Windows 11 is getting a new start menu. EDIT: this replaces the "all apps" page by default, not the home screem

Blisterexe@lemmy.zip to Technology@lemmy.world – 375 points –

More info about it here: https://www.ghacks.net/2024/08/13/windows-11-start-menu-is-getting-a-new-layout-to-organize-your-apps/

I love how microsoft never learns their lessons.

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Ugh, fine Microsoft. I'll finish my migration to Linux this weekend.

I tried it but stopped once I realised there was no hdr support :(

There is HDR support. At least Plasma 6 supports it.

Some games support it on windows but not Linux. The list is small. That said, windows HDR support is garbage ime. I don't feel like there's a good option that's set and forget in any case.

Plasma/wayland integration is coming along but it's not there yet for HDR in gaming.

I just said screw it and live without it. Forgot i cared after 20min.

How do you know and learn this stuff? i dont even know what "plasma" is and why you need it.

"Just use linux" doesnt help in this scenario i use it for productivity for the past 5 years but i havent felt ive really learned shit.

How do you learn this stuff?

The same way you got your knowledge about Windows 🙂

But I dont know anything about windows drivers?

Plasma is the desktop environment developed by KDE. It's for example desktop environment used by SteamOS 3.

As to how you learn this stuff: looking things up on the search engine of your choice helps. Not trying to be rude here, but you could have found all of that out yourself by searching for "plasma Linux": https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=plasma%20linux

Also the arch wiki. There you can find all the info you could ever ask for.

" just use Linux" is a great piece of advice for most people because most people don't care about the OS they use. They just use it. And they shouldn't need to take a course to do so. Of course you are missing some things with this.

If you want more than you will need to go out and actively look for it

Sorry i didnt explain myself well and no dont worry youre not being rude.

My point wasn't, "what is this i dont know please tell me" but more in line with "how do you guys keep on top of this information and know whats current"

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It literally only exists on a single desktop environment and even then it's practically beta. On my TV it just shows everyhing as green and purple when I enable HDR.

I love linux and want it to keep improving but man people need to stop circlejerking linux so much when it comes to people using windows when it suits their needs

It's true that HDR support is virtually non-existent being limited to very recent KDE wayland with bleeding edge everything and AMD hardware. Basically .33 * 0.05 * 0.3 or like 1/2 of 1% of Linux users.

It's also true that is a weird ass thing to chose a desktop OS for.

I think gnome have just added support as well

Someone made a post about enabling HDR support on Linux a day or two ago. Times have changed, and you might want to look into it again.

(I don't have HDR monitors, but it works on my OLED Steam Deck.)

The Steam Deck is an exception to the rule, unfortunately. Game mode runs using Gamescope as the compositor, which allows it to directly manage rendering surfaces and support HDR output.

Support for HDR under a regular DE is still either nonexistent or a work-in-progress last I checked.

It's been a hot minute, but they might have gotten HDR through some gamescope trickery. Sounds vaguely familiar...

It takes some fiddling, but I've been using HDR on Linux since Plasma 6 came out. If you don't have an AMD GPU it would probably be really difficult to set up though.

I use Wayland/Plasma6 with a 6800xt and it just works out of the box (OpenSuse TW)

Can't miss what I've never had, suppose I'm lucky there - HDR might as well not exist (in my mind) until it does exist on GNU+Linux.

It gives a nice visual pop but in terms of playing, there's no edge to it over standard.

Also it does exist but implementation is defined by the program which usually is only set up for the windows implementation. So you can wine the windows version of the program if you want it. I'm sure proton will figure something out soon.

Unpopular opinion: HDR is overrated and causes more eye fatigue.

I guess it really is an unpopular opion. Lol. I have have eye fatigue issues with HDR too, though.

I also can't watch 3D for more than 5 minutes without getting a migraine. I don't know enough about how the display works to know why. Both feel like it is trying to fool my eyes and my brain doesn't like it. Maybe my eyes/brain get fatigued trying to play along. Some types of HDR seem to bother me more than others. I can watch an HDR movie mostly fine.

With more room for ads, I hope?!

"Why are you using Firefox? Didn't you know edge is better?

Are you sure you don't want to try edge?

I'll fuckin murder you if you don't launch edge right now. "

-windows these days.

ha, oh look another revision no one asked for.

i had to use this recently, and its all kinds of useless now. the 'search' didnt find my installed app, the 'all apps' list is a click or two in, and then absurdly inefficiently styled.. the win98 start menu was easier for me to navigate.

Nobody asks for mayor UI changes, nothing would change if you wait for that.

sometimes things that are not broken need no fixing...

unless youre some middle management pos attempting to make your mark in a terrible corporate environment

Caves are perfect, why change anything?

We have always done it like this!

All terrible arguments.

Are you genuinely arguing that this start menu is better?

Many here do, others feel like they are the gold standard. And no, I did not if you actually read what I said.

Every update with these new UI changes seems to increase empty wasted space each time

I love how modern UI = eating up as much space as possible, while displaying as little information as possible. Glad I can watch this shitshow from afar.

It's hard to even take Windows seriously as a business OS when they're shoving this overly padded UI down everyone's throats. Windows 10 supported small task bars, among many other things that Windows 11 doesn't. There seems to be a lot of really tone deaf people at Microsoft working in silos, not really aware of the features people care about in their own product.

I doubt it will happen, but I’m hoping that windows 12 will make windows a more reasonable operating system.

Can’t wait until my work will be able to be done 100% on Linux.

Oh cool, good to see the power button is still on the other side of the fucking menu. You know, the thing that I'm clicking on 90% of the time I'm opening the Start Menu? Why have that easily reachable like in past versions of Windows? Silly me I guess.

This isn't the first time Microsoft has done this, I remember this being a huge gripe for me with Windows 8/8.1

Hey that was when they thought it was also a smart idea to force that shit tablet view on users...

And they did it on Windows Server too, which made even less sense.

You mean you didn't use touch screen monitors on your servers?

I didn't mind it actually. Like I don't mind the GNOME overview or whatever the thing that comes up when you press Meta is called

i love the workflow of gnome, it takes time to get used to but its really nice

Gnome is still a bit quirky to me and I've been running it on my latest install. I still don't get their idea of by default, without extensions, how I'm supposed to use software that requires a tray icon to use.

I guess the difference is that the Gnome overview has been thought out amazingly, has a fantastic search function that actually works, and Gnome takes heavy advantage of their superb implementation of workspaces (virtual desktops).

Gnome doesn't really feel designed for tablets, it feels designed for everything. Hot corners, large click targets, and having good keyboard shortcuts makes it feel good on a desktop, amazing trackpad gestures make it feel at home on a laptop.

Win8 had options scattered everywhere, a search that was just starting to turn bad, and initially did silly things like only let you use one app at a time, no matter your screen size. It was forcing a tablet UX that just felt wrong on a PC.

I think Microsoft were hoping thin and light foldable/tablet devices (that were all the rage at that point) were a good way to sell more windows licenses (thin and lights are weaker hardware so will likely need updated more to keep up with performance demands), hinges are weak points so hardware will be replaced more, all meaning more licenses sold. They were trying to force Windows down this path, IMO. When that failed, they turned to much greater data harvesting, ads, etc.

Come on, it's totally intuitive! Just put your mouse in the top right corner, off the screen, and swipe down to make the "charms" bar slide out from the side.

Wait, what?

Yeach the ui sucked, kinda sucked. I actually kinda liked it on 8.1 . But the one thing windows 8 did right was efficiency. I still remember my update from windows 8 to 10 when witcher 3 on my laptop went from barerly playbale to unplaybale. Sad story.

I found the same and I daily drove Windows 8.1 with OpenShell to the very end of support.

Then you wouldn't notice all the fun and exciting recommendations they have for you! /s

Right click the start button instead

If they didn't take that away.

Just wait. At the rate they're going it won't be long before you're forced to sit through a 30 second full screen ad in order to even open the start menu.

30 Microsoft points have been deducted from your account, and therefore your Windows Personalization settings have been restricted. Please remember to never disparage our Experience Opportunities™ as "ads", our Experience Opportunity Partners™ are valuable members of your family and help you learn about services and products you love and cherish!

For more information, please review the terms of the Microsoft Behavior Agreement you implicitly agreed to by being within 500m of a running Microsoft software product.

I was about to comment this. And to anyone saying they are taking that away we all know how bad they are at removing legacy options so I'm sure this will be here until at least windows 14.

genuine question, why do you click that button? Why not use the physical button on the device?

Software shutdown button presser chiming in.

There's two reasons I tend to use the software button. I know for a fact that clicking "Shut Down" will actually shut down the computer. If I press the hardware button, the computer usually is configured by default to sleep. Yes, I could change this default behaviour on all the devices I use, but then there's the second reason:

From a psychological perspective, I tend to associate the hardware button as a "only use if system is locked up" button.

Yep, if you're in charge of managing hundreds of computers, you don't want to guess at what it'll do. We have our defaults but also have people who make exceptions depending on their own work needs. Tbh, I rarely use that button anyhow though, I right click on the start menu to get that menu instead and use shutdown, restart, or log out.

Further reason, the physical button isn't always in a location that's convenient to push. Sure it's usually accessible, but sometimes it's under a desk or behind a monitor or some other awkward location. Mouse and keyboard by their nature are always located in a conveniently accessible location.

I'm sitting at my desk and my computer tower is out of reach unless I get up and reach over. Gotta showcase that RGB

Win+X > U > U

Shuts down your machine with no mouse required, use U > R if you wanna restart

I just Alt + F4 from the desktop or just press the power button. I always change it to regular old shutdown.

agree on the power button change, unless you have little kids, in which case the button should just be disabled.

I saw other people mentioning managing multiple computers in an offise space. I wouldn't trust that everybody wound configure the power button action.

i don't understand what you mean exactly

Sometimes people manage other computers so it's not practical to configure all of them and you can't trust what people have configured for the power button

Power options: sleep after 5 minutes

Power button action: shutdown

You're welcome

Sorry if you already know but if you can also do win+x to get to shutdown menu

Win+x, u, u shuts down.

Pressing Alt + F4 on the desktop brings up the Shutdown menu. You can fully navigate it using the keyboard. Back in my Windows times I found this more convenient than using the start menu.

I love how, as a Linux user, Windows never adds anything that makes me regret leaving.

How's Linux doing in regards to Nvidia graphics cards these days? I was planning to switch to linux for my next build but wanted to keep my current GPU since its not that old and still solid.

I recommend that you boot your distro of choice from USB and see if it works for you.

You might be surprised.

If it doesn’t work with one, try a different distribution.

I’ve used Linux with nvidia cards and didn’t have issues, but I am not very demanding.

The proprietary drivers got much better, they're really usable without any noticeable issues. There's also an effort to get solid open-source drivers, but these don't work with older cards yet.

Personally I've been using a Nvidia card on Linux for 4 ish years now originally on a 970 which had a few problems but really only with Wayland, x was flawless now I have a 3070 which I haven't had any issues on Wayland with the newer drivers and id say I taxed both fairly hard between gaming and blender

Playing CP2077 and BG3 every day no problem, and running AI models like a champ.

Unless you're living several years in the past, Nvidia drivers aren't much of an issue anymore.

pretty great, i would avoid wayland though, there still seems to be nvidia problems there.

I've got a GTX 1080 Ti and after a couple hours of finagling on initial install of Linux Mint I haven't had any trouble at all. Nvidia ships some proprietary drivers you can use instead of the unofficial open source ones and nvidia-driver-535 has been getting it done no problem.

Other GPU models I can't speak for, as I don't own them, and I see some history of folks having trouble with Nvidia. But I got mine done with barely a hitch.

I run fedora 40 on a desktop and laptop and it's perfect. Installing the drivers through rpm fusion was dead easy, 3 commands in the terminal and done. Wayland is FINALLY there. Fractional scaling is there. Steam games launch fine. I only miss a handful of programs I can't live without. Affinity software suite and a few games that use EAC are the only reason I keep a windows partition installed. After windows 11 bloatware and lag and intrusive ads and useless AI crap Linux is now home for me. Install and dual boot, you will find yourself more and more running in linux because it works great and privacy is nice.

The irony is, unlike the old days - actually AMD (ATI) is recommend for Linux now because the drivers are better.

This is in stark contrast to the fglrx days where that driver was an absolute abortion and NVIDIA was really the only usable one.

Not sure when you started your Linux journey but I avoided AMD for years based on that.

Now the tables have turned but I didn't realize until after I purchased my NUC which has NVIDIA RTX graphics. So I guess I'm stuck on NVIDIA for the foreseeable future

Indeed, that is incredible.

I left Linux 13 years ago and to this day, I have never seen anything to temp me back. And in fairness, they have improved some things in that time

Exact same experience as cutting cable... Can't even remember why I hesitated so long

Looks like someone at Microsoft saw someone's iPad and went "That's what we need! Icons in boxes that need an extra click to be used!" and their MBA boss figures they'll get a bonus for "increasing user engagement" by making everything take two actions instead of one now.

Sigh.

From the linked article:

One interesting thing about it is that clicking on an icon instantly launches the app, without opening the folder.

Isn’t that what start menu icons do already?

Yeah but soon they'll be automatically grouped together into something that looks like folders

Oh for fucks sake, auto categorization is one of the thing I dreaded the most on iOS because it's almost always incorrect and it doesn't fit my usage at all. Hopefully it will be possible to disable this crap.

They want to be as sleek as apple but it comes off as an old man trying to be hip

And maybe I'm using it wrong, but it just...doesn't work. I use spotlight search on my MacBook to find programs and things and it just finds them. It's fast enough to be faster than me opening things off the dock.

I try to use the search on my wife's Win11 computer and half the time it sends me to a website for a program she already has installed.

Like if you want to imitate, even badly, the imitation should at least be functional.

There's a reason they made PowerToys Run. It's miles ahead of the default Windows search experience.

feels to me that people who work on other parts of the OS are getting fed up with the default shell experience to such an extent that they have to build their own skunkwoks solutions

There's a registry key to make it not search online

It still doesn't work very well tho

Apple hasn't innovated in decades... It's anything but sleek if we're talking about macs.

Interesting design but I've literally never used the start menu for the past 5 years I think. I only ever press the windows key and then type the name of the app I need.

PowerToys Run > Start Menu

To my surprise, I even recently discovered that PowerToys is open-source, even though it's made by Microsoft. It really drastically improves the terrible Windows experience. Thankfully I don't have to use Windows at all anymore, but if I had to, PowerToys would be the first thing I'd install.

On Linux (KDE) I enjoy using KRunner

Not even that,I have like 5-10 programs I use regularly and I have those pinned. Only knew they changed that thing due to postings here on Lemmy.

What the fuck is the point of the start button in the middle? Like, did they forget why the space to the right of it even exists.

Yeah, I moved that back the minute I upgraded to 11. It's much better in the bottom left.

That change was absolutely idiotic. It reminds me of that time Apple changed the scroll direction. Who ever asked for any of this?

I've used StartAllBack to get the start menu exactly how I want it.

I dread having to upgrade at work, I set the group policy to deny the upgrade for the moment. They won't allow me to use ASB.

Aw that sucks. My biggest issue is the thickness of the new bar. Wastes so much space

Oh god yes, you can modify it in the registry (or you used to be able to) but then the date/time gets fucked up. I hate W11 so much

I like w11, i just hate the taskbar

I couldn't get past the Taskbar long enough to not hate it unfortunately. I also missed quicklinks, which I use a lot.

What're quick links?

Sorry, it's Quicklaunch.

https://static1.howtogeekimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/02_show_desktop_icon_on_quick_launch_bar.png

I have my most used applications there so I never have to hit the start button.

Doesn't pinned apps on the taskbar work for that same use case? I've just used that instead since Windows 7

Similarly but not quite. I also have stuff pinned, but the quick launch also allows you to have a menu that you can open with a list of apps too. The icons are also much closer together, so in the space of 5 pinned icons, I can have 11 quick launch icons.

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i keep forgetting it's in the middle by default. first thing i did was change the setting to put it back on the left corner.

well they essentially copied the Mac dock for no reason. The icons will still go to the right of start but overall the elements will be centered.

What goes to the left of the center start button?

That's the septic tank to store the waste from enshitification.

Enshittification is when minor UI changes break my boomer brain

In this case the person you were responding to was right. It is where they put their news and weather widget. Which only exists to push people onto Bing. It is annoying, and by default pops up on rollover, not click, so it is trivially easy to accidentally pull up, pumping those Bing engagement numbers.

I don't see how centering it changes that. They could just as easily leave the start menu left aligned and put the widgets button next to it

Makes sense on ultrawides.

Also, a start menu that opens in the centre is technically the best. It's in the most prominent part of the screen, and your mouse typically isn't far from there.

The start button is harder to hit than simply flinging it into the corner though, definitely.

If you're the kind of person who opens the start menu with the Windows key, a centre start menu is only an upgrade IMO.

Makes sense on ultrawides.

In which case, the question becomes: what percentage of users are actually using ultrawides? If it isn't >50%, then the default should be the setting most appropriate to non-ultrawides. Unless you're going to autodetect screen resolution and set the button's location appropriately.

This is not rocket science, but Windows has been blowing it for quite some time now.

Never thought about ultrawide screens, that makes sense. Other than that I see no improvement whatsoever. Corner space is way easier to hit with a mouse, but even when using keyboard shortcuts having it in the middle is just an additional adjustment from what it used to be.

An OS should get out of my way and let me do what I do. Changing design language forces me to relearn what I had already had a flow for. In other words it's utterly useless.

And I just know I'm gonna hate that automatic categorisation of apps, just as I hate web searches from start menu. Alphabetical order is predictable, but this I'd have to relearn.

even when using keyboard shortcuts having it in the middle is just an additional adjustment from what it used to be.

How? It's closer to where your mouse will be, and to where your eyes naturally gravitate.

An OS should get out of my way and let me do what I do.

Yeah. Windows moved from that path a long time ago.

It's an easier click target when it's in the corner. Moving cursor from the middle to the corner is negligible for me since I can reach the whole screen with relatively minor mouse movement.

In the end it's a muscle memory thing for me. Having the button in the middle just means I have to look for it in a different location than I've used to over the years.

Yeah that's why I said corner is superior if you open it with a mouse, and centre is superior for if you do it with your keyboard.

I wouldn't consider it superior, just different, in case of a keyboard shortcut.

It’s actually ideal with an ultra wide I have come to realise.

I actually use it like that. I dont really see the reason pepole hate it so much. Geniuenly a better place for it (mind you im only talking about placement. The design itself is something else ). Since generaly if you use start menu you focus on it to launch something so it might as well be in tge middle of your screen.

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Win 11 still looks ugly.

My main desktop OS in Linux. But on my Windows 11 VM I'm using StartAllBack app. It makes start menu, task panel to be normal again, like it was in Windows 7 and XP.

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Oh it's good they have the "Messages" and "Calls" buttons right there for easy access since so many people message or call my desktop PC.

"The return of the Windows Phone"? 🤷‍♂️

Uhhh! Ahhh! How about the mouse pointer? Make it AI! Nobody likes the little ⬆️ arrow following all the stupid motions. Plus when you loose it and you had wanted to click somewhere, where the fuck is it? Make it jiggle around! That's it! A jiggling mouse pointer that is composed of the two letters AI and jiggles around randomly is surely something everyone could use!

Uggggh fucking whhhhhy.

I don’t even use Windows and I have to put up with this shit. My parents are going to call and ask how and why they have to use this new thing.

What was gained from this exercise in self-lobotomization? Pick a design language and stick to it.

Stirring the pot like this is driving away even enterprise users. My last org only approved Macs and Chromebooks because we didn’t want to deal with the headaches that windows brought. Imagine saying that statement 10 years ago!

If there aren't any visible changes then the lusers won't upgrade. "Why did I have to switch to Windows 11 if nothing changed??" etc.

By shuffling the look and feel of the product constantly they can give an impression of actual upgrades being made. The system looks different after your update, after all.

Microsoft already knows that anyone with technical knowledge is looking to dodge this update, they don't need to make the regular users want to dodge it too.

Amazing! Reading this headline made my bazzite partition grow by 2 whole disk drives!

Holy hell, does every Windows 11 device require touch-based input soon or what?

Looks like they still haven't learned their lesson from the Windows 8 days...

I have never actually used windows 8 but I was on a Win 2012 R2 server earlier today and it's much much worse than Windows 11. So they have learned something at least.

Same here. I skipped that version of Windows. To me it felt like they simply turned 7 into a tablet focused piece of shit.

Another shitty clone of the KDE launcher

the kde launcher is very nice

"Another shitty clone of the KDE launcher", not "Another clone of the shitty KDE launcher" 😜

We've come full circle. KDE imitating Windows, and now Windows trying to catch up with KDE.

Microsoft can not stop fucking up. I have to wonder what the turnaround is like on their UI teams that every god damn version needs a complete rework.

It's not just Microsoft... Most big companies are absolute trash. Google, Apple, Microsoft... They're all garbage, and they're bad for us.

I was just pissed at my PC for "Update and Shutdown" and returning to my PC with it at the lock screen. I think this might be enough for me to leave windows.

Edit: on my gaming PC. Everything else is already KDE Neon or ubuntu.

Fam, jail that windows into a gaming partition and either get a Mac if you aren’t a computer nerd or use Ubuntu if you are. My computing quality of life improved greatly when I didn’t have to use Windows anymore.

Who even plays games that don't run well on Linux/proton these days?

You don't need to be a nerd. Just need to watch a vid or follow ubiquitous guide on how to partition a disk or install second disk. Installing and running Linux is easier than windows these days with most common distros.

The learning curve is easier than the one for each windows update too. At least for plasma, i would assume gnome too.

Still, some enterprise class software only running on windows is a reasonable excuse(for the user). Also not everyone has the drive space or can afford extra hardware. Obligatory privilege check ig.

Unfortunately, a sizable amount of multiplayer games. And if you play with friends, that can be an issue.

Thankfully I don't play any games with problematic anti-cheat, because I have no friends 🧠

Modded games too.

Linux is getting there, but it's really only great for single player games now. That's what I use it for

I play games that don't play well with Linux. Sims 1 & 2 are just straight up broken.

So my Linux PC is actually my WinXP retro gaming PC but Linux is dualbooted for when I want to do more modern stuff on it.

XP is a fine OS

Only issue is lack of V Sync for 2d games and the desktop. Which is why it would've been nice for Linux to be able to run the Sims 1

Mac has a terrible UI though.

I disagree. Microsoft is learning its lesson. It's just that the vast majority of people are teaching Microsoft that its actions are perfectly acceptable, or, at the very least, not totally unacceptable... so it continues.

Oh, dang. Laughing in KDE Plasma.

I die every workday when I have to boot in windows because our CAD doesn't work on Linux. On the other hand it makes switching back to plasma at the end of work feel as sweet as day 1! I don't feel like I'll ever take it for granted.

After Microsoft Edge decided to import all my chrome passwords and data I decided to get rid of windows as much as possible.

I'm really enjoying my Mint 22 experience, the only downside is that I have to switch to windows to play Once Human.

why? protondb says it works fine.

Yes, i saw that, I was troubleshooting it for a while and when I got it to run the performance was ass but today I tired again and basically the problem is that the game must absolutely not be run from an HDD. It's running fine on linux now.

not the home screem

if had to use windows at home i'ld screem too.

not too surprised they didn't change that.

Why do they keep changing the thing? Linux mint Cinnamon desktop has kept the same look and I appreciate that.

New manager need to prove themselves -> can't do that by small improvements -> dreams up major changes -> gets promoted -> repeat

Is my guess

^ this guy corporates

Also, new manager would be part owner in a UX design firm of "experts" that conveniently, via their expert advice, convince management that a major redesign is needed and their firm is the only one that can do it (since everyone knows you can't get expert advice internally)

80% of the way through the project, the manager gets promoted and moves on, leaving a new manager with no vested interest in their predecessors project to try and clean up the steaming dumpster fire that is now 300x over budget

and why do they keep making it as actively shitty as they possibly can?

like, I get it, there was room for improvement back when it was just 'good'. they filled all that room with crap.

the good things about crap, though? nitrogen, phosphorous.

Cool, will this one work, or will it still go unresponsive and/or fail to find the app called the exact thing you typed?

it only changes the look, not how search works, unfortunately for windows users

I was worried this was going to be a problem when I bought new Windows 11 laptops for my octogenerian parents to use. Fortunately, it turns out they never even knew how to use the start menu on earlier versions of Windows - they always just used the desktop or toolbar shortcuts I had set up for them. "The more things change, the more they never were in the first place".

oh yeah, now one can accidentally close the Start menu by clicking in the gap between the panels.

Linux and gnome pretty much gtfo of the way for me - as an OS should. I used to care a lot about what Microsoft did, now I couldn’t care less - F em

KDE is the best and much easier and polished to ex windows users

So is Nadella redesigning all this stuff? Because it certainly doesn’t look like someone who is familiar with UI is doing it. Reminds me of when the CEO of Yahoo decided she could create a new logo in Corel Draw one night.

tvf this is still in canary, the final implementation will be more polished

Can write reskin Windows 11 to look like 95/98?

Cuz that would be cool. Just hide all the bullshit. Have a functional desktop again.

@RangerJosie @Blisterexe Best I found online. https://uxthemepatcher.com/windows-98-classic-theme-for-windows-11/

I don't know how good it is though. I don't mess with my windows installation.

theyre killing that stuff in the new windows 11 version

It's easier to 🏴‍☠️ a copy of Windows 10 than trying to work around Windows 11 I'm sure.

Looks like they're going full speed ahead towards their mobile/tablet/TV/PC unishittification.

I believe they want you to seamlessly transfer stuff from device to device, regardless of which, where and why.

but why not use an iterface optimized for each device?

I mean, I know the answers, but I find all of them deeply insulting.

Hmm. Not a marketing person, but I'll try to make an idea that sounds only slightly insulting.

Think of it like this. You're working from home, a coworker is out in the field doing live research and your boss will be doing a presentation in front of the shareholders. The coworker in the field records data with their phone, sends it to your laptop, you arrange it for your boss, send it to their tablet and the boss just slides it over on the giant TV as they take the credit for your work.

Or a more personal example. You're at home in the mood for a movie or a game on your budget smart TV, but you're too lazy to do all the whatever to get it going. So instead just sync your phone, PC/Xbox and TV with a Microsoft/Xbox account and do everything remotely using your phone/tablet as a controller, from the comfort of your couch.

It's Microsoft NSYNC, baby! And that's why everything has to be tailored to fit your lovely, greasy fingers. Comfortable comfort. You know you want it!

okay but that's all back-end. I actually have an example like this!

okay, so, if im playing an old DRM'd game I have on my desktop, and want to switch to my steam deck, I can do that.

but the interface that works on my steam deck (controller with touch pad, but no keyboard) is maddening to use on my desktop. I know, because I tried it once-steam calls it 'big picture mode' and it feels like being crippled when I use it on a computer with a full keyboard and mouse.

but I pick up the deck, and it's nice. it functions, its interface is pretty close to perfect. and if I tried to use either of those on my phone, i would take a train up to washington and fucking beat a valve employee to death with it.

what you're talking about is back end interoperability. totally unrelated, and I agree it's good! also, doesn't really exist anywhere near as much as it should, but that's sort of a different problem. see, each of those platforms has different affordances and design conventions. now, you can run compatibility and seamless use, so the video just appears where you want it. I actually have a slightly janky (but best I've found) version of that set up on my LAN.

but I would like to be able to click around and take a broader view of the incoming shit on my desktop with multiple 4k monitors. i absolutely need gesture support on my tablet, and on my phone I need gesture support, plus ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have space to display multiple things at once.

I don't need hamburger menus on my fucking desktop. I got space, and my cursor is precise enough the 90s/00's are the best we've done with UX in that space (because we stopped trying as soon as the iphone dropped). having ONLY ONE THING displayed at once on my desktop is fucking annoying. I have 7680 horizontal pixels over a few feet of space on my desktop, no one thing takes up that much fucking space, nor should it, and I like the ability to click and drag shit from different apps and move shit around and do all that good crap. it's great! and on my phone or tablet, that doesn't really work. I should be able to click and drag to my tablet, if I want to set that up (my tablet is air gapped because that's easier than degoogling and I mostly read+music on it) but my tablet needs a totally different interface, and anything that DOES work for my tablet, where im only ever really doing one thing I need to look at at once, is going to be frustrating as hell on my desktop.

Thanks for the in-depth reply and for correcting me.

And you're right to be dissatisfied, but the tech savvy might not be the intended audience. The burger crowd might be instead. They outnumber the tech crowd by the billion. It's just more profitable.

they outnumber the 'tech crowd' because we use technology to infantilize outselves, of which this is a prime example.

It's bad for us, but it makes them money, so they are incentivised to not care.

It looks like the little windows you'd use to organise your applications in Windows 3.1

I genuinely in 2024 I don't see why would anyone want to use any Microsoft product. They (alongside with Google) present themselves as malicious companies that only care about user data and providing user notorious ads.

unfortunately they are like the only two competitive corporate email providers. all the business tools integrate with gmail or outlook and almost never anything else. shit is annoying af

Ugh, I just had to get an organization outlook and they've been screwing with backend server protocol support, which kills most third-party apps. For E-MAIL! Nothing about this need a new standard!

I actually liked how the start menu works in Win10, with the rearrangeable/resizable tiles you can put wherever and categorize however you want. That was closer to what's pictured here, but this is still worse.

How do I get that back?

(...I actually liked Windows 8's Start Screen as well. I understand this puts me in the minority. Everything else about the Win8 UI was a five alarm dumpster fire, but I liked having a big colorful full screen app launcher that could be arranged in any way you wanted.)

How do I get that back?

you can change the kde (linux) launcher to look like that

Well that looks like pure garbage. Glad I no longer have to deal with it.

bunch of fucking interface designers so deep into their shit that they're forcing everyone to chase the UX meta and play ranked competitive UI when 90% of everyone is just trying to be casuals and play what they're accustomed to so they can unwind at the end of the day

"yes well you see moving every interface element on your computer to a totally new location results in a 0.0001% improvement in the average user's workflow, therefore: bite the pillow, changes are coming, we're the experts you dumb schlubs!"

When was it ever about improving it for the end user? From the picture, it's absolutely terrible. You have what, four folders taking up the whole menu? Yeah, Windows XP had a more efficient workflow than that.

When was it ever about improving it for the end user?

back in the day when it was about building the best interface you could to last the product lifespan, maybe.

that's not profitable for the designers tho - chasing the current design meta is their version of planned obsolescence for interfaces. "oh that interface looks old so it doesn't work anymore" - statements dreamed up by the deranged and greedy.

Thanks, I hate it

Had to spin up a virtual windows machine the other day and was just honestly appalled at how bad the desktop experience is these days

its not really that bad though half of the time i dont even use the start menu; i just use something like flow launcher or wox.

Not sure when it started, but I've already noticed some Start Menu fuckery with just the 'Sign Out' portion. I believe you previously just clicked on your profile picture/name and the options for signing out were right there. They've "helpfully" hidden those options now beneath a ••• menu for no apparent reason. I was a little aggravated when I first noticed it because it seemingly changed out of nowhere. Not a huge change, but it requires one more click to do now.

Right click the start menu should be easier to get to iirc

the changes in windows since 7 are a master class in UX design, as long as you remember it's a negative.

i guess they couldn't find a way to not make it look fucking awful

That looks pretty ugly. I'm not really a fan of trying to make computers look more like phones but I think I'm in the minority there. Oh well, I never use the start menu anyways, I only have a few programs and they're all pinned to my taskbar.

IF the categorization works well, and that's a big if, I like it.

And if the categorization isn't absolutely perfect, you can bet everyone will be clamoring to be allowed to customize it or disable it.

Looks like MacOS and various Linux distros had a deformed, illegitimate child.

how lol? i see absolutely no influence from macOS or DEs

Right? That’s nothing like those… that’s insulting to MacOS and Linux.

It's not as bad as people here are making it out to be. It actually might even be an improvement. It's only for the all apps tab, and it organizes apps by their purpose, and you don't have to click the folder to expand it and then click the icon, as you can just click the icon and it will launch it. I've been using Windows 11 since it came out, and the all apps tab is something I have barely ever used. All my important stuff is neatly organized in one single tab of my home star menu screen, and anything that is not there I'll just look it up with search.

But wont this change how search is displayed? Honestly, I hope I can keep my alphabetical order. Learning some algorithmic categorization is not what I want to spend my time at work.

This is a new layout for the "all apps" section. It is toggle able, so if you don't like it you don't need to use it. I will give it a try but I don't often go into all apps anyway.

So much negativity here.

Yeah its pretty funny to see people that allegedly don't even use windows acting like it kicked their dog when they do anything.

I like the phone link integration. I've never been a fan out auto-populating app folders though.

Where's all the ads though? They've gotta be thinking about turning one of the folders into a recommended apps folder or something dumb. They'll sneak something in somewhere.

They are removing the only really useful part of the start menu. Fucking genious.

I for one dont see the fault in the design itself. Geniuenly looks like something usefull for pepole that use lots of tools.

If not for the fact that it already exist in the goddam pinned section in start menu and it replaces all items menu. Whyyy? These are not replecable by each other.

I use a lot of tools. I access them by hitting the windows key and typing the name of what I want. Or at least I used to before they incorporated a web search into the start menu that fucks it up 8 times out of 10. IDK how they ever thought that was a good idea. If I want to search the web I'll do it in a fucking web browser.

I guess it’s better but it should be manual not automatic and it doesn’t fix the “can’t be placed at the top of the screen” bug

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE

I don't like when a megacorp forces change on me for no good reason.

In Linux world, this would be an opt in new feature.

People still use the start menu?

I just use the search bar and type in the app I'm wanting to run

well window's search is almost non-functional, so there's that

I can't even tell you the number of times and apps I've literally typed the name of, and windows either doesn't find it, or decides to make me wait 5-10 seconds while it searches the web instead. Super helpful....

It’s the same thing. Click bottom left corner, start typin. best workflow.

I like the Phone Companion bar too. The folder grid is reminiscent of Windows 8 and is a nod to iOS… I guess haters gonna hate, but this seems like a nice improvement.

I'll be over here hating then.

This is the Window 8 menu bullshit all over again.

I genuinely don’t understand what more people could want in a start menu, just needlessly against all forward momentum and change?

Just against pointless change.

You can see your phones status and recent messages from the start menu now! More start menu icons are exposed in the space they’ve added an organization mechanism. I think the point is to improve its usefulness

My personal phone is not linked to my computer. My work computer will never be linked to my work computer because I don't have a work provided mobile phone. I do expect this new menu to nag the shit out of me to link a phone based on prior Windows 'features'.

I don't use windows messages.

I see fewer icons in the preview image than I see on the start menu now.

This is far less useful than the existing menu, which is less useful than the windows 7 menu. This is like how they hid half the things I used on the right click menu under the 'show more' option.

Pretty sure the bar goes away when you don't use Phone Link! I use Phone Link, as you should too assuming you own a phone. I like it because that + the iCloud app basically brings feature parity to my Macs built-in Phone integrations. The simping over Windows is bizarre, it's like you guys are pissed that Windows 2000 isn't still supported, come join us in the 21st century please. "Any feature I don't personally use is pointless and bloat" is a childs argument.

"Everyone else should be subjected to my preferences" is also a child's argument.

If i wanted a Mac I would buy one. They are great for people who like them, but their extremely integrated environment is used to justify exclusive software and hardware requirements that I don't want to be limited to. Windows forcing an online account is aping Apple and I hate it.

How am I subjecting you to my preferences? Phone Companion disappears if it's disabled, you're upset because Microsoft added icon groups. How dare they upgrade your operating system, the monsters. In a world where they could have plastered it with ads, no less!

Calm down, I just have a different preference than you.

You guys are admonishing Microsoft for investing in good improvements. Your preferences aren’t the issue, it’s your framing of any change as aggressively bad without justification that I take issue with. Other than you not personally using the feature, you have no justification whatsoever for your complaints. It’s just ignorant whining, and it only serves to set back an OS that desperately needs the overhaul. This whole sub seems fucked, it’s not just you.

EDIT: I've given this some thought and arrived at a POV where I may have been too hard on you. Maybe there's a need that speaks to folks like yourselves, who are tech savvy enough that you're on a Lemmy instance but really just want a prototypical Windows experience. To my mind, that's crazy but here we are so I must be wrong on that front. I admit there's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just annoying you're in the same user base I am - someone who wants Windows to improve finally. Maybe we can agree that Microsoft should just go back to Windows 95 and cater to you guys, and leave modern computing to the professionals.