Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025
tomshardware.com
Microsoft, doing it's part to make the world a better place.
Microsoft, doing it's part to make the world a better place.
No it won't.
240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses, and cash-strapped public schools will continue to use whatever operating system their computers already have, forever, until they break, security implications be damned.
Windows
10XPTook this picture a couple of days ago:
i saw a kiosk once booting opensuse
This is a huge business opportunity for someone with the know-how. They should offer a consulting service that does the following:
Offer a support contract that severely undercuts anything Microsoft is
gougingselling. Offer basic training, too.Anyone who does that can make bank.
Would also need to get a burner phone number w/ answering machine to take calls from 240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses and cash-strapped public schools for any & all tech support questions until the end of time, because if there was an issue with system stability in any way whatsoever, or if the router went down or the printer stopped working, they'd assume it was the fault of 'the guy who changed everything'.
Linux is great & everything, but this sounds like a recipe for utter disaster, not a way to make an easy buck.
I can't agree with this more. People like to sell Linux as a magic bullet, but it does not and will not everything everyone needs without maintenance and people really like to hand wave or downplay that need.
Sure, you could find a solution for what they're using now. What happens when they need something else and they're so tech illiterate that they don't even know what you did to their machine? They wouldn't even know how to install new software, and if they did, they wouldn't know they need to click the Linux version, etc. It's not always about feasibility and available options, it's often about the fact that people just won't fucking know what to do. Even if you assume there are enough options available, they won't know how to do so.
And every step Microsoft takes to shoot themselves in the foot, and every step Linux takes to make this easier, everyone comes screaming about how much this could change things.
But until Linux has a HUGE market share - like in the 30-70 percent range - developers are not going to take it seriously and alleviate this process. Even with how well MacOS does, this is not even a solved problem entirely there - there are still hang ups and still software that doesn't get released for mac. Linux would have to pass where Apple is today for this to become remotely accessible to an every day person.
And even THEN there's the question of different Linux distros.
Most people only need internet access. Look at Chromebooks.
While I don't really disagree, look at the market share of Chromebooks. If "most people" only needed internet access, "most people" would be on Chromebooks by now. It's not like they're unknown anymore.
Not really how the market works. Inertia is huge, brand image (Apple) is huge, social pressure (Apple) is huge, simply not knowing is huge. The newcomer always has the disadvantage to get converts. (Not to mention many of the people that only need internet have iPads only.)
I lived in this town and there was this"computer and pawn" place. They did this to people's computers. I constantly had people come into the computer place I worked at very confused. Not knowing why they needed a password to install things, where is Microsoft office, how do I print, etc. Most of these people didn't have the money to put windows back on, but, those that did, did real quick. All this did was scare people away. If we started replacing Linux on people's computers it needs to come with a intro tech support plan and a short intro class explaining the basics.
At this point the people that benefit the most easily are those who only need email, Web browsing and or are old. People who work off their machine are going to use Windows and that former demographic usually just use their phones or a tablet now. At least in the US
Yeah hard pass.
Will I take advantage of the heavily discounted used market this causes? Maybe. (Assuming they manage to actually convince people they should move to 11, which also sucks.) But there's good reason not to be IT for people who can't manage it themselves. It's a huge headache.
See, the key flaw in your plan is expecting companies to shell out to upgrade their systems. Putting aside organizations who's infrastructure can't realistically transfer to a new system without scrapping it entirely, pretty much every business will run their systems until they have literally no other choice (ie it is functionally unusable/affecting sales) instead of "losing money" upgrading. MS stopping updates won't push them over that line, at least not for a while.
Cousin Vinny gives them a little taste of ransomware and reminds them your upgrade plan is actually a great deal
Meh, ransomware won't really drive an upgrade plan. That's what backup is for.
Any business incompetent enough to get owned by ransomware without a recovery plan isn't exactly the type with $ to spare for a migration.
That’s actually a decent idea if people are using boilerplate windows software. Unfortunately institutional software is unlikely to cross over, and even if similar software can be found to replace private users’ needs, there is going to be resistance to change. This doesn’t even touch anyone using specialized software. The resistance will be commensurate with the differences in workflow and usage between the windows and Linux software.
I mean, the whole point is people don’t want to change. The only way you’d win people over easily is directly cloning their windows setup.
Companies won't pay. Even SMB.
There's way too much stuff that only runs on windows, their users are used to windows.
You're telling them to spend a lot of money to transition, and take on a lot of risk.
It just ain't gonna happen.
Look at the current VMware issue to see what companies will do.
I feel the issue is if you're successful with this idea and get on radar of Microsoft, they will make sure to snatch away all deals from you by bidding even lower. They have money to lose. Small firms generally don't.
ROFL, and for a half of that cost and none of the risk, companies will just drop in new windows computers and keep the status quo...
My 76 y/o spouse loves Linux Mint. The 2017-bought desktop was deemed insufficient for Windows 11 and now runs Mint.
If all they use is a web browser and solitaire then putting them on Linux is super easy. Got my dad on Mint for years now. I recommend KPatience for solitaire needs.
yeah, other than the obvious "haha-ing in Linux" (which.. I also use Linux) - the REAL answer is people will just keep using the outdated Windows until THAT computer dies it's natural death.
Also third world countries where people can't afford to spend their yearly salary on a mouse.
When that time comes, would that create a period of insane amounts of scams?
Yes.
I wish you were right. Instead what we will likely see is an increase in year to year E-waste until the majority is phased out into land fills.
I dunno, computers aren't like phones where your provider is offering you incentives to chuck your old one every 2 years. There'll be an increase of waste from businesses for sure, but I think most people don't really pay attention to their security updates and will just keep using their pcs until they need a newer one for personal reasons (playing newer games, old one bricked, etc)
I'm seriously thinking of trying Linux when Windows 11 is forced. My computer has the specs to run it, but I'm just tired of Windows and Microsoft.
Unless you run some really niche software or are a heavy gamer, you'll likely have no problems and enjoy it. Most software that you need for daily use has a FOSS equivalent that's equal or better. Usually those are also available straight from the package manager (if not there, then most likely Flatpak).
Just stick with a well supported distro like Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, or PopOS, and it'll be super easy.
I'm actually looking forward to the perfectly good Linux boxes that are bound to be popping up at yard sales or on ebay once that happens.
Why I am still hesitant to make the leap. Not just do I mostly use my PC for gaming but I have a tendency to jump into a new game for like 3 weeks and then off to the next like the horrid ADHD having fuck that I am. I don't want to possibly have to work to make a game work each and every time. I know its gotten a lot better about that but still. Convivence has me trapped yo.
I was in the same boat. But Valve seriously made it easy to install and play games on Steam. If you have a spare drive, give it a shot.
Things I had to do were to turn on proton in the steam settings and installing vulkan drivers for my AMD card.
I honestly might with my next build this summer.
In a desktop (which is what you want for gaming anyways) why not? Easy enough to slot in a new drive and dual boot from there, no need to muck about with partitions like with a single-drive laptop.
If it doesn't work out, oh well, go back to Windows. But maybe Linux is finally there, and you'll find you don't need to go back
I was surprised by this.
Admittedly, I haven't played many video games in the past few years but I was a little disappointed when the list of Steam games for Linux was quite short.
Then I read about Proton. The first Windows-only game I tried worked great so I'm happy.
I play older games on a 1060 so I don't have a good sense of what the performance is compared to playing directly on Windows though.
as long as it's not a competitive multiplayer, it's more likely than not that it'll work out of the box.
Check ProtonDB. The overwhelming majority of games work just fine on Linux with Steam's Proton. I encounter a game that genuinely will not work on Linux only like once or twice a year.
You're attacking this from the wrong angle. Tinkering every few weeks with something new on linux can keep your ADHD occupied ;-)
As someone with ADHD this is exactly what happened to me when I switched to Linux. Continues to keep me occupied 3 months later
As an intermedia Linux user prior to making the jump 2 years ago, if you mainly game on Steam you're fine. Wine and Proton are mature developed now that most games 'just work'. Almost all the problems I've run into for gaming on Linux have come from trying to do something outside steam (although Blizzard and Activision games seem to be pretty low effort).
Once you get outside that, it's hit or miss (sometimes good hits. Sometimes bad misses).
What you'll have to say goodbye to is alphas, betas, and release weekends. They CAN function (I did all 3 Diablo 4 beta weekends last year with no issues at all), and there's plenty of early access stuff on steam that works fine even though the developers didn't care about Linux one bit. But usually if you're reporting issues on opening weekend for a new game, they're more concerned with making their game launch work for the 95%+ of users instead of the 5%. If you want stuff to 'just work' and don't want to spend your weekend tinkering with waiting for hot fixes or patches, you'll probably not want to make the switch. Or will want to change your mentality about which games you play and when.
That being said, the experience is constantly getting better. So in a year or two it may be a different story.
I run Pop!_Os. Steam with Proton is a gamechanger. Yet to find a game that doesn't just work with zero configuration.
There has been a LOT of progress since the SteamDeck launched. The only real barrier now is multiplayer games that run anticheat. And even some of those have been figured out.
Only thing I've found to really not work is head tracking. That's pretty niche though and I'm expecting someone to figure that out eventually. Almost every game ran no problem.
Like VR you mean? lol my next build is when I want to finally get into VR and try all the games I haven't been able to play yet :(
No, not VR. Headtracking. The head is tracked with something like a webcam to move the camera.
https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack Used this years ago in Elite without issues.
Try dual booting so you can test if it just works or if the friction involved is acceptable.
Actually with ADHD it's nice. Making something work under Wine (following the instructions from winehq.org) is a bit similar to a game itself
EDIT: Oh, there's another such comment.
If you have a spare drive, install Pop_OS! on it. Don't let people let you think that everything is a piece of cake. It can be a little frustrating. A lot of guides jump to "the rest of the fucking owl" or are made on older versions of software. Steam does make it easy but most games are not a matter of simply hitting install because they do not have a native Linux version. You have to right-click on the game, go to Manage, and then set compatibility to Proton (generally although some games need other settings added which you can often find in protondb.com). Is it worth? I like it. There are some basic things that can be annoying like my fingerprint reader not working even though fprintd supports it but I'm too lazy to make a bug report.
I suggest Mint for new users (and lazy old users like me). All of the simplicity of Ubuntu, without Canonical's shit
I almost went back to Mint on my last rebuild, but ended up going with Debian + Cinnamon. So far so good.
Not a good choice for people who want to play games. Debian focuses on stability so their packages are typically outdated.
Even heavy gamers are getting a much better experience on Linux these days (yay Proton!). There are a couple of anti-cheat systems that are still trouble some, but honestly if the developers don't want to to put in the much smaller amount of effort to make it work on Linux, I don't want to give them my money.
Sadly I have niche software and I'm a heavy gamer. But now it's becoming as much of a headache to deal with Windows threatening dumb upgrades that I might as well switch and fight with compatibility.
The more we do it, the more companies will be incentivised to make Linux work.
I'm kind of a power user.
Gaming. Multimedia (Video, Image, Audio). Application development. Web development. Getting into cybersecurity, so using a lot of VMs. Watching videos.
I've been making a Linux transition. So far, the stuff I still need to iron out:
-Adobe. Make it work somehow or replace. Can use it on a windows VM 🤷♂️. Happy to replace because fuck em. Working through options.
-VST managers for digital audio workstation. Most aren't on Linux (spitfire audio, iZotope, IK multimedia, iLok). Haven't begun trying to make them work. I e heard most can be configured in WINE.
-old MIDI program not working. No audio for MIDI. One program works, another doesn't 🤔
That's it. Everything else is working. Big challenges Ive had:
-bluetooth gaming controller took a lot of effort. Works great now.
-Epic games through heroic... Through steam on Linux... Through remote play on my phone... That was difficult. But it works!!
-remote desktop troubleshooting. Works fine now.
Oh and I can't get windows subsystem for Linux to work in my windows VM on my Linux machine. 🤷♂️
Ignoring the blasphemy of that, the fact it doesn't work may prove that we are, indeed, living in a simulated universe. lol
My Win10 machine is an audio workstation (DAW) so I am curious how the migration to Linux will work out. Reaper has a Linux port so that should be OK. Hopefully all the VSTs will still work and I’ll have to check on my Focusrite Scarlett. I am not buying a new machine just to run this stuff as it’s just a hobby.
I haven't powered it up in several years, but I keep an old Windows XP machine with my DAW software on it. I just always ran it offline and moved files with a thumb drive. That said, I never did try a native Linux solution.
Sorry for the uncalled advice, but if you're considering it, you might as well try it now. Specially in ways that don't limit your access to Windows, such as live USB and dual boot (Windows and Linux in the same machine, at the same time). So if you do decide "I'm ditching Windows", in the future, you'll have an easier time doing so.
Yup. Don’t wait until the W11 upgrade is imminent. Start it now, so you have a year of experience under your belt and can help your friends switch too when they’re forced to upgrade.
Pretty much all computers have the specs to run linux. Of some flavor.
The only thing stopping me from switching over to Mint is procrastination.
The hardest thing about Linux Mint is installing all of your software. It's daunting even for very established users.
I moved from Ubuntu to LM a few months ago and I've enjoyed it.
Do yourself a favor and do it now. Maybe then you'll be able to help others move to Linux who haven't done so before.
Then don't hesitate! You could easily install both side by side, in case you need some Windows exclusive software.
I have switched a dell laptop that windows 10 didn't support to pop os. (It was 7 years old) My whole family has used it for a few years to do everything without any issues. Ironically I have had problems with the Pop OS install on my newer more powerful machine.
Yeah I'm not as much of a fan of PopOS as I thought I'd be. I have it on my daily driver laptop, and every system update seems to introduce some wacky bug/glitch or another. Nothing major, just random small annoyances that usually get fixed in the next update.
It dual boots Pop and Debian, and Debian performs flawlessly. It's a Thinkpad, so Linux support has always been fantastic. I'm thinking of just dropping the PopOS partition and going back to my original love, Debian.
... Linux can run on a potato.
Yes, because normal people always throw PCs away when they stop getting security updates.
When Chrome/Firefox stop getting updates and websites stop working they will
So 5-10 years after Windows EOL
So at least 3 more years, plus however long it takes for website makers to use features exclusive to the very latest versions.
The only stuff that I know no longer works and is in common use is TLS. That's the only reason some of our customers updated from XP.
But that will only happen when the user base falls, so enough people will have had to move on organically, for popular tools like web browsers to give up.
Firefox didn't end windows 7 support until July of last year. 3 years after eol for 7 and when 7's market share among windows was around 3 percent.
And just eol'ing Firefox doesn't immediately break it, you will have at least a couple years before the browser becomes functionally useless.
most normal people are just going to be happy their computer isn't annoying them about restarting for updates every two days
Oh, Microsoft will still find a way to annoy them, mark my words
Companies probably will.
Hahahahahaha.......breathes..,.. hahahahah
But in all seriousness, they %100 will not. There are still companies that have winxp machines and servers on 2000/2003.
There is an entire sector of the secops industry built on protecting these machines.
That’s a lot of new Linux computers.
I want to believe.
They could move to FreeBSD
Ain't nobody got time for dat
Just informing you that installing FreeBSD has been faster for me than installing Linux in most cases.
It's nice, just lacks drivers for some hardware. Lack of drivers doesn't mean more time spent, it just means the hardware is not working.
Once upon a time, updating your hardware every couple of years was essential. Your new hardware was a lot faster for normal use, and everyone benefitted.
Over time, however, people could wait longer between updates, as new hardware didn't impact daily use all that much.
The powers that were grew displeased, and then decided to force people to update more often. Newer hardware had shorter lifespans, software forced newer hardware, software as a service became king.
The End?
You forgot the part where we all return to poverty so the rich can stay rich in the face of climate change.
That story isn't written... yet. The future can be changed, if enough people drive that change (valve is working wonders here).
Well you see, they learned their lesson from Windows 7 and having to support it for years longer than they intended to.
They know the same thing will happen for 10, because they are literally forcing a bunch of hardware out, even though all of it can technically run Windows 11 and just don't have a TPM 2.0 chip. They made this choice, this was a business decision and they know it's coming.
So what did they learn? To not give it away for free. Now they're rolling out a program to charge consumers for access to extended updates for Windows 10.[^1]
Back in the Windows 7 days, they only did that for corporations, extended updates with a cost attached. Now you, the consumer, get the joy of paying for these updates as well.
Not only are they purposefully creating trash, they're also squeezing people for money in the process.
They're doing exactly what they did with Windows 7, this time they just plan to charge you for the convenience.
Stay classy, Microsoft.
[^1]: "Individuals or organizations who elect to continue using Windows 10 after support ends on October 14, 2025, will have the option of enrolling their PCs into a paid ESU subscription."
You forgot the "best" part, which is that requiring TPM 2.0 is purely self-serving for Microsoft in that it serves no purpose but to make it more difficult to run non-Windows OSs on the hardware in the future.
Nobody needs a TPM except for the copyright cartel trying to destroy computer owners' property rights.
Oh I mean, I thought that was implied, but yeah, go off about it, it fucking sucks!
EDIT: In response to your edit. ACKSHUALLY the TPM requirement is a big deal for corporations, because it does help increase corporate security. The thing is, the average user doesn't actually need that extra security so much and will likely never use it so making it a requirement for the consumer-level Windows is abject bullshit.
Like I said, "nobody." Corporations aren't people; they don't count.
I don't know why, but your post made me question if TPM 2.0 expansions outside the processor are a thing. Turns out they are as long as your board supports them. I was just able to get one for mine for $25.
I installed linux. I only use browser and vlc and it works great. I am not buying a new machine when old one works just fine.
me too. 90% of what I need to do at home I can achieve on Linux, and the other 10% I just do on my work PC. And I'm learning Linux scripting which is expanding my computational abilities. I should have made this switch a decade ago.
This is the problem the PC market is truly wrestling with. The processor capabilities and memory needs of modern personal computing has basically maxed itself out. Any and all upgrades to data processing are fairly minute and therefore older PCs are remaining completely acceptable for far longer than they were just 15 years ago.
I don't think most people would be throwing their PCs out at all. Computers are a big expensive purchase, and people don't know that they shouldn't be running an out-of-date system. So neither Linux nor Windows 11 is happening, people would just happily go on with Windows 10 unless MS outright bricks their devices. Same for small companies. I would only be concerned about this for large corporations.
Again, Install Linux, get rid of Microsoft shit.
Yeah, because Linux runs everything!
Except... No, it doesn't. I love Linux for specific uses, but let's be real: it's not a valid replacement for windows yet. Not for ALL types of users.
When it is, then I'll be out on every street corner with you with a sign. But until then, can we not gaslight all of Lemmy?
If you can't/ won't upgrade to Linux, at least upgrade to Tiny10. TinyXP is still getting updates. The "Tiny" versions of Windows rip out all the extemporaneous crap that Microsoft put into Windows that makes it a bad OS
AFAIK, there won't ever be a Tiny11 distro, there's just too much shit to rip out of the registry to make that possible
https://archive.org/details/tiny11-2311
First I'm hearing of Tiny10 and starting to consider my options for jumping ship on windows. Anyone willing to give a short rundown/ weigh their opinions of linux/windows/other OSes. Video games are the main factor for me, with user control a very close second.
Nothing beats Linux if you're want control over your system. As for gaming though, you can check this website to see whether your games are compatible or not: https://www.protondb.com/
And if your games are compatible, then look no further than Bazzite - it's a gaming-optimised distro that just works out-of-the-box, no need to manually install any drivers and stuff (you can of course use it for non-gaming tasks too).
Also worth checking AreWeAntiCheatYet? if you play online games. Some work with Linux, some need elbow grease, others purposefully break it.
For us Linux users it's just a fire sale. Diet cheap PCs incoming.
Sounds to me like an opportunity for Linux and Linux derivatives.
I'll tell you hwat!
None of these PCs need to go to landfill. Linux
Tell that companies who would have to convert their software and / or re-train their employees.
Realistically, most companies replace their PCs every few years. So there are probably relatively few machines running in offices that don't meet the requirements.
In my experience it is more like every few decades. There's still PCs running XP or even something more ancient. If a company swapped their systems during the whole "W10 is the only OS you'll ever need" period, then they might be fucked.
Windows 11 can suck my stinky cock. Windows will successfully force my LAZY ass to Linux. I am already testing the waters with my laptop.
Take a bath. And get a job.
(but yeah, eleven is awful)
Lol Vista and povety is what made me switch
Or folks will just continue to use 10.
Better yet, 7
Win7 crew represent 💃💃💃
Some still cling on their old XP laptops.
Life finds a way.
Hello, it's me, a landfill
Those systems are going to be dirt cheap Linux boxes in the very near future
Or at least a couple will be for me
Cool, a prime opportunity to scalp even more old machines by the end of the decade once they become valuable.
There's a limit to how many selfhosted servers you can need in your home.
I've been saying for years I was going to move back over to Linux. This will be the push I need. Sadly my Dad is bad at computers and will need Windows 11 when using 10 becomes a problem. I'm throwing this at my brother since I was the one who got our Dad a Windows 10 computer. FU Microsoft, you peaked at XP.
I was in your place when Win7 died (Win 7 was the true peak, fite me :p) and made the switch myself, then.
Also linux is easy, probably easier, for parents to use. They don't game or do anything complicated, all they gotta do 99.999999% of the time is just load the web browser to do whatever they are doing. I have several astonishingly stupid family members running linux, with less issues than when they had windows.. So maybe you can swap out your dads OS without much issue. Just use a distro that has a more windows-y interface with a start button and the bar across the bottom.
Maybe a ChromeOS machine? It doesn't get more simple to use than that.
unfortunately it can be a minefield with each ChromeOS machine having a set update expiration date from date of first availability.
Linux doesn't require you to be good at computers.
I don't know about that. I recently switched from Mac OS to Linux Mint. I'm savvy enough to understand what I'm doing for the most part, but I have not had to use the terminal so much in ages just to get things working the way I need them to. The average person using a CLI all the time? I don't see it happening.
Even the install was not an easy task. I had to go into the BIOS, change a setting, install it, go back into the BIOS, change the setting back, then it worked.
I know everyone here wants people to switch over to Linux, but there is still a higher level of experience needed than the average person who just wants to watch Netflix is capable of or interested in learning.
Linux about to pop off
This year will definitely be Linux's big break!
Well, it hit 4% on desktop for the first time this year.
1 year ago, Steam Deck already accounted for upwards of 25% of Steam Linux users.
I don't currently have the data to back it up, but I'm pretty fucking convinced it's actually "The Year of the Linux Portable Game System" and not "The Year of the Linux Desktop."
Then think about what that means.
What is holding back users to switch to Linux? Games. For everything else a normal, slightly tech savvy user would want, there's Linux alternatives. Games are the only deal breaker. If the steam deck forces/encourages game publishers to support Linux, that's also a good thing for desktop usage.
Oh, I think it means great things, but I'm just pointing out that more people are switching to Linux for gaming than they are moving to Linux for a desktop. I think that will translate into more people being willing to try it as a desktop experience, 100% agreed.
Naa, fam. We have to fight over it. We're on the Internet, after all.
same as how it "popped off" when Windows XP got discontinued?
Y’all need to let it go. Linux is already mainstream, they just don’t advertise as much. Or, at all.
The only people that will really suffer from this is businesses. They will have to buy W11, and they will need to get supported hardware. However, businesses usually have rolling upgrades in place in the IT and have probably rolled out many already.
As for home users, with each newer generation, they become more tech savy. I can tell you now, this won't affect as many people as you imagine.
Pretty sure the opposite is true at this point.
I think it feels like this because we have so many more users now than 10 or 20 years before. So the percentage of tech literate users has declined while the amount tech savy people increases. with the pool of users being satiiated i think we will have an increase in the percent of tech savy users again (as old users die).
A fraction of those "old" computers will use Linux. Perhaps we'll reach 5% desktop market share soon thanks to Microsoft.
Linux hit 3% market share in June of 2023 and just recently passed 4%. It'll likely hit 5% months before Win10's EOL.
"Windows 7 appears to still be running on at least 100 million machines, despite Microsoft ending support for the operating system a year ago"
--Tom Warren. Jan 6, 2021.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/6/22217052/microsoft-windows-7-109-million-pcs-usage-stats-analytics
Maybe the landfill won't be overstuffed as quickly as expected.
See also
"Monthly market share held by Windows operating system for desktop PCs worldwide from January 2017 to November 2023, by version" https://www.statista.com/statistics/993868/worldwide-windows-operating-system-market-share/
It's a dwindling effect, not just instant abandonment.
yay i can finally get a good laptop on ebay in 2025! 😹
More people will switch to Linux once and for all.
Techies? Probably. Your average user? They will keep using windows 10. Just like they’ve been using XP, Vista, and 8(.1) wayyyyy past EoL.
Yeah, this is the more likely scenario.
It's not just consumers, a large proportion of the CNC machine industry still runs it's machine operating system on windows XP for what they claim to be "reliability". But I call bullshit, they just don't want to spend more money on software development.
Unfortunately they wont.People will rather use an unsecure Windows version than try something new.
Most people actually don't even know you can change what OS came with the computer. They think Windows is part of the computer. So they happily accept the idea that Windows 11 needs a new computer. They will probably use windows 10 wayyyyyy past EOL until the hardware itself fails, and/or just buy a new computer with windows 11. Most don't know Linux exists or that they can install it. They think they need a "linux computer". And then searching "download linux" on google or going "linux.com" (like I've seen many people do) doesn't help people very much to be honest...
The great LINUX uprising of 2025!!!
Not quite 2025, but: https://lemmy.nz/post/7859245
Keep me posted.
And thanks for the link to the images!
Not enough apple PCs in those.
Meanwhile Apple does this every few years and nobody cares.
Technically, they do this every year.
Just thought an old MacBook to put Linux on. Thing is almost 10yrs old and still has OS support from Apple That’s not too bad imo.
Chromebooks are the really fucking villain. 3-4 yrs and it’s off to the landfill. What the fuck?
Perhaps because their expensive computers are nowhere near as widespread as Windows ones.
I'm getting super tired of Microsofts OS as a service. There is absolutely no reason to make operating systems obsolete.
Remember when MS told you that W10 is the last OS you ever need?
Yes, I do, they tried so hard to force it on me too. They went so far as to pre-download it onto my computer without my permission, and then got sneaky and tried to call it a "patch".
That's what ended up getting me: when they disguised it as one of the regular service updates and installed it on my machine while I was away. Bastards.
Launching Windows 11 in the midst of a semiconductor shortage was such a dumb move on Microsoft's part, especially when 11 doesn't really offer that much more than 10. The only real 'groundbreaking' new feature (multiple desktops) was something that Linux had fifteen years ago.
even windows xp had it with microsoft's powertoys' virtual desktop manager
what are you talking about? if you mean virtual as the others think, both linux and windows have had that for 20 years. if you mean something else I really really want to know.
anyway it also has better wsl (backported to 10 eventually), generally better performance and battery life, etc. it also had a mac dock that prevented me from doing the upgrade for 3 years lol.
Is "multiple desktops" different from virtual desktops? Because i've been using virtual desktops in Windows 10 for a while now.
I can barely keep track of my one desktop what are people doing with multiple desktops?
So 2025 will finally be the year of the Linux desktop?
it will be the start of the age of the insecure Windows 10 desktop
It might be for me. Or at least sometime. When win10 support will be dropped or whatever I might eventually make Linux my main OS. ~Just a matter of time😅
This is such an old article at this point. PCs don't get sent to the landfill because the OS isn't supported anymore. That's idiotic.
These stupid headlines. Just like when iPhone 15 switch to USB-C and there's tons of bullshit like "Millions of lightning cables and accessories will become e-waste", like all the previous iPhones will disappear over night or something.
For some people Windows is the PC,like Chrome is the internet and they only "google" things. What a world...
I built a new PC last year and bought a copy of Windows 11. Holy moly the login process required so much bullshit that I skipped through. It also every few days tries to get me to go through it again. After learning about all the Spyware and other bullshit I decided to just take the plunge back into using Linux as a main OS.
A couple of years ago I was trying to reinstall Windows 10 without Internet. I hadn't bought a switch for that room yet so ended up having to unplug another computer so Windows "Special Snowflake" 10 would let me a little easlier set up the admin and user.
This isn't a problem if you're still using Windows 7! ;-)
I don't think eol is your worst concern on windows 7
Reject Windows, emabrace Linux and FOSS Software
It's beating a dead horse, but there are plenty of user-friendly Linux versions out there that will run just fine on most computers that ran Windows.
Windows is still a must in my workplace though, some proprietary doesnt have linux version and runs like garbage in wine.
Why would you send 240 million PCs to the landfill when you can install Linux on all of them?
Sadly most users don't know Linux even exists, or don't know how to install it or don't even think about trying to. Many people legit don't even know they can change what OS came with the computer. They think its "part of the computer" like an iPhone or iPad. They just accept their fate and buy a new PC. Or ignore the warnings and keep using windows 10 until the hardware itself fails.
Wine + proton/valve has made it very easy to run most anything windows related nowadays. I would expect this to help make Linux gain market share.
I'm still on the fence if gaining market share is a good thing ultimately, but I'm hoping to see it play out.
Yeah Helldivers 2 is an example of a game that is mindblowing to me that it runs at all. If this were 2021 the process would be something like:
Download Doitsu-jin's DXVK from Github...
Download some scripts Joshua Ashton painstakingly created from Github 🐸 to get GameGuard to work...
Get one very specific version of Glorious Eggroll's Wine "fork" with patches.
Try 5 different launch options, Winetricks, and cross fingers that you get more than just the sound.
Every update would need to get a new version of the script fork or introduce a new workaround. Those that use Lutris/PlayOnLinux would hopefully have their scripts updated within 2 days if lucky.
Fast forward to now: Click Play and everything is set up. Hot damn.
I've thrown older games at proton and wine and have made them work. Meantime the same game will work on Windows 10 with heavy modifications and does not work in 11.
Also at work, we are dealing with a legacy app that runs... everything? Or at least just about. It works in Windows 10 but has some bugs in 11. I'm tempted to see if wine can fix the issue lol.
Fuck microsoft, on the bright side thing of all the cheap 2nd hand hardware
I'm pretty sure Microsoft's intent is to drop these non-paying non subscribing customers and let them use Linux. Microsoft is 100% focused on promoting Azure consumption, Microsoft 365 and Microsoft Enterprise Agreement customers and not delivering operating systems for people who won't pay monthly.
They were data mining on non subscribing customers tho, in age of AI nowadays, data mining on real living people is good business
Some very small percentage of people will switch to Linux, the majority of people will just continue to use windows 10.
I feel like MS could avoid everyone’s gripes by simply not charging for their security update program. 7 to 13+ years is going to more than cover when most people would’ve upgraded anyway.
That’s not how software works. Maintaining an OS until the end of time is a real problem.
Should they be maintaining the beloved windows xp still?
For real. I would expect this separate to have a marginally better understanding of software development than your average Joe but I've been quite disappointed in this thread.
Maintaining software is extremely expensive when it's as expansive as this. We're talking hundreds of millions per month for something like Windows just in salaries. Long term support has to be financed, that's the dirty reality, people have to be paid to do the work.
The whole point of charging for it is to incentivise people to install Win11, imo. They want to avoid what happened with XP/7, where people clung to it for years.
"Windows 10 is unsupported and you will probably get scary viruses, but don't worry, you can pay our security subscription or you can download Windows 11 for FREE right now!"
I wonder how long it will be until Windows is a subscription based desktop?
It already is, but it isn't mandatory, yet.
Let's not mention the extended update service that people can buy for three years and that will make the oldest incompatible CPU 10 years old at that point...
Or the fact that people don't even realize or care that they don't get updates anymore...
What a weird way to say that the OS they bought will stop being supported on their 7 year old CPU unless they pay a subscription.
On a bit more serious way, it's a bit of a slap in the face that, you could buy W10, in theory as a single payment, with no announced EOL, and now they say that even though they are going to keep working on security updates, you have to pay extra for it.
I would have respected more of there was no extended period. This way they are encouraged to have higher W11 requirements, so that they can earn more with OEM licenses and subscriptions. And given the nature of the OS and telemetry, they are extremely informed about the install base, so it is a very calculated decision.
Don't worry, not a single consumer will buy extended support. They won't even install crucial security updates to their computer without being forced to by Microsoft.
Gotta get my finances in order by then so I can buy all the "obsolete" computers I want
By looking at data from statcounter, both windows 7 and xp had dropped support when they were at around 3% and 0,5% of global usage, respectively. This time, Microsoft plans to drop support for windows 10 next year, but it's still on 67% of usage. Either I'm missing something here, or they're going a very weird route...
FWIW W10 Enterprise LTSC is good until 2032
Good thing there a myriad of other Linux distros that run everything 90% of home users need.
Go ahead. Drop support for Windows 10. I stopped your mandatory updates months ago.
You cannot hurt me any longer.
I still have a box running 7. People around here act like it's the end of the world.
"Oh no, security, updates, blah blah!"
I've had 1000x more problems cause by updates than being hacked. And I've been using this stuff since DOS 4.x, Windows 1.0, etc.
My father in law has Windows 7 machines that he uses for scientific work that he refuses to update. His solution is to prevent them from connecting to the internet. Unfortunately not willing to try modern Linux.
That's a valid use case though. At my work we had machines running XP up until a couple years ago because they were purpose built and weren't connected to the internet. There was no reason to upgrade until the entire tool was upgraded.
just use linux instead.
why are people allergic to
windowslinux?Gaming is the primary driver behind my PC choices by a humongous margin. I'm not really concerned about imvasive anti-cheat software, I don't want to tinker with settings, I want to turn on my computer and play video games. That means I use Windows.
As someone who just installed Linux Mint as a test and uses their machine mostly for gaming:
Linux is perfectly fine for that, too. I had one minor issue that was fixed by plugging a cord into a different plug on my machine and have otherwise had 0 issues getting things to run on the Linux partition of my system.
I actually have seen mostly better performance in the realm of about 10fps better per game than the Win 10 install on the same hardware
Spent less time tinkering with the settings (done via GUI that makes more sense than windoes' 15 different settings menus) than I never have in any version of Windows, synched my firefox over, boom.
Not gonna say Linux is perfect for everything but it does seem a lot of people think it's harder/worse than it is by a mile
This right here. Lutris, proton, WINE, proton-QT, winetricks... Just so much shit.
I'm really trying to learn it but..it's a bit much
That doesn't compute here. Like I have literally 0 problems with Windows. That's certainly not been my experience with Linux. Oh bought a new drawing tablet, nah that won't work. Oh need to update for firmware on a device, yeah better have windows. Oh you bought a recent printer, better not use Linux.
I don't think allergic is the word you were looking for.
You mean addicted? If they were allergic, they wouldn’t use it.
i meant to say linux not windows
derp
My PC isn't Windows 11 ready. That's why I bought a raspberry pi, and am running android now. If I feel like resurrecting the old machine, I'll run LMDE or something.
So far, I haven't detected any negative consequences.
Linux Mint is fire BTW
I'm running it on all my systems except my main rig currently and it's been rock solid
Yes. But to be fair they would have ended up there anyway.
I've got a computer with a copy of XP on it that still runs. Not connected to the Internet anymore, but it still functions as a computer otherwise.
I'd guess that's sooner than needed and that means more waste
At least it'll do wonders for the used market, hopefully.
So does anyone have a good strategy for transferring non giant things? Like I have a ton of unorganized pictures, documents, videos dating back to my 2009 1TB HDD that still works.
I think I want to run Debian mostly because I don't know any other build well. Well RHEL, but I want to keep it similar to the Steam Deck as I can
Dump it into a NAS. Synology makes a decent 2-drive NAS that is easy to maintain. They have a decently long lifecycle and even upgrading hardware is usually just moving the drives to the new unit and powering it on.
1TB is easy, a sata to usb 3.0 adapter is like $10 and will transfer all that data in a few hours. If you are more patient just setup the drive as shared in windows and transfer it over the network. I just copied about 7TB a few weeks ago to a new NAS over the network and I had it done over the weekend.
Note to self: sell laptop on Facebook marketplace in September 2025
Note to self: buy cheap hardware for self hosting on Facebook marketplace in September 2025
Ah, the WIntel cartel is at it again. Planned obsolescence.