is absolutely not the place these notices are required; that's just a convenience.
It's also possible that the POS has a bunch of options that can easily be set by management without involving lawyers. A required tip (often for large groups, but not always) is an easy use case for this. So are the various messages, including the tipping scale, or adding a promotional QR code (e.g. scan the code to fill out a survey and get $5 off your next visit)
In any event, I stand behind my advice- check if it's illegal, and push to make it illegal.
Basically, they just raised their prices by 18% and blamed it on the greedy, useless employees. I don't know why businesses bother selflessly "creating jobs" if they are so much trouble. Shouldn't those be the first things to cut to make their business more efficient under capitalism? Stop doing charity work and run the business yourself.
Probably better than expecting customers to tip voluntarily
Oh wait, they do that too
I hope their customers are exclusively people who support the the below minimum wage for servers law.
No, it's worse than that.
Look at how the tips are calculated. They use the base bill of 95.60, not the bill after the service charge has been applied.
If they rolled an 18% increase into their prices, the calculated tip would also rise 18%. But it didn't.
So in addition to effectively raising their prices and blaming their employees for it, they are also stiffing their employees by low-balling their tip calculations.
Actually, what I'm saying was that there shouldn't be a need for a tip at all. That 18% service charge is for services rendered outside of the production of the product, meaning the server, cashier, etc. In most countries that's rolled into the cost of the product, not a separate charge. In the US, that's paid for through tips instead. What they're doing is trying to double dip. They want to keep the money that normally would go to paying the service staff a wage without raising advertised prices and also have a separate tip to actually pay them.
This is a classic bait and switch where advertised price is not what you actually pay. Doesn't matter if they put a little sign to cover their legal obligations, it's still disingenuous to advertise one price and charge another. Tipping and taxes are common knowledge in the US as being added on after, but a service charge in addition to tipping is not and most people will assume that the service charge is a tip and won't also tip whereas it doesn't go directly to the service staff like a tip does. So likely in this place, the service staff just gets their $2.13/hr or whatever the tipped minimum is there, and a few dollars here and there in actual tips but doesn't get any of that 18% unless tips don't cover the required hourly $5.12 tip credit.
So they need to choose. Raise your prices for more profit and keep tipping, raise your prices to pay your service staff and do away with tipping, or keep your prices lower and risk tipping not covering the minimum wage tip credit.
I would simply not go to that restaurant anymore and very plainly let them know why. This is greed and I will not reward it.
Much like when I place a to go order and go pick up the order and the POS (point of sale not piece of shit if you’re wondering) system pops up that tip screen. You didn’t do anything worthy of a tip so I will not be tipping you. Now if for example when I get there they apply some discount I wasn’t aware of that makes my bill cheaper, I’ll tip for that. Throw in some extra cheese sauce, tip. Anything above and beyond, tip. Just ring me up and hand me my food, yeah no tip.
It's this (the service charge) or they raise prices across the menu. Some people prefer this, some people prefer the added cost baked in.
Personally I think the service charge is a little deceptive because you are hit with an unexpected expense at the end of your meal. Even if they're very up front about the charge most people won't be automatically calculating the 18% extra on whatever they're spending, they're just going to look at the price on the menu.
Citation needed.
I think those people own restaurants
They have raise prices across the menu, by 18% to be more specific.
Segregating the price increase as "service fee" is only so that they can deceitfully advertise their prices a lower than they really are, a form of Consumer Fraud (I believe this one is a form of Bait & Switch)
Look at the calculated tips. They are based on $95.60, the price of the meal before the 18% service charge.
If they raise their prices by 18%, they would have to raise their tip calculation by 18%.
They are stiffing their employees.
You realize that giving you 5% off so you will tip 15% is still greed though right? The greed is always there, it's just your perception of how it's delivered. We expect a little foreplay with our greed.
I didn’t say I was giving them 15%. I give 18% for full service. But a buck or two for something like this.
Oh boy, the unlawfulness of USA. This would be clearly illegal in EU, as misleading pricing.
Even if stated there's an 18% extra fee, I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to state prices exclusively without it.
I would simply refuse to pay that fee if it was here, and report them to authorities.
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In America, the restaurant would have to post this on the menu. Thus we have fine-print on our menus. God bless the USA.
It's nice to hear the EU doesn't let that crap slide.
Where is this common? I know you often see it in scummy tourist traps, but besides that I've not seen something like it.
I believe you most often see this in scummy tourist traps.
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I don't return to restaurants that pull this bullshit. Raise your menu prices to provide a living wage or take a hit to your profits.
Or, you know maybe the owner could live without a 5th cottage possibly?? naaaaaaa
That would be the 'take a hit to profits.' Yeah, I don't expect that either. What's annoying is that it is always the very profitable douche bag restaurants that do this. Most restaurants struggle to make ends meat.
Are restaurants just poorly managed, or is there another reason why they can't pay their employees a living wage when their markup is like 400-1000%?
Restaurants have notoriously thin margins. I'm not defending this bill, and there are definitely awful practices out there, but it ain't easy. Even a $34 dollar steak only kind of covers all the ancillary costs that make it happen.
The biggest issue with the crunch we have going on is that food (prepared or otherwise) should be way more expensive, and that shouldn't be an issue because most people should be making way more money. All of those should/shouldn'ts got way out of whack over the course of decades, and the circus only continued because people found crappy ways to keep it going.
It's a lot of industries. Construction is a great example. The developers make money. The material vendors make money. The builders make money. The sub contractors who actually put the parts together get haggled on invoices and take the lower amount because they have payroll to make and equipment loans to pay. Loans that are happily given out because the equipment can be easily repossessed.
It's a very good thing everything is correcting, but it's going to be an ugly process as workers get their due and pass the burden on to the small business owners.
Sounds like sit down restaurant menus should reflect the actual costs including waitstaff then like any fast food place is able to do.
Help me understand.
Assuming restaurants have the same overhead as any other business: rent, staff, insurance, maybe equipment (manufacturing, etc.), what else?
They don't have expenses like vehicles, tariffs on imported goods, the cost to fly staff out for conferences, tech costs, and so on.
The only difference is the product they bring in, and the product they put out.
As a consumer, who doesn't get the benefit of industry discounts or high-volume prices, making food is really inexpensive.
When I see a restaurant, for example, selling pasta with marinara sauce for $15-20 a plate, I'm curious to know why they have to beg to cover costs. You can make the same dish for a family of four for under $3, and save $100 you'd spend getting the same dish at a restaurant.
So, again, if the cost of ingredients allows for such a significant markup, well beyond what most other businesses are able to get away with, why are restaurants having to charge "service fees" on top of tips?
It's the behind the scenes that cause a lot of the markup. There might be only two or three food service providers in your area. Food Service Company A has the same prices as Food Service Company B and C. There is no real competition to force prices down for restaurants.
If you are a franchise restaurant, you have to pay franchise fees, buy your all products from the franchise, work within the certain parameters, etc. There is no real way to find ways to drive down prices since your prices are set by the franchise through the prices of the product, corporate oversight, etc.
Great points!
So I'm stretching it a bit because at the end of the day this really does apply to more than restaurants, but the other commenter had it right.
Things like rent, insurance, etc go into the cost for well above the plate. So the ingredients are one thing, but you have to make up the cost of rent, paying the staff when there's low customer volume, all the insane amount of costs that go into running a business. That server has to make up for the cost of printing menus and delivering them by mail.
None of this is the servers fault, who should get a fair wage, but it all adds up in a way that makes it hard for the owner. In fact, the person who sold them the grills, refrigerators, and all the other equipment, knows exactly and empirically how hard it is and sets their prices accordingly.
And it's not like that company's delivery drivers, techs, and fabrication workers also don't deserve a wage. Or the Tyson folks that are plucking the chicken delivered.
The issue is, at the end of the day, those companies probably should be less profitable. But instead of accepting that, we put all of the companies that make all the stuff that run that restaurant into bigger companies that are now part of mutual funds, and they sell it out knowing they can grab it back if it goes under.
So you might be able to get away with making a few plates and some money, but trying turning it into something that will let you pay your rent and put your kids into a school. "Bob's Burgers" is pretty true to life.
This is how to tell someone you haven't checked grocery prices lately without actually telling them you haven't checked grocery prices lately. A box of mediocre pasta alone is going to cost you $1.75. A jar of Preggo will run you another 2.50. So 4.25 for an I hate life spaghetti and marinara meal.
The sauce they make probably doesn't come out of a jar of reconstituted tomato paste and dried seasonings either.
If you buy decent ingredients you are looking at $3 for the pasta and $9 for the sauce. Or $12 for an "ok for a home cook" spaghetti meal with no protein.
Restaurant serving sizes (for better or worse) are usually 2x+ larger than you would serve at home. Rent isn't free for the restaurant either. Or labor. Or utilities. Or equipment. Etc. General rule of thumb is that a restaurant needs to charge 3x raw food costs to cover expenses.
So your I hate life pasta would need to be priced at $6.50 and your ok for home but not something I would be happy with getting at a restaurant pasta would need to be priced at $18.
I'm going to assume you don't cook at home.
No restaurant worth eating at buys packaged pasta, or packaged bread/buns, or canned sauce.
Flour is cheap, like really cheap. If a restaurant is buying real ingredients, then they are spending pennies and charging tens of dollars.
I highly disagree. I've never left a restaurant "full", even after spending enough to buy a months worth of real food ingredients.
This I agree with. Is rent, labor, equipment at a restaurant significantly more than other places of work? Paying min wage doesn't exactly eat through your margins.
That whooshing sound, in case you were curious, was the point sailing right over your head.
I worked at a pizza shop way back ages ago (early 2000's), but I think the formula is generally the same. Food costs they would shoot for 33%, labor ended up being around 33%, the rest was overhead for the facility (rent, AC, etc) and profit.
I think that's actually a pretty fair amount of profit in that. But that was almost 20 years ago. I feel like the formula is likely similar though.
So way late, but no that's shifted a lot. This is anecdotal but does speak to a lot of industries: my understanding is that pizza shops now live or die by cheese prices.
Labor, while fluctuating, doesn't move a ton month to month. Dairy can.
That's like I said anecdotal, but broadly, real-estate, equipment purchase/finacince has all been so hyper optimized it squeezes the business owners out.
It doesn't matter the market. PIZZAOVEN-XL will sell it to you, let you leverage payments against your home equity, grab it back and resell it. They can deal with the cash flow issue. They are "assembled in America". They don't care if you go out of business. They'll do it again for the same person that moves into the same space trying to do the. Exact. Same. Thing.
And I'm not trying to draw a blanket statement across all industries. I'm just saying the wheels that make every industry move are smarter and literally longer lived than anyone starting out, and there's a reason "John deer" and "John deer finance" are seperate companies.
Cheap sub contractors need so much constant control to make sure things are delivered on spec that it is almost like it costs more than to hire the more expensive company with a reputation for solid work
Saw exactly this when I was doing commissioning for a large municipality. No matter how tight the specs were, some of these knuckleheads would do it their own way and get mad when we forced them to do it right.
Some of them would just claim bankruptcy if the mistake was big enough.
Pro-tip, friends: don't pick the lowest cost of construction bids, I guaran-fucking-tee it'll cost you more than you saved. And, anyone who says they "meet code" is really saying they do the bare minimum required.
Completely fuck this shit.
$16.25 for a kids size pasta dish?
I feel like I have seen multiple receipts from this same place, likely posted by the same person, because I remember noting $16 Kids Shells on some other thread months ago.
Seems odd. They should really stop going.
Try the pasta...
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The $5.00 glass of lemonade is ridiculous. Water and a small scoop of powdered flavoring/sweetener costs them about a quarter.
Straight up fees like that should not be legal, if they even are in that location.
They should instead just add 18% to every menu item since it applies to everything anyways.
As it is right now advertising their cannoli for $11.00 is a straight up lie since it's really $12.98. They simply don't because they want to hide the actual cost and make their menu appear to be cheaper so you cant walk out until after you've ordered and eaten.
Also if got a bill with an 18% service charge I would definitely not tip, since tips are supposed to adjust for the low wages anyways.
These prices are crazy. Lemonade costs as much as a beer. Drip coffee for $5. One cookie for $4. Over $15 for a kid's plate. Geeze.
Yesterday I bought some alcohol that was literally cheaper than the water they were selling.
My man never cheap out on the liquor
Meh. It was a good time. D&D is better with alcohol.
I actually support phasing tips out for service fees, less dodgy and less influenced by cognitive biases from customers toward certain genders or ethnicities of staff.
There's no need for a service fee, just increase the prices of everything by 18% or whatever. It's more honest that way instead of listing one price and then springing a hidden fee on people at checkout. Part of why this particular example is so dodgy is they seem to be fishing for a service fee and a tip, which just seems like double dipping on hidden fees.
You could go hog wild and include tax in the prices too. Then the price of an item could be the price of an item instead of the start of a maths quiz.
Wild to me that theres a whole country out there that has so much influence over my life (an entire ocean away) and they don't know how much their meal will be before the cheque comes. Incredible.
But we need every price to end in .99! /S
It’s important to require disclosure of the service fee. In my experience usually listed at the bottom of the menu. I know at least in some instances there are crowdsourced master lists of restaurants with hidden fees, and enforcement of disclosure requirements seems to have stepped up.
Roll it into the prices then. Any mandatory fee is a cost of doing business, don't make it look like your food costs less than it really does. Only taxes should be separate.
It's a USA thing. Other places often have rules that say the price advertised (on menu, website, in store) is the price the customer pays, all fees and taxes included.
Yeah in Australia restaurants are allowed to have a service fee only if it's applied on select days (e.g. weekends and public holidays, but not every single day of the week) and they clearly display the conditions of the service fee "at least as prominently as the most prominent price on the menu". Otherwise, they have to roll in any fees into the main advertised price.
Yeah, but phasing out should probably be some form of cross tapering, not a decently sized service charge and the same size "suggested tip" on top.
Add to the fact all the food in the restaurant is much higher in caloric intake, sodium and sugar than any meal you could prepare at home. You get to have some wonderful heart disease with a side of stress. Hardly worth going out to restaurants anymore.
That's the whole point of going to a restaurant. So you can convince yourself that the food is somewhat healthy, without seeing all the salt, sugar and fat they put in it.
https://youtu.be/YUeEknfATJ0?t=30
I thought the point of going to a reastaurant was eating tasty food. No one's lying to themselves about reastaurant food being healthy.
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Kids shells are $16 each? Fuck this place.
Yeah, it looks like this person just went to an overpriced restaurant.
Dining at the Ritz and then throwing a fit over your bill is... idk, man. Maybe you should have walked out before ordering a $6 glass of lemonade.
Restaurant: $11 cannelloni and $6 beer.
Lemmy: fuck the rich for paying these high prices!
What are "kids shells"?
CC: @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
Likely a kids pasta shell dish.
The real crime here is $125 for bread and pasta..
I was gonna say "The real crime is $11 for a fucking cannoli". I could get two, large, freshly made cannolis in downtown NYC for about $7.
$16.25 for each "kids shells"
And almost $5 for drip coffee
It does seem tipping is American culture? Never heard this accross SEA and China. Who in the world would put suggested tip in the bill?
In 2019, I went to Shanghai to attend my cousin's wedding and one thing he told me before going is that I should not tip under any circumstance. It's regarded as an insult to the service provider because you insinuate that they are unable to pay their employees well enough.
The UK has been infected with service charges but it's extremely common to either a) have it removed from the bill, as there is no obligation to pay it, or b) forego the tip because of it.
It very much is and suggested tips seems to be common from what i heard
It is so engrained into society that suggested tip amounts on the receipt are welcomed, because then you don't need to do the math
You're taking my 18% to pay them living wages, they they don't need tips.
$11 canoli? $16.25 kids shells?
Screw that place
$18.25 for a kids meal, $6 for lemonade is ridiculous. Don't walk, run away!
The lemonade is the same price as a beer 🤣
Ok where is this so we can avoid it?
So the patron not only pays for the food/service, but there's a separate fee to pay for ALL employees living wages??
If this trend continues the customers will end up making the food too!? Lol, I would talk to the manager for sure.
It's crazy how it's your job to pay the workers when you're not employing them. Just put the damn living wage into the price of the food, there, done. I'm going to a restaurant to eat stuff, not to haggle the worth of someone's work.
But but but if customers know how much it's going to cost ahead of time, they might decide to go somewhere else!
Well you are employeeing them, in that you're exchanging your money for the product of their labor, it just passes through a few hands to get to them.
In the UK we tend not to tip if there's a service charge.
If they add on a service charge at a bar. I always ask them to remove it. A service charge for me walking to the counter and ordering a drink.... Really!
In Spain we don't generally tip at all.
Neither do we in Denmark. I think that’s generally how Europe works. The price on the menu is the price you will be expected to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I have a restaurant or bar experience out of the ordinary or just have pleasant time with the staff I will tip. Otherwise I won’t, at it will be perfectly fine for everyone.
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The rip is that service charges tend to be higher than the tip. I've always worked to 10% all my life, or I'll add 10% and then round up to a nice sounding number. This was even considered reasonable in a lot of US places back in the early 90's, but these days restaurants typically set their service charges at 12.5% or higher.
That might be fine; if the service is actually good I won't mind, but if it's just half assed service and the food isn't great then I'll kick up a stink.
I mean, I probably won't, but I'll fantasise about doing it while in the shower for a few days after.
The OP should have shared the restaurant, what a dick head of an owner
$11 for a cannoli? Gotta lotta nerve with that price!
To be honest restaurants became so expensive so long ago that we just stopped going to them. I cant even remember when that was, but it was more than 5 years ago for sure. And things sound like theyve gotten a lot worse since then so I cant see us ever going back.
The Ticketmaster economy
I would have not paid the 18% fee and let them explain it to the cops when they arrived. I guarantee that’s not posted anywhere that they do that- so…
False advertising.
I frequently see "an 18% gratuity charge will be applied to parties of 6 or more" on menus. It's possible that this was posted and OP just missed it.
Edit: JK just read the text at the bottom where it calls it out as not a gratuity.
It’s not a gratuity, but restaurants like this often don’t expect tips either. At least in my area.
Putting in a -18% tip when I swipe my credit card.
Places that do this will have fine print at the bottom of their menu mentioning the charge so they can avoid legal issues.
Germany:
In many jurisdictions it’s not legal to charge this fee unless it’s advertised when ordering such as on the menu or posted signage.
If this was my post, I'd be circling the whole receipt.
fuck tipping culture. Why I never dine in anywhere, unless its a one off social event.
When will people have had enough and demand change? I stopped going to restaurants entirely due to bs charges like this & tipping culture.
I would, however, happily eat at an establishment with higher prices if they paid thier employees well & had accurate menu pricing.
About 95% of restaurants I've been to in Europe have lower prices than this receipt and don't expect a tip.
WTF is going on over there?
Unrestrained capitalism
AKA greed.
Image Transcription: Text and Image
A receipt from a restaurant. A white circle was marked up on the photo and inside reads the text
18% Service Charge (18.00%)
$17.22
The full receipt text shown is as follows.
Ordered: 11/11/23 6:31 PM
GARLIC BREAD $4.90
2 KIDS SHELLS $32.50
FUSILLI $20.75
CANNOLI $11.00
LEMONADE $6.00
DRIP COFFEE $4.50
2 DRAFT BEER $12.00
CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE $4.00
18% Service Charge (18.00%)
$17.22
Subtotal $112.87
Tax $10.73
Total $123.60
Cash -$123.60
Amount Due $0.00
------------------------------------------
Suggested Tip:
8%: (Tip $7.65 Total $131.25)
10%: (Tip $9.56 Total $133.16)
12%: (Tip $11.48 Total $135.08)
15%: (Tip $14.35 Total $137.95)
Tip percentages are based on the check price before discounts and taxes.
The service charge is not a tip or gratuity, and is an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps facilitate a higher living base wage for all of our employees. Please scan the QR code at the top of the receipt for additional information, or speak with a manager.
Really. What’s the new base wage? And if there’s better wage, the tip should be commensurately reduced.
Great! I don't need to tip because they already pay their employees a fair wage.
Capitalists when 10% taxes vs capitalists when 18% fee
I've seen this at restaurants serving more than a given number of people. Did you attend a dinner with a large group?
I've been seeing it more regardless of group size. I went to a restauraunt alone and they had the audacity to charge a service fee and ask for a fucking tip
I wouldve tipped more than the service charge! So I gave nothing instead
That is super frustrating. Especially if the "service charge" isn't really going to pay the staff a living wage. I'd be curious to hear from someone that works in a restaurant that does this whether or not they are actually being paid better after it has been implemented or if it is just cash grab by the individual restaurant owner/operator. Any takers?
Refuse to pay the service charge, offer the amount minus the charge.
This why even today, cash is king. With cash you can just leave the amount and they can take it or leave it.
Look, it's me never returning
What kind of time warp is this though where tipping recs start at 8%. I never see that anymore.
That 8% would actually be 26% given there is an auto 18% added already.
Hard to say. A lot of places don't pass these service charges to the servers. They don't want you doing that kind of math.
That assumes the 18% goes directly to your server.
Besides from a extra fee (which would be illegal in my country), who tf could afford 32$+18%+taxes for two bowls of pasta? At my local italian restaurant you get 2 bowls spagethi for 20€ (including taxes)
A kids size no less. Actually insane.
Need a tip at the bottom - it's a LOT of hard work to process those mandatory service charges!
Because reprinting the menu is too expensive. 😢
Printing a menu means they can't constantly alter the price. Did I say alter? I should have said raise.
Hey, Restaurant Bill. What did you kill, Restaurant Bill?
Are they charging tax on the service charge too?
Yeah they sure are
However the tip is based before the service charge. The United States is a hellhole
I think that's the most surprising part. With how greedy they seem, I would have expected the tip recommendations to be based on the subtotal or total.
Many restaurants clearly state "we add gratuity of x% to tables of 5 or more". Or something similar. It's an asshole move not to share this until you get the bill, but if they tell you ahead of time, I think it's fair.
Yeah for 5 adults. This is two adults and two kids meals.
But this isn't gratuity. The bottom of the bill clearly implies they expect you to tip 11.5% ON TOP of the 18% service fee.
I'm honestly surprised the percentage options they offer are so low. In NYC they start at 20%, and usually go 20% 25% 30%. I've even seen them start at 22%
Do you know how much garlic bread I can make for $5? A bunch, and fucking good too!
Shit on their bathroom bro
I recently learned you can have this charge removed.
Care to elaborate
According to Brian Kim from ClearValueTax, you can simply ask to have this removed from the bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeODA4NxiPI
I imagine if it's not disclosed clearly before you order, you can dispute it with your bank/cc company. If it is, and you still decide to give that company business, then I guess that's on you.
If you pay with your CC and sign the receipt after seeing the total, you’re going to have a very hard time getting it removed.