Maybe because it’s the only way many without generational wealth can afford to live.
people used to look at children as a way to pass on knowledge, culture, adn ofc, genes
nowadays our genes dont matter so much unless youre a super athlete or mega genius, so passing them on seems frivolous to many. then theres the interent, which houses knowledge on damn near everything. so i guess it makes sense why the desire to carry on would be outweighed at this point
Honestly at this point there are only a handful of headlines that cover about 90% of news stories:
-Young people 'choose' lifestyle choice that was forced upon them by external conditions.
-Young people are 'killing industry' that they are not paid enough to even dream of participating in.
-Rich person/people found guilty of or admitted to enormous crime will go unpunished.
-Someones totally unqualified opinion on a subject that we're reporting as news because they're rich.
-World ending, shareholders rejoice.
Rich people doing stupid things with money because they aren’t being taxed like they should so that the economy actually can survive.
FDR taxes the shit out of rich people so they had to re-invest the money into their companies or lose it to the government. That built a strong, industrialized America with good paying jobs. Ronald Reagan reversed everything and we've been in decline ever since. Still a huge number of poor people continue to vote Republican, against their country, and their own interests.
this might be the greatest comment on Lemmy
Seriously, someone save this and post it on X and Reddit.
Disaster capitalism!!! 🥳
By choosing, I think we mean that it's not an affordable luxury to do otherwise
Choosing to not have children is becoming more and more accepted among younger people for a long variety of reasons, among them being climate and economy as well as "not going to ruin my body" and "well i just dont like children"
You pretty much nailed the entire reason for most of my friends and myself (mid to late 20s). We can all afford kids, but it's just not something anyone desires except for one or two people in our group of 14.
Most of us don't even dislike kids, but the thought of having our own is undesirable.
I struggle to understand how people can get over how terrifying and unpleasant having children is. Kids can be okay, except when they aren't, and that's often.
That is simply not true. Kids can teach you many things about yourself that you never knew you cared about. They open a part of this life you would never see otherwise. They are this thing that loves you no matter what and if you are a good parent you do not take that for granted and give it all you got.
I didn't want any for many years for all the same reasons as many here. And it changed. And it's great, for me. But if you choose not to or have doubts, don't. It's horrible for the kid.
Another thing that can happen is you can grow up able to see clearly that you're an obligation for your parents they didn't want. You feel like they're always angry with you even if you're perfectly behaved. Then they tell you they gave up their entire life for you, clearly bitter and regretting that.
There is a non zero chance I could make my kids feel this awful for existing, and that already would be a non starter. But on top of that there's like 14 other reasons.
I'm not sure what you're protesting about what I wrote. I didn't attack you. I just don't understand how people ignore all the anxiety they will certainly have with kids in addition to all the other additional anxiety if anything about the kid goes especially wrong.
Well this comment at least tells us something about how you might have felt when younger. I did not always see eye to eye with my parents but in the end, I felt like they loved me and the amount of happiness I experienced as a kid is almost immeasurable. I'm on team #nokids, but for a lot of people, the love they can experience through children is unique and powerful, and understanding that is not that much of a struggle for me.
That's the thing, having kids is a unique experience just like not having kids is a unique experience. Being an individual is fundamentally a unique experience. Yet this whole conversation gets wrapped up in normative language like this which clearly expresses social preference for the former.
When I hear someone say that having children changed them in a profound way, I don't hear anything other than "climbing a mountain is profound" or "laying on the couch all day is profound." There is uniqueness and profound cumulative existence baked into to every heartbeat, but apparently a lot of people have trouble with this simple idea.
My comment mentioned nothing about the positive sides to kids. They obviously exist. The point I was making is I am surprised so many people opt into the most anxiety I think you probably can opt into.
It's because your brain gets flooded with parenting hormones which give you superhuman delusion tolerance for the first few years. That's why I'm always skeptical when people are like "it's hard but I can't describe how wonderful it is!"
Sure Ryan, that's totally not just the brain worms talking, I'll stick with dogs for my nurturing serotonin and I refuse to feel bad about it.
I feel the same way, but had already had my children at 21 & 23 before I got the chance to understand the options. I love them and don't regret my choices, but I would have certainly had a life with different focuses.
I'm older, but the majority of people I know that had kids were surprised by the first.
The best thing you can do for the environment as a person in a western country is not have kids.
That's not the only reason we aren't having any, but it's certainly a factor.
Caveat: the Jesus freaks on the right know no such restrictions
That said 100% you do you
Lol, the opening plot of Idiocracy
Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Then again I have no problem polluting and using up 2 hours of shower water and take tons of baths because others who never cared are doing it. So if you're being selfish, sure, go ahead.
Neither, really. More like are choosing not to go into child debt. Having a kid costs more than having a house. Good for this generation for taking control of their reproductive decisions.
But what you're describing is an economic decision.
Was just going to say that.
Of all my younger siblings/cousins/etc, the only ones with kids were accidents. Only I chose to purposely start a family, and that took me a decade of saving.
Choosing. Def had the option to have kids but decided not to.
Most humans choose to breathe for oxygen, study shows.
They are being forced into it because its the only fucking way to have a chance at NOT being homeless and crippled.
Oh no, make no mistake, I chose it.
However, even if I wanted them, how the fuck does one even afford them?
Don't get it twisted, many of us absolutely chose to not have kids because we don't want them.
You can both be right, you know. Many of us also agree with what this person was saying.
I used to want kids. I will refuse to have kids unless I can afford them, and until I can GUARANTEE that their human rights won't be stripped away by the whims of stupid people who are completely disconnected from reality. I won't bring a new life into a world that's rushing towards climate oblivion, either.
I'll sterilize myself before I'm ever forced to have kids.
OP: everyone in group x does y
Me: not everyone
You: you're both right - not everyone
?
And there is part of the problem in the eyes of those with power.... That thought that you have a choice in sterility. A choice to not have kids didn't used to exist and you attempting to keep warm and have some pleasure basically guaranteed that you would have more eventually. So that must be stripped in order for you to continue the cycle of having kids not by choice and add to the population that gets fucked over.
Agreed. These people are trying to leverage something many of us absolutely aren't interested in to push for necessities such as fixing inflation, universal Healthcare etc. Except that if those things were fixed it wouldn't change the birth rate much at all. That's why Republicans are forcing people to be breeding machines. Educated well off people know better to engage in an activity that is detrimental to their physical and mental health. And making a human means you're responsible for them until you or they die. That's the biggest mistake people make. They make a human, then wash their hands of then.
No one should have a child unless they are willing to commit themselves to that child 100%. I have a daughter. She's the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me. And if anyone willingly took substantially less effort than I've taken to try to raise her in a safe, healthy environment and prepare her for her future as best I can- fuck you, you should have worn a fucking condom.
No child deserves to be neglected.
Interesting/sad how simply due to circumstance, somebody’s absolute honest best at max effort/sacrifice can still be raising a kid in a favela.
Consider the top vs. bottom billion: I expect the latter half’s kids would appear neglected if they were suddenly transported to the former’s McMansions overnight.
That’s not to say the kisses and the love are any less, but the clothes and the education and the soccer practice? I’d bet certainly.
I hope within by two generations from now this kind of pondering is only possible from a historical perspective. The kids deserve it.
Hence my saying 'willingly.' You can't help being impoverished.
This is not a controversial opinion.
I make ~$200K a year. As a father of 5, I wish I had not had a single one. I love them, but the stress of taking care of them coupled with the future of the planet makes me regret life choices.
I find it interesting that you cite the stress of raising them as a factor in your regret. Could you not tell that was going to be an issue around the time number three came around? That's not intended to be accusatory btw. I'm genuinely curious.
You incorrectly assume I'm intelligent.
Haha fair enough
Ok not a Java dev but this would explain the excess children (lol)
Oh hell yeah I'll never pass up an opportunity to shit on a language i don't use. It's the programmer way!
Not OP, but I've found that the older they get, the harder it gets. Schedules are all over the place, and they start advocating for things they want to do that don't fit neatly into the family calendar (vs when you were able to choose everything for them).
Expectations for parents have also skyrocketed. Your "best" now is far different than what the 1990s parents were expected to deliver. And, of course, you love them and want to provide them everything they need, so you bend over backwards to make it happen. That's what society demands, too.
I don't have as many kids as OP, and I can't fucking imagine wrangling five in the current world...😳
Maybe they meant it like “there is now stress for helping pay for college at a higher cost than when they were born.” Or being stressed knowing if the family lives in a HCOL area (typically where those salaries are offered), they might not be able to live there as well with the current trends in housing costs.
TLDR: things have changed for the worst for newer generations, parents can see it.
God, I wish I was smart enough to lie this well. No. I like sex, and hate condoms. I'm the dum.
I do too, which is why I was on the table getting a vasectomy before the vernix was dry on our one and only kid lol
My wife finally are in a point where we can afford to have children, but we are kinda getting a bit old to have children. So we are also choosing the dual income no children life style,
But a big part of that is our age and how long it took to get to a comfortable place financially.
Now we want to focus on saving for a house and retirement.
dinks
I don’t know what this means.
It's the acronym for the phrase in the article - "Dual Income No Kids". Might have been more obvious if it were in caps.
What choice do they have if kids are basically unaffordable?
“When we advise clients about having children, we honestly don’t even give them the full real details and the real numbers,” said Shannon McLay, founder of The Financial Gym. “It’s one of those things if you see the math of it all, it might make you decide to not have children.”
what a whole generation of pulling the ladder up behind you will do to a society. Party of family values doing everything they possibly can to destroy familes.
In other words, "we trick our clients who paid us for financial advice into having children they can't afford".
Yeah, I hope there's some more context. That quote makes it sound pretty bad.
people won’t pay to hear ‘don’t have kids’
so they skip that part
Holy shit, what an incredibly unethical thing to do. "We're lying to the people who come to us for advice because if we told the truth they might make a decision we don't like."
Because we can't afford our own lives, how are we supposed to support children? Not even taking into account for how absolutely fucked we all are. Our planet is dying, how can we bring children into this world if it's all falling apart?
Hey you, I have a quick question about the username
Uh oh, this is awkward....
What are your thoughts on misandry?
I mean a lot of us wouldn't even if it they paid us. We finally live in a time where we know better and can choose not to be barefoot and pregnant (unless you live in tx).
Gee, it's almost like it's important for the long term success of society to have systems in place that make sure it's not a burden to create new people to take over for your generation after their bodies are too old and broken to keep working and society functioning.
Then again, the decisions have already been made by the people with the power to make them, and technology/automation are in line to replace workers. They'll be a little loud and problematic until the numbers naturally even themselves out, but we'll be left with an enlightened society of capitalist asset owners being supported by a massive technological network.
It would be a shame if a new Luddite movement came and broke the machines putting humans out of work they want to do.
Or give us a universal basic income and let humans do what they want to do to make themselves happy while the machines do all the work.
Makes a fascinating short story:
Jimmy thought his job at the data center was easy, clock in, watch the cameras, do the rounds, clock out. Good pay, low effort....
then 10,000 people showed up with hammers and crow bars. Jimmy was about to have a very bad day.
I so much hope it's going to be rhe second. I doubt it will 😢
What value is a universal basic income to the shareholders?
That is the question to ask in this capitalist hellscape.
I'd say that sometimes it may even be beneficial to shareholders because they will not have to deal with people in the company that are there only to up the workspace numbers. You know, those job positions that only exist because of how wrecked the system is now
I make the same number as my dad used to. His was a different currency but the number was the same which makes it awfully simple to put everything into perspective.
His house: 350
Mine: a little under half the size: 900
I'm already down 550 in comparison.
His insurance: 90
Mine: 160
I'm down 620.
His medicine cost and doctor visits: basically zero.
Mine: 385 and half the medicine comes out of pocket nowadays.
This difference is hard to put into perspectice as the 385 is once a year and medicine depends on the situation.
Him: unemployed wife, groceries cost about 200 for a full month, owns a car and has 4 children.
Me: wife works and has a hobby that makes money, no car because no money left. Groceries: we eat about 2/3rd of what they did and pay 200 a week. No children.
We are down 1220 if we forget about insurance and medicine. I don't make 1220 more than he did.
Fuck this hellhole, you stole our life and i hope there is a hell for you scumbags.
you stole our life
Don't blame your dad - however much you resent him it's not like he has any influence over the economy. Instead blame the super rich who have real influence and are actively pushing policy to widen this social divide.
I doubt he does.
But it is partially their fault: they have the largest political clout by generation so welfare and zoning policies have always suited them at the behest of everyone else.
And even if people don't have kids, the rich aren't going to be impacted. They just use immigration as a stop gap until everything is automated away and we see wealth imbalance get taken to 11. I'm talking gated communities everywhere with poverty in-between (e.g
South Africa)
Articles like this are not for you and me. These are written for investors.
The plebs aren't breeding enough future workers for us to exploit to deliver the promised renumerations to our shareholders.
We MUST find out the reason why! No it can't possibly be that extracting all the wealth into our dragon hoards, I mean, hedge funds is the reason why they're too broke to support children.
It can only be a LiFeStYlE cHoICe!
Like being homeless or poor.
Friend of mine wanted kids. Can't afford it. Both her and her partner work full time, though money was too tight for them to feel comfortable. It's heartbreaking, really.
Quick math suggests that it takes about 2190 bananas to raise a child, with an average of 1 banana every 3 days.
This cost does not incluce therapy sessions for the parents though, so is not a complete breakdown of the cost of raising a child.
That's half a star war!
Living that DINK life and still having trouble keeping out of debt. I can't imagine having to cover for kids, too.
choosing
Is doing so much heavy lifting in that headline.
Might as well be "More Titanic passengers choosing life rafts to ocean liners"
choosing life rafts to drowning
Kids? In this economy?
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
As I remember it: fundamentalists are repopulating the earth, and overall population will drop off before long, so don’t mind having & raising progress young minds.
Just what I would have said. We're already too many in this little space.
Im a DINK! Just this year we bought a house, vacationed in Europe and are installing a new heat pump system. I interact with my friends kids and have nieces and nephews. I get to be the fun one and if someone poops or gets sick I can return them. It's like skipping right to the grandparent stage. I don't hate kids or look down on parents like some child free communities but I don't envy them at all. I totally get why DINKness is on the rise. Hopefully the stigma reduces as it become more common.
Im a DINK! Just this year we bought a house, vacationed in Europe and are installing a new heat pump system.
Sounds very expensive.
Yeah, pretty cool what not having kids can do for you
Still less so than kids though!
Not as bad as you would think. I am lucky to live in a very progressive state that is investing heavily in green technology. The state gave us a .99 percent loan we have sitting in a high percent saving account to withdraw payments from. The state also gave us like 6k is rebates just to get rid of our old Freon unit. We are hoping to cut our energy bills in half. So depending on where you live you should look into it.
Um, I'm sitting here wondering where they spent the rest of their savings. (Parent here.)
AMD calls 🚀🚀🚀
"Choosing"
"forced into"
I'm over here single income double kids. Opps lol
Why can’t I have no kids and three money?!
I'm single income no kids and go hang out with my sister's kids when I'm bored. When they start getting annoying I bounce.
You have found the perfect balance.
except maybe lacking the luxury of dual income which would come with the bonus of someone to snuggle with every night
I have to choose between snuggling or drama
Oh man, I used to think that but then I got older and found a woman that understands (like I do in reverse) that I’m set in my ways and expecting me to/being disappointed when I fail to live up to her ideal partner is just the wrong way to be. Being married and divorced multiple times does wonders for encouraging pragmatism.
yeah. drama sux.
Send 'em to the coal mines and you'll have three incomes
I already have two kids. Is it too late to adopt this lifestyle?
Sounds like 4 incomes to me!
Honestly yeah. I think a lot of these articles assume the "Move out on their 18th birthday" mentality, but I see extended family situations increasing because livability sure isn't.
If we raised our families in this cooperative fashion, even when the kids are adults, I feel like we'd be much closer to the stable "nuclear family" model than previous generations ever were, relying on a single generation's "breadwinner" and everyone else just being immediate dependents.
Instead of "paying rent", everyone contributes to the household's common good by covering portions of utilities and such.
I dunno maybe this just works for us because nobody in the house is "Boomer with a firm handshake" rich. But it works lol.
Only in Arkansas.
I think I once heard something about post-natal abortions.
Don't mind me. I'm the weirdo that legit loves being a parent.
I'm happy for you! We all take different paths in life and it's great you enjoy yours.
Me too, kids made my life so much better, but oof I hate when people push their lifestyle on others, child free and natalist proselytizers can both fuck off. We aren't going to run out of people, or get too many, you can see it adjusting even now. It seems so normal for people in a crowded world to want fewer kids, and slow birth rate is so much nicer than war or plague as a way to control population.
Ya... the only problem is WHO is having all the kids.
I think you should elaborate on it. Please tell us what group of people are having kids that you think should not be?
Generally, people that are less educated or with shitty values. It's not about genetics; it's about the perpetuation of bad culture. If I were to name some groups that typify this: religious fundies and under-educated rednecks.
It's hard to have this argument without coming across as advocating for eugenics, but I completely agree. The fact that increasing women's education is so strongly correlated with decreased population growth is not a coincidence.
The difference between a eugenicists and whatever the hell I am is that I think the solution is to educate more people, not to control their right to reproduce.
Right. There's also a huge difference between taking measures that affect birth rates and actively rounding people up and culling them. Eugenics has got to be the most equivocated term in the English language. Except maybe god.
It's a weird alternate reality. Do I love having kids? Absolutely! Would I love having none? Absolutely!
Seconded, can’t imagine life without my family.
Fellow weirdo here. I like the world where everyone who has kids is choosing to have them. Boils my blood to see neglect or abuse of the innocent.
"But we need your children to grow up and produce product and more children so that we can continue the cycle of funneling the value they create into the pockets of our society's most wealthy and well connected!"
That's why capitalism in the current state is not sustainable. Too much wealth and power in a small group which limits population growth.
Guess the crazed business owners should have paid more money to their lowly drones (who actually do all of the work) instead of taking larger and larger massive bonuses for themselves then.
Fuck them.
This is similar to the "correlation doesn't equal causation" fallacy.
Dual income and no kids, is due to the prospect of cost of living and raising a family out pacing income. Housing, vehicle, child care, tuition, are all the items pricing middle class out of options.
DINK is not a choice, if anything, it's more the result of not having the luxury to choose.
Nah dude, not having children is definitely a choice and is becoming more and more common
I think there's a very solid argument to be made that far fewer would be making that choice if the future didn't look bleak as hell. I would at least consider having kids if I thought there was a better than not chance that the world I leave them will be better than the one I was given.
Exactly. People need to stop acting like the economy is stopping them from making the biggest mistake of their lives. This is the ONLY good thing about the economy right now.
This is a gross oversimplification that ignores a million societal factors. It's a choice for a lot of us. People used to either not have a choice or think they didn't. Many now know they have a choice and don't want to be broke and stressed. Like my parents were. You know, back when everyone was rich and happy.
It's a choice. And the exact choice compared to those who don't take that option is demonstrated at the beginning of the film Idiocracy.
I was lucky to get sterilized in Tennessee (pre RvW), and I'm absolutely hyped about it. I never felt maternal, and the feeling disappeared even more as I heard the 'discussions' about women's 'rights'. The more I was made to feel like a next gen's workforce factory , the more I realized a life of free time and savings was much more desirable.
I can't have kids either, one way or the other, and I am so fucking thankful about it
I very much enjoy the lifestyle that comes with it. It's less stress overall. And it's not exactly a fun place (current state of the world) for me to want to bring a mini me into.
I’ll bet my life savings it isn’t a choice for most….its a necessity these days.
Just the thought of having to be responsible for a child's welfare in this day and age would send my blood pressure through the roof.
Bummer when my friends now don't have kids. It robs me of the schadenfreude while they enjoy their childfree blissful and carefree lives.
We're completely happy being uncle and auntie
This actually was a choice that my partner and I discussed before we got married. I have lived a charmed life but my mental health still is not great despite that; hard to justify creating another version of myself whose life experiences are fairly likely to be worse than mine.
Additionally my brother-in-law requires additional support. He's an adult with learning difficulties and is unable to work. Eventually he'll need to come and live with us once old relatives have passed away.
My father was infertile but they elected to go for a sperm donor so that I would have the option to choose whether I wanted to have kids of my own. In theory they could have made me with IVF but I would have likely been infertile too. I hope I'm not letting him down but I remind myself that he was giving me the option to choose as opposed to some kind of mandate to procreate.
Dink here. It's marvelous
Single income supporting a family of 4 here, and it's the best life I could realistically imagine. I live in a low cost of living area and make enough money that we all live comfortably. Kids are getting everything they want for Christmas.
While you and I have chosen different paths, I am happy yours is working for you as well.
I am a father. If you don't want kids please please don't have them. Whatever residual guilt or obligation you are operating under I ask you to purge from your system. The world has enough problems without bringing kids into it that you don't want to raise. Being a parent is hard enough for people like me who want and continue to want to do it, I can't imagine how much worse it will be for a person who doesn't or didn't want.
Yes it is true to one extent almost all parents are rising to the occasion. No one is fully ready and there is never a perfect time. But this is a retrocon. Just because you can figure out something and muddle through doesn't mean you should have to be in that position to begin with.
Again please please do not reproduce if you are unwilling or unable to raise those kids. Leave the task to people who want to. If you still feel some guilt, for whatever reason, go look at some parent in your life and offer to help them with any little task. Even if it is just sitting on their couch playing with your cellphone while they can run out and buy groceries.
As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point.
Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest
the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest,
a process which had once favoured the noblest traits of man,
now began to favour different traits.
Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest
the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest,
That is a misunderstanding of natural selection. Natural selection means the most efficient ways to live in your ecological niche have been selected for.
Sloths are not counter to natural selection. They're not fast or smart or strong. What they are is well-adapted to live in their environment.
It's from the movie Idiocracy. Which is more of a documentary at this point.
Which is more of a documentary at this point.
I wish. The idiots in Idiocracy were aware of their own stupidity, and when they found someone smarter than themselves, the ones in power immediately stepped down to let him tackle their most pressing issues.
The idiots IRL think they're geniuses, and when they find someone smarter than themselves, they run a smear-campaign and/or incite violence against that person.
Where we're headed is MUCH darker than the future Idiocracy portrays.
just keep in mind the big catastrophe still didn't happen, so people are happy in their delusions.
No way. Next you are going to tell me that plants don’t actually crave electrolytes.
They were, until humans became part of their environment.
thank you
It's you! Oh man, I really love your show.
I always feel cheated as an asexual/aromantic person. We shouldn't be forced to live with roommates for the rest of our lives just because we don't want to get married, which isn't really a choice, it's just our orientation like anyone else's. It's also so much harder when neurodivergence and/or social anxiety is an issue.
No one should be forced to get married or have roommates (or both) just to keep a roof over their heads. Everyone is entitled to have a little bit of privacy and comfort in their lives, especially if they work hard for it.
I can't believe I feel like I have to justify the desire for a studio apartment with no roommates.
Amen, AroAce SINK, with no partner to pick up any slack...I'm lucky currently to live with family that I get along well with, but they're older and not in great health, so that's not going to last forever.
The same applies to Dinkleburg in the Fairly OddParents. It's in his name. DINKLEBURG!!!!
Between a dude calling me "pedestrian" on here the other day, and this Bud Dink reference, I think it's a sign from the universe to show my kids Doug
"choosing"
👨🍳🤌
That’s me and my spouse. We love it.
Some people cant grasp that not having children because you dont want them is an option. I got a vasectomy at 23, single, no kids, because fuck em.
My sister in law would like to be made infertile as well, unfortunately no doctor will do it for her because her hypothetical husband might want children from her one day. Being female in America and not wanting kids is heavily stigmatized, in her case she just doesn’t like them
Hospitals don't do background checks for a surgery. Just lie to your doc. "My husband of 15 years and I have three already - they're great but we're definitely done! Here look at these pictures of... oh gosh darnit, I think I left my phone at home. Anyway, let's talk about this surgery..."
If it feels unethical, so is our backwards healthcare system. Stupid problems call for stupid solutions.
Username...checks out?
I'm a surgical tech, which is rock-bottom of the medical food chain, but I take my role seriously enough that it makes my blood fucking boil when people are denied care over bigoted or superstitious nonsense.
If we're going to hit our patients with that BS, why would we expect our patients to have any respect for the system that's giving them the finger instead of providing care?
If lying and cheating is what it takes to trick the system into working for a moment, then lie and cheat.
And more power to you. I just thought it was a funny coincidence that you're writing this with a username I could interpret as "a way not to have children". Didn't mean to take away from what you wrote at all. Sorry if it sounded that way.
Oh, not at all! I was affirming your comment. When I started on the fediverse I gravitated to the medical communities cuz that was the most familiar content, so I themed the username there as well.
Advocating for a good ol snip snip procedure tracks with that, so 100% on it checking out.
Any ire in my previous comment was directed at the broken-ass system I work for, not your post!
But Bezos and Musk both want 1 Trillion humans!
Musk pretty much only wants the white humans. Not sure about Bezos.
Well yeah how else is there going to be more wage slaves Mozarts?
Even with dual income you can be homeless.
Say what you will about previous generations but the ilk of Brian cheskey leading the way for destitution know money hoarding from unchecked capitalism more efficiently than ever before.
Too expensive and we like sleep and travel and time for our hobbies.
Plus no vaginas/anus's being ripped open and no shitting in front of a bunch of strangers.
Crushing economics aside, a lot of us watched Doug and now live in a future where we've access to all the gadgets that Mr Dink did.
I'd be ok with having kids if I could keep the job I like, but to afford it I'd have to leave academia or start playing politics to climb the ladder.
The option is there, but I'd invalidate a lot of work to take it!
The US only has a positive birth rate because of immigration. It probably won't be that long before we in the US follow Japan's example and offer incentives for people to be parents. After all, if the R's are feeling more that the "immigration is poisoning the blood of our nation and D's are in favor of helping young people have kids, everything is in alignment for that to work.
Always so hilarious to see politicians trying to impove demographics and outlets wondering "why don't we have kids" while absolutely 0 things are done to improve our financial situation.
Capitalism will do everything, but last thing it will do is share profits with people.
Maybe because it’s the only way many without generational wealth can afford to live.
people used to look at children as a way to pass on knowledge, culture, adn ofc, genes
nowadays our genes dont matter so much unless youre a super athlete or mega genius, so passing them on seems frivolous to many. then theres the interent, which houses knowledge on damn near everything. so i guess it makes sense why the desire to carry on would be outweighed at this point
I was gonna say. the phrase "double income no kids" arose in the 90s when "single income + kids" was a possibility.
Honestly at this point there are only a handful of headlines that cover about 90% of news stories:
-Young people 'choose' lifestyle choice that was forced upon them by external conditions.
-Young people are 'killing industry' that they are not paid enough to even dream of participating in.
-Rich person/people found guilty of or admitted to enormous crime will go unpunished.
-Someones totally unqualified opinion on a subject that we're reporting as news because they're rich.
-World ending, shareholders rejoice.
Rich people doing stupid things with money because they aren’t being taxed like they should so that the economy actually can survive.
FDR taxes the shit out of rich people so they had to re-invest the money into their companies or lose it to the government. That built a strong, industrialized America with good paying jobs. Ronald Reagan reversed everything and we've been in decline ever since. Still a huge number of poor people continue to vote Republican, against their country, and their own interests.
this might be the greatest comment on Lemmy
Seriously, someone save this and post it on X and Reddit.
Disaster capitalism!!! 🥳
By choosing, I think we mean that it's not an affordable luxury to do otherwise
oh trust me, the right wing would LOVE to take your ability to choose to procreate out of your hands completely. Abortion for sure, but also the the night after pill and even birth control. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/birth-control-is-next-republicans-abortion.html
I really wish that this was just a joke. Those fascists will take anything they can to make themselves feel powerful.
"Why aren't the poors having more workers??" - the same people continually reducing the status and security of the working class
If given the option or the opportunity ... the wealthy wouldn't mind the reintroduction of slavery and outright ownership of people
Choosing or forced to choose?
Choosing to not have children is becoming more and more accepted among younger people for a long variety of reasons, among them being climate and economy as well as "not going to ruin my body" and "well i just dont like children"
You pretty much nailed the entire reason for most of my friends and myself (mid to late 20s). We can all afford kids, but it's just not something anyone desires except for one or two people in our group of 14.
Most of us don't even dislike kids, but the thought of having our own is undesirable.
I struggle to understand how people can get over how terrifying and unpleasant having children is. Kids can be okay, except when they aren't, and that's often.
That is simply not true. Kids can teach you many things about yourself that you never knew you cared about. They open a part of this life you would never see otherwise. They are this thing that loves you no matter what and if you are a good parent you do not take that for granted and give it all you got.
I didn't want any for many years for all the same reasons as many here. And it changed. And it's great, for me. But if you choose not to or have doubts, don't. It's horrible for the kid.
Another thing that can happen is you can grow up able to see clearly that you're an obligation for your parents they didn't want. You feel like they're always angry with you even if you're perfectly behaved. Then they tell you they gave up their entire life for you, clearly bitter and regretting that.
There is a non zero chance I could make my kids feel this awful for existing, and that already would be a non starter. But on top of that there's like 14 other reasons.
I'm not sure what you're protesting about what I wrote. I didn't attack you. I just don't understand how people ignore all the anxiety they will certainly have with kids in addition to all the other additional anxiety if anything about the kid goes especially wrong.
Well this comment at least tells us something about how you might have felt when younger. I did not always see eye to eye with my parents but in the end, I felt like they loved me and the amount of happiness I experienced as a kid is almost immeasurable. I'm on team #nokids, but for a lot of people, the love they can experience through children is unique and powerful, and understanding that is not that much of a struggle for me.
That's the thing, having kids is a unique experience just like not having kids is a unique experience. Being an individual is fundamentally a unique experience. Yet this whole conversation gets wrapped up in normative language like this which clearly expresses social preference for the former.
When I hear someone say that having children changed them in a profound way, I don't hear anything other than "climbing a mountain is profound" or "laying on the couch all day is profound." There is uniqueness and profound cumulative existence baked into to every heartbeat, but apparently a lot of people have trouble with this simple idea.
My comment mentioned nothing about the positive sides to kids. They obviously exist. The point I was making is I am surprised so many people opt into the most anxiety I think you probably can opt into.
I'm good. I'm 40. Every day i despise the idea more.
Even if that were true, it makes parents sound like they have a god complex that needs to be validated.
It's because your brain gets flooded with parenting hormones which give you superhuman delusion tolerance for the first few years. That's why I'm always skeptical when people are like "it's hard but I can't describe how wonderful it is!"
Sure Ryan, that's totally not just the brain worms talking, I'll stick with dogs for my nurturing serotonin and I refuse to feel bad about it.
That does make a lot of sense
I feel the same way, but had already had my children at 21 & 23 before I got the chance to understand the options. I love them and don't regret my choices, but I would have certainly had a life with different focuses.
I'm older, but the majority of people I know that had kids were surprised by the first.
The best thing you can do for the environment as a person in a western country is not have kids.
That's not the only reason we aren't having any, but it's certainly a factor.
Caveat: the Jesus freaks on the right know no such restrictions
That said 100% you do you
Lol, the opening plot of Idiocracy
Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Then again I have no problem polluting and using up 2 hours of shower water and take tons of baths because others who never cared are doing it. So if you're being selfish, sure, go ahead.
Neither, really. More like are choosing not to go into child debt. Having a kid costs more than having a house. Good for this generation for taking control of their reproductive decisions.
But what you're describing is an economic decision.
Was just going to say that.
Of all my younger siblings/cousins/etc, the only ones with kids were accidents. Only I chose to purposely start a family, and that took me a decade of saving.
Choosing. Def had the option to have kids but decided not to.
Most humans choose to breathe for oxygen, study shows.
Unlike these "reporters", you know the answer.
"choosing"
low wages
no unions
housing is either a lifetime's savings for down payment on mortgage or a never ending escalator of rent fees
states taking reproductive rights away
states threatening contraception
climate change dooming the future
war - war in ukraine, war in palestine, war in africa, civil war being threatened by the chud down the street
Gee Mr Wizard, why don't millennials want babies instead of avocado toast?
Pretty much
they arent choosing it.
They are being forced into it because its the only fucking way to have a chance at NOT being homeless and crippled.
Oh no, make no mistake, I chose it.
However, even if I wanted them, how the fuck does one even afford them?
Don't get it twisted, many of us absolutely chose to not have kids because we don't want them.
You can both be right, you know. Many of us also agree with what this person was saying.
I used to want kids. I will refuse to have kids unless I can afford them, and until I can GUARANTEE that their human rights won't be stripped away by the whims of stupid people who are completely disconnected from reality. I won't bring a new life into a world that's rushing towards climate oblivion, either.
I'll sterilize myself before I'm ever forced to have kids.
OP: everyone in group x does y
Me: not everyone
You: you're both right - not everyone
?
And there is part of the problem in the eyes of those with power.... That thought that you have a choice in sterility. A choice to not have kids didn't used to exist and you attempting to keep warm and have some pleasure basically guaranteed that you would have more eventually. So that must be stripped in order for you to continue the cycle of having kids not by choice and add to the population that gets fucked over.
Agreed. These people are trying to leverage something many of us absolutely aren't interested in to push for necessities such as fixing inflation, universal Healthcare etc. Except that if those things were fixed it wouldn't change the birth rate much at all. That's why Republicans are forcing people to be breeding machines. Educated well off people know better to engage in an activity that is detrimental to their physical and mental health. And making a human means you're responsible for them until you or they die. That's the biggest mistake people make. They make a human, then wash their hands of then.
No one should have a child unless they are willing to commit themselves to that child 100%. I have a daughter. She's the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me. And if anyone willingly took substantially less effort than I've taken to try to raise her in a safe, healthy environment and prepare her for her future as best I can- fuck you, you should have worn a fucking condom.
No child deserves to be neglected.
Interesting/sad how simply due to circumstance, somebody’s absolute honest best at max effort/sacrifice can still be raising a kid in a favela.
Consider the top vs. bottom billion: I expect the latter half’s kids would appear neglected if they were suddenly transported to the former’s McMansions overnight.
That’s not to say the kisses and the love are any less, but the clothes and the education and the soccer practice? I’d bet certainly.
I hope within by two generations from now this kind of pondering is only possible from a historical perspective. The kids deserve it.
Hence my saying 'willingly.' You can't help being impoverished.
This is not a controversial opinion.
I make ~$200K a year. As a father of 5, I wish I had not had a single one. I love them, but the stress of taking care of them coupled with the future of the planet makes me regret life choices.
I find it interesting that you cite the stress of raising them as a factor in your regret. Could you not tell that was going to be an issue around the time number three came around? That's not intended to be accusatory btw. I'm genuinely curious.
You incorrectly assume I'm intelligent.
Haha fair enough
Ok not a Java dev but this would explain the excess children (lol)
Oh hell yeah I'll never pass up an opportunity to shit on a language i don't use. It's the programmer way!
Signed, a PHP developer. <3
Not OP, but I've found that the older they get, the harder it gets. Schedules are all over the place, and they start advocating for things they want to do that don't fit neatly into the family calendar (vs when you were able to choose everything for them).
Expectations for parents have also skyrocketed. Your "best" now is far different than what the 1990s parents were expected to deliver. And, of course, you love them and want to provide them everything they need, so you bend over backwards to make it happen. That's what society demands, too.
I don't have as many kids as OP, and I can't fucking imagine wrangling five in the current world...😳
Maybe they meant it like “there is now stress for helping pay for college at a higher cost than when they were born.” Or being stressed knowing if the family lives in a HCOL area (typically where those salaries are offered), they might not be able to live there as well with the current trends in housing costs.
TLDR: things have changed for the worst for newer generations, parents can see it.
God, I wish I was smart enough to lie this well. No. I like sex, and hate condoms. I'm the dum.
I do too, which is why I was on the table getting a vasectomy before the vernix was dry on our one and only kid lol
Kids are inherently stressful. They're like little abusive people who you can't legally defend yourself against.
He's a Java developer
Made a ChildFactory, may as well use it.
I'm sorry man, I assume you have a bit of family support in this regard?
My wife finally are in a point where we can afford to have children, but we are kinda getting a bit old to have children. So we are also choosing the dual income no children life style,
But a big part of that is our age and how long it took to get to a comfortable place financially.
Now we want to focus on saving for a house and retirement.
dinks
I don’t know what this means.
It's the acronym for the phrase in the article - "Dual Income No Kids". Might have been more obvious if it were in caps.
Thanks!!
How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
Mid 30s
That's not old, my man. Many of us are having kids in our 40s.
I'm one right here. Tired? Sure, but they fill our lives. This was 100% the right decision for us, but everyone has their own set of goals
What choice do they have if kids are basically unaffordable?
“When we advise clients about having children, we honestly don’t even give them the full real details and the real numbers,” said Shannon McLay, founder of The Financial Gym. “It’s one of those things if you see the math of it all, it might make you decide to not have children.”
what a whole generation of pulling the ladder up behind you will do to a society. Party of family values doing everything they possibly can to destroy familes.
In other words, "we trick our clients who paid us for financial advice into having children they can't afford".
Yeah, I hope there's some more context. That quote makes it sound pretty bad.
people won’t pay to hear ‘don’t have kids’
so they skip that part
Holy shit, what an incredibly unethical thing to do. "We're lying to the people who come to us for advice because if we told the truth they might make a decision we don't like."
Because we can't afford our own lives, how are we supposed to support children? Not even taking into account for how absolutely fucked we all are. Our planet is dying, how can we bring children into this world if it's all falling apart?
Hey you, I have a quick question about the username
Uh oh, this is awkward....
What are your thoughts on misandry?
I mean a lot of us wouldn't even if it they paid us. We finally live in a time where we know better and can choose not to be barefoot and pregnant (unless you live in tx).
Gee, it's almost like it's important for the long term success of society to have systems in place that make sure it's not a burden to create new people to take over for your generation after their bodies are too old and broken to keep working and society functioning.
Then again, the decisions have already been made by the people with the power to make them, and technology/automation are in line to replace workers. They'll be a little loud and problematic until the numbers naturally even themselves out, but we'll be left with an enlightened society of capitalist asset owners being supported by a massive technological network.
It would be a shame if a new Luddite movement came and broke the machines putting humans out of work they want to do.
Or give us a universal basic income and let humans do what they want to do to make themselves happy while the machines do all the work.
Makes a fascinating short story:
Jimmy thought his job at the data center was easy, clock in, watch the cameras, do the rounds, clock out. Good pay, low effort....
then 10,000 people showed up with hammers and crow bars. Jimmy was about to have a very bad day.
I so much hope it's going to be rhe second. I doubt it will 😢
What value is a universal basic income to the shareholders? That is the question to ask in this capitalist hellscape.
I'd say that sometimes it may even be beneficial to shareholders because they will not have to deal with people in the company that are there only to up the workspace numbers. You know, those job positions that only exist because of how wrecked the system is now
Put the value back into my income then, ye cunts.
I make the same number as my dad used to. His was a different currency but the number was the same which makes it awfully simple to put everything into perspective.
His house: 350 Mine: a little under half the size: 900
I'm already down 550 in comparison.
His insurance: 90 Mine: 160
I'm down 620.
His medicine cost and doctor visits: basically zero. Mine: 385 and half the medicine comes out of pocket nowadays.
This difference is hard to put into perspectice as the 385 is once a year and medicine depends on the situation.
Him: unemployed wife, groceries cost about 200 for a full month, owns a car and has 4 children.
Me: wife works and has a hobby that makes money, no car because no money left. Groceries: we eat about 2/3rd of what they did and pay 200 a week. No children.
We are down 1220 if we forget about insurance and medicine. I don't make 1220 more than he did.
Fuck this hellhole, you stole our life and i hope there is a hell for you scumbags.
Don't blame your dad - however much you resent him it's not like he has any influence over the economy. Instead blame the super rich who have real influence and are actively pushing policy to widen this social divide.
I doubt he does.
But it is partially their fault: they have the largest political clout by generation so welfare and zoning policies have always suited them at the behest of everyone else.
And even if people don't have kids, the rich aren't going to be impacted. They just use immigration as a stop gap until everything is automated away and we see wealth imbalance get taken to 11. I'm talking gated communities everywhere with poverty in-between (e.g South Africa)
"choosing".
Articles like this are not for you and me. These are written for investors.
The plebs aren't breeding enough future workers for us to exploit to deliver the promised renumerations to our shareholders.
We MUST find out the reason why! No it can't possibly be that extracting all the wealth into our dragon hoards, I mean, hedge funds is the reason why they're too broke to support children.
It can only be a LiFeStYlE cHoICe! Like being homeless or poor.
choice or forced the reconcile the gloomy outlook, the right wing would love to take even the right to choose away from the population. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/birth-control-is-next-republicans-abortion.html
Friend of mine wanted kids. Can't afford it. Both her and her partner work full time, though money was too tight for them to feel comfortable. It's heartbreaking, really.
"Choosing"
Why the fuck would I want to subject my own children to the inevitability of human suffering? I'm not going to make the same mistake my parents made.
If the world collapses because there are no more children, I'll consider it my greatest accomplishment before ending it all on my own terms.
It won't. Humans in general breed like crazy. It will collapse because of climate disasters.
What could rasing a child cost? 10$?
No, it's more like 25,000 bananas.
Quick math suggests that it takes about 2190 bananas to raise a child, with an average of 1 banana every 3 days. This cost does not incluce therapy sessions for the parents though, so is not a complete breakdown of the cost of raising a child.
That's half a star war!
Living that DINK life and still having trouble keeping out of debt. I can't imagine having to cover for kids, too.
Is doing so much heavy lifting in that headline.
Might as well be "More Titanic passengers choosing life rafts to ocean liners"
choosing life rafts to drowning
Kids? In this economy?
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
The world needs fewer people.
And no super rich people.
Yep
Nobody has babies anymore (except Sarah)
As I remember it: fundamentalists are repopulating the earth, and overall population will drop off before long, so don’t mind having & raising progress young minds.
Source
Just what I would have said. We're already too many in this little space.
Im a DINK! Just this year we bought a house, vacationed in Europe and are installing a new heat pump system. I interact with my friends kids and have nieces and nephews. I get to be the fun one and if someone poops or gets sick I can return them. It's like skipping right to the grandparent stage. I don't hate kids or look down on parents like some child free communities but I don't envy them at all. I totally get why DINKness is on the rise. Hopefully the stigma reduces as it become more common.
Sounds very expensive.
Yeah, pretty cool what not having kids can do for you
Still less so than kids though!
Not as bad as you would think. I am lucky to live in a very progressive state that is investing heavily in green technology. The state gave us a .99 percent loan we have sitting in a high percent saving account to withdraw payments from. The state also gave us like 6k is rebates just to get rid of our old Freon unit. We are hoping to cut our energy bills in half. So depending on where you live you should look into it.
Um, I'm sitting here wondering where they spent the rest of their savings. (Parent here.)
AMD calls 🚀🚀🚀
"Choosing"
"forced into"
I'm over here single income double kids. Opps lol
Why can’t I have no kids and three money?!
I'm single income no kids and go hang out with my sister's kids when I'm bored. When they start getting annoying I bounce.
You have found the perfect balance.
except maybe lacking the luxury of dual income which would come with the bonus of someone to snuggle with every night
I have to choose between snuggling or drama
Oh man, I used to think that but then I got older and found a woman that understands (like I do in reverse) that I’m set in my ways and expecting me to/being disappointed when I fail to live up to her ideal partner is just the wrong way to be. Being married and divorced multiple times does wonders for encouraging pragmatism.
yeah. drama sux.
Send 'em to the coal mines and you'll have three incomes
I already have two kids. Is it too late to adopt this lifestyle?
Sounds like 4 incomes to me!
Honestly yeah. I think a lot of these articles assume the "Move out on their 18th birthday" mentality, but I see extended family situations increasing because livability sure isn't.
If we raised our families in this cooperative fashion, even when the kids are adults, I feel like we'd be much closer to the stable "nuclear family" model than previous generations ever were, relying on a single generation's "breadwinner" and everyone else just being immediate dependents.
Instead of "paying rent", everyone contributes to the household's common good by covering portions of utilities and such.
I dunno maybe this just works for us because nobody in the house is "Boomer with a firm handshake" rich. But it works lol.
Only in Arkansas.
I think I once heard something about post-natal abortions.
Don't mind me. I'm the weirdo that legit loves being a parent.
I'm happy for you! We all take different paths in life and it's great you enjoy yours.
Me too, kids made my life so much better, but oof I hate when people push their lifestyle on others, child free and natalist proselytizers can both fuck off. We aren't going to run out of people, or get too many, you can see it adjusting even now. It seems so normal for people in a crowded world to want fewer kids, and slow birth rate is so much nicer than war or plague as a way to control population.
Ya... the only problem is WHO is having all the kids.
I think you should elaborate on it. Please tell us what group of people are having kids that you think should not be?
Generally, people that are less educated or with shitty values. It's not about genetics; it's about the perpetuation of bad culture. If I were to name some groups that typify this: religious fundies and under-educated rednecks.
It's hard to have this argument without coming across as advocating for eugenics, but I completely agree. The fact that increasing women's education is so strongly correlated with decreased population growth is not a coincidence.
https://wol.iza.org/articles/female-education-and-its-impact-on-fertility/long#:~:text=The%20correlation%20is%20strong%20and,children%20per%20woman%20to%20two.
The difference between a eugenicists and whatever the hell I am is that I think the solution is to educate more people, not to control their right to reproduce.
Right. There's also a huge difference between taking measures that affect birth rates and actively rounding people up and culling them. Eugenics has got to be the most equivocated term in the English language. Except maybe god.
It's a weird alternate reality. Do I love having kids? Absolutely! Would I love having none? Absolutely!
Seconded, can’t imagine life without my family.
Fellow weirdo here. I like the world where everyone who has kids is choosing to have them. Boils my blood to see neglect or abuse of the innocent.
"But we need your children to grow up and produce product and more children so that we can continue the cycle of funneling the value they create into the pockets of our society's most wealthy and well connected!"
That's why capitalism in the current state is not sustainable. Too much wealth and power in a small group which limits population growth.
Guess the crazed business owners should have paid more money to their lowly drones (who actually do all of the work) instead of taking larger and larger massive bonuses for themselves then.
Fuck them.
This is similar to the "correlation doesn't equal causation" fallacy.
Dual income and no kids, is due to the prospect of cost of living and raising a family out pacing income. Housing, vehicle, child care, tuition, are all the items pricing middle class out of options.
DINK is not a choice, if anything, it's more the result of not having the luxury to choose.
Nah dude, not having children is definitely a choice and is becoming more and more common
I think there's a very solid argument to be made that far fewer would be making that choice if the future didn't look bleak as hell. I would at least consider having kids if I thought there was a better than not chance that the world I leave them will be better than the one I was given.
Exactly. People need to stop acting like the economy is stopping them from making the biggest mistake of their lives. This is the ONLY good thing about the economy right now.
i think it can be both, tbh
This is a gross oversimplification that ignores a million societal factors. It's a choice for a lot of us. People used to either not have a choice or think they didn't. Many now know they have a choice and don't want to be broke and stressed. Like my parents were. You know, back when everyone was rich and happy.
It's a choice. And the exact choice compared to those who don't take that option is demonstrated at the beginning of the film Idiocracy.
I was lucky to get sterilized in Tennessee (pre RvW), and I'm absolutely hyped about it. I never felt maternal, and the feeling disappeared even more as I heard the 'discussions' about women's 'rights'. The more I was made to feel like a next gen's workforce factory , the more I realized a life of free time and savings was much more desirable.
I can't have kids either, one way or the other, and I am so fucking thankful about it
I very much enjoy the lifestyle that comes with it. It's less stress overall. And it's not exactly a fun place (current state of the world) for me to want to bring a mini me into.
I’ll bet my life savings it isn’t a choice for most….its a necessity these days.
Just the thought of having to be responsible for a child's welfare in this day and age would send my blood pressure through the roof.
Bummer when my friends now don't have kids. It robs me of the schadenfreude while they enjoy their childfree blissful and carefree lives.
We're completely happy being uncle and auntie
This actually was a choice that my partner and I discussed before we got married. I have lived a charmed life but my mental health still is not great despite that; hard to justify creating another version of myself whose life experiences are fairly likely to be worse than mine.
Additionally my brother-in-law requires additional support. He's an adult with learning difficulties and is unable to work. Eventually he'll need to come and live with us once old relatives have passed away.
My father was infertile but they elected to go for a sperm donor so that I would have the option to choose whether I wanted to have kids of my own. In theory they could have made me with IVF but I would have likely been infertile too. I hope I'm not letting him down but I remind myself that he was giving me the option to choose as opposed to some kind of mandate to procreate.
Dink here. It's marvelous
Single income supporting a family of 4 here, and it's the best life I could realistically imagine. I live in a low cost of living area and make enough money that we all live comfortably. Kids are getting everything they want for Christmas.
While you and I have chosen different paths, I am happy yours is working for you as well.
I am a father. If you don't want kids please please don't have them. Whatever residual guilt or obligation you are operating under I ask you to purge from your system. The world has enough problems without bringing kids into it that you don't want to raise. Being a parent is hard enough for people like me who want and continue to want to do it, I can't imagine how much worse it will be for a person who doesn't or didn't want.
Yes it is true to one extent almost all parents are rising to the occasion. No one is fully ready and there is never a perfect time. But this is a retrocon. Just because you can figure out something and muddle through doesn't mean you should have to be in that position to begin with.
Again please please do not reproduce if you are unwilling or unable to raise those kids. Leave the task to people who want to. If you still feel some guilt, for whatever reason, go look at some parent in your life and offer to help them with any little task. Even if it is just sitting on their couch playing with your cellphone while they can run out and buy groceries.
As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point.
Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest
the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest,
a process which had once favoured the noblest traits of man,
now began to favour different traits.
That is a misunderstanding of natural selection. Natural selection means the most efficient ways to live in your ecological niche have been selected for.
Sloths are not counter to natural selection. They're not fast or smart or strong. What they are is well-adapted to live in their environment.
It's from the movie Idiocracy. Which is more of a documentary at this point.
I wish. The idiots in Idiocracy were aware of their own stupidity, and when they found someone smarter than themselves, the ones in power immediately stepped down to let him tackle their most pressing issues.
The idiots IRL think they're geniuses, and when they find someone smarter than themselves, they run a smear-campaign and/or incite violence against that person.
Where we're headed is MUCH darker than the future Idiocracy portrays.
just keep in mind the big catastrophe still didn't happen, so people are happy in their delusions.
No way. Next you are going to tell me that plants don’t actually crave electrolytes.
They were, until humans became part of their environment.
thank you
It's you! Oh man, I really love your show.
I always feel cheated as an asexual/aromantic person. We shouldn't be forced to live with roommates for the rest of our lives just because we don't want to get married, which isn't really a choice, it's just our orientation like anyone else's. It's also so much harder when neurodivergence and/or social anxiety is an issue.
No one should be forced to get married or have roommates (or both) just to keep a roof over their heads. Everyone is entitled to have a little bit of privacy and comfort in their lives, especially if they work hard for it.
I can't believe I feel like I have to justify the desire for a studio apartment with no roommates.
Amen, AroAce SINK, with no partner to pick up any slack...I'm lucky currently to live with family that I get along well with, but they're older and not in great health, so that's not going to last forever.
If I had to redo my life, that's what I'd do.
Don't ever tell your children that.
Lol true
replace "choosing" with "can not afford"
With the insane costs of raising kids nowadays, might as well DINK FTW!
Dinkleberg😠
To quote System of A Down, “we don't need to multiply”
https://www.throwbacks.com/content/images/2018/02/the-2Bdinks.jpg
The Dink in Mr. Dink's name stands for Double Income No Kids, which would explain his ability to produce such "very expensive" purchases.
https://doug.fandom.com/wiki/Bud_Dink
The same applies to Dinkleburg in the Fairly OddParents. It's in his name. DINKLEBURG!!!!
Between a dude calling me "pedestrian" on here the other day, and this Bud Dink reference, I think it's a sign from the universe to show my kids Doug
"choosing"
👨🍳🤌
That’s me and my spouse. We love it.
Some people cant grasp that not having children because you dont want them is an option. I got a vasectomy at 23, single, no kids, because fuck em.
My sister in law would like to be made infertile as well, unfortunately no doctor will do it for her because her hypothetical husband might want children from her one day. Being female in America and not wanting kids is heavily stigmatized, in her case she just doesn’t like them
Hospitals don't do background checks for a surgery. Just lie to your doc. "My husband of 15 years and I have three already - they're great but we're definitely done! Here look at these pictures of... oh gosh darnit, I think I left my phone at home. Anyway, let's talk about this surgery..."
If it feels unethical, so is our backwards healthcare system. Stupid problems call for stupid solutions.
Username...checks out?
I'm a surgical tech, which is rock-bottom of the medical food chain, but I take my role seriously enough that it makes my blood fucking boil when people are denied care over bigoted or superstitious nonsense.
If we're going to hit our patients with that BS, why would we expect our patients to have any respect for the system that's giving them the finger instead of providing care?
If lying and cheating is what it takes to trick the system into working for a moment, then lie and cheat.
And more power to you. I just thought it was a funny coincidence that you're writing this with a username I could interpret as "a way not to have children". Didn't mean to take away from what you wrote at all. Sorry if it sounded that way.
Oh, not at all! I was affirming your comment. When I started on the fediverse I gravitated to the medical communities cuz that was the most familiar content, so I themed the username there as well.
Advocating for a good ol snip snip procedure tracks with that, so 100% on it checking out.
Any ire in my previous comment was directed at the broken-ass system I work for, not your post!
But Bezos and Musk both want 1 Trillion humans!
Musk pretty much only wants the white humans. Not sure about Bezos.
Well yeah how else is there going to be more
wage slavesMozarts?Even with dual income you can be homeless.
Say what you will about previous generations but the ilk of Brian cheskey leading the way for destitution know money hoarding from unchecked capitalism more efficiently than ever before.
Too expensive and we like sleep and travel and time for our hobbies.
Plus no vaginas/anus's being ripped open and no shitting in front of a bunch of strangers.
yea because that shit is bad ass
"Very expensive."
“Choosing”
Like choosing to not buy a Lamborghini!
Crushing economics aside, a lot of us watched Doug and now live in a future where we've access to all the gadgets that Mr Dink did.
I'd be ok with having kids if I could keep the job I like, but to afford it I'd have to leave academia or start playing politics to climb the ladder.
The option is there, but I'd invalidate a lot of work to take it!
The US only has a positive birth rate because of immigration. It probably won't be that long before we in the US follow Japan's example and offer incentives for people to be parents. After all, if the R's are feeling more that the "immigration is poisoning the blood of our nation and D's are in favor of helping young people have kids, everything is in alignment for that to work.
Isn't there a movie that starts out this way?
Welcome to Costco. I love you
Optimised into genocide.
🙋🏽♂️
Always so hilarious to see politicians trying to impove demographics and outlets wondering "why don't we have kids" while absolutely 0 things are done to improve our financial situation.
Capitalism will do everything, but last thing it will do is share profits with people.
The perfect wagies
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YCApeXCE0W8
Huzzah! We shall all DINK together!
articles like this are so weird as an aromantic person. like that's SO beyond off the table already
same as a romantic but infertile and autistic person