why isn't anyone calling for Trump to drop out.

fyi most Lemmy instances do not censor slurs, so unlike YouTube and Xitter you don't have to worry about that here

Why did you censor cock?

Seemed like the thing to do. Apparently struck a nerve lol

I’m calling on trump to commit suicide for the good of our country.

personally extending that to a fat majority of republicans

Most of the people who think Trump should drop out have been loudly opposing him for a long time. There isn't just one single thing they object to, no great unifying theme they can point at and say "This is why he should not run," because Everything about him is a reason why he should absolutely not be president. Even his Felony conviction is, while perhaps more than a drop, just a splash in the bucket of what should be utterly career ending circumstances.

The people who still support Trump don't care about any of that. They're not going to suddenly see one particular turn-off and decide that's it, that's why Trump should back out. They're committed, in too deep, they can't back down now because it would mean the Libs were actually right all along, and that presents, to them, an existential threat. And in the end, it's the Republican way.

When Democrats, even popular ones, fuck up, other Democrats are much more likely to turn on them, to call for and get resignations. With Republicans, that's almost unheard of. Republicans take Part Unity to an extreme, circling the wagons and assuming a full defensive position no matter how incredibly abhorrent the crime, no matter how blatant the evidence. Today we're seeing the perfect example. Biden fucked up a debate, stumbling over his own words like an old man well past his prime, and the party is calling for him to step down. Trump has built his whole political career on stumbling over his own words, with the only cogent statements he manages being blatant lies, and his people would rather murder their neighbors than see him lose.

14 more...

you think rape and pedophilia are going to turn off republicans?

Savage!

And accurate, fighting both existing and new minimum marriage age requirements has been a priority for Republicans in like 10+ different states over the past 5 years or so.

Most people who want him to drop out were never going to vote for him anyway.
People (perhaps erroneously) perceive a chance of Biden actually doing it. Trump will never drop out as winning the presidency is his only shot at avoiding incarceration. He'll probably run again in 2028 if he's still around by then.
Trump isn't incumbent, meaning the GOP already had a full primary in the past year. They've already determined they don't have a better alternative. Technically the Dems could have nominated someone other than Biden, but it was never a very likely possibility, so people aren't as familiar with Democratic alternatives.
Republicans either don't believe any of the criticisms you made of Trump are true, are okay with them, still believe him to be the lesser of two evils, or some combination of these. This is largely due to right-wing propaganda e.g. Fox News, OAN, Info Wars, etc.

I'm no expert, these are just what I perceive to be happening. There's probably other factors at play as well.

Edit: with the recent supreme court rulings, I'm guessing that he may be able to avoid jail even if he doesn't win. I still don't see any chance he'll drop out.

In fact, an incumbent president has never lost a primary in all of US History.

An incumbent President HAS placed third in a general election, though.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

Doesn’t the US have a two term (total) limit?

The constitution has decreed a two term limit, now let us see it enforce it. Pieces of paper may tell us how power is to be used, but in the end paper is paper, and power is power. A lot of Americans call on the power of the constitution while ignoring what it says.

SCOTUS ruling that amendments are more like suggestions

Yes, my comment is assuming if Trump loses this year, I'd bet he'll try for a second term in 2028.

Most people who want him to drop out were never going to vote for him anyway.

Isn't that sort of the problem? He's way down in the polls because most people aren't going to vote for him?

"Way down" based on what poll exactly? Both of the candidates are within 2%, certainly within margin of error.

Biden isn't really any different % wise than a month ago. Trump is up 1% from a month ago. It's not like it's 60/40, it's 42/39.8

it’s 42/39.8

When less than 40% of the population wants to vote for you, that's really bad

When less than 50% of the population wants to vote for you, it's obvious you're a garbage candidate.

Let's get rid of the garbage candidates. Maybe there's some adults under the age of 60 who aren't total shitbags we can nominate.

Let’s get rid of the garbage candidates.

We had a primary for that. Unfortunately, only one serious Dem wanted to participate

Don't get me started on the DNC and the fact that the voters really don't have any real choice when it comes to who is elected.

I'll never forgive them for screwing Bernie and handing the election to Trump by picking Hillary.

If a democrat fucks up, that's big news because they're supposed to have their shit together and act in the best interest of all of us.

If a republican fucks up, that's expected. Any articles about that are like 'water is wet'. It's not informative because we all know, even the conservatives who vote for them, that they're in it for themselves and are out to get everyone else.

The truth is that Trump has done more for conservative causes than any president prior. He installed the far right justices that have toppled Roe v Wade and affirmative action. He enacted things like the Muslim travel bans. In short, either they know he's a scumbag and don't care because he gets results, or they don't believe their own lyin' eyes because look at the results he produces. It's all about the bottom line, and the ends justify the means.

For the voters, they really don't believe it. I have conservative family members. Everything is always "Oh that's just bullshit cooked up by the crooked Biden crime family" "Oh he didn't mean the words he said very clearly, what he really meant was blah blah blah" followed ten seconds later by "I like him because he tells it like it is"

I just don't get it. What makes this guy seemingly have a force field that can make people deny their own eyes and ears? Ignoring morals here, just thinking with those patterns would give me a cognitive dissonance aneurysm.

Closeted socialist here. I work in an extremely remote 24/7 process industry. They play Newsmax on the TVs in the chow hall and the only time they don't is when they are replacing tvs. EVERYONE here is a degree of an alt righter. Some were at J6. Some have "Alex Jones was right" on their thermos'. I honestly believe some would kill me if I said I've read Marx. Not a single one of them could accurately define a political, economic, or social system without distracting with tropes, jingoistic rhetoric, or whataboutisms. Academic education is brainwashing. Christianity is a brand-name but you don't have to read the Bible to be a christian. I made the mistake of expressing my disappointment of Trump because of what he has said about veterans. I was mocked for believing propaganda and over time I have become known as "the liberal". That was all it took.

It's frustrating, and I daily struggle with unchecked bigotry. But most people here do not wake up and choose to be racist or evil. They are doing what their wildly misled moral compass is telling them to be righteous. In their eyes, the pandering of the media that we see is absolute and total corruption to them. The media does lie, they have lied. Most of them couch it In ignorance and a whispered redaction, but that's all it took. If they can lie about anything, then they must be lying about the unflattering things. There's a bit of head-in-the-sand and delusion, but in their eyes the rape, the lawsuits, the theft from taxpayers, all of it is exactly what they would say if they were trying to make him look bad. That's enough for them.

I honestly don't blame them. They have fallen for grifts, lies, and propaganda that goes back at least 200 years.

Critical Support for ZMonster. I also have to suffer ignorance with MAGA friends and family. Stay safe.

🙏 Good on you. Thanks and same to you. Luckily I used to be petulant and conservative so I can fit in when I need to. And my income is used by my partner to raise a child surrounded by love, understanding, and encouragement. So I feel like I'm filtering a portion of capitalism into raising a little communist. 🤣 It's enough to keep me gritting through the xenophobia. 😬

We saw fireworks last night, and my daughter mentioned, “Is that why your property taxes are so high?” I laughed. Raising class conscious kids is fun . 🤩

at the end of the day they are idiots who fell for a grift as old as time.

I think this type of thinking is just as toxic as the thinking of the ones you so quickly call "idiots". Not only do you fail to affect the situation in any positive way, but you harden the commitment of those that fell for the grift. Furthermore, you're blatantly wrong. I'm sure there are things you are ignorant about. I'm positive I could find things that you think that I could demonstrate to be wildly inaccurate (mostly because I work in a very niche field that very few people do). None of them would make you an idiot. It's okay to not know something. I'm not saying you should pander to anyone, but patience is a balm. Have some.

I feel ya. I didn’t talk to my mom for 2 months after she voted for Trump. This, after 4 years of me detailing his actions. Then I realized that it’s not their fault. They were never given the tools to navigate politics with education. The media lies to them. And their social circles repeat these lies. I was once just like them.

No doubt. Every friend I have is a trumper, but my best friend believes in the cabal. It's tough and it's heartbreaking. But I decided I'm just going to be an example of tolerance if nothing else.

Ah yes, tolerate their intolerance. Sounds like resignation to me.

I'm sure it would.

For sure, because I know exactly what you mean because I have already lived it.

I used to work at a place where an entire department was like that. They'd always have Jordan Peterson's latest talk/show/podcast on in the background, MAGA merch, etc. They'd always have the facial expression of an inmate mugshot. And they'd always be super short with people. One of them made a point of saying the N word as much as they could.

Any time I had to interact with them I'd dread it. I can only imagine how terribly it would have gone if I had dared say anything political in earshot of them.

Because they hate who he hates. It's that simple.

I said the same thing the other day. They don't care. They just want results. It could be a ham sandwich that is starting to mold, and if the ham sandwich got the same results, there would be morons out there wearing ham sandwich hats.

Moldy ham sandwich '24

Has a nice ring to it.

Perhaps you missed the last almost 4 years where people were doing precisely that. There was this whole thing with Ron Desantis, and Nikki Haley, and the brainworms inside of JFK, Jr., etc. It didn't work, and his base chose Trump, if not unanimously then close enough to it, and also far back enough in the past for such a call to not be relevant anymore. Plus conservatives are just different kinds of people - for them, power is not bestowed upon someone by We The People, but ripped out of the people's hands by force of will. Might does make Right after all, in their playbook.

But Dems are not choosing Biden. Also, no primaries are being held. So asking him to drop out is the last hope before holding your nose and voting for him anyway, hoping against hope that just like for Hillary, others do as well (although in that case... well, I'm sure this time will be different. Why am I sure? Bc... shut up, that's why!:-P /s).

holding your nose and voting for him anyway

Funny, because Joe Biden's policies are popular with Democrats AND Republicans. The MSM, one the other hand, seems to believe everyone wants a dictatorship so they are attacking Joe Biden for bullshit reasons. Make no mistake, the right will seize power and end your freedom.

The mainstream media is bought by the trillionaires, so I'm mostly ignoring them.

I thought The Atlantic was basically the last one left. Even The Guardian has encroached first into clickbait titles and now several paragraphs at the top of clickbait content even if the latter part of an article can finally get into real stuff. So it is in transition as it finishes off the enshittification process it already began.

But The Atlantic... I hold to a different standard, in my mind, and when they speak, I still listen. Perhaps I shouldn't - can you point to an example from them that shows that they have jumped the shark too? The Atlantic isn't in the same class as e.g. the NYT!!?! They are still worthwhile (I thought?)!

So media aside, people - especially young people that don't have the personal history with political matters - they watched the debate, or saw clips of its worst moments. They see this shit with their own eyes. It's not just the media doing a hit job, as has been true in the past. This time it's real.

Asking your President to remain awake during a conversation, especially one prepared for literally weeks to months in advance does not sound like bullshit to me. Rather it sounds like the basic foundation for any job that I've ever had personally, and have ever so much as heard of.

Perhaps Biden('s people) should not have agreed to a debate in this format, giving only 2 minutes for each question, that favored Trump's style of false but pithy statements? Nonetheless, he did agree...

Also I'm not saying he's senile, though I would like for a real test to be done. In any case, can we agree that it doesn't matter at this point? Doing the debate in that manner caused a LOT of harm to his campaign. Maybe I'm just not stating it in the right words, but that's more along the lines of what I mean...

In more detail: we cannot control people. Hillary Clinton failed to earn sufficient votes, and Trump won in 2016. Now, is Biden repeating the same pattern? Vote Blue No Matter Who is an authoritarian dogma - but we have no power to enforce it. People, especially the youth, will do as they please. The only hope is to try to earn it? That's going to be a LOT more difficult now, than it was prior to the debate...

"Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."

I actually disagree with this sentiment.

There's clearly a split in the Democratic Party regarding the candidates and leanings of the old guard, vs a very large portion of their voter base that wants structural reforms in the country (universal public healthcare VS increased access to insurance, for instance), and I bet a large portion of the latter feel whipped into having to vote for a lesser evil rather than for a political project they actually have passion for.

Meanwhile, Trump was an outsider of the Republican party who managed to get their voters in love with him, to the point that he managed to hijack the party and leave it ripe open for a transformation from neoconservative to proto-fascist, despite the Republican old guard initially being hostile towards him.

The Republican party has managed to stay competitive, despite their political goals being less popular overall in the US than the Dems', precisely because they allowed themselves to mutate and stay responsive to the changes in the electorate, the obvious tragedy being that democratic institutions (mostly referring to both political parties) have been far more willing to incorporate far right nutjobs who want to end democracy than they have for left-wing populism that wants to make housing affordable.

I don't know if you don't realize it, but you just agreed with the pithy quote.

My point is that plenty of high-information Democrat voters ultimately fall in line, but the party fails to reach further beyond, while Republicans don't actually have to "fall in line", because they like what they're voting for. Is this not the opposite of the quote?

It depends who the Republicans and Democrats are. Republican Voters fell in love - Establishment Republicans fell in line. Republican Officials all talked about how terrible Trump was and would be but still get on their knees when it's time.

Democratic Voters fall in love, with Bernie and AOC and their guy. Establishment Democrats tell them to get in line... Well, the Voters either do or don't show up.

So, you're correct that the original subversion was true but it also depends on who any individual commenter references as "The Dems" and "The Repubs" which you can always shift to suit your needs.

The Republican party pretends they're wagging the dog but they don't even have a leash.

Democrats spend all their time telling anybody left of the mid right DNC establishment to eat shit except for the lap they take during election years to blame all their woes on those same leftists.

Since I've been able to vote, I've heard this. But the people in charge of the Democratic Party never seem to want to get people to fall in line. They're content to be the default alternative to a party that demands rigid adherence.

Nobody fell in love with biden in 2020. He was crowned the nominee because they told everyone that somehow out of all candidates he was the best chance against trump and democrats fell in line, just like they did in 2016 for hillary.

The illegitimate SCOTUS failed to rule on his 14th Amendment disqualification because they don't care about The Constitution. The fact that he is even a candidate shows how many republicans wipe their asses with the document.

Because his supporters support him to "fuck the liberals" they don't care that trailer trash will get fucked harder under trump

The American people called for him to dropout in 2020. He didn't listen.

I didnt hear this. Maybe because I was too far away in europe, but it didnt seem, that the US had enough of this pussygrabber

He lost the election. Twice, actually. He's never won the popular vote. He was only the president because of a broken system.

It just doesn't really sound like "people called him to drop out, if almoat 50% of a country vote directly for him

Correction: 33% of the eligible voters.

66% of eligible voters voted in the 2020 election. Almost half of those voted for Trump. That's 33% of eligible American voters.

Also, not all Americans are eligible to vote: felons in certain States, non-registered adults, children, etc.

I may just be being pedantic but it annoys me when I see people claim that half of America supports Trump/fascism when it's just not true. The number is probably closer to 28% of Americans.

Yeah thats right, I didnt know the hard numbers thats on me.

But you need to really overthink you government system over there, because the guy 30% of you want destroys alot more than the trust in the US system.

More than half of us have had enough. I'm not sure what's wrong about the others...

Because Trump is winning in the polls handily and has robust support from his base.

Biden is the opposite: he's losing in the polls, his disapproval numbers are the highest in the history of modern polling, and many of the people that will vote for him will do it only because they have to.

Trump supporters have to as well but for different reasons. If they don't drink the Kool-aid and play along socially they are ostracized. Which doesn't help anyone.

As a non American, Trump winning the election makes sesne. But in general, WTF is going on in America?!

capitalism just progressing to it's natural end stage.

Also...

First Past The post voting artificially limits the number of political parties to two. This allows the legacy political parties to run incredibly weak candidates since there is no competition in the electoral system.

With a more representative voting system (much like Ranked Choice voting) people would be free to vote for the person that best represents them, while still counting their vote if that candidate doesn't win.

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As a non American, trump winning will destabilise things in Europe way more than it will in America. The cunt's said Russia can do what they want with NATO member states. It means all aid to Ukraine stops and Ukraine will lose because Putin has an endless supply of meat to take it if Ukraine can't find the artillery shells. Russia will turn Ukraine's now highly trained, well equipped, and battle hardened army against Poland. Major bloodbath! After enough primary school children have died on the frontline the Baltic states will be next, followed by Scandinavia.

Sure Europe will eventually stop them but at a massive cost. And that's only if China doesn't openly arm Russia or send troops. The only way to avoid it is if the US and Europe remain tight.

That's being an alarmist to the point of absurdity.

Trump can say a lot of things. He can say he'll leave NATO. He can say he'll stop sending aid to Ukraine.

He can say whatever he wants, and I have no doubt the idiot actually believes it. After all, he said he was going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. He Said he was going to deport all DACA child. Hell, if I remember correctly, he said during the last campaign that he was going to leave NATO as well unless they fucking paid him, like it's some sort of protection racket.

Despite the recent SC ruling, and despite four years of failing to actually do anything he said he could do, he still believes he's a god-king. But with the exception of a presidential decree, which can be blocked by congress; nothing he's fucking babbling about can just "be done" on his word. It has to pass Congress and the Senate, which will, despite the eventual winner of the presidency, remain close enough in seats for cooler heads to stop his bullshit. There are enough republicans, even in a Trump administration, that would never dream of fucking up that much.

The point is, Trump is a fucking idiot. And while the supreme court has made him effectively immune to criminal prosecution, his ability to do almost anything without eventually bumping up against the actual adults in the room is still pretty limited.

If he actually had the power to do what he says he can, he would have done it in his first term. But even in a party of of racists and MAGA, there are enough adults to keep him distracted with colouring books.

The point is, Trump is a fucking idiot. And while the supreme court has made him effectively immune to criminal prosecution, his ability to do almost anything without eventually bumping up against the actual adults in the room is still pretty limited.

The problem is that Trump (if elected) gets to appoint a bunch of yes-man lackeys to all the cabinet positions, meaning that there are fewer of those adults in the room to stop him from doing stupid shit.

The heritage Foundation has been putting the right people in the right places for a long fucking time. Trump is only a foot in the door. The fundamentalists and far right will probably whack him themselves once he's elected. They are using his stupidity and cult following to gain power. If you don't resist, it's going to be a handmade's tale type dystopia for you and a return to pan continental war for us.

I don't envy your position tbh.

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People that want to stay free must learn to vote for the most viable candidate, whether they like them or not. Republicans know the left actually value proper behaviour and consistency from their candidates, so the left is vulnerable to this kind of attack. The republicans don't care what you say about their candidate, they just want to win. But especially they want you to lose.

Conservatives need other people to lose, because if other people lose it feels like they are winning.

It's why they call they cops on people for no reason. It's why gender neutral bathrooms are bad. It's why contraception is bad. It's why healthcare and other social safety nets are bad.

If other people don't lose, they don't win. Zero sum thinking means they need you to lose.

They sound like losers

The people calling for Biden to drop out are completely different from the people who want Trump to stay in the race.

Democrats want Biden to drop out because they don't believe he can beat Trump.

Republicans want Trump to stay on the ticket because they're pretty sure he'll crush Biden .

Democrats want Biden to drop out because they don't believe he can beat Trump.

To this point: for those who think that, do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?

While I'm not thrilled with his chances, I will say that if he wasn't to be the nominee, that decision needed to happen in 2021. At this point, I do believe that statistically, he's got better odds than anyone else, so regardless of his debate or mental state, he's our guy.

To this point: for those who think that, do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?

Literally anyone born after 1975.

Look, 45% of people are going to vote for the name on the D line no matter who it is. 45% of people are going to vote for the name on the R line no matter what. That last 10% is who you want to win over. And like, they're tired of both of them. But Biden is the dude in office right now, so they're gonna vote for the other one.

All Biden has to do is say "after some reflection, you're right. I cannot serve at my best capacity. I'm going to step aside for the good of party and country," and then they nominate literally anyone under 50. Hardcore democrats are going to vote for whoever is on that line, and middle America is going to see that and be like "that's the honorable thing to do. I respect that. And I may not know who this new person is, but they're not Trump" so democrats still have that tired platform without any of the baggage. They would cruise to retaining the presidency.

do they think anyone else realistically could, at this point, other than Biden?

The answer to that is clearly, "Yes." The calls for him to bow out are coming from all corners; various mainstream media outlets, donor groups, alternative media, pundits, and even sitting Democratic politicians.

Anyone still planning on voting Biden at this point can only justify it on the basis he's not Trump, and wouldn't decide not to vote without Biden on the ticket

A quality he shares with every other American with the exception of Trump himself.

The democrats only stand to gain votes by swapping him out. 75% of democrats would prefer a different candidate.

Because we don't expect him to have any shame or decency.

Trump controls a cult, that's why.

Cult leaders can get their followers to do anything and the followers will forgive the leader for anything, including felonies. They will dismiss any criticism of the leader as lies or made up to hurt the leader politically. No matter how true the criticism might be.

At the end of the day, it's very much like the relationship between religious worshippers and their god.

even in the bible god is a straight up asshole and people still blindly worship

Firstly, foreign nations interfering with our country wants chaos. Trump is chaos but they will latch onto anything to sew discord and craziness.

Second the Republicans don't care they are voting for Trump period or against democrats period there is little to change their mind. Conservatives don't have to do something to win they have to hold every one and anything back.

Thirdly, the left is critical thinkers who are trying for better so there is always dissent or people criticizing/arguing the best way to do a thing causing lots of bad will. Doesn't help we don't have a left party and have a middle party always trying to court to the right.

Lastly, there is tons of could been better should have done better. Democrats and DnC sucks. They have a bunch of old fogeys holding onto power and their donors want people who won't change things to much. Doesn't help the corpos where use to having zero lights shined on them under Trump and they can do whatever. Where as even if most of it was toothless Biden actually did a little bit and said a few things that upset the corps

Ok everybody. New plan. Everybody vote for me. Here's my platform. Fuck EVERYBODY!!! Equally. No racism. No discrimination. You ALL get a middle finger to the face. In fact, fuck the donkey, fuck the elephant, my party emblem is a big middle finger. The fucking party. Don't you want to join the fucking party? I know you want to join the fucking party. You know how hitler had the hitler salute? Well we have giving people the finger. Thats our partys gesture. In fact, do two middle fingers! Double up, mother fuckers!

And my campaign promise? I will fuck up this country at a slower rate than these two old geezers. Actually, first day in office, my first official act as president will be to give both of them the finger.

My second act will be bacon. Just.....just bacon.

You've got my vote. I'm not American but you can rule over my country and give our band of useless cretins the finger too.

Man, I need me a US passport just to vote for you

that's not how anything works.

Ah, no voting for them, then

The only people I see calling for Biden to drop out are the media news companies.

It’s basically a fake controversy. They benefit massively from stirring the pot so people tune in to “see what’s going to happen”.

Reality is if Biden were going to drop out, he’d already have done it.

Depends on what social circles and social media circles you roll in. I know of a LOT of people who wish he wasn’t the nominee.

It takes years to plan a presidential run and the incumbent has a huge advantage. It's infeasible to change the candidate now and would 100% split an already very polarized party. It's a fake media controversy and the media companies are the ones causing people to feel that way by editing footage to make Biden look bad, attacking Biden's stutter or slip up instead of Trump's lies and gaslighting. The media is controlled by the rich and complicit in treason, but the rich never get their dues and the right is never held accountable.

They should run a very popular vice president, and announce him immediately. Biden is obviously not going to step down, but someone competent needs to be on the campaign.

This, Biden isn't going to drop out and most of the people calling for him to resign benefit either directly from him no longer being on the ballot, or indirectly benefit in the chaos and doubt of opportunist in the democratic party jumping on what they perceive as an opportunity to enhance their standing and power within the party and political establishment as a whole.

If one singular data point (a bad debate performance) is enough to make you or anyone else think a person should immediately step aside, you're exactly the kind of person these attacks and campaigns are directed at: someone easy to sway and scatter. I don't particularly like Biden or most of what he's done in the last 2 years specifically, but I also know that splitting off from him or encouraging a third candidate that will split the vote is just going to hand GOP the reigns for the next 4 years and given how they've spent the last 8 stomping on rights and democracy, it'll probably be another 20 years before they lose power short of another revolution or civil war. So weighing those two scenarios, yeah I'm just going to vote Biden, sleepy or dark brandon, doesn't matter since he can always resign after the election and let Kamala take up POTUS.

Never thought about it like that

Don’t forget Kim Jong Un. “Beautiful” letters.

Lots of people have a problem with Trump. All the more reason to want someone opposing him who can beat him.

Who do you have in mind?

I don't understand how this is supposed to be like some 'gotcha' question. Biden wasn't a strong candidate in 2016 and lost to Hillary, who then lost to Trump. He wasn't a strong candidate in 2020 which is why he barely squeaked by Trump to victory. He's an even worse candidate in 2024 which is why Trump again has a shot at the presidency.

None of this is new information and the party has has nearly a decade to find a good candidate, yet they keep foisting some of the most unlikable people upon us election afrer election after election. It almost seems as if they're doing it on purpose at this point. It's not our fault that they've waited until the 11th hour to listen to the complaints and even acknowledge what we've all been saying for years. If Biden loses again, maybe stop looking at leftists to blame and start looking at the people in charge of this private organization deciding the fate of us all.

That's a long way to go to avoid a question, several paragraphs and you can't even come up with one name.

Fine: Bernie. Happy now that you've got a name?

Fucking Internet lefties and demanding someone have all the answers or they're not worth listening to

Fuck Putin, and the tankie pussies who need a daddy to make them feel safe.

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8 more...

there is 333 milion people in the us. roughly 1/4 of them is of sufficient age and pro-democracy. one of them has to be able to put together coherent sentence.

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If he had any decency or moral, Trump should have stepped down himself.

Also, kindly remind everyone with a vagina and everyone who cares about someone with one: This year's presidential election is about abortion access. Roe vs Wade was repealed by extremist MAGA judges appointed by Trump.

If he had any decency or moral,

Trump

Lolwut

everyone is kind of giving snarky answers with a couple helpful tidbits in between but the true answer is:

trump is polling well. current polling indicates that trump is doing good enough at what is expected of him, which at the moment is simply running a campaign that will beat the democratic candidate.

people only really start calling for dropping out en masse when polls start to significantly falter because it’s an indication that the candidate is no longer running a competitive campaign.

Yeah but the polls didn't significantly falter, they're still statistically tied with only a margin of error shift since the debate.

This isn't an organic moment of partisan reconsideration. It's being pushed by the same folks who were already loudly and obnoxiously telling us about how they don't like Joe and threatening to vote protest or skip voting because, shock of shocks, nobody primaried the sitting president and risk sowing division right before an election where the other candidate is Hitler's inbred pet mango.

People are pretty divided and strongly set in their beliefs. Most of the things that come out of Trumps mouth mean I’ll vote for a shrubbery if it is the only other choice

… but I do also think Biden has done a pretty good job and would like to see more of the same, with a hop to the left

I'm decently confident that if we don't see it with Biden we'll see it with the candidates who come for 28. I'm crossing my fingers for Whitmer right now, plenty of progressive bonafides, runs a solidly blue government in a swing state quite well, and the Redcaps literally plotted to kidnap her and do a lot of other nasty shit I won't write out to her so we're hardly gonna have to worry about her not taking the threat seriously.

No one is asking him to drop out because they aren't afraid he's going to lose. Simple as that.

Everyone with their panties in a twist right now could have done something about it during the primaries, but apparently protest votes about Israeli atrocities were the priority.

I did vote against him in the primary so I reserve the right to have my panties in a twist. My protest vote was for another candidate.

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One party has principles, arguably too much in some sense.

The other either just voting for them because they love tradition so much they need to vote someone conservative, just want less taxes, or outright just evil and want to see the suffering of their fellow human beings if those happen to belong to the wrong group.

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Horse Race reporting, it's literally all the mainstream has to say people are concerned about because his performance actually holds up when you check the stats.

But if you dare say that people are literally being manipulated into thinking he's worse than he is you're "not understanding the median voter's struggles"

We need to force the sale of news corporations to the journalists so this profit maxxing bothsidesifying shit can go the way of the dodo.

People do, you call them Biden supporters and dismiss them because “they wouldn’t vote for Trump anyway”

Or you say Trump is the reincarnation of Jesus and it’s all lies created by the devil

Consolidation of US media. Billionaires will burn the world down rather than cede an inch, and it's their narratives that get amplified.

Because we know he won’t. It’s pointless. They both need to just fucking die.

Because people have a slight sliver of hope that Biden might listen to them.

Because, realistically, he won't listen.

Biden won't either, because he's already proved he can win this race and you don't retire a winning horse.

I keep seeing this sentiment, and it boggles me. Last season's winning horse just debuted this season with a huge limp, and the response from some people has been "it's fine, stop panicking, we'll win if we just keep betting on it."

Also, his debates last time weren't... ideal, but he at least remained awake during them!? Anyway, I'm with you: I understand someone wanting him to win, but how on earth can this be considered a done deal already?

There is a time and a place to stop all questions and get to work. But we aren't there yet!? And being ready to change one's mind based on the most current set of facts is literally the hallmark of the Age of Enlightenment, as opposed to e.g. the divine right of rulers to continue for as long as they wish to?

at least remained awake during them

It's fine if you want to criticize Biden, but can we stop with the Sleepy Joe bullshit? It's nothing but Trump's political slander.

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Trump has 88 really good reasons not to drop out. Without control of the justice system he’s going to be in jail for the rest of his life and republicans have shackled themselves to him.

I don’t know if you’ve been not paying attention but even if he’s not elected, he will never see the inside of a jail cell. Trump is untouchable. I’m not sure why, most people speculate he has dirt on some very powerful people - really serious dirt on many really powerful people. That’s only speculation, but if you recall during his first campaign he bragged about how much he was loved and worshiped he said he could walk out of Trump tower onto Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone dead in broad daylight and he would never face any consequences whatsoever. And he was right.

No, Putin has dirt on everyone in the Republican leadership. They hacked the RNC's servers, too. Lindsey Graham changing his opinion 180 after an afternoon playing golf with Trump should tell you everything you need to know. Graham was literally crying on Fox defending Trump. We all know he's gay, but Putin has to something absolutely terrible on him. Like having a chocolate bar in his mouth.

Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.

this isn't 2020. it's 2024, and a different race. Trump has had 4 years to retcon (or rather double down?) on his reputation. (whatever, he's had four years to shore up his support.). Further, in 2020... the war in ukraine hadn't started yet, neither had the Israeli genocide in gaza; the Pandemic was still on-going (and trump was fucking up left right and center on that.)

the point being, the circumstances are different and Biden has a lot of baggage he's carrying- especially lately with Gaza. As they say in stocks: Past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

It's going to be a battle, and I'm not sure Biden can win.

That said, Trump belongs in jail. (or the grave. I make exceptions for certain things. like being a rapist pedophile traitor.)

In a sane world, that should be enough for a cardboard cut out of Yogi Bear to win. I used to think that Princess Amidala being 14 and the planetary head of state was hilariously unrealistic, yet here we are hoping to elect an asshole that supports genocide because the other guy is a cartoon villain that would happily genocide his own citizens because they didn't let him do his pedophile-rape thing. It's the kind of plot Palpatine would appreciate.

you don't retire a winning horse

REMEMBER: You need that horse for working right AFTER the race.

You and I need that. Does the DNC?

This isn't 2020 though, at this point in 2020 Biden had a 8 point lead on Trump and even then he only won a narrow victory in the electoral college with Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin, now he's down by 2 points overall and down even worse in those swing states. Then he was a relative unknown and people were willing to give him a shot against the known evil of trump . Now people have gotten to see him and they do not like what they see, his approval rating is worse then Trump's was at the depths of the pandemic.

This isn’t 2020 though,

Tell your superiors at the troll farm they need to change the script. Too many of you using the same exact phrasing is giving you away, tovarish.

Where is this reasoning that "Biden should withdraw" is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia. Putin knows even less then us on whether Biden withdrawing would be good or bad for trump.

It's not even like this is a fringe idea any more, members of the house are calling for him to step down and even pelosi thinks it's a legitimate question, are they Russian trolls? We need to have a serious discussion on this and not dismiss the other side as a psyop like alex Jones, otherwise we're gonna let inertia carry us to a loss like in 2016.

Where is this reasoning that “Biden should withdraw” is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia.

They don't blame everything bad on Russia. They blame everything they don't like on Russia. It's why they scream that anyone who says Biden should stop supporting genocide is a Russian.

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because 50% of americans are facists?

Correction, 50% of VOTING Americans are fascist. It's the only thing that keeps me going.

Because they don't have anybody else who can pull in his vote share.

I call for him to drop out......of a boeing.

Might be more effective to make him stay in it, all the way down

We should try both... For science.

you mean to start the experiment by cutting him in half? i am in 😆

In the name of scientific accuracy, absolutely. Can't go having inconclusive results, can we? Now I know one might be inclined to split him top and bottom but I posit we do left and right.

Now I know one might be inclined to split him top and bottom but I posit we do left and right.

so how about a compromise and splitting him in 8 parts along all three axes?

More opportunity for experimentation, I like it!

I have access to a cleaning/cutting/welding laser. I would like to do the vertical cut.... that too is for science....

It's not science unless you're using fancy equipment during the practical experiment!

Have you seen the cost of those things? (Or what they do to rust?)

The cost, no. What they do to rust, yes. What they do to flesh... that's part of the experiment.

his jet is a boeing.

Maybe they have a door plug by his desk?

If you want an honest answer, I'd recommend finding some place that has a decent population of openly right-wing people so you can get an answer from them directly, rather than left-wingers snarking and saying they're all brainwashed fanatics that would never dissent from the party's candidate.

The short answer is that they don't believe any of the things OP said, or they can overlook them because they believe worse things about Biden/the democrats.

I think you misunderstand who is asking Biden to drop out and why.

Dems are interested in who is the DNC candidate and Republicans are interested in the GOP candidate.

Republicans as a whole are OK with Trump. He's not incredibly popular, but he has some achievements under his belt and has a relatively small but very loyal core group of voters. The average Republican believes that a) Trump has good chances of winning election and b) will likely move forward conservative policy objectives.

Therefore, why would they want him to drop out?

If we look on the other side at Biden. A growing group of people believe that he is not 100% mentally there because of his age. Because of this, not only does he a) have lower chances of winning the election but also b) is he really competent enough to be president? Sure, there's a sort of shadow administration behind him but people still put value in having a strong and mentally quick head of state.

Beyond that, there's also a small group of progressive voters who are unhappy with Biden's policies. He simply isn't a very effective leader and is one of the most unpopular presidents in US history. He's even more unpopular than Trump, who was also a deeply unpopular president.

So, people want Biden to resign because they believe other people would not only a better chance of winning election, but would be more effective leaders in terms of advancing DNC policy objectives.

Except your arguments against Biden easily apply, and more so, against trump. He is absolutely not all there, a mere three years younger, and certainly not competent (and absolutely corrupt on top of that.)

The simple answer is- people expect Republicans to be degenerates. They don't expect that of Democrats. It's nothing but a shitty double standard we've let dictate politics for decades.

You have to look at it from the GOP perspective. Trump is the most popular candidate, he managed to accomplish big ticket items in his administration, and he is more "mentally there" than Biden.

Just look at debate. Trump spoke quickly and confidently. Biden mumbles and forgets what he's talking about, stands there with mouth open staring, etc.

There's a reason in 2020 debates, polls showed most people thought Biden won the 2 debates. But in the last one, overwhelming % of people thought Trump won debates- even democratic voters.

Trump did not speak confidently.

He ignored the questions, he lied with abandon, and the moderators did nothing about it. Biden couldn't keep up with the flood of lies to refute it all.

Im quite sure Biden is capable of lying just as quickly and confidently but he is a better person than that. He actually came to debate, not spit in our faces by lying right to us.

Speaking confidence has nothing to do with lying or telling the truth. Go back 20 years ago and look at a Biden speech and compare it to today. Hell, go back 4 years ago to the last Biden v Trump debates.

Biden isn't half the capable public speaker he was before. He mumbles and gets lost. He sounds unsure.

Trump doesn't care if what he's saying truth or not, he just says things with the conviction of a conman.

Looking at what trump did and remembering his "nuclear" speech people need to gtfo over it and vote Biden.

Jfc

We can discuss what people should do all day. I'm talking about what people will do. Biden is losing this election. People are talking more about whether he is even capable of the job and nothing about the good things he can do for the country. His own party is rebelling against him, with Dems from swing states calling for his resignation.

Biden's toast, and the DNC with him. It's unfortunate but it is what it is.

Why would he drop out? His racist and nonsensical ramblings are what Republicans/conservatives/the wealthy and his base want. It's leftist and some liberals who don't want that. Which is why there are calls for Biden to drop out. That's not complicated. I barely even understand how this is a question

I'd be thrilled if they both dropped out.

Because suggesting your enemy do things is meaningless.

The people calling for Biden to drop out are supporters of his party, the democrats, who recognize that he’s unfit and incapable of winning. They want him to be replaced by someone else to increase their party’s chances of victory.

No one is calling for trump to drop out because he’s looking more fit in comparison to Biden and he’s projected to win. No one would call for a candidate to drop out when they’re in the lead if they support that candidates party.

Criminal allegations, true or false, don’t enter into it because America has a two tiered justice system where the wealthy and powerful are less beholden to the law than the rest of us and because presidency requires the violation of myriad international laws, norms and human rights.

The job title might as well be War Criminal in Chief and none of the allegations leveled at trump are disqualifying.

I don't actually think that statement is true. Polls are notoriously wrong all the time, and the members of the Democratic Party requesting he drop out are doing so because they're afraid to say otherwise. I'll give you an example. Members of the Republican party notably were very critical of Trump until they realised that to continue in the political sphere they were going to have to get along to get along when it became clear he was the front runner.

The members of the DNC who are asking for Biden to step down are doing so even though they know that no other possible candidate is likely to win. They did the same with Bernie Sanders in 2016. They aren't worried that he'll lose the popular vote. They're worried he'll lose Electoral College votes because some of them are apparently still on the fence. If they wanted to put forth another candidate they would have already. Who have they put forward to put on the ticket? No one. Because they don't have anyone else either. For them it's a no win situation and they're scared so they're trying to cover their own asses.

I actually agree with your last sentence. it's a no-win situation for the democrats and there's a seemingly growing contingent that thinks the best loss they can take is one where a new candidate or set of candidates are introduced to the electorate.

polls are wrong all the time, you're right. what does it look like if against all odds, biden wins? the man has shown himself to be incapable of cognitive function. should voters fall back on trusting his cabinet and handlers "our competent administrators, their unelected sycophants" style?

hes facing significant opposition from the other branches of government and even at the end of his life when faced with a supreme court ruling that gives him the legal go ahead to enact his administrations policies he won't do it.

that's not looking like a great second term. if he lives through it then they're the do-nothing democrats who can't accomplish their agenda and abandon their constituents, if he dies then they've got kamala who would be very funny but is incredibly disliked.

the democrats are between a rock and a hard place right now because they ran on trump being a dictatorial fascist who will crown himself god-king and now that hes going to win they're at fault for cynically using the threat of fascism to get votes instead of building the kind of base to oppose fascism that one and a quarter centuries of history would dictate or being the boy who cried wolf if it turns out there's a peaceful transition of power in 2028.

basically there's no way forward with their current messaging and platform because when trump wins and institutes american fascism (it's already here, but i'm typing from the perspective of democratic strategists) they're naive buffons who pissed away their time and resources trying to get people to vote for an inadequate candidate on a shuffling the deck chairs platform and when trump doesn't send the brownshirts into the streets and has a largely uneventful second term theyre the people who pissed away their time and resources on a candidate and platform which aren't up to the challenges we face because of orange man bad.

they're done for and the best possible outcome is an uneventful trump presidency with a smooth handover complete with "restored faith in our electoral process". in that case it's best to go ahead and start getting their benchwarmers out on the field to find out whos up to the task in 2026 and 2028.

One thing I never understand is that all I ever hear about from Republicans is how old Biden is. While being true and not that I necessarily like Biden no one ever talks about how Trump is only three years younger. Biden has to answer for his age all the time but it's not a thing Trump typically deals with

Different standards. Conservatives did this since the fall of kings, and doing this while want to reinstate them.

If the opponent messes up, they're incompetent. If they themselves, it's either someone else's problem, just part of being human, or try to cover it up with the media until everyone forgets it.

Because if Biden can't finish his term, a black woman will be president.

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I think you'll find that basically everyone on the left would like for Trump to step down. But it's a waste of breath to actually voice it.

I would gladly have Trump drop out. It won't happen. Trump is running to save his own ass. For my part, I have grave doubts about Biden's ability to win that have been building for a few months but came sharply into focus during the first minute of that debate.

....is this a joke?

Because conservatives are cowards. It's that simple. They are afraid of those who may challenge them.

It's like he's a real life Zaphod Beeblebrox, only far, far worse.

Zaphod had way more rizz

Republicans have no shame

Are you only counting insular social media bubbles like this one and/or media like CNN which takes that to be the default position and therefore doesn't repeat it ad nauseum, or do you mean you've been scoping out trumpsocial where you'd be more likely to see conservatives talking amongst themselves and so you'd be more likely to see that type of infighting? Cause maybe that's why.

Because

None of the above legally prevent him from running.
Republican voters will still vote for him en masse.

It's that simple.

The problem the Republican party seems to have right now is that it's caught in a bizarre cult of personality, where the only viable candidate is Donald Trump. Eight years have been dedicated to a man that likely won't be around for another eight due to his age and lifestyle. Donald Trump can't drop out, because to many he IS the Republican Party.

Put succinctly, if Trump were to drop out, could you realistically see him backing another candidate, without making it about himself?

In some ways it's petrifying that Trump could win. In another, it's hilarious to think that IF Trump were to lose, how would the Republicans recover in four years? Trump will never not make it about himself, and I bet he'll put himself on the ballot for as long as he can, further eroding the right.

Because we know he won't. He knows he's unwelcome by the majority of the people. That just makes his worshippers praise him even more.

What do you expect...Democrats ask him to step down because he's a convicted felon? He's gonna listen?

Republicans to have him step down...why? Because he said lies(that they believe) and sounded good saying them?

Biden we at least know is receptive. And he's got an amazing career behind him. Losing the presidency, as an incumbent, to Trump (the incumbent he just barely defeated four years ago when he exuded much more confidence when he spoke against him) would be a terrible way to end it.

There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story.

Trump’s the perfect figurehead for MAGA, why should he drop out?

I'm honestly pretty damn mad these people got perfect representation and we get stuck with neolibs who think "yeah yeah 40 years of the same hasn't helped, but this time it will work!"

It's because Democrats are not "we." Both parties serve corporate interests.

Because being a fringe lunatic insurrectionist fascist is forgivable. Left or right, everyone either assumes Trump is so bad or so good that he is beyond criticism.

Same as it ever was. No one, left or right, expects the Republicans to change or get better.

Because he'd never do it anyway.

Because everyone in America who has fuck you money (everyone, even that one rich person you like who says shit about Trump) benefit if Trump gets elected.

Every news network owner, every sports star selling sneakers, every rock star who flys a private jet, every CEO that benefits from slave labor, every single parasite in the country. They all win huge if he gets elected.

Republicans are dismantling every roadblock to them having even more money.

People talk a big game but in the end we're all greedy selfish short sighted fucks.

Not that the Democrats don't fuck people over.. but they'll at least buy us dinner and maybe use some lube.