This is yet another nail in the coffin of physical media. Or, in other words games you actually own instead of long term lease.
It's not like physical media makes any difference anyway these days.
Actual disk often gets just a glorified installer, and even if it includes the entire game you're likely to have to activate it online anyway.
The "own your games" ship has sailed long ago, unless you only buy no-DRM and your own backups.
unless you only buy no-DRM and your own backups
Going to have to plug GOG here as these are both things they offer. I try to buy games there instead of Steam, purely for this reason.
Going to have to plug GOG here as these are both things they offer.
Note that this is a major selling point for GOG and available on most of their library, but unlike their early days, not everything is DRM-free.
Piracy is the only way, clearly capitalism doesn’t give and inch.
Nor a funk
The difference is the price of buying discs vs. buying from a digital store that has no competitors.
I've bought almost exclusively second-hand discs for my PS5, because they're like half the price for the exact same content.
Sadly it'll probably be just a matter of time before those will be phased out as well, one way or another.
Steam keys can be found dramatically cheaper than all of that.
They can, difference is a vast majority of people don't want to buy/build a PC, or deal with a PC setup in general, they just want to press one button to make it work and sit on the couch. So the easy option for them is buying a console, it's plug and play, while a PC requires quite some setup.
So we need Steam Box. Steam Deck just works 99% of the time. I can only complain about the desktop mode being buggy and non-steam games being a pain in the ass to install.
Then we return to the topic of not owning your games with Steam. Try installing non Steam games via the Heroic launcher and use Bazzite OS instead
Try getting non-playstation games on your Playstation. What about games from older Playstation? Can't get most of those on there. And let's not pretend you "own" Playstation games anymore when so many require online and patches anyways.
Steam is more value for money and improved services and support. I used to be a die hard Playstation fan but it got old being treated like shit.
You can get generally up to PS3 games working on PC and you'd be owning those games too. Value for money is good and all but owning vs leasing is clear cut and I'll take owning my stuff everytime, as that is valuable to me.
If you wait for a good sale, digital is sometimes cheap or cheaper. I just go with whatever is cheapest at any given moment.
I remember thinking it was bs when half life 2 required a steam account and now everyone loves it.
For better or worse, the landscape has shifted since then. I can't imagine people love Steam for being Steam, but rather for being the most consumer-friendly platform on PC.
Refunds? No questions asked if it's within 2 weeks and 2 hours of playtime.
User reviews and ratings? Yes, and even comments on those reviews.
Community content? Steam discussions, guides, art, etc. Even mods with the workshop.
Bribes development studios for exclusivity deals? Nope! Devs can release games wherever the fuck they want.
Platform support? PC. Not just Windows, but going out of their way to make Linux a first class citizen. They even support Crapple despite its miniscule market share among PC gamers.
You're right. But, all this good stuff is to obfuscate the central fact that you don't own the property you bought.
Sure, Valve has claimed that should they go away, as their last act, they'll provide the ability for users to own their purchases, but who actually believes them?
For $700 they could at least throw in a 4k Blu-ray player.
Then again, I ponied up extra for the disc version of the original ps5 for that exact reason, only to find out the media player software is a giant piece of garbage that was clearly given no effort. So I can't say I'm too surprised.
Sony doesn't put much effort into most things.
I'm glad some companies are going full media and the younger Gen is buying physical media. It's creating a counter culture that smart companies are using to their advantage.
It does if you rent
I've been using gamefly for a while, I can't rent digital only games
Sure you can. wink wink 🏴☠️
Thing is, that’s not how it works on PlayStation. On PS5 you can download and play games without ever connecting to wifi. The whole glorified installer is mostly an Xbox thing ever since the XB1. I’d know since I own both and usually get discs to play my games.
Is it possible for modern games to fit on a disk?
I think it would be an interesting change if brand new games had a hard limit on file size so they can fit on and play from an actual disk.
Absolutely. It just depends a lot on the game of course. A blueray disk can contain over 100 GB. But a game could be split over several disks too. It was rather common to do that with CDs on the original PlayStation.
A lot of Xbox 360 games came on multiple discs
The issue isn't the game engine, it's the texture files.
If you don't care what it looks like, you cut 80-90% or more from any modern game subbing low quality textures.
Newer games rarely have the entire game on the disc. Usually there's mandatory patches that must be downloaded to play it. I've seen games where there's only a few hundred MB on the disc while the whole game is maybe 15 or 20 GB.
This means you don't really own the game, since if Sony (or Microsoft or whoever) take down the downloads for the game, you won't actually be able to play it any more.
Essentially your choice is between a physical license key (the disc) plus a download of the game, or a digital license key plus a download of the game.
And now, the physical licence path is even less accessible.
The thing with the physical licence key is it's transferrable even if the actual data is stored elsewhere. It's a thin veneer, I mean, Sony could gate access to this data to the first account/machine that activated it. So even this advantage is taken away.
Some enterprise software used to (or maybe still do) use USB dongles for licensing... I'm honestly wondering if games are going to move that way too. Given the fact that practically every game needs a launch day patch, why even have a DVD/Blu-Ray if instead you could just have smaller, more reliable USB dongles? I suspect that in the next generation or two of game consoles, we'll no longer see discs at all.
Death by a thousand cuts
IDK. Between the price tag and lack of the disc drive IDK how many people are gonna buy this thing. It's probably just for people who HAVE to have the highest graphics, to keep them from getting a gaming PC until the PS6 is ready for them.
I'm not sure. If that is their strategy they're dancing on a razor. I mean, the market is pretty slim. Basically, you can get a pretty sweet gaming PC for the price they're offering. And if you project the amount of games you'll get and estimate the price differential with prices of the same games on a PC you might be able to uprate the specs a few times. I would say that a PS5 with a reasonable amount of games is probably worth a similar amount to a $1k PC.
I think the steam deck is genuinely the only console worth buying these days.
I REALLY want Sony to release a handheld that can run PS1, PS2 and PS3 games 🥺
That’s the Steam Deck.
Wait can it run ps3 emulators?
Double wait are ps3 emulators working now? I remember pscx2 or whatever being buggy as shit.
TLDR I'm ancient in internet years
RPCS3 can run most PS3 games but Steam Deck may fall short in some of them. Recommended specs include 6 core CPU but Deck has 4.
Going by core count alone is a pretty shitty metric for CPU performance. The 4 core APU in the steam deck will outperform an 8 core bulldozer cpu by any metric
Except for power consumption and heat generation ;-) This is where Bulldozers were hot shit!
It's also worth noting that even Sony can't be bothered to properly emulate the PS3, which has resulted in many PS3-era games being remade into either native PC versions, or PS4/5 titles.
While it's true that there are still some PS3-exclusive games that aren't available in other formats, many of them are, so most people can get pretty far without needing PS3 emulation.
I only bring that up for anyone that may think they need PS3 emulation, but maybe haven't been made aware of newer remakes or native PC ports of the games they're actually looking for.
I'm gonna blow your mind by telling you there are already working PS4 and Xbox One emulators, although both only support a small number of games so far
PS3 and Xbox 360 can be emulated very well by a modern PC, the majority of games work without glitches
PS4 is actually easier to emulate than PS3, because former has regular x86 architecture, but latter has a very weird CELL/PowerPC architecture CPU.
PS3 is the trickiest. They had that weird Cell architecture which is more difficult to emulate than simply "less-powerful x86" emulation required for more-recent consoles.
I’ve had good experiences emulating PS2 on my Steam Deck. PS3 I haven’t gotten anything to run well enough that I’d call it enjoyable. Some don’t run at all
It would be so funny if the EU decided Sony was a gatekeeper on the consoles without disc drives and forced them to allow 3rd party app store on them.
Hey, a guy can dream.
What the EU actually needs to do is to spearhead and help find everyone a way to actually “own” digital things. I think I’d be fine with not having a disk drive if I could buy my game, not be reliant on servers to download it in the future, trade my games with friends, and choose to sell it when I felt like it.
We need to find a way to get back (most of) the benefits of physical media without actually having to go back to it.
"If a game needs a server and the official servers shut down, the protocols have to be released to the public". I think it would be a good starting point.
Imo, the term “buy” for all goods should pass some sort of litmus test. Eg:
does the product being sold have the same properties as a brick?
can the product be resold privately?
can the product be lent to another user temporarily?
would the product still perform its function when the manufacturer stops supporting it?
would the product still perform its function if the manufacturer ceased to exist.
if the product does not pass all these tests, the customer is not buying. Consider using terms such as ‘rent’ or ‘lease’ or ‘subscription’
One big reason people still play on consoles to this day is because they own a physical copy of their games and can play on their consoles even offline.
Sometimes
I couldn’t play Baldur’s Gate 3, a single-player game, when my internet went out. That pissed me right off.
Yeah that's what I meant by sometimes
Its becoming a trend where game companies are now making single player games require a internet connection just to play. I saw some games on Steam where single player games come with anti-cheat, like wtf.
Becoming a trend? This has been a regular frustration in gaming since the PS3 generation.
If you pirated it you could have played it offline though. Paying customers get a worse experience than pirates
Could you give more details? On which platform did this happen?
Xbox series X. I couldn’t sign in to my profile, so the game wouldn’t load because I bought it electronically and it’s tied to my user. I sent them a little love letter for that.
Generally this works just fine if the console you are using is set to your "home console". That's what the home console toggle is for. I could see this being an issue if you have multiple consoles in your house, or you are game sharing with another profile.
I didn’t know this was a thing… I’ll look into that setting, thanks.
People who buy consoles do it for the "press a button to game".
Not necessarily because they don't understand pc's, but because they don't want the faff.
For me, console gaming was for when my desktop rig was doing a video export or 3d render. It was when I wanted to sit on the couch and not be too invested in what I was playing with.
true and if you really want that console experience install smth like bazzite,holoiso,nobara home cinema edition (non immutable),etc and dualboot windows for app compatibility you can use playnite on windows to make it look like a ps5
That sounds like a lot of hassle for someone who doesn’t want hassle.
At $700 you could build a pretty decent PC that would last a lot longer (3060 12gb, Ryzen 5 5600, 16gb of DDR4), and build a steam library that you'll have 20 years from now. I've had the same monitor, keyboard and mouse for an easy 10; controllers don't last that long. They're reaching a point where there's less and less of an actual argument for owning one.
build a steam library that you'll have 20 years from now
How do you know that Steam will be around in 20 years?
Use GOG instead. The DRM-free game installers will outlive Steam :)
How do you know that Steam will be around in 20 years?
Use GOG instead, since the DRM-free game installers will outlive Steam :)
How do you know Windows will keep compatibility in 20 years? Valve money partially goes into Proton/WINE development and an evolution of that will absolutely be around in 20 years, just WINE was around 20 years ago already. CD Project doesn't put any GOG/Cyberpunk money into breaking the Windows monopoly. (Also plenty of titles on Steam come without DRM because DRM is optional.)
How do you know Windows will keep compatibility in 20 years?
I didn't mention Windows anywhere in my comment? GOG has Linux versions of games too, for games with Linux ports.
plenty of titles on Steam come without DRM because DRM is optional
That's true - for the DRM-free Steam games, you can just keep a separate backup copy of the game files. They usually run fine without Steam installed.
Barely any game on GOG has a Linux port and CD Project enforces the Windows monopoly. GOG Galaxy only available for Windows, their own games only available for Windows, none of their massive resources put into improving WINE.
I was more successful running witcher 2 with the windows installer on the steam deck than with the linux one.
My GOG games run great on wine, it just takes a bit more work to install them. Wine has better support for early windows games than windows does now.
CD Project doesn't do anything to improve WINE, so spending money there is wasted.
How many people actually download and store those installers though? I think GOG is awesome too but practically if you exclusively shop there you have the same problem unless you have a massive NAS on hand
I've still got my original installers and CD keys for Unreal Tournament 99 GOTY, Need for Speed Underground, Trackmania United, and a bunch of others, and even some DOS games, so there's at least some of us that keep the installers. I have a few of them on USB hard drives I've collected over the last 25 years or so... I really need to move them onto my NAS. :)
I used to buy directly from the publisher though. Some of them still have working download links, for example Ubisoft/Nadeo still have a working download link for Trackmania United even though it's nearly 20 years old now.
How many people actually download and store those installers though?
... The hundreds of GOG-based torrents disagree with this sentiment. You don't need EVERY person to store it. Just a handful of seedboxes can feed the world sort of thing...
Edit: But this does risk someone being malicious with the torrent of course...
It's kinda rich to plug Steam, where you also don't own your games.
Well for Steam at least the library is independent of the hardware
It comes pretty close to feature parity in terms of ownership. My kids can play my steam library on their own computers, I can play it on any machine I own, I don't have to pay them any kind of rental fee, and they maintain my software for me.
Only thing I can't do is what...sell my games to someone else? I don't do that anyways.
Replace the 3060 with an equally-priced AMD card and you'll actually get something decent for your money. Nvidia is horrible at these "lower" price points.
And something that can run PS3, PS2 and PS1 games!
I'm sorely disappointed that none of that fancy AI-powered Sony upscaling can be put to use to any of those old games.
I’ve had the same monitor, keyboard and mouse for an easy 10;
I guess it depends on frequency of use, but I've never had a mouse last ten years. I wear through the switch on the mouse button in less than that, starts to act unreliably.
Unfortunately, physical media for gaming died when always-online DRM was normalized. It doesn't matter if you have a game on a disc when you have to phone home every time to use it. The corporation may still block your access.
One more step in ensuring no one owns anything. Lease or rent are your options.
That’s fine, I’ll just get better at sailing.
That's why your favorite letter is R.
Lease and rent, or piracy.
Reminder that you can put in whatever you want in a PC. And that you can get a decent gaming machine for 1k (700+PS plus).
CD Drive? No problem. DVD? Of course. Another SSD? Get some random 50$ thing and throw it in there. Floppy? Harvest some old PC and voila.
The real point is that you can upgrade it incrementally, you don't have to throw it away, and upgrading will allow you to play all your old games from generation to generation without having to rebuy them for the latest Gen.
Depends how old you get. After 30 years some games just don't work like they used to!
Thankfully we do have modern solutions for old fashioned problems now.
Even if you give a shit about upgrading, binding yourself to sony or whatever company.
Within limits though. E.g. If your mainboard only supports old CPUs that is a huge limiting factor and we saw MS messing with older CPUs just not being supported at all by Win 11.
Now i made the switch to Linux myself too and i am very happy, but for people who want to start somewhere, maybe starting with their own linux gaming PC is a bit much for the start.
I think that's overkill, but a Steam Deck is on par with a PS5, but portable, and for a cheap dock and a ps5 controller you can play it like a console.
Linux has made such leaps though, have a container with lutris and vulkan and it can handle most basic gaming that doesn't deal with modern AAA titles.
I got a Steam Deck because it's a little computer. I can put my own OS on it, that's awesome. The marketing page was talking about DIY repairs and offering spare parts, too.
I mean i am fully in support of PC gaming and in particular Linux gaming. It is just not as easy to keep upgrading PCs component by component. Eventually there is limits, mostly from the mainboards limits.
Meh, gaming pc of theseus, you replace the mobo less often than a console Gen, more if you want.
I was using the same board and CPU I started with back in 2016 up until last year. My bottleneck wasnt even the CPU it was the fucken RAM.
While this is true, consoles still manage to have a way more convenient experience. Its the only reason why they exist (today)
I think that's mainly a relic from the past. I didn't have compability or driver issues for a long time.
Once the PC is set up, it's as comfortable as a console. Setting the PC up to console standards is reduced to installing steam.
Looks like you never played on a computer on a TV screen. The experience is plaged by pad connection problems (Bluetooth), windows popups, random no full screen issues, sound suddenly on the wrong channel, microphone not working, mouse cursor in the middle of the screen (often reset to the middle after launching the game, even when you are playing with a pad) and so on. You still need a keyboard and a mouse near your couch and there is always something. For sure iam still not paying the markup for a console, but i get why there is a big market.
What are you on about? I use my PC on my TV all the times and I don't have a single issue you describe. I just have it connected with Hdmi. The TV even turns on and off automatic if function activate.
I've definitely had some of those issues. I won't count an old issue where my GPU needed a special connection to attach audio to its DVI output (rare oddity). Some others:
Most computers would need to swap default audio device between whatever you use at a desk, and the TV registered as an HDMI audio device.
Bluetooth connections to arbitrary controllers have gotten better, but they had often needed manual enablement each time through mouse-based menus or a number of firmware updates to work with Windows/SteamOS.
My Steam Deck, even in its current iteration, takes some time to recognize the connected TV and swap resolution.
The mouse cursor issue can come up if you had to do any mouse-based option swapping, like that thing with audio devices.
I've definitely gotten it working and had a blast, but the number of button presses to get to starting the game can sometimes be hard to predict. Even when I had a computer dedicated to the TV (a long time ago when SteamOS was fledgling) it was pretty unreliable about having all the right updates and not needing a mouse.
The only problem with optical drives for PC is that most modern case no longer support them.
A surprising amount of Fractal Design's cases do.
I've checked it, and yes. Also some of the lower-end of Be Quiet!.
They make pull out cup holders to put in the CD rom rive slot.
There are so many goofy fun things a computer can have in it.
Having a pull out cup holder seems insane to me, my personal rule is no drinks near my pc at all.
That said, I have a drawer in place of my cd drive that holds all my small peripherals (thumb drives, usb to sd card adapter, stuff like that) and it's great.
I was just trying to say something absurd that I've seen being sold for PCs lol
I work in IT, the rule for me, closed lid drinks around PCs, no food or drinks in the server room. Unless you are me...the system/network engineer
LGR did a great video on crazy expansion slot PC accessories. One of them was a pull out ashtray with a push plug lighter like cars used to have. https://youtu.be/_ErL39wqO-c?si=zWyVR6m_LqE6SBE0
In what universe do you live? Ps plus is $80, not $300
Nintendo is going to continue to eat everybody's lunch with decisions like this one
Sony's problems are twofold:
They are charging an absurd amount of money for a game console
They are selling a game console that has practically no first party games for it.
If they had plenty of the latter, they could weather this. But there are still games releasing for the PS4, and they have had 1, maybe 2 PS5 releases that would qualify as first party this year (that don't bubble down to PC).
Jesus christ, Nintendo is gonna win it all aren't they?
Is it better to buy a ps4?
PS4 is superior in every way but power. Small, cheap and high availability, huge game library. PS4 will stay relevant this entire. gen
Or a PS5. The comparisons between PS5 and PS5 Pro are nearly impossible to notice.
Physical media or full rejection. Fuck you business school zombies squeezing blood from rocks
Pointless if the discs still need to talk to the server before you can use them.
Fuck that noise too.
But it's only 39.99 a month (conditions apply)!?!!
All good points in the comments, but something I haven't seen a anyone talk about yet:
WHY is a DISK DRIVE $80??? All it does is read a disk. Any encryption on the disk would be decrypted on the console. External disk drives are like $20. If you specially brand them maybe you could go up to $40.
But $80? That's like a Gameboy Advance. That's a miyoo mini plus. That's an entire console in itself.
That's actually below market value for an external 4K UHD drive.
You're right! My point no longer stands. Removing the disk drive would then save about $100 from the console, which makes sense to remove if you're cutting costs and most players play digital anyways.
~also if you're pushing digital games.
Props for accepting a counterargument on the internet graciously. Not something we see often.
Digital doesn't have a secondary market which is the real reason. No money is made when you give away, sell, or share your physical games.
Blu-Ray never really took off as a mass-market format so the drives are relatively obscure and expensive without the benefits of manufacturing at scale.
But $80? That’s like a Gameboy Advance. That’s a miyoo mini plus. That’s an entire console in itself.
Bruh, you can even get 2 or 3 DS lites for that price
Ah, I should have been more specific. Back in the day I got my GBA new for $75 retail. (With inflation that's probably a lot more now.)
Used DS lites are great, especially if you can fix the broken hinges and screens.
DS Lites imo have always been the best on the retro console value curve
They don't want you to own* physical media anymore.
799€ here, 920€ with a disc drive. That is stupidly insane for a console. We're almost breaking the 1000€ barrier for an "upgrade", not even the new generation.
I'd bet my money Sony is just testing the grounds to see if they can set PS6 price in a few years over the 1k barrier.
Ahhhh, so my ps5 is the most superior PlayStation still, good to know.
It's not, but it's the most reasonable purchase.
I think Sony never wanted a physical media PS5 console. The design made it seem like an after thought. Like a growth on the side of sleek lines.
they weren't completely wrong now. on thier own financials, its mentioned that only 30% of game sales are physical. physical buyers are now the minority.
I still jerk off manually.
I'm one of those people. I just can't be arsed to get up off the couch and put a game in. After work and kids I'm beat and just want to pick something and start playing.
basically market has always shown convenience often trumps ownership, music streaming, video streaming, games now. ownership is the vocal minority
I've also just learned over the years that I just don't go back to stuff all that much. If I finish a game, that's it I'm done. If I really want to go back in 20 years there's probably a PC port since there are very few console exclusives or just emulation.
Wow, just buy or build a comparable PC at that price point
remember when everyone was saying consoles where cheaper then pc and has more features
I think this piece of hardware is cheaper than a comparable PC, but longer term you'll pay quite a bit more for games.
true tho
Nah I'm good with my 2017 jailbroken switch with free games lol
What games are even worth it? Sony has like 5 'must play" exclusive games on their console
Putting the 5 in PS5
Sony has exactly one must play game you can’t play on a computer and I still own a ps4 for that one game, and believe me when emulation gets slightly better I will have a new Linux computer shaped suspiciously like a ps4
I have one of the ones that can be jailbroken. One day I'll do it
Like it or not the majority of game purchases are digital these days. It's a sad development for sure. I buy all my console games as physical discs myself.
Why can't you just plug in a random-ass USB 4KBR-disc drive?
Or sell one that we can use to bring in games from PS1, 2, 3, 4 and 5? And state that the drive will be able to be used going forward, into the next gen and beyond.
They've got a rich gaming history at this point and they don't care because they'd rather sell you an $80 digital copy that they can take away at any time and you can't trade it in or really own it. And it's the same with PC games as well, courtesy of Valve and then everyone else.
If the future is digital, we need laws that allow us to transfer ownership of digital content. It would have to be secure, obviously. Not just "steal somebody's console and trade all their games in".
On the idea of random drives: Many of them might not be able to read the encryption on Playstation discs. I could be wrong, but I think the way they operate involves more than just software encryption. Sony is best off making their own. Hence why pirates burn special copies.
On reading prior generations: I think they'd be capable of reading those if they wanted, but running old Playstation games is more a matter of correct CPU architecture. Most of us have played old games on the new consoles, but often there's a bit of manual porting/emulation logic going on to get it working - so the package delivered from PSN isn't exactly would come from an old PS2 disc.
IIRC the Xbox 360 used to do a thing where you'd put your old OG Xbox disc in, and it would download any extra code it needed to run. Most of these older games would be under a few MB of actual code.
Pretty sure the PS5 is powerful enough to run PS1 and PS2 emulated, and probably have a good crack at running PS3 games as well, although a lot of the good PS3 games got a remaster for the PS4 gen anyway.
I think the only thing stopping really us doing it now is the PS5 drive can't actually read CDs. Plus I think they want to test each game before release and sell us them on PSPlus tiers.
Yup, the Xbox does that; but it’s at least good to acknowledge that was not an insignificant effort on their part. They had a lot of people slowly putting out compatibility packages for old Xbox games based on popularity.
I’m guessing Sony doesn’t feel like doing that when they can also provide that hardware via more expensive cloud systems.
I'm pretty sure that would run you about the same as the external component, so there's no benefit to going with a third-party accessory
Yeah, looking at the prices, it's about right for what it is.
Suppose the upshot of using a generic component is you could also attach it to a PC.
Looks like the long term goal of them is to stop selling discs altogether. I couldn't even get BG3 on a disc when it came out, and I think Alan Wake 2 was the same (only physical copy I can see is the deluxe version with both AW1&2 on it).
I see the mythical digital savings never made it to us, to the surprise of absolutely fucking nobody. I wouldn't mind if they actually put games on a discounted price after a year or so, but you can still see several year old games at the full original retail price.
How much space does it come out of the box? I bought my PS5 a year ago.
It came with 667GB of space. Some games take up 100gb.
And now you want to make it digital only??? Uhhhh, fuck that. You better be giving me like 1000 terabytes.
The pro upped the storage to 2TB, but I really feel like when the PS5 launched we were at the point where they should have shipped with 4TB drives.
I haven't built a new computer in awhile, but 4tb ssd would have costed more than the console when it launched would it have not? Unless you are saying they should have shipped with a hybrid SSD/HDD setup. Not sure if read/write speeds would hold up to the frame rates needed for their games now.
You can get a 4TB NVME SSD for 200 USD these days. And of course Sony wouldn't pay retail price.
2TB, what Sony went for, does appear to have (just barely) the lowest price per GB right now though. $0.48/GB vs $0.52/GB for a cheap 4TB NVME SSD.
Honestly I'm surprised they didn't also release a 4TB version. But I imagine they may release it later so they can get a second wave of PS5 Pro headlines later on.
I agree with the sentiment, but the games don't play off the disc. The discs contain the game data that is installed to the SSD. You're using the same amount of storage whether you buy games physically or digitally. I buy mine physically because I like actually owning the game I paid $70 for.
You’re using the same amount of storage whether you buy games physically or digitally.
The difference being that you can load the content back onto the SSD at will, and regardless of server statuses... A lot of people have bandwidth caps or live in places with shit internet speeds.
Edit: I should clarify that I know some publishers only use the disc as a license of sorts with only a few MB of data... I'm wholly against this concept. Think publishers that don't ship a working game on the disc should be barred from selling physical copies at all as it's just landfill.
Seriously though. Just buy a shelf and spend all of your money on anime figurines if you want to collect something that can still contribute micro plastics to the oceans.
no disk drive and the fucking stand is sold separately! too expensive!
Sony went the apple way. Next stand will be brushed aluminium for mere $999...
I have no incentive to play the latest and greatest software and hardware, but that’s just me here.
So what makes it pro?
Same as the PS4 Pro: it's significantly more powerful, has more storage, can actually do RT well, etc.
The price seems crazy to me though.
E: it's occured to me that the PS5 Pro pricing is likely a (comparatively small) release that they can test the waters for a $700 PS6.
If they release the PS6 for $700, it could backfire and compromise that entire generation, giving MS a foothold (we saw how MS ran away with the 360 when Sony botched the PS3 launch, and subsequently how MS lost all that momentum when they botched the XBone launch, and Sony ran away with the PS4).
If they test the waters with a PS5 Pro it doesn't matter all that much if they have to capitulate and drop the price.
Don't show Sony that the market is willing to pay $700. The PS5 Pro being accepted at $700 will guarantee a base PS6 at about the same.
"Significantly"
Going by the comparison Sony felt large enough to brag about there's hardly a noticeable difference
An uplift of ~45% in overall performance, ray tracing going from awful to decent, hardware-accelerated upscaling (like DLSS) isn't "hardly noticeable" unless you don't have eyes.
And more storage and WiFi 7 may not be as flashy (hah, SSD storage, flash-y), but they're nonetheless improvements.
But, you know, if that's not good enough for you, don't get one. Nobody's forcing you. I know I have no desire for one, (especially not for $700!) I've been console-free since my 360 had a red ring of death.
I think the trick is that the normal PS5 is already $450 (no disc drive) or $500 (with disc drive).
So do the features on the Pro version provide an extra $200 to $330 worth of value?
So far, as a PS5 owner, I'm not seeing it.
Only if you don't have one already. Some of the more intense games graphically have shit upscaling so they shimmer. If higher internal resolution can fix this while running at good FPS, it might be worth it for some people
Remember that you still can't build a gaming PC for $700 that performs similarly.
Also explains why they raised the price on the normal PS5 - "Well, the Pro isn't THAT much more..."
From what i heard, the ps5 doesn't really have a problem with performance, unlike the ps 4.
Pro revisions are the time to go crazy with outrageous prices since they're not needed to be able to play any of the games. But if they try that crap with a base model, it's PC Master Race time for me.
Not having a disc drive.
I see lots of people in this thread saying to go to the PC or the Steam Deck, but are we ignoring that both systems do not have a disc drive too?
I mean, aside from the disgusting price of the PS5 Pro not having a disc drive is the biggest offender (and the reason why I am not even considering buying it, despite being a Sony user since the 1st unit).
I mean, technically you can install a disc drive onto your computer if you want.
TIL you can still buy disc games for PC.
seems like not that long ago i would've thought that the idea of a PC without any disc drive was insane. i had to help a neighbor kid the other week when forced bitlocker bricked his gaming PC, sure enough it didn't have any disc drive!
I was very confused by all this (also I don't use consoles unless you want to consider the Deck as one) until it dawned on me that what people are apparently now calling "disk drives" are apparently "optical disk drives/readers".
Aren't games dematerialised on consoles nowadays? Or is it strictly a PC thing?
So I can't play half the games I have, and the other half doesn't need the extra console power. Yay. WOrtH iT.
Wow, was waiting on the pro to drop, but now I giess I'll just pass the ps5 generstion altogether. This sucks ass.
I’m genuinely curious to how those things are going to sell. My knee jerk reaction is ‘oh hell no’ but there’s a lotta console players out there that want the power but just don’t want to get into PC gaming. Of course there seems to be a lot of people still playing on last gen consoles too so I have no idea where that’s going.
The problem is the reason those people don't get into PC gaming is because they don't wanna spend $700 on a gaming machine.
Most people that I’ve spoken to don’t mention the price. They usually talk about how they just don’t know how to get games in the first place and start talking about settings and updates that they always hear about.
That being said, I still don’t know like I said lol. I’m just curious and want to see how it goes.
I mean the same people bought PS5s at launch from scalpers.
Nah from what I’ve heard is because they perceive as being very complex, more so than it actually is.
I can say that for myself it's not really just the price. I don't have space to put a computer. With a console I can hook it to the TV and tuck it up under it. When I wanna play I can grab just the controller and sit on the couch. I like simplicity. With a pc I need a mouse, keyboard, desk, a chair, speakers, and a monitor. I know it can be hooked up to a tv however the tower still stands as an issue. The smaller compact towers that can be tucked have limited capabilities that rest below consoles.
On top of all that PCs are regularly getting releases years after a games release. PC gaming is only superior if the things going to be entirely utilized by the person and for some reason a lot of PC gamers think the average person will be doing so when that's simply not the case.
That's not necessarily true. I want my gaming to just work, and that's not the case in Windows. It's becoming less the case with console gaming, but I can still be confident that when I buy a game for my PlayStation it'll actually boot, I won't need to use third-party software for controller support, and I won't need to tinker with drivers.
That said, I already have a PS5. The TV I game on is still 1080p, so I don't understand what $700 would get me over my current hardware.
I can still be confident that when I buy a game for my PlayStation it'll actually boot, I won't need to use third-party software for controller support, and I won't need to tinker with drivers.
Sounds like your last pc gaming experience was in the 90s.
Yeah, steam straight up tells you if games have support for controllers, and they are all plug-and-play...
They talked about doing it this way at launch, which they should have. The drive is available as a peripheral, at the cost difference (actually cheaper) of the digital vs disc console. It simplifies manufacturing and distribution, which helps get more consoles on shelves. Now when it doesn't matter as much, they implement it. Go figure.
As far as killing off physical media, yes it pushes further that way, but honestly the game industry has been not favorable to retail stores for some time. This is the least of the offenses.
"least of the offenses"
I don't think you're zoomed out far enough. The constraint of physical media will be a deathstroke for consumers.
I don't disagree. In fact I agree fully.
But when the industry promotes early access games (digital only) and digital day 1 with physical to follow 3 or 6 months later, it is pushing consumers to digital. So its irrelevant if they do or do not have an optical drive on the console.
Yeah, but the disc drive is the first thing to break, and replacement parts don't sell more consoles.
Now that the Console is overpriced to the extreme, modular parts are an added luxury.
Sony has been on a roll with the boneheaded products nobody wants.
Yup, not even slightly surprising, I do believe we have saw the last disk in a game console bit of a pity they are doing it in a refresh but you could tell from the bolted on disk drive that the only reason they added one at all is they would have lost alot of people who don’t have internet. The modern world will soon be completely inaccessible without internet.
I think they've lost touch with their user base, but I also think they know that there's some people that are just going to buy the console because they don't have a better option available.
Like don't get me wrong yes it's now the same price as a low end gaming computer and it doesn't have upgrade capability, and doesn't have a physical media drive, but you can put it right where your TV is, so no seperate setup so it takes up less space (PC games on a tv instead of a monitor looks weird and can be a pain to fix). Plus it's easier to use/more user friendly and everything is in one place.
I personally will not be upgrading past my current, as I find this generation to be super lack luster and not cost effective, but I can see why some might, I disagree with it but I see it.
Hey Sony, I love you but you trolling?
You can get a gaming laptop for that stick bazzite on it or use steam big picture on launch you've got a platform that does +60fps 4k HDR with 40 years worth of games.
Consoles are getting very close to being irrelevant unless you like sports titles.
+60fps 2160p from a $700 gaming laptop is extremely unlikely. Unless you only play old games or really light stuff.
Only the lowest tier gaming laptops are at that price point these days. Laptops are more expensive than they were 10 years ago.
*1440p upscaled from 720p
I think the PS5 doesn't come with a monitor so, why a laptop?
It also doesn't run off battery power, hardly apples to apples.
I do even more appropriate if you count DLSS like the pro is, "play older games" basically what Sony has atm
Even with DLSS or FSR, you'd have to be at a decent resolution for upscaling to 4K not to look bad.
"play older games" basically what Sony has atm
I don't really get what you mean. Almost all new games that come out will have a PS5 version? Am I being dumb here and misinterpreting you?
E: I checked BestBuy (the only US PC retailer I know of, I'm not from the US), and the best GPU in a $700 laptop is a RTX 4050 laptop edition, power-limited to 45W. Looking at benchmarks, this often struggles to reach 60FPS in GTA V at high settings - a game that released 11 years ago! And remember that's 1080P!
Not only that, the SSD in it is only 500GB. So just 3-6 modern games once you factor in the Windows install.
You're looking at a significant price if you want to use a laptop as a 4K console. Even with DLSS, which will render the game at 66% of the display resolution, you'd still need a capable 1440p gaming laptop. And 1440p is ~80% more pixels to push than 1080p.
The PS5 pro is using similar scaling tech, but both my Bazztie “consoles” can play some games native 4k, and using DLSS/FSR with a 2k signal like the pro will be doing obviously gains more titles.
The older games are referring to the PS5 pro line up, it's all older games that most pc builds around this price can compete with.
List taken from Polygon:
Gran Turismo 7 (supports ray traced reflections between cars in gameplay at 4K 60fps, and a dedicated 8K mode, according to CNET)
Horizon Forbidden West (as well as an overall “detail boost,” there are “improvements to lighting and visual effects” and to “hair and the skin in cinematics,” according to Mark Cerny)
Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 (high resolutions and detail at a distance, including the trees and procedural cars)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (distant details will be more clear, such as during the opening parade scene)
The Last of Us Part 2 Remastered (offers greater visual detail at 60 frames per second, including sharper details at a distance)
Demon’s Souls (no specific enhancements outlined)
I used laptops as an example for someone who does not want to build, but my living room one is a mid AM4 from 2019 build that I put an AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT in. So about £800 build the cost of the upper end PS5 pro and not far off the base. My Nitro 5 was £700.
My comment was more about the irrelevancy of consoles once they start getting past the £500 mark, used to be that you'd have a good advantage over a mid-tier PC for about 2 years. Now it's basically on par for the same money short of wanting to play exclusives, which Sony hasn't really been pumping out this gen. Where the PC library is huge, add in Emulation and it's even bigger.
You can't scale $700 laptop performance up to 4K 60fps without it being an absolute mess.
You mention the tech being similar, that is true, but upscaling from a, say, 1700p signal to a 4K one is an entirely different beast to 1080p > 4K.
Those "old" games would utterly destroy a $700 gaming laptop. You'd be very lucky indeed to get 60FPS even at low 1080p.
My comment was more about the irrelevancy of consoles once they start getting past the £500 mark, used to be that you'd have a good advantage over a mid-tier PC for about 2 years.
Consoles being vastly better price/perf at the start of the generation and then getting overtaken by PC towards the end has always been the case. Every generation at the start there's alarmism about consoles killing PC gaming, then mid-to-late gen people act as if console gaming is dead. Neither end up happening.
That said, you'd still struggle to build a $700 PC that outperforms a PS5 Pro. You could get reasonably close maybe if you're clever with the budget, though.
Where the PC library is huge, add in Emulation and it's even bigger.
I'm not arguing against PC. I think PC is the better and better value platform. I play on PC exclusively (well my kids have a switch, and I play with them, I guess, but just for me personally it's all PC or Steam Deck).
I'm just saying there is zero chance of you getting a 4K gaming laptop for $700. $1250+ seems a lot more likely.
Uhhh. Maybe I'm a little TOO far from the console crowd but I'm going to say this anyways.
Who tf cares? I'm a PC gamer and I've been without a disk drive since 2009.
I will happily admit it is definitely a different situation. For one, this would essentially give Sony a monopoly on games. Which would mean that they would never lower prices and gamers have no one to go to other than them. You know what I'm talking about, all the same shit that Nintendo has been doing for years.
I guess that I'm just curious how many people dislike this.
cant function as a dvd player as well as console if there isnt a disc drive
some people just have games on disc and without a disc drive they either have to buy the disc drive seperate or rebuy their game digitally
If I'm not mistaken it's actually a Blu-ray player not just a dvd player. Mind you this is from memory not necessarily a fact, lol
It's def a blu-ray player. In fact it's not just that, it's a 4k blu-ray player.
Actually the disk drives makes the console attractive, as you can snag cheap second hand games
Oh yeah, no doubt. One of the whole benefits of PC gaming is being able to snag games from other retailers. Honestly disk drive consoles have the advantage of being able to snag games from other users.
Another big problem imo is also that you effectively lose ownership of your games. Inevitably, servers would be shut down and you wouldn't be able to download the games that you own. And that's if things go well. Some games could always just go away earlier as we've seen on other platforms. However, if you own the disk, then that's that, you can play the game forever.
On steam, the same problem could technically happen, but I trust Steam significantly more. It's very much in their best interest to keep growing their library of games and not stop supporting them. I still have games from 10+ years ago on it and I expect to keep them 10+ years from now.
700 is insane. I guess I’ll wait for the PC release of Wolverine instead of playing it on the base PS5 then. Sony really shit the bed this cycle.
They got off to a great start with the PS5, but as their lead grew over their only real direct competitor, they became a good example of the problems with monopolies all over again.
This is straight up back to PS3 launch all over again, as if they learned nothing.
Right on the tail end of a horribly mismanaged PSVR 2 launch.
We still barely have any current gen only games, and a $700 price point is insane for such a small library to actually make use of it.
In the UK it works out as 913 USD.
Sounds like a lot more PC converts in the making.
Price Has No Limits™
PayStation ∆◯╳☐
Completely different strategy: the PS4 generation has produced a lot of games, sony could have stopped trying to compete with the high end PC market and gone in the Nintendo direction. Gives us new ways to access their library, give developers new tools to play with, release a 2nd mid-gen refresh and release a ps4 slim that is equivalent to the ps4 pro, encourage games for new ps4-slim and ps4 pro+. What do you think?
It was pretty much a given that this would happen, since there were already options with and without disc drives.
And obviously sooner or later gaming will probably move to an entirely online service like streaming.
It's just a matter of time until the internet and worldwide coverage is ready for it. I always imagined that in a distant future we'd basically only buy a controller, that connects to an app that'll let you stream. And every game will be in a subscription service like a Netflix.
Nah, they won't do streaming cuz it's too expensive.
This is yet another nail in the coffin of physical media. Or, in other words games you actually own instead of long term lease.
It's not like physical media makes any difference anyway these days.
Actual disk often gets just a glorified installer, and even if it includes the entire game you're likely to have to activate it online anyway.
The "own your games" ship has sailed long ago, unless you only buy no-DRM and your own backups.
Going to have to plug GOG here as these are both things they offer. I try to buy games there instead of Steam, purely for this reason.
Note that this is a major selling point for GOG and available on most of their library, but unlike their early days, not everything is DRM-free.
Piracy is the only way, clearly capitalism doesn’t give and inch.
Nor a funk
The difference is the price of buying discs vs. buying from a digital store that has no competitors.
I've bought almost exclusively second-hand discs for my PS5, because they're like half the price for the exact same content.
Sadly it'll probably be just a matter of time before those will be phased out as well, one way or another.
Steam keys can be found dramatically cheaper than all of that.
They can, difference is a vast majority of people don't want to buy/build a PC, or deal with a PC setup in general, they just want to press one button to make it work and sit on the couch. So the easy option for them is buying a console, it's plug and play, while a PC requires quite some setup.
So we need Steam Box. Steam Deck just works 99% of the time. I can only complain about the desktop mode being buggy and non-steam games being a pain in the ass to install.
Then we return to the topic of not owning your games with Steam. Try installing non Steam games via the Heroic launcher and use Bazzite OS instead
Try getting non-playstation games on your Playstation. What about games from older Playstation? Can't get most of those on there. And let's not pretend you "own" Playstation games anymore when so many require online and patches anyways.
Steam is more value for money and improved services and support. I used to be a die hard Playstation fan but it got old being treated like shit.
You can get generally up to PS3 games working on PC and you'd be owning those games too. Value for money is good and all but owning vs leasing is clear cut and I'll take owning my stuff everytime, as that is valuable to me.
If you wait for a good sale, digital is sometimes cheap or cheaper. I just go with whatever is cheapest at any given moment.
I remember thinking it was bs when half life 2 required a steam account and now everyone loves it.
For better or worse, the landscape has shifted since then. I can't imagine people love Steam for being Steam, but rather for being the most consumer-friendly platform on PC.
Refunds? No questions asked if it's within 2 weeks and 2 hours of playtime.
User reviews and ratings? Yes, and even comments on those reviews.
Community content? Steam discussions, guides, art, etc. Even mods with the workshop.
Bribes development studios for exclusivity deals? Nope! Devs can release games wherever the fuck they want.
Platform support? PC. Not just Windows, but going out of their way to make Linux a first class citizen. They even support Crapple despite its miniscule market share among PC gamers.
You're right. But, all this good stuff is to obfuscate the central fact that you don't own the property you bought. Sure, Valve has claimed that should they go away, as their last act, they'll provide the ability for users to own their purchases, but who actually believes them?
For $700 they could at least throw in a 4k Blu-ray player.
Then again, I ponied up extra for the disc version of the original ps5 for that exact reason, only to find out the media player software is a giant piece of garbage that was clearly given no effort. So I can't say I'm too surprised.
Sony doesn't put much effort into most things.
I'm glad some companies are going full media and the younger Gen is buying physical media. It's creating a counter culture that smart companies are using to their advantage.
It does if you rent
I've been using gamefly for a while, I can't rent digital only games
Sure you can. wink wink 🏴☠️
Thing is, that’s not how it works on PlayStation. On PS5 you can download and play games without ever connecting to wifi. The whole glorified installer is mostly an Xbox thing ever since the XB1. I’d know since I own both and usually get discs to play my games.
Is it possible for modern games to fit on a disk?
I think it would be an interesting change if brand new games had a hard limit on file size so they can fit on and play from an actual disk.
Absolutely. It just depends a lot on the game of course. A blueray disk can contain over 100 GB. But a game could be split over several disks too. It was rather common to do that with CDs on the original PlayStation.
A lot of Xbox 360 games came on multiple discs
The issue isn't the game engine, it's the texture files.
If you don't care what it looks like, you cut 80-90% or more from any modern game subbing low quality textures.
or you straight up pirate it.
Newer games rarely have the entire game on the disc. Usually there's mandatory patches that must be downloaded to play it. I've seen games where there's only a few hundred MB on the disc while the whole game is maybe 15 or 20 GB.
This means you don't really own the game, since if Sony (or Microsoft or whoever) take down the downloads for the game, you won't actually be able to play it any more.
Essentially your choice is between a physical license key (the disc) plus a download of the game, or a digital license key plus a download of the game.
And now, the physical licence path is even less accessible. The thing with the physical licence key is it's transferrable even if the actual data is stored elsewhere. It's a thin veneer, I mean, Sony could gate access to this data to the first account/machine that activated it. So even this advantage is taken away.
Some enterprise software used to (or maybe still do) use USB dongles for licensing... I'm honestly wondering if games are going to move that way too. Given the fact that practically every game needs a launch day patch, why even have a DVD/Blu-Ray if instead you could just have smaller, more reliable USB dongles? I suspect that in the next generation or two of game consoles, we'll no longer see discs at all.
Death by a thousand cuts
IDK. Between the price tag and lack of the disc drive IDK how many people are gonna buy this thing. It's probably just for people who HAVE to have the highest graphics, to keep them from getting a gaming PC until the PS6 is ready for them.
I'm not sure. If that is their strategy they're dancing on a razor. I mean, the market is pretty slim. Basically, you can get a pretty sweet gaming PC for the price they're offering. And if you project the amount of games you'll get and estimate the price differential with prices of the same games on a PC you might be able to uprate the specs a few times. I would say that a PS5 with a reasonable amount of games is probably worth a similar amount to a $1k PC.
More anti-consumer stuff from corporate bigwigs
I think the steam deck is genuinely the only console worth buying these days.
I REALLY want Sony to release a handheld that can run PS1, PS2 and PS3 games 🥺
That’s the Steam Deck.
Wait can it run ps3 emulators?
Double wait are ps3 emulators working now? I remember pscx2 or whatever being buggy as shit.
TLDR I'm ancient in internet years
RPCS3 can run most PS3 games but Steam Deck may fall short in some of them. Recommended specs include 6 core CPU but Deck has 4.
Going by core count alone is a pretty shitty metric for CPU performance. The 4 core APU in the steam deck will outperform an 8 core bulldozer cpu by any metric
Except for power consumption and heat generation ;-) This is where Bulldozers were hot shit!
It's also worth noting that even Sony can't be bothered to properly emulate the PS3, which has resulted in many PS3-era games being remade into either native PC versions, or PS4/5 titles.
While it's true that there are still some PS3-exclusive games that aren't available in other formats, many of them are, so most people can get pretty far without needing PS3 emulation.
I only bring that up for anyone that may think they need PS3 emulation, but maybe haven't been made aware of newer remakes or native PC ports of the games they're actually looking for.
I'm gonna blow your mind by telling you there are already working PS4 and Xbox One emulators, although both only support a small number of games so far
PS3 and Xbox 360 can be emulated very well by a modern PC, the majority of games work without glitches
PS4 is actually easier to emulate than PS3, because former has regular x86 architecture, but latter has a very weird CELL/PowerPC architecture CPU.
PS3 is the trickiest. They had that weird Cell architecture which is more difficult to emulate than simply "less-powerful x86" emulation required for more-recent consoles.
I’ve had good experiences emulating PS2 on my Steam Deck. PS3 I haven’t gotten anything to run well enough that I’d call it enjoyable. Some don’t run at all
So...steamdeck lol
Vita can Run 99% of PS1 games "natively" and has a bunch of PS2 ports (some through PSP). Not PS3 though.
I wouldn't trust Sony to not fuck that up somehow like everything they do.
It would be so funny if the EU decided Sony was a gatekeeper on the consoles without disc drives and forced them to allow 3rd party app store on them.
Hey, a guy can dream.
What the EU actually needs to do is to spearhead and help find everyone a way to actually “own” digital things. I think I’d be fine with not having a disk drive if I could buy my game, not be reliant on servers to download it in the future, trade my games with friends, and choose to sell it when I felt like it.
We need to find a way to get back (most of) the benefits of physical media without actually having to go back to it.
"If a game needs a server and the official servers shut down, the protocols have to be released to the public". I think it would be a good starting point.
Imo, the term “buy” for all goods should pass some sort of litmus test. Eg:
One big reason people still play on consoles to this day is because they own a physical copy of their games and can play on their consoles even offline.
Sometimes
I couldn’t play Baldur’s Gate 3, a single-player game, when my internet went out. That pissed me right off.
Yeah that's what I meant by sometimes
Its becoming a trend where game companies are now making single player games require a internet connection just to play. I saw some games on Steam where single player games come with anti-cheat, like wtf.
Becoming a trend? This has been a regular frustration in gaming since the PS3 generation.
If you pirated it you could have played it offline though. Paying customers get a worse experience than pirates
Could you give more details? On which platform did this happen?
Xbox series X. I couldn’t sign in to my profile, so the game wouldn’t load because I bought it electronically and it’s tied to my user. I sent them a little love letter for that.
Generally this works just fine if the console you are using is set to your "home console". That's what the home console toggle is for. I could see this being an issue if you have multiple consoles in your house, or you are game sharing with another profile.
I didn’t know this was a thing… I’ll look into that setting, thanks.
Couch co-op is also a big thing that I want but fewer and fewer games offer it.
for that value just get a pc honestly not a locked down freebsd based console
No joke. A decent gaming pc can be built around that price and be used for so much more. Even cheaper if you hunt for used parts.
People who buy consoles do it for the "press a button to game".
Not necessarily because they don't understand pc's, but because they don't want the faff.
For me, console gaming was for when my desktop rig was doing a video export or 3d render. It was when I wanted to sit on the couch and not be too invested in what I was playing with.
true and if you really want that console experience install smth like bazzite,holoiso,nobara home cinema edition (non immutable),etc and dualboot windows for app compatibility you can use playnite on windows to make it look like a ps5
That sounds like a lot of hassle for someone who doesn’t want hassle.
At $700 you could build a pretty decent PC that would last a lot longer (3060 12gb, Ryzen 5 5600, 16gb of DDR4), and build a steam library that you'll have 20 years from now. I've had the same monitor, keyboard and mouse for an easy 10; controllers don't last that long. They're reaching a point where there's less and less of an actual argument for owning one.
How do you know that Steam will be around in 20 years?
Use GOG instead. The DRM-free game installers will outlive Steam :)
How do you know Windows will keep compatibility in 20 years? Valve money partially goes into Proton/WINE development and an evolution of that will absolutely be around in 20 years, just WINE was around 20 years ago already. CD Project doesn't put any GOG/Cyberpunk money into breaking the Windows monopoly. (Also plenty of titles on Steam come without DRM because DRM is optional.)
I didn't mention Windows anywhere in my comment? GOG has Linux versions of games too, for games with Linux ports.
That's true - for the DRM-free Steam games, you can just keep a separate backup copy of the game files. They usually run fine without Steam installed.
Barely any game on GOG has a Linux port and CD Project enforces the Windows monopoly. GOG Galaxy only available for Windows, their own games only available for Windows, none of their massive resources put into improving WINE.
I was more successful running witcher 2 with the windows installer on the steam deck than with the linux one.
My GOG games run great on wine, it just takes a bit more work to install them. Wine has better support for early windows games than windows does now.
CD Project doesn't do anything to improve WINE, so spending money there is wasted.
How many people actually download and store those installers though? I think GOG is awesome too but practically if you exclusively shop there you have the same problem unless you have a massive NAS on hand
I've still got my original installers and CD keys for Unreal Tournament 99 GOTY, Need for Speed Underground, Trackmania United, and a bunch of others, and even some DOS games, so there's at least some of us that keep the installers. I have a few of them on USB hard drives I've collected over the last 25 years or so... I really need to move them onto my NAS. :)
I used to buy directly from the publisher though. Some of them still have working download links, for example Ubisoft/Nadeo still have a working download link for Trackmania United even though it's nearly 20 years old now.
... The hundreds of GOG-based torrents disagree with this sentiment. You don't need EVERY person to store it. Just a handful of seedboxes can feed the world sort of thing...
Edit: But this does risk someone being malicious with the torrent of course...
It's kinda rich to plug Steam, where you also don't own your games.
Well for Steam at least the library is independent of the hardware
It comes pretty close to feature parity in terms of ownership. My kids can play my steam library on their own computers, I can play it on any machine I own, I don't have to pay them any kind of rental fee, and they maintain my software for me.
Only thing I can't do is what...sell my games to someone else? I don't do that anyways.
Replace the 3060 with an equally-priced AMD card and you'll actually get something decent for your money. Nvidia is horrible at these "lower" price points.
And something that can run PS3, PS2 and PS1 games!
I'm sorely disappointed that none of that fancy AI-powered Sony upscaling can be put to use to any of those old games.
I guess it depends on frequency of use, but I've never had a mouse last ten years. I wear through the switch on the mouse button in less than that, starts to act unreliably.
Unfortunately, physical media for gaming died when always-online DRM was normalized. It doesn't matter if you have a game on a disc when you have to phone home every time to use it. The corporation may still block your access.
One more step in ensuring no one owns anything. Lease or rent are your options.
That’s fine, I’ll just get better at sailing.
That's why your favorite letter is R.
Lease and rent, or piracy.
Reminder that you can put in whatever you want in a PC. And that you can get a decent gaming machine for 1k (700+PS plus).
CD Drive? No problem. DVD? Of course. Another SSD? Get some random 50$ thing and throw it in there. Floppy? Harvest some old PC and voila.
The real point is that you can upgrade it incrementally, you don't have to throw it away, and upgrading will allow you to play all your old games from generation to generation without having to rebuy them for the latest Gen.
Depends how old you get. After 30 years some games just don't work like they used to!
Thankfully we do have modern solutions for old fashioned problems now.
Even if you give a shit about upgrading, binding yourself to sony or whatever company.
Within limits though. E.g. If your mainboard only supports old CPUs that is a huge limiting factor and we saw MS messing with older CPUs just not being supported at all by Win 11.
Now i made the switch to Linux myself too and i am very happy, but for people who want to start somewhere, maybe starting with their own linux gaming PC is a bit much for the start.
I think that's overkill, but a Steam Deck is on par with a PS5, but portable, and for a cheap dock and a ps5 controller you can play it like a console.
Linux has made such leaps though, have a container with lutris and vulkan and it can handle most basic gaming that doesn't deal with modern AAA titles.
I got a Steam Deck because it's a little computer. I can put my own OS on it, that's awesome. The marketing page was talking about DIY repairs and offering spare parts, too.
I mean i am fully in support of PC gaming and in particular Linux gaming. It is just not as easy to keep upgrading PCs component by component. Eventually there is limits, mostly from the mainboards limits.
Meh, gaming pc of theseus, you replace the mobo less often than a console Gen, more if you want.
I was using the same board and CPU I started with back in 2016 up until last year. My bottleneck wasnt even the CPU it was the fucken RAM.
While this is true, consoles still manage to have a way more convenient experience. Its the only reason why they exist (today)
I think that's mainly a relic from the past. I didn't have compability or driver issues for a long time.
Once the PC is set up, it's as comfortable as a console. Setting the PC up to console standards is reduced to installing steam.
Looks like you never played on a computer on a TV screen. The experience is plaged by pad connection problems (Bluetooth), windows popups, random no full screen issues, sound suddenly on the wrong channel, microphone not working, mouse cursor in the middle of the screen (often reset to the middle after launching the game, even when you are playing with a pad) and so on. You still need a keyboard and a mouse near your couch and there is always something. For sure iam still not paying the markup for a console, but i get why there is a big market.
What are you on about? I use my PC on my TV all the times and I don't have a single issue you describe. I just have it connected with Hdmi. The TV even turns on and off automatic if function activate.
I've definitely had some of those issues. I won't count an old issue where my GPU needed a special connection to attach audio to its DVI output (rare oddity). Some others:
I've definitely gotten it working and had a blast, but the number of button presses to get to starting the game can sometimes be hard to predict. Even when I had a computer dedicated to the TV (a long time ago when SteamOS was fledgling) it was pretty unreliable about having all the right updates and not needing a mouse.
The only problem with optical drives for PC is that most modern case no longer support them.
A surprising amount of Fractal Design's cases do.
I've checked it, and yes. Also some of the lower-end of Be Quiet!.
They make pull out cup holders to put in the CD rom rive slot. There are so many goofy fun things a computer can have in it.
Having a pull out cup holder seems insane to me, my personal rule is no drinks near my pc at all.
That said, I have a drawer in place of my cd drive that holds all my small peripherals (thumb drives, usb to sd card adapter, stuff like that) and it's great.
I was just trying to say something absurd that I've seen being sold for PCs lol
I work in IT, the rule for me, closed lid drinks around PCs, no food or drinks in the server room. Unless you are me...the system/network engineer
LGR did a great video on crazy expansion slot PC accessories. One of them was a pull out ashtray with a push plug lighter like cars used to have. https://youtu.be/_ErL39wqO-c?si=zWyVR6m_LqE6SBE0
In what universe do you live? Ps plus is $80, not $300
Nintendo is going to continue to eat everybody's lunch with decisions like this one
Sony's problems are twofold:
If they had plenty of the latter, they could weather this. But there are still games releasing for the PS4, and they have had 1, maybe 2 PS5 releases that would qualify as first party this year (that don't bubble down to PC).
Jesus christ, Nintendo is gonna win it all aren't they?
Is it better to buy a ps4?
PS4 is superior in every way but power. Small, cheap and high availability, huge game library. PS4 will stay relevant this entire. gen
Or a PS5. The comparisons between PS5 and PS5 Pro are nearly impossible to notice.
Physical media or full rejection. Fuck you business school zombies squeezing blood from rocks
Pointless if the discs still need to talk to the server before you can use them.
Fuck that noise too.
But it's only 39.99 a month (conditions apply)!?!!
I stopped buying consoles after they wanted to charge me to use the internet. That's not how this works.
So, 24 years ago? If so, I'm right there with you in the "getting old" camp.
Paystation
All good points in the comments, but something I haven't seen a anyone talk about yet:
WHY is a DISK DRIVE $80??? All it does is read a disk. Any encryption on the disk would be decrypted on the console. External disk drives are like $20. If you specially brand them maybe you could go up to $40.
But $80? That's like a Gameboy Advance. That's a miyoo mini plus. That's an entire console in itself.
That's actually below market value for an external 4K UHD drive.
You're right! My point no longer stands. Removing the disk drive would then save about $100 from the console, which makes sense to remove if you're cutting costs and most players play digital anyways.
~also if you're pushing digital games.
Props for accepting a counterargument on the internet graciously. Not something we see often.
Digital doesn't have a secondary market which is the real reason. No money is made when you give away, sell, or share your physical games.
Blu-Ray never really took off as a mass-market format so the drives are relatively obscure and expensive without the benefits of manufacturing at scale.
Bruh, you can even get 2 or 3 DS lites for that price
Ah, I should have been more specific. Back in the day I got my GBA new for $75 retail. (With inflation that's probably a lot more now.)
Used DS lites are great, especially if you can fix the broken hinges and screens.
DS Lites imo have always been the best on the retro console value curve
They don't want you to own* physical media anymore.
I mean, I don't want to either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yar har
799€ here, 920€ with a disc drive. That is stupidly insane for a console. We're almost breaking the 1000€ barrier for an "upgrade", not even the new generation.
I'd bet my money Sony is just testing the grounds to see if they can set PS6 price in a few years over the 1k barrier.
This tbh
Ahhhh, so my ps5 is the most superior PlayStation still, good to know.
It's not, but it's the most reasonable purchase.
I think Sony never wanted a physical media PS5 console. The design made it seem like an after thought. Like a growth on the side of sleek lines.
they weren't completely wrong now. on thier own financials, its mentioned that only 30% of game sales are physical. physical buyers are now the minority.
I still jerk off manually.
I'm one of those people. I just can't be arsed to get up off the couch and put a game in. After work and kids I'm beat and just want to pick something and start playing.
basically market has always shown convenience often trumps ownership, music streaming, video streaming, games now. ownership is the vocal minority
I've also just learned over the years that I just don't go back to stuff all that much. If I finish a game, that's it I'm done. If I really want to go back in 20 years there's probably a PC port since there are very few console exclusives or just emulation.
It's too expensive. $500 is already too much for these things.
But capitalism's gotta capitalism.
If you think $700 is bad, it'll be £700 in the UK.
Which is $913.
Also:
median household income, UK (2022): £32,400 ($42,265)
median household income, USA (2022): $74,580
A PS5 Pro is 26% of the typical UK household monthly income.
A PS5 Pro is 11% of the typical US household monthly income.
The US pricing is bad. The UK pricing is absolutely insane.
Wow, just buy or build a comparable PC at that price point
remember when everyone was saying consoles where cheaper then pc and has more features
I think this piece of hardware is cheaper than a comparable PC, but longer term you'll pay quite a bit more for games.
true tho
Nah I'm good with my 2017 jailbroken switch with free games lol
What games are even worth it? Sony has like 5 'must play" exclusive games on their console
Putting the 5 in PS5
Sony has exactly one must play game you can’t play on a computer and I still own a ps4 for that one game, and believe me when emulation gets slightly better I will have a new Linux computer shaped suspiciously like a ps4
I have one of the ones that can be jailbroken. One day I'll do it
You can't share or sell the games... Looks like a bad investment...
Wait are you talking about without the disc drive or even with it?
You can get a disc drive for it, but it's $80 extra.
I forgot abou that
Like it or not the majority of game purchases are digital these days. It's a sad development for sure. I buy all my console games as physical discs myself.
Why can't you just plug in a random-ass USB 4KBR-disc drive?
Or sell one that we can use to bring in games from PS1, 2, 3, 4 and 5? And state that the drive will be able to be used going forward, into the next gen and beyond.
They've got a rich gaming history at this point and they don't care because they'd rather sell you an $80 digital copy that they can take away at any time and you can't trade it in or really own it. And it's the same with PC games as well, courtesy of Valve and then everyone else.
If the future is digital, we need laws that allow us to transfer ownership of digital content. It would have to be secure, obviously. Not just "steal somebody's console and trade all their games in".
On the idea of random drives: Many of them might not be able to read the encryption on Playstation discs. I could be wrong, but I think the way they operate involves more than just software encryption. Sony is best off making their own. Hence why pirates burn special copies.
On reading prior generations: I think they'd be capable of reading those if they wanted, but running old Playstation games is more a matter of correct CPU architecture. Most of us have played old games on the new consoles, but often there's a bit of manual porting/emulation logic going on to get it working - so the package delivered from PSN isn't exactly would come from an old PS2 disc.
IIRC the Xbox 360 used to do a thing where you'd put your old OG Xbox disc in, and it would download any extra code it needed to run. Most of these older games would be under a few MB of actual code.
Pretty sure the PS5 is powerful enough to run PS1 and PS2 emulated, and probably have a good crack at running PS3 games as well, although a lot of the good PS3 games got a remaster for the PS4 gen anyway.
I think the only thing stopping really us doing it now is the PS5 drive can't actually read CDs. Plus I think they want to test each game before release and sell us them on PSPlus tiers.
Yup, the Xbox does that; but it’s at least good to acknowledge that was not an insignificant effort on their part. They had a lot of people slowly putting out compatibility packages for old Xbox games based on popularity.
I’m guessing Sony doesn’t feel like doing that when they can also provide that hardware via more expensive cloud systems.
I'm pretty sure that would run you about the same as the external component, so there's no benefit to going with a third-party accessory
Yeah, looking at the prices, it's about right for what it is.
Suppose the upshot of using a generic component is you could also attach it to a PC.
Looks like the long term goal of them is to stop selling discs altogether. I couldn't even get BG3 on a disc when it came out, and I think Alan Wake 2 was the same (only physical copy I can see is the deluxe version with both AW1&2 on it).
I see the mythical digital savings never made it to us, to the surprise of absolutely fucking nobody. I wouldn't mind if they actually put games on a discounted price after a year or so, but you can still see several year old games at the full original retail price.
How much space does it come out of the box? I bought my PS5 a year ago.
It came with 667GB of space. Some games take up 100gb.
And now you want to make it digital only??? Uhhhh, fuck that. You better be giving me like 1000 terabytes.
The pro upped the storage to 2TB, but I really feel like when the PS5 launched we were at the point where they should have shipped with 4TB drives.
I haven't built a new computer in awhile, but 4tb ssd would have costed more than the console when it launched would it have not? Unless you are saying they should have shipped with a hybrid SSD/HDD setup. Not sure if read/write speeds would hold up to the frame rates needed for their games now.
You can get a 4TB NVME SSD for 200 USD these days. And of course Sony wouldn't pay retail price.
2TB, what Sony went for, does appear to have (just barely) the lowest price per GB right now though. $0.48/GB vs $0.52/GB for a cheap 4TB NVME SSD.
Honestly I'm surprised they didn't also release a 4TB version. But I imagine they may release it later so they can get a second wave of PS5 Pro headlines later on.
I agree with the sentiment, but the games don't play off the disc. The discs contain the game data that is installed to the SSD. You're using the same amount of storage whether you buy games physically or digitally. I buy mine physically because I like actually owning the game I paid $70 for.
The difference being that you can load the content back onto the SSD at will, and regardless of server statuses... A lot of people have bandwidth caps or live in places with shit internet speeds.
Edit: I should clarify that I know some publishers only use the disc as a license of sorts with only a few MB of data... I'm wholly against this concept. Think publishers that don't ship a working game on the disc should be barred from selling physical copies at all as it's just landfill.
Lol, e-waste
Total waste of sand.
Seriously though. Just buy a shelf and spend all of your money on anime figurines if you want to collect something that can still contribute micro plastics to the oceans.
no disk drive and the fucking stand is sold separately! too expensive!
Sony went the apple way. Next stand will be brushed aluminium for mere $999...
I have no incentive to play the latest and greatest software and hardware, but that’s just me here.
So what makes it pro?
Same as the PS4 Pro: it's significantly more powerful, has more storage, can actually do RT well, etc.
The price seems crazy to me though.
E: it's occured to me that the PS5 Pro pricing is likely a (comparatively small) release that they can test the waters for a $700 PS6.
If they release the PS6 for $700, it could backfire and compromise that entire generation, giving MS a foothold (we saw how MS ran away with the 360 when Sony botched the PS3 launch, and subsequently how MS lost all that momentum when they botched the XBone launch, and Sony ran away with the PS4).
If they test the waters with a PS5 Pro it doesn't matter all that much if they have to capitulate and drop the price.
Don't show Sony that the market is willing to pay $700. The PS5 Pro being accepted at $700 will guarantee a base PS6 at about the same.
"Significantly" Going by the comparison Sony felt large enough to brag about there's hardly a noticeable difference
An uplift of ~45% in overall performance, ray tracing going from awful to decent, hardware-accelerated upscaling (like DLSS) isn't "hardly noticeable" unless you don't have eyes.
And more storage and WiFi 7 may not be as flashy (hah, SSD storage, flash-y), but they're nonetheless improvements.
But, you know, if that's not good enough for you, don't get one. Nobody's forcing you. I know I have no desire for one, (especially not for $700!) I've been console-free since my 360 had a red ring of death.
I think the trick is that the normal PS5 is already $450 (no disc drive) or $500 (with disc drive).
So do the features on the Pro version provide an extra $200 to $330 worth of value?
So far, as a PS5 owner, I'm not seeing it.
Only if you don't have one already. Some of the more intense games graphically have shit upscaling so they shimmer. If higher internal resolution can fix this while running at good FPS, it might be worth it for some people
Remember that you still can't build a gaming PC for $700 that performs similarly.
Also explains why they raised the price on the normal PS5 - "Well, the Pro isn't THAT much more..."
From what i heard, the ps5 doesn't really have a problem with performance, unlike the ps 4.
Pro revisions are the time to go crazy with outrageous prices since they're not needed to be able to play any of the games. But if they try that crap with a base model, it's PC Master Race time for me.
Not having a disc drive.
I see lots of people in this thread saying to go to the PC or the Steam Deck, but are we ignoring that both systems do not have a disc drive too?
I mean, aside from the disgusting price of the PS5 Pro not having a disc drive is the biggest offender (and the reason why I am not even considering buying it, despite being a Sony user since the 1st unit).
I mean, technically you can install a disc drive onto your computer if you want.
TIL you can still buy disc games for PC.
seems like not that long ago i would've thought that the idea of a PC without any disc drive was insane. i had to help a neighbor kid the other week when forced bitlocker bricked his gaming PC, sure enough it didn't have any disc drive!
I was very confused by all this (also I don't use consoles unless you want to consider the Deck as one) until it dawned on me that what people are apparently now calling "disk drives" are apparently "optical disk drives/readers".
Aren't games dematerialised on consoles nowadays? Or is it strictly a PC thing?
So I can't play half the games I have, and the other half doesn't need the extra console power. Yay. WOrtH iT.
Wow, was waiting on the pro to drop, but now I giess I'll just pass the ps5 generstion altogether. This sucks ass.
I’m genuinely curious to how those things are going to sell. My knee jerk reaction is ‘oh hell no’ but there’s a lotta console players out there that want the power but just don’t want to get into PC gaming. Of course there seems to be a lot of people still playing on last gen consoles too so I have no idea where that’s going.
The problem is the reason those people don't get into PC gaming is because they don't wanna spend $700 on a gaming machine.
Most people that I’ve spoken to don’t mention the price. They usually talk about how they just don’t know how to get games in the first place and start talking about settings and updates that they always hear about. That being said, I still don’t know like I said lol. I’m just curious and want to see how it goes.
I mean the same people bought PS5s at launch from scalpers.
Nah from what I’ve heard is because they perceive as being very complex, more so than it actually is.
I can say that for myself it's not really just the price. I don't have space to put a computer. With a console I can hook it to the TV and tuck it up under it. When I wanna play I can grab just the controller and sit on the couch. I like simplicity. With a pc I need a mouse, keyboard, desk, a chair, speakers, and a monitor. I know it can be hooked up to a tv however the tower still stands as an issue. The smaller compact towers that can be tucked have limited capabilities that rest below consoles.
On top of all that PCs are regularly getting releases years after a games release. PC gaming is only superior if the things going to be entirely utilized by the person and for some reason a lot of PC gamers think the average person will be doing so when that's simply not the case.
That's not necessarily true. I want my gaming to just work, and that's not the case in Windows. It's becoming less the case with console gaming, but I can still be confident that when I buy a game for my PlayStation it'll actually boot, I won't need to use third-party software for controller support, and I won't need to tinker with drivers. That said, I already have a PS5. The TV I game on is still 1080p, so I don't understand what $700 would get me over my current hardware.
Sounds like your last pc gaming experience was in the 90s.
Yeah, steam straight up tells you if games have support for controllers, and they are all plug-and-play...
I did have to install 3rd part drivers for Dualshock 3. And I will follow a GitHub guide when the gaming PC is upgraded to Win11 and Logitech f710 no longer works. https://gist.github.com/bsamadi/4d4070658b7ea4ee7960cae40a7fccb4
ps6 gonna be discless
They talked about doing it this way at launch, which they should have. The drive is available as a peripheral, at the cost difference (actually cheaper) of the digital vs disc console. It simplifies manufacturing and distribution, which helps get more consoles on shelves. Now when it doesn't matter as much, they implement it. Go figure.
As far as killing off physical media, yes it pushes further that way, but honestly the game industry has been not favorable to retail stores for some time. This is the least of the offenses.
"least of the offenses"
I don't think you're zoomed out far enough. The constraint of physical media will be a deathstroke for consumers.
I don't disagree. In fact I agree fully. But when the industry promotes early access games (digital only) and digital day 1 with physical to follow 3 or 6 months later, it is pushing consumers to digital. So its irrelevant if they do or do not have an optical drive on the console.
Yeah, but the disc drive is the first thing to break, and replacement parts don't sell more consoles.
Now that the Console is overpriced to the extreme, modular parts are an added luxury.
Sony has been on a roll with the boneheaded products nobody wants.
Yup, not even slightly surprising, I do believe we have saw the last disk in a game console bit of a pity they are doing it in a refresh but you could tell from the bolted on disk drive that the only reason they added one at all is they would have lost alot of people who don’t have internet. The modern world will soon be completely inaccessible without internet.
I think they've lost touch with their user base, but I also think they know that there's some people that are just going to buy the console because they don't have a better option available.
Like don't get me wrong yes it's now the same price as a low end gaming computer and it doesn't have upgrade capability, and doesn't have a physical media drive, but you can put it right where your TV is, so no seperate setup so it takes up less space (PC games on a tv instead of a monitor looks weird and can be a pain to fix). Plus it's easier to use/more user friendly and everything is in one place.
I personally will not be upgrading past my current, as I find this generation to be super lack luster and not cost effective, but I can see why some might, I disagree with it but I see it.
Hey Sony, I love you but you trolling?
You can get a gaming laptop for that stick bazzite on it or use steam big picture on launch you've got a platform that does +60fps 4k HDR with 40 years worth of games. Consoles are getting very close to being irrelevant unless you like sports titles.
+60fps 2160p from a $700 gaming laptop is extremely unlikely. Unless you only play old games or really light stuff.
Only the lowest tier gaming laptops are at that price point these days. Laptops are more expensive than they were 10 years ago.
*1440p upscaled from 720p
I think the PS5 doesn't come with a monitor so, why a laptop?
It also doesn't run off battery power, hardly apples to apples.
I do even more appropriate if you count DLSS like the pro is, "play older games" basically what Sony has atm
Even with DLSS or FSR, you'd have to be at a decent resolution for upscaling to 4K not to look bad.
I don't really get what you mean. Almost all new games that come out will have a PS5 version? Am I being dumb here and misinterpreting you?
E: I checked BestBuy (the only US PC retailer I know of, I'm not from the US), and the best GPU in a $700 laptop is a RTX 4050 laptop edition, power-limited to 45W. Looking at benchmarks, this often struggles to reach 60FPS in GTA V at high settings - a game that released 11 years ago! And remember that's 1080P!
Not only that, the SSD in it is only 500GB. So just 3-6 modern games once you factor in the Windows install.
You're looking at a significant price if you want to use a laptop as a 4K console. Even with DLSS, which will render the game at 66% of the display resolution, you'd still need a capable 1440p gaming laptop. And 1440p is ~80% more pixels to push than 1080p.
The PS5 pro is using similar scaling tech, but both my Bazztie “consoles” can play some games native 4k, and using DLSS/FSR with a 2k signal like the pro will be doing obviously gains more titles.
The older games are referring to the PS5 pro line up, it's all older games that most pc builds around this price can compete with. List taken from Polygon:
I used laptops as an example for someone who does not want to build, but my living room one is a mid AM4 from 2019 build that I put an AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT in. So about £800 build the cost of the upper end PS5 pro and not far off the base. My Nitro 5 was £700.
My comment was more about the irrelevancy of consoles once they start getting past the £500 mark, used to be that you'd have a good advantage over a mid-tier PC for about 2 years. Now it's basically on par for the same money short of wanting to play exclusives, which Sony hasn't really been pumping out this gen. Where the PC library is huge, add in Emulation and it's even bigger.
You can't scale $700 laptop performance up to 4K 60fps without it being an absolute mess.
You mention the tech being similar, that is true, but upscaling from a, say, 1700p signal to a 4K one is an entirely different beast to 1080p > 4K.
Those "old" games would utterly destroy a $700 gaming laptop. You'd be very lucky indeed to get 60FPS even at low 1080p.
Consoles being vastly better price/perf at the start of the generation and then getting overtaken by PC towards the end has always been the case. Every generation at the start there's alarmism about consoles killing PC gaming, then mid-to-late gen people act as if console gaming is dead. Neither end up happening.
That said, you'd still struggle to build a $700 PC that outperforms a PS5 Pro. You could get reasonably close maybe if you're clever with the budget, though.
I'm not arguing against PC. I think PC is the better and better value platform. I play on PC exclusively (well my kids have a switch, and I play with them, I guess, but just for me personally it's all PC or Steam Deck).
I'm just saying there is zero chance of you getting a 4K gaming laptop for $700. $1250+ seems a lot more likely.
Theres only been one reason to buy a console for over a decade:
Exclusives and Natively Developed Titles.
Sure, you can play Monster Hunter World and The Last of Us on PC, but they look worse and handle like a classic japanese car.
A classic Japanese car? Like those nimble little things that drift down crazy steep mountains and stuff?
Lmfao yeh those Nissan Cherry Alfa were real nimble.
Uhhh. Maybe I'm a little TOO far from the console crowd but I'm going to say this anyways.
Who tf cares? I'm a PC gamer and I've been without a disk drive since 2009.
I will happily admit it is definitely a different situation. For one, this would essentially give Sony a monopoly on games. Which would mean that they would never lower prices and gamers have no one to go to other than them. You know what I'm talking about, all the same shit that Nintendo has been doing for years.
I guess that I'm just curious how many people dislike this.
cant function as a dvd player as well as console if there isnt a disc drive
some people just have games on disc and without a disc drive they either have to buy the disc drive seperate or rebuy their game digitally
If I'm not mistaken it's actually a Blu-ray player not just a dvd player. Mind you this is from memory not necessarily a fact, lol
It's def a blu-ray player. In fact it's not just that, it's a 4k blu-ray player.
Actually the disk drives makes the console attractive, as you can snag cheap second hand games
Oh yeah, no doubt. One of the whole benefits of PC gaming is being able to snag games from other retailers. Honestly disk drive consoles have the advantage of being able to snag games from other users.
Another big problem imo is also that you effectively lose ownership of your games. Inevitably, servers would be shut down and you wouldn't be able to download the games that you own. And that's if things go well. Some games could always just go away earlier as we've seen on other platforms. However, if you own the disk, then that's that, you can play the game forever.
On steam, the same problem could technically happen, but I trust Steam significantly more. It's very much in their best interest to keep growing their library of games and not stop supporting them. I still have games from 10+ years ago on it and I expect to keep them 10+ years from now.
700 is insane. I guess I’ll wait for the PC release of Wolverine instead of playing it on the base PS5 then. Sony really shit the bed this cycle.
They got off to a great start with the PS5, but as their lead grew over their only real direct competitor, they became a good example of the problems with monopolies all over again.
This is straight up back to PS3 launch all over again, as if they learned nothing.
Right on the tail end of a horribly mismanaged PSVR 2 launch.
We still barely have any current gen only games, and a $700 price point is insane for such a small library to actually make use of it.
In the UK it works out as 913 USD.
Sounds like a lot more PC converts in the making.
Price Has No Limits™
PayStation ∆◯╳☐
Completely different strategy: the PS4 generation has produced a lot of games, sony could have stopped trying to compete with the high end PC market and gone in the Nintendo direction. Gives us new ways to access their library, give developers new tools to play with, release a 2nd mid-gen refresh and release a ps4 slim that is equivalent to the ps4 pro, encourage games for new ps4-slim and ps4 pro+. What do you think?
It was pretty much a given that this would happen, since there were already options with and without disc drives.
And obviously sooner or later gaming will probably move to an entirely online service like streaming.
It's just a matter of time until the internet and worldwide coverage is ready for it. I always imagined that in a distant future we'd basically only buy a controller, that connects to an app that'll let you stream. And every game will be in a subscription service like a Netflix.
Nah, they won't do streaming cuz it's too expensive.
Well, for now it is. Latency is also a big issue
Id open it up and see if a connector is available and use it if so