As a non US citizen this is just a Robin Williams in Jumanji moment...
WHAT YEAR IS IT?!?!
Anyways, welcome to the year of the interwebs.
Have you got rid of your cheques and faxes yet? đ
interwebs
Itâs called âthe information superhighwayâ, thank you very much. đ
The Great Series of Tubes
It's not a big truck you just dump something on
Saw that on Netflix, addicting.
This must be true since I read about it on the line.
Oh we can file our taxes online, we're just required to pay massive amounts of money to a corporate middleman to do it.
Oh we can ___, we're just required to pay massive amounts of money to a corporate middleman to do it.
Basically America.
I still write 2 cheques a year because my water bill can only be paid via physical mail (or in person I guess), Iâm pretty sure fax is still common in our medical industry.
somewhat common but dropping.
What is it with water departments being such Luddites?! Having lived in a few different cities in a few different states, they always seem to be the one utility thatâs the biggest pain in the ass to work with. Gotta go down to their city office to start service - make sure to bring a voided check if you want to set up an auto draft to pay the bill because they donât take cards. Online account management? Nah, the closest they have to an online presence is their About page on the city website.
WHY?!
Do you want to pay more just to get all that up and running though?
Utility prices keep going up, regardless. Iâd rather they use the money for something useful.
I'd use Bank of America bill pay or something similar, they will print and mail your check.
I use a check for Rumpke for the same reason, but my checkbook is still useful for when a co-worker brings in their kid's fundraiser and i can quickly write ine out
my wife is disputing a Healthcare charge. Went to a specialist 13 times, they reimbursed us 9 times but not the other 4, at a cost of about $800.
we have to communicate with the appeals center by fax, and wait for their snail mail response.
At some point she should just stop jumping through their hoops and file in small claims court.
I still write checks, mostly to pay contractors and tip my hairdresser. I wrote a tip for a contractor the other day and made it out to cash. He said that was too old-school and he was afraid the bank wouldn't accept it!
I thought I had gotten rid of cheques, but I had to get a book specifically to get my passport.
I'm in the USA and we've been able to file our federal taxes for free online for like a decade, I'm not sure what these people are talking about. What's new here is that this is the IRS's official tool.
Previously we had to use an outside service -- but it was -- and still is -- free for normal people/people with normal taxes (eg I have 3 kids and a mortgage and I use it every year). State taxes are another story -- that's usually about $20. And that probably hasn't changed; state taxes have nothing to do with our IRS.
Except for the last several years itâs becoming harder to file for free. TurboTaxâs free service developed some worse and worse dark patterns every year, where it was very easy to click the wrong thing and end up being charged. Iirc the fact that they provided a free service at all was to keep control of the market and prevent the IRS from stepping in with a service like this. ProPublica did some good investigations on this.
Beat me to it.
Higher tax bracket Lemmings, note that Donate icon in the upper right of their excellent reporting. Reporters probably risking their lives with the stuff they uncover about the most powerful people.
Except for the last several years itâs becoming harder to file for free with TurboTax
Damn only like 20 years behind the rest of the world.
Couldnât hear you over the sound of my freedom
âŚnevermind, that was somebody rolling coal
I guess canada is 21 years behind now....
That is what happens when you let corporations run your country
Just a heads up itâs only available for the following states:
Arizona
California
Florida
Massachusetts
Nevada
New Hampshire
New York
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington state
Wyoming
Yeah, bummer. I'll have to wait I guess.
Which is funny considering this is only for federal and not state taxes. Do they say why itâs limited to specific states?
Most of the listed states do not have state level income taxes. The only exceptions are Arizona and California. The rest of the states have no state level income tax. Alaska is the only state without a state level income tax that isn't included in this IRS scheme.
I imagine there is a reason all but two of the chosen states lack a state level income tax.
Massachusetts does. Per the IRS site, the tool won't help file it, but will lead you to another tool that does.
State taxes are probably an additional complication in the calculations that hasnât been implemented yet for all states. And for those without a state income tax not covered, probably some other state-tax-adjacent thing
It's a trial program, to work out the major kinks, issues, and problems before rolling it out further to other states.
It's also federal-only, meaning you still have to do your state returns. Most of the states in the trial have no state income tax, which makes it an ideal solution for taxpayers in those states.
Expect it to expand to all 50 states in the coming years, presuming Republicans don't somehow manage to legislate it into oblivion like usual.
If they have no state level income tax how do the states get money for things? Do they just tax businesses?
Sales tax, property tax, lottery also
so the most populous states, and somehow, 2 in the bottom 5.
Testing the outliers?
mmm, scientific!
Surprised Texas is in that list.
Yeah, what a bummer that free federal tax returns are only offered to a few states.
If you aren't able to use this new system, a good second option is freetaxusa.com. Free for most filings and dirt cheap for more complex stuff. Also, they are easier to use than TurboTax.
It would probably have better adoption if it didn't have such a scammy-sounding name.
A better idea is to go to irs.gov and use their free file wizard to see which service is free for you. I used 1040.com this year. Last year I used freetaxusa.com, but this year that would not have been free for me due to my change in income. Which service is free depends on your state, income, and income complexity.
My problem with IRS.gov is they have a history of sending users to sites owned by Intuit. These sites would claim to be free, but would then trick the user into a paid pathway and guide them to an expensive paid checkout. I haven't been back to IRS.gov since experiencing that.
I learned later that Intuit (who owns Turbotax) had spent millions lobbying to get that to happen. Since the IRS can be lobbied by corporations to trick users like that, I just don't trust IRS.gov to be honest.
Intuit recently got slapped by a different government agency. I doubt that they will get that privelage again for a while.
TurboTax discontinued their participation in the IRS Free File program a few years back, IIRC. I don't think they'll be listed on the IRS's Free File website.
Corporations are able to buy their way into an IRS endorsement. There is no reason to trust their links just because a singularly egregious deception has been removed from their site.
The IRS presented them to the public as a "free option" for years, knowing they were not free. The IRS lied for profit. I have no reason at all to ever trust their suggestions.
It would be unreasonable for me to return to the same entity that lied to me and ask for more advice.
The IRS presented them to the public as a "free option" for years, knowing they were not free.
The only time they're not free is if you don't meet the requirements for the Free File Program or you try to use one of TurboTax's services that aren't part of the Free File Program.
I actually used TurboTax for years before they left the Free File Program (supposedly because it was too restrictive in what they could charge for), and I never had to pay a cent. I've since moved on to other tax sites that are still part of the Free File Program, and I've still never had to pay anything.
Most people who tried to use the program were deceived by Intuit. Intuit settled numerous lawsuits for their lies. Their expensive settlement is why Intuit left the program. Here's a relevant exerpt from an Ars Technica article on the topic:
Meanwhile, the federal government and US states have taken action against Intuit for its allegedly deceptive promises of "free" tax filing to lower-income taxpayers. In a May 2022 settlement with all 50 US states and the District of Columbia, Intuit agreed to pay $141 million in restitution to millions of consumers.
Intuit also agreed in the settlement to stop its "free, free, free" ad campaign. The firm was accused of steering customers away from the IRS Free File program that is free to 70 percent of taxpayers while using misleading ads to promote a separate "freemium" TurboTax product that isn't actually free for most people.
Separately, the Federal Trade Commission's chief administrative law judge ruled last month that Intuit violated US law with deceptive advertising and should be forced to stop promoting TurboTax as "free" unless all conditions imposed on the free offer are immediately and conspicuously displayed to consumers.
I would argue that the IRS wasn't at fault here, though. Like the article said, people were steered away from the Free File Program, so people having to pay wasn't a fault of the Free File Program but rather a fault of Intuit's deceptive practices of marketing their alternative freemium versions of their software.
The IRS was very aware of it as it had been going on for years. There were numerous complaints and lawsuits that the IRS were made aware of as they happened.
Intuit spent millions annually lobbying anyone who would accept their money and were permitted to remain part of the free-file program for years with their famously deceptive software.
The IRS and lawmakers have all been complicit in allowing this to happen for an extended period of time.
Just curious, why are you defending Intuit or the IRS? It seems an odd position to take. I've never encountered someone with this position before.
Check out Tax Hawk, it might be a good option for you this year
For a couple of years CreditKarma was the best free solution. Then Intuit bought them.
Intuit divested the tax product in that sale, which was bought by Block (FKA Square) and is part of their Cash App brand. So itâs still around and still not Intuit.
Last I checked you couldn't use the cash app version without downloading their app.
The login process for it is absolutely terrible and requires so much jumping back and forth between the dumb app and my computer, which is where I want to actually do my taxes.
that's who I use! $15 to file state, free federal; I mean that's pretty close to 'free' compared to Turbo/Inuit pushing you close to $100 after all the BS. And freetaxusa keeps my info for subsequent years, etc.
that's who I use! $15 to file state
I'd suggest using the IRS's Free File Program wizard to find a tax program that'll do your state taxes for free. You'd save a little money that way. Most tax programs will keep your info for multiple years after your first time using them, too.
thanks, but I make too much according to that, which is something else people seem to skip over whenever these "just do it for free!!!!" posts come up. You have to make below $80k (AGI) even when married.
But, again, even if I didn't, $15 seems pretty fair to me, to avoid having to hunt for the magical free method.
I've been using this for years and have been happy with the service. If I have to pay for something at least I'm not giving money to TurboTax.
Also, check with your state tax site, as sometimes they have free state filing options.
I used it, but then one year it was telling me I owed money. When I double checked on TurboTax, it was the opposite. I went with Turbo Tax. Iâve been wary of FreeTaxUSA sinceâŚ
Be careful. If software miscalculates in your favor and the IRS figures it out, you're gonna have a bad time.
I experienced true happiness for a moment. Only one moment.
Why is it only available in such a limited number of states?
This is the first launch of the program and they're still in a pilot phase. It will presumably roll out to more states (maybe all?) Next year
According to their website it could roll out to more states as soon as mid March of this year.
Well I don't reward laziness and this should have been running in the late 90s.
I guess I'll just file my taxes when the lazy IRS gets off their asses.
The IRS could not legally do this before. They had tried and were sued.
Likely because of state government and state income tax.
The IRS doesn't have anything to do with state taxes though unless they're also handling your state filing free for you?
These states are building online filing systems as well. I think that is why they are included.
Due to lack of public identity infrastructure, filing taxes online in Britain takes a long time. I mean, at least 10 minutes đ
It takes at least that long for me to figure out if I was a Lloyds underwriter on the second Tuesday after the third waxing moon every year.
Why did this take the IRS so long where other nations have been doing this for decades?
Turbotax, H&R Block, and the other tax companies are massively wealthy companies that actively lobby to push laws to keep them from being simple. There are states that they have managed to bar the same thing from happening in.
To clarify, TurboTax isnât the company, it is Intuit. They are pretty shitty when it comes to lobbying congress on this.
TurboTax isnât the company, it is Intuit.
Technically, it was a company that Intuit acquired in '94.
They are also the de-facto place for large companies that need automated payroll. So some people (like me) get paid by the same crooks.
They are actually not the de facto for large company when it comes to payroll. I think the majority of their customers at companyâs with less than 10
employees. I use to work for Intuit on the Quickbooks payroll product. I left about two years ago but I donât think itâs changed that much.
The other guy linked the answer, but I'm going to explain it anyway:
In the US, companies have the freedom to bribelobby our congress members by giving them money that's totally unrelated to their vote you guys. The reasoning behind that being ok is that the congress official in question is still technically free to vote however they choose despite the money given to them. The reason lobbying works is the threat that the congress person might not get that money next time if they vote against that company's interests.
Just so you all know, because our congress members make a government salary of about 150k-250k/year, it's surprisingly cheap (from a rich company perspective) to lobby them, with lots of payments being in the low thousands. So for obscenely wealthy companies (like intuit), it's much cheaper to pay just enough guys off to kill a movement than for them to suffer the actual consequences of that movement.
In this case, intuit's entire business model depends on American taxes seeming like this mysterious and unapproachable thing that Americans have to pay a third party for in order to not get thrown in jail by the IRS. And given that intuit (and companies like H&R block) rake in billions each year, it's comparatively pennies to pay off congress officials to keep it that way.
Same reason why our Healthcare system is fucked, it being fucked helps the Insurance Companies make money.
Most nations don't require you to do anything other than check your payslips unless your situation is complex.
Ehh, in the Netherlands you need to report all bank accounts, home value, income from salary and contracts and a fuckton more.
It's all done via a web app made by the Tax Authority.
And nearly all of that is usually prefilled correctly to the euro by the Belastingdienst.
Hmmmm đ¤
I'm 100% for a simple IRS tax return but what the heck is with this?
To use Direct File, you need an IRS account with ID.me.
To get an ID.me account, you need to:
Take a video of your face
If you can't or don't want to take a video of your face, you can have a video call with an ID.me agent who will confirm that your face matches your identification.
Is that really necessary???
It's the same as going to a bank and letting the teller look at your face. It's to prevent someone from stealing your identity using a picture of your ID.
How can they verify the ID is real without physically seeing it? They look up the info but still need to verify that you are the person on the ID.
How have they been verifying mailed in tax forms with no pictures for decades?
Seems like it unnecessarily disenfranchises the poor and the elderly. You have to have access to equipment that can record you and the tech savvy to be able to use it.
How have they been verifying mailed in tax forms with no pictures for decades?
Ok but how come H&R Block doesn't need to do this? I just give them my IRS PIN and the AGI from last year's return. The picture shit feels like a poison pill
They can do that with a drivers license like they have for the last few decades.
And they're using a face recognition service from a for profit corporation ID.ME. Not ok. I'll continue to use their freefillable forms option, but if they discontinued that I'll just go back to paper mailing. This is not a step forward.
I'm pretty sure you're required to provide your driver's license info at some point during the sign-up process, actually. Though it's been a while, so I don't remember for sure.
If it's like I remember, it's to confirm that the person on the ID matches the person who's signing up. Banks do the same when the teller asks for your ID. And so do the people who ask for your ID when you go to vote. It's the same basic process. It's just digital instead of in-person.
Stupid fraud prevention ugh!
Listen folks, if you have a driver license, they already have your face, so settle down.
countries with no national ID cards and no plans for one: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, UK. 1
And they do taxes just fine without a Harry Potter like gif of every tax payer.
Privacy reasons aside, TurboTax doesn't require a video clip to file your taxes so this is only raising the technical barrier against the widespread adoption of a simple tax system.
I don't mind this being done through the government site, but it shouldn't be done by a third party business.
Good thing Intuit (TurboTax) is fighting so hard to keep the current format super slick and cheaper as a private service rather than a centralized government process. Right up there with disbanding garbage pickup in favor of individually contracted services because [checks notes] 7 overlapping truck routes will be cheaper than 1
While... I agree with you on companies like Intuit pulling this is bullshit, depending on the region you're in the trash example used is... not great.
Speaking in the Kansas City region where City of Kansas City trash pickup is literally two bags allowed, no cans used, often late, the bags tear easily, and with this whole freeze thing they're still behind two weeks out. I live outside in one of those 5 (I'm not kidding, one literally started up last year) overlapping truck routes and it is insanely better. That said, previous town I lived in the town did the trash pickup and they did a good job, got the cans that could be auto lifted and even regularly had large item pickup days for free so even better than where I'm at now.
Anecdotal evidence here, too. My experience is the opposite. Never had an issue with my city picking up the trash, putting the can back reasonably, and not randomly skipping my shit. Moved to a different NEIGHBORHOOD, one not directly serviced by the city, and half the time they don't get it, and when they do the can ends up about 10 feet from where it should be, blocking my driveway.
To make matters worse, presumably my taxes paid for the previous pickup. Now they pay for the previous pickup, AND I have to pay for shit service!
Somebody think of the poor corporations!
18F looking for tax filling help
k if u single but looking to file jointly đđ
why is it the US is hellbent on making everything a state by state issue but at the same time saying federal law is above state law in such cases like Texas but states with legal cannabis or states with legal abortion are allowed to be above federal
is the US the United States or not
make it make sense
The things that the federal government is responsible for are laid out in the Constitution, everything the Constitution does not place into the responsibilities of the federal government is left to state or local authorities.
Tenth Amendment:
Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.
that old thing desperately needs to be rewritten
You trust the politicians of today to rewrite the whole thing? They can't even agree on a budget.
Before or after a guillotine is set up outside the place where they're drafting it as insurance?
It's 50 states in a trench coat
50 countries, but yeah
A state is just another term for a country. The two words never meant something different until our American Union got some people confused.
That's a fair point. I was mostly sticking to the colloquial usage.
make it make sense
We're a slightly tighter coupled EU with less history of separation. We're states that are united. Not one big ol unified country.
IDK why people are downvoting you, that's essentially how it works. Everything is super interconnected now, but it wasn't always that way and the constitution hasn't been updated to reflect it.
Not one big ol unified country.
Whatâd the frats chant when we killed Bin Laden? ;)
Frats are probably not the best go to for people educated on the country lol
"more poon now!"
The idea of checks and balances on the exercise of government powers extends to even the state/federal relationship.
Good stuff. Keep in mind that Intuit fought this for a very long time. But since they finally got stomped, the IRS can do it's thing now.
If you lived in a state not listed here, the District of Columbia, or a U.S. territory, Direct File won't support your tax filing needs.
lol I guess not for me!
We're rolling the pilot out in phases, and it is not available to the public yet. It is expected to be more widely available in mid-March.
Check back mid-march ig
Tax Hawk is another software that offers free federal filing.
I know it's just a trial right now. The IRS still offers free tax prep through the free file program. The tires of income don't matter.
How could they launch this and not support login.gov for the auth...
No Login dot gov
No support in most states
No ACA filers
No app payments
Lots of reason to be frustrated. BUT! This is an absolutely delicious blow to the Intuit lobbyists and if it can handle the simplest of the simple, think of the green light theyâll have towards eventual global parity!
Been so bad (and evil) for so long, Iâm in the mood to celebrate more than nitpick. (No Login dot gov I will say is the funniest thing not to be considered MVP - understandable but funny.)
It's in beta. I'll take it
I mean I still login to the VA with DOD credentials or ID.me. They just recently created a VA account specific login. Login.gov is a great idea that won't get any traction because our government's departments are mostly siloed. They quite often just don't even know something is available.
Honestly I'll hope reservations and congratulations till after we see how it goes, but the fact it's a limited pilot makes me optimistic.
the fact itâs a limited pilot makes me optimistic
:-/
I've seen far too many good ideas go through a "limited pilot" program, outperform their intended targets, piss off someone in the DC corporate circuit, and get their budgets vaporized by the next Congress.
Yeah small programs are easy to pivot, double edged sword in a political environment
This is great for citizens!
I'm not sure they get bragging rights about a smooth site launch for a tax preparation application when most people don't even have their W2s yet...
We'll see whether this is another healthcare.gov when people actually try to use it, but this is a huge win for people who qualify.
Today is the last day a company has to file and send w2's so most folks should actually have them by now or very very soon.
can't use it if i got my health insurance through obamacare? -_- fucking bullshit
I can't use it because I live in the wrong state. Truly some fucking bullshit.
To be specific, this is a pilot program, with the full launch coming later.
Ya last year 50 states worth of all insured and uninsured people dealt with evil tax prep companies :)
Yeah I heard they were working on this but at the time no one expected anything this year. Good for those able to utilize it.
I don't think I'll ever be able to use it, since it doesn't list capital gains as a supported type of income
Unless that's also related to it being a pilot
No matter what is planned right now, if this isnât a PR disaster but the opposite and all the direct filers are gleeful about it, I think itâll be good enough publicity for them to broaden it to most any use case.
CPAs with a million times more insight may need to correct me there though.
I'm sure it'll support everything the irs accepts eventually
I'd be down with a system that literally just says, "This is what we have on record for you, would you like to file this or dispute it?" Considering they get copies of all your tax documents.
Yeah. Hey was your username previously (if abbreviated) SMCF?
Nope. It comes from an old Army nickname for mortarmen.
Ah OK! Thereâs another user with Maggoty in their name then. Yours is much much tamer :)
Congrats, Americans! It's a long time coming but still a huge deal and I'm happy for you all đ
For anyone who has filed with it, how much does this return differ from using a company? Is your total return the same or can a tax professional get you back a significant amount more?
You get as much back as you would if you knew what to claim.
If you have a simple return then it should be identical. There's only one way to fill out form 1040 correctly. Its unclear if this will walk you through itemizing or more obscure deductions like other places do.
I seem to recall an income cap so I might not be able to use it but my son will and that's a good thing.
Can someone with more knowledge than me explain how this might differ from Canada's system
It differs because more of it goes to the defense budget than any other country by a high order of magnitude.
I canât wait until this is available in my state!
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
Sadly it doesn't support reporting income from independent contracting (yet).
If you lived in a state not listed here, the District of Columbia, or a U.S. territory, Direct File won't support your tax filing needs.
Ok so here in DC we don't get a voting representative, senators, or that free software other states get. Got it.
it's a soft launch of only 13 states. they'll roll it out to everyone next year probably
I don't understand the praise here. 1040EZ is about as simple as it gets, and it's free to file.
1040EZ hasn't been a thing since 2018.
a basic tax return then. don't be pedantic. it's a simple as following some fucking directions. i haven't filed a simple return in almost 20 years so EXCUSE my mistake. The IRS is cancer and shouldn't be praised in any way shape of form.
Who are you to call anyone or anything a cancer when youâre so obviously ignorant of basic information, the attitude comes across like an old man yelling at clouds.
Even if they were a cancer itâs not like it changes without improvement. Your entire premise is destructive and useless.
Keep defending the hand that holds you down.
Then figure it out because people have been talking about it for a long time.
No they haven't. Taxes are easy to do yourself if you're not a dullard.
As a non US citizen this is just a Robin Williams in Jumanji moment...
WHAT YEAR IS IT?!?!
Anyways, welcome to the year of the interwebs.
Have you got rid of your cheques and faxes yet? đ
Itâs called âthe information superhighwayâ, thank you very much. đ
The Great Series of Tubes
It's not a big truck you just dump something on
Saw that on Netflix, addicting.
This must be true since I read about it on the line.
Oh we can file our taxes online, we're just required to pay massive amounts of money to a corporate middleman to do it.
Basically America.
I still write 2 cheques a year because my water bill can only be paid via physical mail (or in person I guess), Iâm pretty sure fax is still common in our medical industry.
somewhat common but dropping.
What is it with water departments being such Luddites?! Having lived in a few different cities in a few different states, they always seem to be the one utility thatâs the biggest pain in the ass to work with. Gotta go down to their city office to start service - make sure to bring a voided check if you want to set up an auto draft to pay the bill because they donât take cards. Online account management? Nah, the closest they have to an online presence is their About page on the city website.
WHY?!
Do you want to pay more just to get all that up and running though?
Utility prices keep going up, regardless. Iâd rather they use the money for something useful.
I'd use Bank of America bill pay or something similar, they will print and mail your check.
I use a check for Rumpke for the same reason, but my checkbook is still useful for when a co-worker brings in their kid's fundraiser and i can quickly write ine out
my wife is disputing a Healthcare charge. Went to a specialist 13 times, they reimbursed us 9 times but not the other 4, at a cost of about $800.
we have to communicate with the appeals center by fax, and wait for their snail mail response.
At some point she should just stop jumping through their hoops and file in small claims court.
I still write checks, mostly to pay contractors and tip my hairdresser. I wrote a tip for a contractor the other day and made it out to cash. He said that was too old-school and he was afraid the bank wouldn't accept it!
I thought I had gotten rid of cheques, but I had to get a book specifically to get my passport.
I'm in the USA and we've been able to file our federal taxes for free online for like a decade, I'm not sure what these people are talking about. What's new here is that this is the IRS's official tool.
Previously we had to use an outside service -- but it was -- and still is -- free for normal people/people with normal taxes (eg I have 3 kids and a mortgage and I use it every year). State taxes are another story -- that's usually about $20. And that probably hasn't changed; state taxes have nothing to do with our IRS.
Except for the last several years itâs becoming harder to file for free. TurboTaxâs free service developed some worse and worse dark patterns every year, where it was very easy to click the wrong thing and end up being charged. Iirc the fact that they provided a free service at all was to keep control of the market and prevent the IRS from stepping in with a service like this. ProPublica did some good investigations on this.
Beat me to it.
Higher tax bracket Lemmings, note that Donate icon in the upper right of their excellent reporting. Reporters probably risking their lives with the stuff they uncover about the most powerful people.
https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers/
These just don't advertise as much
Faxes... No, no we have not gotten rid of them. On the other hand, that means shenanigans are still available!
Nottrue - faxes are widely in use in Healthcare due to hipaa rulesOkay, I said we've not gotten rid of them? But the good news is you can do shenanigans like fax Dad Jokes to random fax numbers...
Oh, I misread your comment, my bad.
Damn only like 20 years behind the rest of the world.
Couldnât hear you over the sound of my freedom
âŚnevermind, that was somebody rolling coal
I guess canada is 21 years behind now....
That is what happens when you let corporations run your country
Just a heads up itâs only available for the following states:
Arizona California Florida Massachusetts Nevada New Hampshire New York South Dakota Tennessee Texas Washington state Wyoming
Yeah, bummer. I'll have to wait I guess.
Which is funny considering this is only for federal and not state taxes. Do they say why itâs limited to specific states?
Most of the listed states do not have state level income taxes. The only exceptions are Arizona and California. The rest of the states have no state level income tax. Alaska is the only state without a state level income tax that isn't included in this IRS scheme.
I imagine there is a reason all but two of the chosen states lack a state level income tax.
Massachusetts does. Per the IRS site, the tool won't help file it, but will lead you to another tool that does.
State taxes are probably an additional complication in the calculations that hasnât been implemented yet for all states. And for those without a state income tax not covered, probably some other state-tax-adjacent thing
It's a trial program, to work out the major kinks, issues, and problems before rolling it out further to other states.
It's also federal-only, meaning you still have to do your state returns. Most of the states in the trial have no state income tax, which makes it an ideal solution for taxpayers in those states.
Expect it to expand to all 50 states in the coming years, presuming Republicans don't somehow manage to legislate it into oblivion like usual.
If they have no state level income tax how do the states get money for things? Do they just tax businesses?
Sales tax, property tax, lottery also
so the most populous states, and somehow, 2 in the bottom 5.
Testing the outliers?
mmm, scientific!
Surprised Texas is in that list.
Yeah, what a bummer that free federal tax returns are only offered to a few states.
If you aren't able to use this new system, a good second option is freetaxusa.com. Free for most filings and dirt cheap for more complex stuff. Also, they are easier to use than TurboTax.
It would probably have better adoption if it didn't have such a scammy-sounding name.
A better idea is to go to irs.gov and use their free file wizard to see which service is free for you. I used 1040.com this year. Last year I used freetaxusa.com, but this year that would not have been free for me due to my change in income. Which service is free depends on your state, income, and income complexity.
My problem with IRS.gov is they have a history of sending users to sites owned by Intuit. These sites would claim to be free, but would then trick the user into a paid pathway and guide them to an expensive paid checkout. I haven't been back to IRS.gov since experiencing that.
I learned later that Intuit (who owns Turbotax) had spent millions lobbying to get that to happen. Since the IRS can be lobbied by corporations to trick users like that, I just don't trust IRS.gov to be honest.
Intuit recently got slapped by a different government agency. I doubt that they will get that privelage again for a while.
TurboTax discontinued their participation in the IRS Free File program a few years back, IIRC. I don't think they'll be listed on the IRS's Free File website.
Corporations are able to buy their way into an IRS endorsement. There is no reason to trust their links just because a singularly egregious deception has been removed from their site.
The IRS presented them to the public as a "free option" for years, knowing they were not free. The IRS lied for profit. I have no reason at all to ever trust their suggestions.
It would be unreasonable for me to return to the same entity that lied to me and ask for more advice.
The only time they're not free is if you don't meet the requirements for the Free File Program or you try to use one of TurboTax's services that aren't part of the Free File Program.
I actually used TurboTax for years before they left the Free File Program (supposedly because it was too restrictive in what they could charge for), and I never had to pay a cent. I've since moved on to other tax sites that are still part of the Free File Program, and I've still never had to pay anything.
Most people who tried to use the program were deceived by Intuit. Intuit settled numerous lawsuits for their lies. Their expensive settlement is why Intuit left the program. Here's a relevant exerpt from an Ars Technica article on the topic:
I would argue that the IRS wasn't at fault here, though. Like the article said, people were steered away from the Free File Program, so people having to pay wasn't a fault of the Free File Program but rather a fault of Intuit's deceptive practices of marketing their alternative freemium versions of their software.
The IRS was very aware of it as it had been going on for years. There were numerous complaints and lawsuits that the IRS were made aware of as they happened.
Intuit spent millions annually lobbying anyone who would accept their money and were permitted to remain part of the free-file program for years with their famously deceptive software.
The IRS and lawmakers have all been complicit in allowing this to happen for an extended period of time.
Just curious, why are you defending Intuit or the IRS? It seems an odd position to take. I've never encountered someone with this position before.
Nice, hereâs that link.
Check out Tax Hawk, it might be a good option for you this year
For a couple of years CreditKarma was the best free solution. Then Intuit bought them.
Intuit divested the tax product in that sale, which was bought by Block (FKA Square) and is part of their Cash App brand. So itâs still around and still not Intuit.
Last I checked you couldn't use the cash app version without downloading their app.
The login process for it is absolutely terrible and requires so much jumping back and forth between the dumb app and my computer, which is where I want to actually do my taxes.
that's who I use! $15 to file state, free federal; I mean that's pretty close to 'free' compared to Turbo/Inuit pushing you close to $100 after all the BS. And freetaxusa keeps my info for subsequent years, etc.
I'd suggest using the IRS's Free File Program wizard to find a tax program that'll do your state taxes for free. You'd save a little money that way. Most tax programs will keep your info for multiple years after your first time using them, too.
thanks, but I make too much according to that, which is something else people seem to skip over whenever these "just do it for free!!!!" posts come up. You have to make below $80k (AGI) even when married.
But, again, even if I didn't, $15 seems pretty fair to me, to avoid having to hunt for the magical free method.
I've been using this for years and have been happy with the service. If I have to pay for something at least I'm not giving money to TurboTax.
Also, check with your state tax site, as sometimes they have free state filing options.
I used it, but then one year it was telling me I owed money. When I double checked on TurboTax, it was the opposite. I went with Turbo Tax. Iâve been wary of FreeTaxUSA sinceâŚ
Be careful. If software miscalculates in your favor and the IRS figures it out, you're gonna have a bad time.
I experienced true happiness for a moment. Only one moment.
Why is it only available in such a limited number of states?
This is the first launch of the program and they're still in a pilot phase. It will presumably roll out to more states (maybe all?) Next year
According to their website it could roll out to more states as soon as mid March of this year.
Well I don't reward laziness and this should have been running in the late 90s.
I guess I'll just file my taxes when the lazy IRS gets off their asses.
The IRS could not legally do this before. They had tried and were sued.
Likely because of state government and state income tax.
The IRS doesn't have anything to do with state taxes though unless they're also handling your state filing free for you?
These states are building online filing systems as well. I think that is why they are included.
Due to lack of public identity infrastructure, filing taxes online in Britain takes a long time. I mean, at least 10 minutes đ
It takes at least that long for me to figure out if I was a Lloyds underwriter on the second Tuesday after the third waxing moon every year.
Why did this take the IRS so long where other nations have been doing this for decades?
Turbotax, H&R Block, and the other tax companies are massively wealthy companies that actively lobby to push laws to keep them from being simple. There are states that they have managed to bar the same thing from happening in.
To clarify, TurboTax isnât the company, it is Intuit. They are pretty shitty when it comes to lobbying congress on this.
Technically, it was a company that Intuit acquired in '94.
They are also the de-facto place for large companies that need automated payroll. So some people (like me) get paid by the same crooks.
They are actually not the de facto for large company when it comes to payroll. I think the majority of their customers at companyâs with less than 10 employees. I use to work for Intuit on the Quickbooks payroll product. I left about two years ago but I donât think itâs changed that much.
The other guy linked the answer, but I'm going to explain it anyway:
In the US, companies have the freedom to
bribelobby our congress members by giving them money that's totally unrelated to their vote you guys. The reasoning behind that being ok is that the congress official in question is still technically free to vote however they choose despite the money given to them. The reason lobbying works is the threat that the congress person might not get that money next time if they vote against that company's interests.Just so you all know, because our congress members make a government salary of about 150k-250k/year, it's surprisingly cheap (from a rich company perspective) to lobby them, with lots of payments being in the low thousands. So for obscenely wealthy companies (like intuit), it's much cheaper to pay just enough guys off to kill a movement than for them to suffer the actual consequences of that movement.
In this case, intuit's entire business model depends on American taxes seeming like this mysterious and unapproachable thing that Americans have to pay a third party for in order to not get thrown in jail by the IRS. And given that intuit (and companies like H&R block) rake in billions each year, it's comparatively pennies to pay off congress officials to keep it that way.
-> 'Merica
Lobbyists - quite disgusting.
Legalized corruption đ
Same reason why our Healthcare system is fucked, it being fucked helps the Insurance Companies make money.
Most nations don't require you to do anything other than check your payslips unless your situation is complex.
Ehh, in the Netherlands you need to report all bank accounts, home value, income from salary and contracts and a fuckton more.
It's all done via a web app made by the Tax Authority.
And nearly all of that is usually prefilled correctly to the euro by the Belastingdienst.
Hmmmm đ¤
I'm 100% for a simple IRS tax return but what the heck is with this?
Is that really necessary???
It's the same as going to a bank and letting the teller look at your face. It's to prevent someone from stealing your identity using a picture of your ID.
How can they verify the ID is real without physically seeing it? They look up the info but still need to verify that you are the person on the ID.
How have they been verifying mailed in tax forms with no pictures for decades?
Seems like it unnecessarily disenfranchises the poor and the elderly. You have to have access to equipment that can record you and the tech savvy to be able to use it.
They haven't. Of course, the IRS deals with upwards 1 million potentially fraudulent claims per year. So, at some level, they're trying to avoid exacerbating the problem.
Ok but how come H&R Block doesn't need to do this? I just give them my IRS PIN and the AGI from last year's return. The picture shit feels like a poison pill
They can do that with a drivers license like they have for the last few decades.
And they're using a face recognition service from a for profit corporation ID.ME. Not ok. I'll continue to use their freefillable forms option, but if they discontinued that I'll just go back to paper mailing. This is not a step forward.
https://cyberscoop.com/irs-facial-recognition-identity-privacy/
I'm pretty sure you're required to provide your driver's license info at some point during the sign-up process, actually. Though it's been a while, so I don't remember for sure.
If it's like I remember, it's to confirm that the person on the ID matches the person who's signing up. Banks do the same when the teller asks for your ID. And so do the people who ask for your ID when you go to vote. It's the same basic process. It's just digital instead of in-person.
Stupid fraud prevention ugh!
Listen folks, if you have a driver license, they already have your face, so settle down.
And they do taxes just fine without a Harry Potter like gif of every tax payer.
Privacy reasons aside, TurboTax doesn't require a video clip to file your taxes so this is only raising the technical barrier against the widespread adoption of a simple tax system.
I don't mind this being done through the government site, but it shouldn't be done by a third party business.
A video of your face, you say?
You'd think a social insurance number would be enough...
Social Security number WAS NOT made to be an ID. It's not a secure unique number, it's just serial.
Oh I didn't know that. It kinda works like that in my country
In a country with proper citizen identification it might be (but even then, doubtful).
Good thing Intuit (TurboTax) is fighting so hard to keep the current format super slick and cheaper as a private service rather than a centralized government process. Right up there with disbanding garbage pickup in favor of individually contracted services because [checks notes] 7 overlapping truck routes will be cheaper than 1
While... I agree with you on companies like Intuit pulling this is bullshit, depending on the region you're in the trash example used is... not great.
Speaking in the Kansas City region where City of Kansas City trash pickup is literally two bags allowed, no cans used, often late, the bags tear easily, and with this whole freeze thing they're still behind two weeks out. I live outside in one of those 5 (I'm not kidding, one literally started up last year) overlapping truck routes and it is insanely better. That said, previous town I lived in the town did the trash pickup and they did a good job, got the cans that could be auto lifted and even regularly had large item pickup days for free so even better than where I'm at now.
Anecdotal evidence here, too. My experience is the opposite. Never had an issue with my city picking up the trash, putting the can back reasonably, and not randomly skipping my shit. Moved to a different NEIGHBORHOOD, one not directly serviced by the city, and half the time they don't get it, and when they do the can ends up about 10 feet from where it should be, blocking my driveway.
To make matters worse, presumably my taxes paid for the previous pickup. Now they pay for the previous pickup, AND I have to pay for shit service!
Somebody think of the poor corporations!
18F looking for tax filling help
k if u single but looking to file jointly đđ
why is it the US is hellbent on making everything a state by state issue but at the same time saying federal law is above state law in such cases like Texas but states with legal cannabis or states with legal abortion are allowed to be above federal
is the US the United States or not
make it make sense
The things that the federal government is responsible for are laid out in the Constitution, everything the Constitution does not place into the responsibilities of the federal government is left to state or local authorities.
Tenth Amendment:
that old thing desperately needs to be rewritten
You trust the politicians of today to rewrite the whole thing? They can't even agree on a budget.
Before or after a guillotine is set up outside the place where they're drafting it as insurance?
It's 50 states in a trench coat
50 countries, but yeah
A state is just another term for a country. The two words never meant something different until our American Union got some people confused.
That's a fair point. I was mostly sticking to the colloquial usage.
We're a slightly tighter coupled EU with less history of separation. We're states that are united. Not one big ol unified country.
IDK why people are downvoting you, that's essentially how it works. Everything is super interconnected now, but it wasn't always that way and the constitution hasn't been updated to reflect it.
Whatâd the frats chant when we killed Bin Laden? ;)
Frats are probably not the best go to for people educated on the country lol
"more poon now!"
The idea of checks and balances on the exercise of government powers extends to even the state/federal relationship.
Good stuff. Keep in mind that Intuit fought this for a very long time. But since they finally got stomped, the IRS can do it's thing now.
lol I guess not for me!
Check back mid-march ig
Tax Hawk is another software that offers free federal filing.
I know it's just a trial right now. The IRS still offers free tax prep through the free file program. The tires of income don't matter.
How could they launch this and not support login.gov for the auth...
No Login dot gov
No support in most states
No ACA filers
No app payments
Lots of reason to be frustrated. BUT! This is an absolutely delicious blow to the Intuit lobbyists and if it can handle the simplest of the simple, think of the green light theyâll have towards eventual global parity!
Been so bad (and evil) for so long, Iâm in the mood to celebrate more than nitpick. (No Login dot gov I will say is the funniest thing not to be considered MVP - understandable but funny.)
It's in beta. I'll take it
I mean I still login to the VA with DOD credentials or ID.me. They just recently created a VA account specific login. Login.gov is a great idea that won't get any traction because our government's departments are mostly siloed. They quite often just don't even know something is available.
https://www.nextgov.com/digital-government/2023/10/irs-wont-add-logingov-without-changes/391033/
Thanks Brandon
Honestly I'll hope reservations and congratulations till after we see how it goes, but the fact it's a limited pilot makes me optimistic.
:-/
I've seen far too many good ideas go through a "limited pilot" program, outperform their intended targets, piss off someone in the DC corporate circuit, and get their budgets vaporized by the next Congress.
Yeah small programs are easy to pivot, double edged sword in a political environment
This is great for citizens!
I'm not sure they get bragging rights about a smooth site launch for a tax preparation application when most people don't even have their W2s yet...
We'll see whether this is another healthcare.gov when people actually try to use it, but this is a huge win for people who qualify.
Today is the last day a company has to file and send w2's so most folks should actually have them by now or very very soon.
can't use it if i got my health insurance through obamacare? -_- fucking bullshit
I can't use it because I live in the wrong state. Truly some fucking bullshit.
To be specific, this is a pilot program, with the full launch coming later.
Ya last year 50 states worth of all insured and uninsured people dealt with evil tax prep companies :)
Yeah I heard they were working on this but at the time no one expected anything this year. Good for those able to utilize it.
I don't think I'll ever be able to use it, since it doesn't list capital gains as a supported type of income
Unless that's also related to it being a pilot
No matter what is planned right now, if this isnât a PR disaster but the opposite and all the direct filers are gleeful about it, I think itâll be good enough publicity for them to broaden it to most any use case.
CPAs with a million times more insight may need to correct me there though.
I'm sure it'll support everything the irs accepts eventually
I'd be down with a system that literally just says, "This is what we have on record for you, would you like to file this or dispute it?" Considering they get copies of all your tax documents.
Why do you hate Black people?
That's uhhh... That's corporate America for you.
Yeah. Hey was your username previously (if abbreviated) SMCF?
Nope. It comes from an old Army nickname for mortarmen.
Ah OK! Thereâs another user with Maggoty in their name then. Yours is much much tamer :)
Congrats, Americans! It's a long time coming but still a huge deal and I'm happy for you all đ
For anyone who has filed with it, how much does this return differ from using a company? Is your total return the same or can a tax professional get you back a significant amount more?
You get as much back as you would if you knew what to claim.
If you have a simple return then it should be identical. There's only one way to fill out form 1040 correctly. Its unclear if this will walk you through itemizing or more obscure deductions like other places do.
I seem to recall an income cap so I might not be able to use it but my son will and that's a good thing.
Can someone with more knowledge than me explain how this might differ from Canada's system
It differs because more of it goes to the defense budget than any other country by a high order of magnitude.
I canât wait until this is available in my state!
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
Sadly it doesn't support reporting income from independent contracting (yet).
Ok so here in DC we don't get a voting representative, senators, or that free software other states get. Got it.
it's a soft launch of only 13 states. they'll roll it out to everyone next year probably
I don't understand the praise here. 1040EZ is about as simple as it gets, and it's free to file.
1040EZ hasn't been a thing since 2018.
a basic tax return then. don't be pedantic. it's a simple as following some fucking directions. i haven't filed a simple return in almost 20 years so EXCUSE my mistake. The IRS is cancer and shouldn't be praised in any way shape of form.
Who are you to call anyone or anything a cancer when youâre so obviously ignorant of basic information, the attitude comes across like an old man yelling at clouds.
Even if they were a cancer itâs not like it changes without improvement. Your entire premise is destructive and useless.
Keep defending the hand that holds you down.
Then figure it out because people have been talking about it for a long time.
No they haven't. Taxes are easy to do yourself if you're not a dullard.