Depends. He seems pretty out of it right now and I don't know how much he would really accomplish. He's also pretty old and unhealthy.
But if he comes back angry and the people around him are effective, then yeah we would start looking for other places to live. I'm not trying to live in a Russian-style handmaid's tale.
I don't think it's dramatic to suggest Trump may actually put an end to our democracy though. Another Lemmy commenter summed it up best. They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO. We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.
With Trump, we don't have that. All bets are off because he's an unhinged narcissist. He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now. And he would do it for money, for negative attention, or just because someone told him he couldn't. America has some pretty major faults but China and Russia are not ready to take the reigns. Say what you will about the West but we at least endeavor to protect human rights. I think anyone who isn't trying to build on the current Western peace is incredibly dangerous in a very scary way.
Everyone should read their Project 2025 plan, they plan on consolidating power by firing or arresting any non Right winger in power or employed by the government, among many other fascistic power consolidation wet dreams:
He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now.
Stabilizing the world is just flat out wrong. At best, the US has stabilized itself and a select few allies. Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan most recently, along with a whole bunch of countries in Central and South America over the last 100 years would probably feel quite strongly that the US has been a disruptive force for them.
As a devout lefty who thinks America and capitalism need a lot more checks and balances, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
When we talk peace, we are talking relative terms. And I suppose I should also add prosperity into the mix.
I think the West has enabled a period of relative peace and prosperity never before seen. And I think it's getting, overall, better every day. Technology and capitalism, for all their evils, have lifted billions out of poverty and saved billions of lives.
Unfortunately, that’s all come at a cost of destroying and destabilizing billions of lives. I’m not disagreeing that a lot of people have benefitted from that. Competition - which is what capitalism is when you distill it and ignore all the inside ball that corporations and governments play - generates new ideas and promotes the ones that generate the most capital. But it also leaves a lot of people behind. And for now let’s just ignore the idea that there could be anything else as noble as the generation of more capital.
In the US, wealth inequality is only getting worse, with homeless populations and food scarcity continuing to grow and things like access to healthcare and quality education on the decline. And there are areas of the world that have been radically destabilized by the US to retain that position of dominance and prosperity.
If you look for a nation with the current / recent, per capita record for ‘lifting people out of poverty’ you’d have to give the medal to China. Do I think the way they’ve done things over the last few decades is producing a healthy society? Nope. I’d much rather live in the US than in China. But I don’t think the US is producing a healthy society either. We’re all just screwed up in our own ways, fighting for resources and acting like our way of doing things is ok because it’s what we are indoctrinated into from a young age.
The US focuses on generating capital as a metric of success because it enables geopolitical dominance and prosperity for just enough people to keep the wheels rolling.
But that’s just my perspective.
I'm rather curious how you relativise a lot of the US' recent history. Sure, Iraq and Afghanistan weren't pillars of stability, but I think the balance comes down pretty hard against the US with Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations as well. Our continued support of Israel and Saudi Arabia isn't looking so hot either.
Then we've got military intervention in the Dominican Republic and support of Trujillo until he stopped being useful, installing the Pinochet regime after helping topple the government of Salvador Allende, support for the military dictatorship in Brazil, as well as backing dictatorships in Argentina.
Our colonization of the Philippines was pretty awful, as is our continued treatment of Puerto Rico as essentially a vacation spot and Caribbean ghetto.
You get the idea. Seriously, I'm hard pressed to think of an instance in the last century where the US has intervened on the international stage and actually has a credible claim to having done good with the exception of World War II.
The government has created and fought for stability for a small subset of monied interests and has largely left the rest of us to jump for whatever table scraps they deign to let fall to us plebs. As @Nokinori mentions, even domestically, things are increasingly coming undone at the seams and looking ready to get worse.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Absolutely
i'll worry about it if and when it happens. i have wasted too much time, energy and resources worrying and catastrophizing about things i cannot control.
Not a bad idea to consider a plan though. If you'd want to move away, that's a major decision that is best made through research and deliberation, not in a fearful rush to escape.
I’ll sigh, shake my head, and think, “That figures”. And then I’ll go to work, like every other day.
This but perhaps crippling depression as well.
This is the default answer
what else can we do in a country like this with the candidates and party system we have? it would be nice to have real elections and options.
Voting is important, I also like to think about other tangible ways to build power - like what is power? It's being able to eat, having a place to live, having healthcare, saying what I want, associating with who I want, deciding how I spend my time.
I think about how the Mondragon complex, probably the largest worker cooperative in the world, started in Franco's Spain, and turned one of the poorest regions into one of the wealthiest.
I'd like to think I would stay and work to gain more power for myself and my peers - I want to stay and join/start a worker cooperative. I want to see a massive ecosystem of worker owned enterprises, which will translate to tangible power. Getting organized means being better able to fight off the kind of oppression Trump promises.
Lose my last shred of faith in this country, mostly
Looool look at this guy, he still has some faith left
Kicking him out did restore a nonzero amount yes.
Take a shot for every comment saying "Move to Canada" :)
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
RIP, Lemminary.
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Go easy dude, you're gonna kill him.
I thought that was the point?
Just giving him a head start
Move to Canada
As much of a joke as it is, that's a real option for me. Won't pull the trigger on day one, but you bet your ass I'll be ready to go at a moments notice.
There are currently only 8 or 9 "move to Canada" comments; you'll need more before the number of shots is sure to kill you.
Oh yeah because it's that easy to just pack up and move to a country that doesn't want you.
Statistically, most people who pop off about moving to Canada won't have an easy time of it, but the two countries do share one of the world's longest land borders and have countless economic and cultural ties. There are undoubtedly thousands of people in the US who have citizenship or eligibility for work permits, along with some financial means.
I will have no issue imegrating, I have "an in" as well as a place to live already.
The border is only a 20 minute drive anyway.
The "doesn't want me" statement seems like your personal opinion, not objective reality.
Yah, if you have any skills and are financially stable, Canada is super down. They love people who contribute to society.
Or, ya know, you married one of em.
Exactly. I would've left this country years ago if it was that simple. I can't afford to vacation in Canada, let alone move there, and I live in a northern state.
It's completely understandable! I wouldn't want to be in the US either if I were American and Canada seem pretty chill in comparison.
Watch Democrats blame people they were actively hostile towards for not enthusiastically waiting for hours in the cold to vote for them.
Then watch the world's longest-running uninterrupted democracy with the world's largest military and the world's largest nuclear arsenal become a fascist dictatorship. Maybe I'll die quickly and have a chance to be envied.
Fix your messaging, Dems. Pretend he's a progressive and oppose him.
ackchtually russia has the most nukes
Honestly, just point to his examples of government overreach! Heck if Dems really wanted to hurt him, do some overreach that they want to do anyway and make sure that they thank the man, heck say without him this would be impossible and that if we don't take advantage of it someone else will!
Just go hard on red flag laws, just use those bad boys up on all of their opponents, and say "Trump was awful for a lot of things, but thank god he got some of the strongest anti gun laws on the books in decades, without him, we couldn't have gone after this dangerous far right militia, he really made this inevitable."
Just go hard on red flag laws,
Democrats don't "go hard" on anything.
The same plan I have every election, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
To prove our mousey worth
and overthrow the Earth.
Before the night is done,
our plan will be unfurled.
By the dawning of the sun,
we’ll take over the world.
Well, I've got some rope, a candlestick, a revolver, a lead pipe and a nice knife; I wanted to keep my options open.
I already moved. It's not just Trump that's the problem, and even if he loses in 2024, or does in office, the issues still will persist. America needs to figure out how to make the judicial system work properly and norms need to be codified. Vast swaths of the population need to change their culture of "us vs them".
I won't be going back, the way things work with Republicans, you can't just move to a blue state, you have to move out of the country.
Great solution
Usually I'd grab my bucket of popcorn and watch another 4 years of the shitshow that is US politics.
Unfortunately, this time the same kind of shitshow is happening across the pond in quite a few countries (not just the usual eastern ex-soviet states), including my country. Populist morons fueled by the Trump, Bolsonaro, Le pen, Orbán cookbook.
People are eating this up on social networks and voting for them. I feel it's going to get real nasty.
Yeah! What's so delightful about things is how the U.S. tends to kind of set the climate for the politics in the west. The nazi party here in Sweden wasn't doing bad per se, but after Trump's victory they skyrocketed! They became the second biggest party last election, beating out the milquetoast bourgeoisie for the first time ever.
Believe Italy has the same issue currently. Lovely stuff.
Mind you I'm not blaming the U.S., it's just that big headlines over there tends to colour ours too.
It's just a little bit of History repeating
Not just western countries, either. You even see countries like China and Russia devolving too, collecting power, raising to the poverty index to make it look like russians aren't starving, making term limits virtually indefinite, jailing opponents.
Only thing is that they've got a head start on making bad decisions, China since 2012, Russia since the 00s.
Voting.
Local. State. Federal. Like I always have. I also moved out of a "shithole" state in the words of our treasonous former president.
With China having a severe gender imbalance and a massive generation (age) imbalance, it's going to cause all sorts of problems for them soon. Big, big fucking problems. And Russia just had all their young men flee, die stupidly, or decide Russia might not be the best place after they've released shittons of violent offenders, lol. Russia's future looks dim at best. Iran isn't looking too healthy either.
So the bottom line is this: no matter where you go, you aren't outrunning a shift to a multipolar world, especially one where resources like fresh water and food will be getting more scarce as climate change fucks the world and countries get more desperate, particularly authoritarian ones that are losing a tenuous grip on their people. That shit always causes wars, because humans are too fucking stupid to prioritize science in any other context.
Countries with democracy and immigration and the means to defend themselves and their friends are your best bet. Our fate and your own fate are intrinsically linked because of that.
to continue to live my life
How, when being targeted, jailed or killed under fascism?
I would simply shoot anyone who attempted to do any of that to me or anyone else in my care. We should all be prepared to defend ourselves, rather than give in to oppression.
Set up monthly donations to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, volunteer as a PP escort, open up my (Illinois) home to women and families who need to travel for reproductive healthcare.
This isn't off the top of my head, my spouse and I discussed it years ago, before the previous election.
Hehehe PP escort.
I imagine a number of famous people will talk about how they're moving to Canada, and don't.
Same as I've been doing since he won last time. Stay in my more liberal home state, extend understanding to friends and relatives who live in conservative states, extend invitations to the few who might need to move to keep themselves safe. Keep donating and volunteering with the organizations I've been supporting.
I have a friend who is thinking about seeking asylum in the US. I have encouraged her to weigh her other options; there are other countries where she has friends and family that might be more welcoming to her. If Trump gets elected, I'm not sure she'll even have a viable path to the US.
continue being annoyed by the level of corruption and incompetence of the US ruling class while existing in a visibly collapsing empire.
Fortunate enough to also have EU citizenship, so I've already made arrangements to leave the country in that case. Will keep voting from overseas, though.
Inb4 voting from overseas becomes illegal as a result of some rage filled GOP bill about illegals
Republicans are trying their damnedest to make voting illegal and/or overly burdensome even within the United States, so good luck there.
A lot of countries have tax treaties with each other as long as they're in good standing with each other, so that people only need to pay tax in one country (in the case where one maintains citizenship in one country while working in another). Unless you're making a shit ton of money to the point you're subject to different rules, it's highly unlikely you'll be double taxed
Wish I could say that I'd move to another country, but realistically I can't afford that. I'd guess I'd live life as normal but I'd always be paranoid at the increased risk of violence against trans people.
Probably get sent to a concentration camp. Dunno if California will secede from the union to preserve human rights, if it comes between secession or letting the DHS collect all our immigrants and non-trad women.
Nah California won't leave. It is about power structure. Since leaving has no chance of success no one running things will go along with it.
Being an immigrant I'll likely have my plans made for me.
If it makes you feel better I have sheltered immigrants from deportation twice and since you never see one of anything in life there probably are more people like me out there.
Be a constant reminder to my neighbors to avoid authoritarianism. Continue to push for self and local community reliance. Keep pushing my local governments and organizations to remain or become more inclusive.
Something new though? Maybe support an inclusive civics focused militia near me, if for no other reason so that marginalized people can feel like they have a community that will really fight for them or at least help them defend themselves if things really get that bad.
Donations to the ACLU. They seem like the best bet for the hardest fight of preserving the rights of immigrants. Among all the other things, they have to defend against as well.
Continue living in not America. Continue, as an overseas voter, to vote for things I believe in. Do everything I can to get ranked choice to be a thing everywhere and otherwise eliminate the firat-past-the-post bullshit that exists today
Do everything I can to get ranked choice to be a thing everywhere and otherwise eliminate the firat-past-the-post bullshit that exists today
Would you do this part regardless of who wins?
Yes. The first-past-the-post and weird two-party thing going on in the US is awful and needs to be gone. There are potentially other solutions, but ranked-choice voting seems to be a good start. There are whole rabbitholes about the electoral college, proportional representation, and other things to get into, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet this morning.
Send him Big Macs every single day and wait for him to have a heart attack.
Buy a gun, I guess?
The time to buy a gun is before the fascists arrive at your door.
Don't forget to train too!
Why not go ahead and buy one today?
Keep working, drinking, and sleeping. Not much else to do no matter who wins.
My boyfriend is Swiss, and there's been a loose open conversation over where we'd want to end up settling long-term. A second Trump term would definitely add several points in the Switzerland column.
I'm a queer immigrant so flee. I'm not sticking around for whatever comes after that unless we somehow get a significant majority in Congress
Do so now before prices spike. Keep in mind, there is a high learning curve with firearms. Even the simple safety rules require practice to make them unbreakable habits.
There are 4 safety rules that if you follow you will never have an issue. If you can't follow these 4 simple rules, maybe rethink having a firearm.
Treat every firearm as if it is loaded. ...
Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. ...
Be certain of your target and what's beyond it. ...
Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
I'll add this, as simple as those rules are, they require practice. #1 is a great example. You want your actions to be habits, unbreakable.
Couple more rules at my camp when other people are around.
Everyone must be present and accounted for.
Make eye contact with each person so they know you're about to fire. No surprises.
Be certain each person in the group has their ears on. No surprise hearing loss.
While you're looking around, be certain no one else is handling a firearm foolishly. Reloading is fine.
It's a bit of a PITA playing range safety officer. I mostly like shooting alone. :)
How does it take practice to treat something with respect? All 4 of the rules I mentioned are time tested and industry standard. I was an NRA instructor for a number of years. There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head. Again, if you can't read, understand, and follow those 4 incredibly simple things, you're not mature enough, responsible enough, or ready to have a firearm. It's quite simple.
There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head.
To make them habits? Sounds like we agree. Talking about the rules is one thing. People practicing those rules under supervision is where we get results.
As an instructor, I know damn well you had to correct people from time to time. I've done it. That means our students were practicing, getting better.
I can teach my 8 and 10-yo kids the rules, get them to regurgitate them to me. But until we get on the range, I know one of 'em is going to try to flag me. Again, practice.
and follow those 4 incredibly simple things
LOL, that's why I don't go to a range anymore. Mine was private, only $150/yr., and no one acted foolish. But still, I want to relax and not have my head on a swivel.
Don't forget ammo, training, and proper storage
Start doing whatever I can to keep your conservatism out of canada
Bro, I got bad news for you, coming straight from Alberta...
As a Minnesotan... You guys got any room for another province? We've got this Minnesota nice thing, hot dish, and the mayo clinic.
Don't listen to them Canada, it's just a casserole with a disarming accent. Absorb Washington instead, we've got chicken teriyaki and won't talk your ear off.
Underground railroad for repressed minorities to escape.
Make sure I have enough meds and reach out to friends to make sure they're safe and are able to get their HRT.
Honestly I have no idea. I live in the midwest and I am rather poor, so I imagine I will just start hording canned food and glare at people through the curtains like usual
I would be surprised if he wins. It really feels like his time has passed. But if he does I will use resistbot to its fullest capacity.
I don’t think there will be a presidency after him if he does though. I think people generally underestimate the violence it will bring.
Not to mention, they are very used to making poor decisions (see: invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq) and also not fighting back when their elections are stolen or interfered with. (See: Brooks Brother Riot and Trump election)
Good luck dummies!
Youre right about the violence if he does, but I think its much more likely than anyone wants to admit. I'll be extremely and pleasently surprised if he doesnt win with the way the wind is blowing
Lettters to reps are valuable, in the "we got ten for and a hundred against" sense, but I would love to have more tangible ways to make a difference.
I wouldn't be surprised. He doesn't exactly have the strongest opponent. I like to look at prediction markets to get an idea of what the odds are, and it looks like the gamblers currently think there's only a 52% chance of a Democrat winning the presidency. But, it's really hard to tell what will happen right now. Trump, Biden, or both could die before the election. We may begin a recession. OPEC is cutting oil production, with some people hypothesizing it is to influence the U.S. election. Russia and other countries will likely ramp up disinformation like we've never seen before, powered by the new AI bots and deepfake technology.
Hurry and buy a new graphics card before the prices go crazy again.
Underrated answer. Feels like we see a lot of price fixing under that guy's watch.
Edit: I don't mean to minimize the damage that guy does. But I think there's value in remember that he'snobody's allly.
Don't forget to stock up on masks and toilet paper while you're at it.
Maybe be able to finally afford a house with all these people planning to leave the country. Other then that hunker down and deal with shit as it comes like always.
I'm working to set up connections to folks in Canada that will be willing to relocate LGBTQ folks across the border.
Kind of odd to ask because of its latitude. But are there any warmer places in Canada really? Does it snow a decent amount everywhere or are some areas different? I know this might be too niche but I figured I'd ask a most likely native.
Vancouver and Seattle have basically the same weather patterns. lots of rain, annoyingly muggy summers, and mild winters.
Source: vancouverite
If you're considering Canada, don't vote Conservative
I believe that they also live in houses in Canada. You won't be exposed to snow unless you go outside
I like to go outside and take walks easily without having to dress up a lot or worry about slipping
Anywhere near a large body of water is going to be quite temperate
Don't listen to this, it's a trick to try to get you to move to Thunder Bay!
We all understand he can in no way actually be allowed to retake that office again, correct? I don't give one flying fuck if he wins, or not. He cannot under any circumstances be allowed.
How is that going to work? January 6th two.. electric.. storming the capital...?
I was thinking something more along the lines of the Special Ops and Bin Laden.
I don't think that's a good idea.
Yeah, me neither, but it looks like our legal system has about 25% chance of holding him accountable. If it does, then I will be ecstatic.
I've been visiting English speaking countries and kind of scouting where might be a good option if America had a serious issue. Canada would be my first choice because of proximity and shared values. New Zealand #2, then probably UK or Ireland.
I'm a cybersecurity professional with a lot of experience and I hope that would be welcomed in most countries but idk. I don't want to move, and would stick around for a bit to see initially how things go but if it kicks right back to 2020's level of insanity I'm 100% out.
The braindrain will be noticeable. It feels a bit like all the famous Jewish scientists that Germany would have proudly claimed as citizens except for that Germany would have killed them before they accomplished anything.
Hopefully, this will be nothing like that. But Trump has supporters. It blows my mind, but they are numerous. In terms of polling, Trump's dictator talk isn't old news yet. I have some hope that polling might show that it spooked some supporters.
Just preempt some replies, please note when someone expresses "some hope", telling them that they're likely wrong isn't exactly insightful.
Fwiw it has spooked my traditionally conservative parents, they don’t follow politics much but as the GOP has moved further and further right it’s pretty much driven them away. So while anecdotal they have always sort of acted as the pulse of the nation (to me) for that demographic. I seriously don’t think he’ll win again but I would never bet on it.
Cybersecurity is definitely in demand in Canada but we are also going through a housing affordability crisis and generally our tech salaries are lower in compared with the US. You would almost certainly be taking a step back in standard of living unless you swing a remote work situation from a US employer.
I think I’d be taking a step back in any country besides the US, I think. In Canada the people are fantastic and hockey is everywhereso I think that makes up for it in a few ways . My honest only real concern is US instability also eventually affecting Canada too. So might make sense to be further away.
I don’t want to move though largely like my life in the US as is at the moment.
Hey, I also am (becoming) a CyberSecurity professional. What are some entry level positions I should go to with a degree?
Studying cybersecurity helps, but you're not likely to get a job in cybersecurity until you have had multiple years of experience in development in a software company, from my experience in the US in the tech industry.
I hope somebody directly within the cybersecurity field can recommend a specific career path, but my anecdotal experience is that you have to work a few years before you will be considered for something security related.
It's good to learn your security concepts, schooling should help with that. After that, I would gravitate towards learning the security around newer commercially viable but immature technology and seek positions around that area whether in security or not. To me, if I was just starting out I'd look towards AI and Machine Learning, which isn't a very unique answer but probably the correct one for the fastest advancement in this path. Learn the different types of models, learn what kind of attacks their susceptible to, the security controls and mitigation techniques for defending these systems. It changes frequently, pay attention to Github's trending section to see where the tech world's focus is as a decent barometer of where things are heading (not necessarily where things currently but going towards).
Overall security is needed everywhere so get a taste of a lot flavors and see which ones you like best, you'll likely be able to find a job there.
I’m gonna pack all my bags and change nothing about my life.
Same. Plan for the worst, but expect business as usual. Always a good idea to have preparations already made in the event that you need to gtfo on a moment's notice. With all the natural disasters that occur in my area, it's kind of a necessity, so I don't even need the excuse of "What if Trump does a Night of the Long Knives?" to have a bag ready to go.
Chances are I'll just be avoiding politics for four years so I won't have to listen to the daily gaffes, blunders, and scandals.
I'm praying for a convenient lightning bolt, or the human equivalent, to take him out. Honestly, a massive heart attack would do.
Just keep going about my daily life. The result of the election is not going to change where I live or where I work. The Federal Government doesn't have much of an impact on my day to day life, beyond federal laws and regulatory agencies. I don't see those changing in an (immediately) catastrophic way. Most of my day to day life is determined by my state and town government.
Well since I've been very vocally liberal and anti-Trump over the past 8 years or so, I suspect I'll end up dying in a labor camp.
I don't have the means to get out of the county beforehand or I'd already be out, and I think there's effectively no country that's going to be willing to take political refugees from the United States afterwords, so I'm pretty well fucked.
If you honestly think the US under Trump is going to put liberals in labor camps despite watching his whole first term flounder on anything that wasn't already galvinized by the GOPs platform I think you need to watch less sensationalized news.
He and the GOP have been shouting their intention to go full dictatorship for months now.
It's not sensationalized if its from the horse's mouth.
I think you're discrediting that there's a decent chance that Trump is at least going to try to turn the US into a dictatorship. I'm hoping any attempt will fail, but there's been weirder successes throughout history
I will legit try to find countries with constitutions and parliaments that I could relocate to to live and work. The American constitutional Republic will be over if Trump becomes President again.
He'll certainly start his retribution with the big fish of anti Trump people and organizations, but it won't take long for it to "trickle down" to everyday people as well.
I'm lucky enough that it's feasible for me to find work in my field outside the US. Others aren't so lucky.
Ireland's pretty decent if it comes to it. Culturally reasonably similar, English speaking and most importantly, not England.
Only messing, neighbours ;)
Live in denial while our country crumbles around us.
some of us are not allowed to vote so doing the same thing as the last election
hope people one day quit voting for one of the demopublicans and choose some third party
as an american dissident unable to vote it feels like trapped in a country that does not want us deciding things or having a voice of any kind just here to be a disposable warm body
yes it is like that rick and morty episode with the body theme park you know things are dying and rotting and falling apart around you but that is the extent of your powers unless someone on the outside intervenes
Why are you not allowed to vote?
Felony record probably
Being a sexy mofo should not be a crime, but here we are...
username checks out
If it happens and I'm still in this hell hole probably just die.
No joke- moving to Canada. Arrwngements are already made. We live 2-3 hours away as it is, so it wouldn’t be a huge change for us.
But at the same time, it also will be a huge change. You'll be reading about things happening in another country.
Right? Hopefully it won’t have to happen, but if America is willing to elect a twice impeached rapist that’s got almost 40 criminal indictments- then I have no intention remain a part of it.
A country only 2-3 hours away, which is not far enough...
Canada has oil, so either they will join the fascists or be subjugated by them.
In this case I am inclined to think it's a good thing, being able to move to another country, that's only 2 - 3 hours away. Even if it's technically the same thing, someone moving from Miami to the same city, would culturally feel like moving to another part of the world.
Same here. No healthcare, gun control, college, homes. For being the supposed “Best country on Earth “ it sure does suck ass.
Luckily I'm already out of the country but I don't think will go well if that happens.
Every now and then I have to remind myself that America was founded by religious nutjobs and colonized by industrialists.
Depends on what he does. Since I'm in the least likely demographic to be targeted (hmm, unless they start going through political groups I've been a member of), probably the same as I'm doing now. If it looks like there will be a civil war, I'd probably try to leave the country, but I guess that'd be too late, and I think a civil war is unlikely. I don't think many people would be willing to give their lives for... the Democratic party? I think the U.S. will become more like Russia (fake elections in red states [ensuring the Republican party the presidency and congress forever], more brutal police oppression, erosion of rights, opposition leaders falling out of windows, and encouragement of vigilante "justice" against whoever the "enemy" is at the time). I think protests and riots would be the most people would do, and they'd likely be met with increasingly deadly force.
Since covid, I make sure I keep a few months of non-perishables and water on hand in case of temporary supply chain disruptions, and I have plenty of wood to heat or cook with if needed. If there is a severe economic downturn (which is likely to happen in the unstable environment Trump would provide), and I couldn't find another well-paying job, I'd probably lose my home for not being able to pay my mortgage though.
I haven’t kept 3 months of supplies myself but I keep a list of people that do and that’s almost as good.
Lol. Yeah, I don't consider myself a "prepper," and am not preparing for collapse, or any violence really. Just temporary supply chain disruptions so I don't have to rely on others, the government, and perhaps help my neighbors if they're desperate enough to want my rice, beans, pasta, and canned food :) I've built up a 3 month supply of food over a year or so by just buying double of everything that I need, and when I notice I'm getting low on something, I buy quite a bit more. Water is from rainwater harvesting barrels that I normally use for watering my landscape plants and gardens in the summer.
I live in a very conservative place in the south where even the queer people are here pretty conservative hopefully he doesn't win... Didn't think I needed to spell it out until I remembered the people I live around so yeah I guess it makes sense 🥲
I plan to leave the country anyway. Shit’s getting too weird in the US.
Where do you plan to go and how do you plan to get a visa?
Same as if Biden wins in 2024.
Or, assuming that one of them has a heart attack or something before then, Nikki Haley or Kamala Harris or whoever.
Just die I guess
Part of me thinks we get what we deserve.
Except it's not we. The majority's vote is overruled by the electoral college.
The same shit I did today
Im not american but i would jump off a cliff if that happens
Continue to live my life. The president has much less to do with the daily lives of Americans than the media would lead you to believe. They represent only one of the three branches of government.
"The Chancellor has much less to do with the daily lives of Germans than the media would lead you to believe." -- Folks who died in concentration camps, probably
Three branches of government? I'm sure the unilateral executive theory won't have any problems here and "checks and balances" will happen. /s
I’ve been practicing my French for a reason. Not good enough to make a move to France yet but Canada or UK/Ireland with regular trips to France to work on it might be in the books.
It won’t be immediate, I’ll wait to see what happens but if the fascist shit keeps up I’m dipping.
You do know that you're probably studying Parisian french, and the Quebeckers don't speak that? They speak a dialect based on french from 400 years ago, that honestly sounds like a drunk German speaking french as a second language.
Lisbon, though we have some other ideas. We went through the process of research and consideration a few years ago and were seriously going to move. We didn't and are glad for that, and glad to have gone through that process in case we decide to leave.
To leave the country
As a Canadian I'm not sure what I would do for the next election if it is Trump vs Biden. I can't support someone who keeps supporting Israel after their actions in the last couple of months. But Trump literally said he will jail journalist and protesters and wants to invade mexico. I also feel like Trump would support Israel too .
Yeah... I feel like one of those is significantly fucking worse than the other. Almost like one is an abhorrent thing that the president has been forced into by decades of the US being closely tied with Israel and due to a truly psychotic amount of Israeli lobbying done in the States that could completely upend the election
Then you have the other...
The dude who has said he would lock up opponents, kill migrants, jail journalists, commit crimes against his own people, sterilize Americans, kill his own people, encourages acts of violence against innocent people and the disabled, revoke democracy, install fascism and take control of the planets largest military while being directly controlled by a foreign terrorist state and who has OPENLY said he supports Bibi multiple times.
I feel like one of those is SIGNIFICANTLY FUCKING WORSE.
This isn't a "Oh both sides suck and idk what to doooooo" situation. This is the best progressive president the US has had in decades versus Orange Hitler. Getting real sick of these takes that use exactly zero brain power. Anyone who makes them are either wildly uneducated in American politics, are a bad actor/troll, are a hateful person or is a moron.
Republicans have been vocal in support of Israel. I mean Lindsey Graham, a major trump backer, said Israel should completely level Gaza. People criticizing Biden and acting like Republicans would not be even worse regarding Palestine are not grounded in reality.
He did support Israel and would again, honestly this isn't something that any canidate likely to win would change.
Yay America.... 🙃
If trump actually planned to cut out a penny of israels budget AIPAC would eat him up, just like they do every other politician who forgets to kiss the ring. Since they're quiet you can assume they are fine with his candidacy
Do you like, not understand how party politics work?
Nothing in particular. I am already planning for a Christian Nationalism state. Might as well ask me if I am already leaving a building because of a smoking detector going off if I would do something different if a second smoke detector went off.
Be glad I'm not at the top of their list, and try to help my friends that are. Can't do much to sway the scared of nothing millions that will vote for him. So I'm looking for overseas jobs that pay relo, and I if I don't make it out, hunker down and hope there is a country left to salvage at the end.
Depends. He seems pretty out of it right now and I don't know how much he would really accomplish. He's also pretty old and unhealthy.
But if he comes back angry and the people around him are effective, then yeah we would start looking for other places to live. I'm not trying to live in a Russian-style handmaid's tale.
I don't think it's dramatic to suggest Trump may actually put an end to our democracy though. Another Lemmy commenter summed it up best. They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO. We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.
With Trump, we don't have that. All bets are off because he's an unhinged narcissist. He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now. And he would do it for money, for negative attention, or just because someone told him he couldn't. America has some pretty major faults but China and Russia are not ready to take the reigns. Say what you will about the West but we at least endeavor to protect human rights. I think anyone who isn't trying to build on the current Western peace is incredibly dangerous in a very scary way.
Everyone should read their Project 2025 plan, they plan on consolidating power by firing or arresting any non Right winger in power or employed by the government, among many other fascistic power consolidation wet dreams:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=The%20plan%20proposes%20slashing%20U.S.,departments%20of%20education%20and%20commerce.
https://www.project2025.org/
https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/project-2025
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision
https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2023/11/17/project-2025-democratic-doomsday/
https://www.advocate.com/news/project-2025-republicans-maga
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/project-2025-heritage-foundation-christian-nationalism-rcna103510
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/27/project-2025-dismantle-us-climate-policy-next-republican-president
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/16h9fqe/what_is_the_deal_with_project_2025/
I humbly request you post this in https://lemmy.cafe/c/benjamingetthemusket
Make the thread and I'll pin it
Stabilizing the world is just flat out wrong. At best, the US has stabilized itself and a select few allies. Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan most recently, along with a whole bunch of countries in Central and South America over the last 100 years would probably feel quite strongly that the US has been a disruptive force for them.
As a devout lefty who thinks America and capitalism need a lot more checks and balances, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
When we talk peace, we are talking relative terms. And I suppose I should also add prosperity into the mix.
I think the West has enabled a period of relative peace and prosperity never before seen. And I think it's getting, overall, better every day. Technology and capitalism, for all their evils, have lifted billions out of poverty and saved billions of lives.
Unfortunately, that’s all come at a cost of destroying and destabilizing billions of lives. I’m not disagreeing that a lot of people have benefitted from that. Competition - which is what capitalism is when you distill it and ignore all the inside ball that corporations and governments play - generates new ideas and promotes the ones that generate the most capital. But it also leaves a lot of people behind. And for now let’s just ignore the idea that there could be anything else as noble as the generation of more capital.
In the US, wealth inequality is only getting worse, with homeless populations and food scarcity continuing to grow and things like access to healthcare and quality education on the decline. And there are areas of the world that have been radically destabilized by the US to retain that position of dominance and prosperity.
If you look for a nation with the current / recent, per capita record for ‘lifting people out of poverty’ you’d have to give the medal to China. Do I think the way they’ve done things over the last few decades is producing a healthy society? Nope. I’d much rather live in the US than in China. But I don’t think the US is producing a healthy society either. We’re all just screwed up in our own ways, fighting for resources and acting like our way of doing things is ok because it’s what we are indoctrinated into from a young age.
The US focuses on generating capital as a metric of success because it enables geopolitical dominance and prosperity for just enough people to keep the wheels rolling.
But that’s just my perspective.
I'm rather curious how you relativise a lot of the US' recent history. Sure, Iraq and Afghanistan weren't pillars of stability, but I think the balance comes down pretty hard against the US with Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations as well. Our continued support of Israel and Saudi Arabia isn't looking so hot either.
Then we've got military intervention in the Dominican Republic and support of Trujillo until he stopped being useful, installing the Pinochet regime after helping topple the government of Salvador Allende, support for the military dictatorship in Brazil, as well as backing dictatorships in Argentina.
Our colonization of the Philippines was pretty awful, as is our continued treatment of Puerto Rico as essentially a vacation spot and Caribbean ghetto.
You get the idea. Seriously, I'm hard pressed to think of an instance in the last century where the US has intervened on the international stage and actually has a credible claim to having done good with the exception of World War II.
The government has created and fought for stability for a small subset of monied interests and has largely left the rest of us to jump for whatever table scraps they deign to let fall to us plebs. As @Nokinori mentions, even domestically, things are increasingly coming undone at the seams and looking ready to get worse.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Absolutely
i'll worry about it if and when it happens. i have wasted too much time, energy and resources worrying and catastrophizing about things i cannot control.
Not a bad idea to consider a plan though. If you'd want to move away, that's a major decision that is best made through research and deliberation, not in a fearful rush to escape.
What the fuck can I do? Just be even more depressed about the state of the country
Not everyone has the luxury of uprooting their lives when a fascist comes.
Yeah so many in the thread are like “duh I just moved, easy”
Yeah ok easy for you
LET'S BURN THIS MOTHER DOWN!
I’ll get the kerosene
If we make plans, and post them on the internet, people start throwing around words like "premeditated" and it just makes things harder.
I’ll sigh, shake my head, and think, “That figures”. And then I’ll go to work, like every other day.
This but perhaps crippling depression as well.
This is the default answer
what else can we do in a country like this with the candidates and party system we have? it would be nice to have real elections and options.
Voting is important, I also like to think about other tangible ways to build power - like what is power? It's being able to eat, having a place to live, having healthcare, saying what I want, associating with who I want, deciding how I spend my time.
I think about how the Mondragon complex, probably the largest worker cooperative in the world, started in Franco's Spain, and turned one of the poorest regions into one of the wealthiest.
I'd like to think I would stay and work to gain more power for myself and my peers - I want to stay and join/start a worker cooperative. I want to see a massive ecosystem of worker owned enterprises, which will translate to tangible power. Getting organized means being better able to fight off the kind of oppression Trump promises.
Lose my last shred of faith in this country, mostly
Looool look at this guy, he still has some faith left
Kicking him out did restore a nonzero amount yes.
Take a shot for every comment saying "Move to Canada" :)
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
RIP, Lemminary.
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Move to Canada
Go easy dude, you're gonna kill him.
I thought that was the point?
Just giving him a head start
Move to Canada
As much of a joke as it is, that's a real option for me. Won't pull the trigger on day one, but you bet your ass I'll be ready to go at a moments notice.
There are currently only 8 or 9 "move to Canada" comments; you'll need more before the number of shots is sure to kill you.
Oh yeah because it's that easy to just pack up and move to a country that doesn't want you.
Statistically, most people who pop off about moving to Canada won't have an easy time of it, but the two countries do share one of the world's longest land borders and have countless economic and cultural ties. There are undoubtedly thousands of people in the US who have citizenship or eligibility for work permits, along with some financial means.
I will have no issue imegrating, I have "an in" as well as a place to live already.
The border is only a 20 minute drive anyway.
The "doesn't want me" statement seems like your personal opinion, not objective reality.
Yah, if you have any skills and are financially stable, Canada is super down. They love people who contribute to society.
Or, ya know, you married one of em.
Exactly. I would've left this country years ago if it was that simple. I can't afford to vacation in Canada, let alone move there, and I live in a northern state.
It's completely understandable! I wouldn't want to be in the US either if I were American and Canada seem pretty chill in comparison.
Sashay to french canaday
You think you're... you're BETTER than me?! Huh?!
Watch Democrats blame people they were actively hostile towards for not enthusiastically waiting for hours in the cold to vote for them.
Then watch the world's longest-running uninterrupted democracy with the world's largest military and the world's largest nuclear arsenal become a fascist dictatorship. Maybe I'll die quickly and have a chance to be envied.
Fix your messaging, Dems. Pretend he's a progressive and oppose him.
ackchtually russia has the most nukes
Honestly, just point to his examples of government overreach! Heck if Dems really wanted to hurt him, do some overreach that they want to do anyway and make sure that they thank the man, heck say without him this would be impossible and that if we don't take advantage of it someone else will!
Just go hard on red flag laws, just use those bad boys up on all of their opponents, and say "Trump was awful for a lot of things, but thank god he got some of the strongest anti gun laws on the books in decades, without him, we couldn't have gone after this dangerous far right militia, he really made this inevitable."
Democrats don't "go hard" on anything.
The same plan I have every election, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
To prove our mousey worth
and overthrow the Earth.
Before the night is done,
our plan will be unfurled.
By the dawning of the sun,
we’ll take over the world.
Well, I've got some rope, a candlestick, a revolver, a lead pipe and a nice knife; I wanted to keep my options open.
We playing Clue?! I'll be Prof. Plum!
I'm Colonel Mustard!
A typical Fallout loot inventory
How does one off themself with a candlestick
I already moved. It's not just Trump that's the problem, and even if he loses in 2024, or does in office, the issues still will persist. America needs to figure out how to make the judicial system work properly and norms need to be codified. Vast swaths of the population need to change their culture of "us vs them".
I won't be going back, the way things work with Republicans, you can't just move to a blue state, you have to move out of the country.
Great solution
Usually I'd grab my bucket of popcorn and watch another 4 years of the shitshow that is US politics.
Unfortunately, this time the same kind of shitshow is happening across the pond in quite a few countries (not just the usual eastern ex-soviet states), including my country. Populist morons fueled by the Trump, Bolsonaro, Le pen, Orbán cookbook.
People are eating this up on social networks and voting for them. I feel it's going to get real nasty.
Yeah! What's so delightful about things is how the U.S. tends to kind of set the climate for the politics in the west. The nazi party here in Sweden wasn't doing bad per se, but after Trump's victory they skyrocketed! They became the second biggest party last election, beating out the milquetoast bourgeoisie for the first time ever.
Believe Italy has the same issue currently. Lovely stuff.
Mind you I'm not blaming the U.S., it's just that big headlines over there tends to colour ours too.
It's just a little bit of History repeating
Not just western countries, either. You even see countries like China and Russia devolving too, collecting power, raising to the poverty index to make it look like russians aren't starving, making term limits virtually indefinite, jailing opponents.
Only thing is that they've got a head start on making bad decisions, China since 2012, Russia since the 00s.
Voting.
Local. State. Federal. Like I always have. I also moved out of a "shithole" state in the words of our treasonous former president.
With China having a severe gender imbalance and a massive generation (age) imbalance, it's going to cause all sorts of problems for them soon. Big, big fucking problems. And Russia just had all their young men flee, die stupidly, or decide Russia might not be the best place after they've released shittons of violent offenders, lol. Russia's future looks dim at best. Iran isn't looking too healthy either.
So the bottom line is this: no matter where you go, you aren't outrunning a shift to a multipolar world, especially one where resources like fresh water and food will be getting more scarce as climate change fucks the world and countries get more desperate, particularly authoritarian ones that are losing a tenuous grip on their people. That shit always causes wars, because humans are too fucking stupid to prioritize science in any other context.
Countries with democracy and immigration and the means to defend themselves and their friends are your best bet. Our fate and your own fate are intrinsically linked because of that.
to continue to live my life
How, when being targeted, jailed or killed under fascism?
I would simply shoot anyone who attempted to do any of that to me or anyone else in my care. We should all be prepared to defend ourselves, rather than give in to oppression.
#iamverybadass
Set up monthly donations to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, volunteer as a PP escort, open up my (Illinois) home to women and families who need to travel for reproductive healthcare.
This isn't off the top of my head, my spouse and I discussed it years ago, before the previous election.
Hehehe PP escort.
I imagine a number of famous people will talk about how they're moving to Canada, and don't.
Same as I've been doing since he won last time. Stay in my more liberal home state, extend understanding to friends and relatives who live in conservative states, extend invitations to the few who might need to move to keep themselves safe. Keep donating and volunteering with the organizations I've been supporting.
I have a friend who is thinking about seeking asylum in the US. I have encouraged her to weigh her other options; there are other countries where she has friends and family that might be more welcoming to her. If Trump gets elected, I'm not sure she'll even have a viable path to the US.
The same thing I do after every election, cringe for another four years.
If Trump wins, he's not stepping down after 4 years. He (and his kind) are staying in power for good.
continue being annoyed by the level of corruption and incompetence of the US ruling class while existing in a visibly collapsing empire.
Fortunate enough to also have EU citizenship, so I've already made arrangements to leave the country in that case. Will keep voting from overseas, though.
Inb4 voting from overseas becomes illegal as a result of some rage filled GOP bill about illegals
Republicans are trying their damnedest to make voting illegal and/or overly burdensome even within the United States, so good luck there.
Its a time honored american tradition to shoot someone wearing red clothing thats trying to tell everyone what to do
Not Santa!
Idk I hear they have alters to him being put up in government buildings
Nothing I can do. Just do my best to finish out at college (assuming financial aid is still a thing) and move out of the country ASAP.
Move out of the country, *and still have to pay taxes 😂
Could give up your citizenship
A lot of countries have tax treaties with each other as long as they're in good standing with each other, so that people only need to pay tax in one country (in the case where one maintains citizenship in one country while working in another). Unless you're making a shit ton of money to the point you're subject to different rules, it's highly unlikely you'll be double taxed
Wish I could say that I'd move to another country, but realistically I can't afford that. I'd guess I'd live life as normal but I'd always be paranoid at the increased risk of violence against trans people.
Probably get sent to a concentration camp. Dunno if California will secede from the union to preserve human rights, if it comes between secession or letting the DHS collect all our immigrants and non-trad women.
Nah California won't leave. It is about power structure. Since leaving has no chance of success no one running things will go along with it.
Being an immigrant I'll likely have my plans made for me.
If it makes you feel better I have sheltered immigrants from deportation twice and since you never see one of anything in life there probably are more people like me out there.
Be a constant reminder to my neighbors to avoid authoritarianism. Continue to push for self and local community reliance. Keep pushing my local governments and organizations to remain or become more inclusive.
Something new though? Maybe support an inclusive civics focused militia near me, if for no other reason so that marginalized people can feel like they have a community that will really fight for them or at least help them defend themselves if things really get that bad.
Donations to the ACLU. They seem like the best bet for the hardest fight of preserving the rights of immigrants. Among all the other things, they have to defend against as well.
Continue living in not America. Continue, as an overseas voter, to vote for things I believe in. Do everything I can to get ranked choice to be a thing everywhere and otherwise eliminate the firat-past-the-post bullshit that exists today
Would you do this part regardless of who wins?
Yes. The first-past-the-post and weird two-party thing going on in the US is awful and needs to be gone. There are potentially other solutions, but ranked-choice voting seems to be a good start. There are whole rabbitholes about the electoral college, proportional representation, and other things to get into, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet this morning.
Send him Big Macs every single day and wait for him to have a heart attack.
Buy a gun, I guess?
The time to buy a gun is before the fascists arrive at your door.
Don't forget to train too!
Why not go ahead and buy one today?
Keep working, drinking, and sleeping. Not much else to do no matter who wins.
My boyfriend is Swiss, and there's been a loose open conversation over where we'd want to end up settling long-term. A second Trump term would definitely add several points in the Switzerland column.
I'm a queer immigrant so flee. I'm not sticking around for whatever comes after that unless we somehow get a significant majority in Congress
Win or lose we're buying guns.
Do so now before prices spike. Keep in mind, there is a high learning curve with firearms. Even the simple safety rules require practice to make them unbreakable habits.
There are 4 safety rules that if you follow you will never have an issue. If you can't follow these 4 simple rules, maybe rethink having a firearm.
Treat every firearm as if it is loaded. ...
Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. ...
Be certain of your target and what's beyond it. ...
Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
I'll add this, as simple as those rules are, they require practice. #1 is a great example. You want your actions to be habits, unbreakable.
Couple more rules at my camp when other people are around.
It's a bit of a PITA playing range safety officer. I mostly like shooting alone. :)
How does it take practice to treat something with respect? All 4 of the rules I mentioned are time tested and industry standard. I was an NRA instructor for a number of years. There's a reason these 4 rules are drilled into everyone's head. Again, if you can't read, understand, and follow those 4 incredibly simple things, you're not mature enough, responsible enough, or ready to have a firearm. It's quite simple.
To make them habits? Sounds like we agree. Talking about the rules is one thing. People practicing those rules under supervision is where we get results.
As an instructor, I know damn well you had to correct people from time to time. I've done it. That means our students were practicing, getting better.
I can teach my 8 and 10-yo kids the rules, get them to regurgitate them to me. But until we get on the range, I know one of 'em is going to try to flag me. Again, practice.
LOL, that's why I don't go to a range anymore. Mine was private, only $150/yr., and no one acted foolish. But still, I want to relax and not have my head on a swivel.
Don't forget ammo, training, and proper storage
Start doing whatever I can to keep your conservatism out of canada
Bro, I got bad news for you, coming straight from Alberta...
As a Minnesotan... You guys got any room for another province? We've got this Minnesota nice thing, hot dish, and the mayo clinic.
Don't listen to them Canada, it's just a casserole with a disarming accent. Absorb Washington instead, we've got chicken teriyaki and won't talk your ear off.
Underground railroad for repressed minorities to escape.
Make sure I have enough meds and reach out to friends to make sure they're safe and are able to get their HRT.
Honestly I have no idea. I live in the midwest and I am rather poor, so I imagine I will just start hording canned food and glare at people through the curtains like usual
I would be surprised if he wins. It really feels like his time has passed. But if he does I will use resistbot to its fullest capacity.
I don’t think there will be a presidency after him if he does though. I think people generally underestimate the violence it will bring.
Not to mention, they are very used to making poor decisions (see: invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq) and also not fighting back when their elections are stolen or interfered with. (See: Brooks Brother Riot and Trump election)
Good luck dummies!
Youre right about the violence if he does, but I think its much more likely than anyone wants to admit. I'll be extremely and pleasently surprised if he doesnt win with the way the wind is blowing
TIL about resistbot
Same, link for anyone interested
Lettters to reps are valuable, in the "we got ten for and a hundred against" sense, but I would love to have more tangible ways to make a difference.
I wouldn't be surprised. He doesn't exactly have the strongest opponent. I like to look at prediction markets to get an idea of what the odds are, and it looks like the gamblers currently think there's only a 52% chance of a Democrat winning the presidency. But, it's really hard to tell what will happen right now. Trump, Biden, or both could die before the election. We may begin a recession. OPEC is cutting oil production, with some people hypothesizing it is to influence the U.S. election. Russia and other countries will likely ramp up disinformation like we've never seen before, powered by the new AI bots and deepfake technology.
Hurry and buy a new graphics card before the prices go crazy again.
Underrated answer. Feels like we see a lot of price fixing under that guy's watch.
Edit: I don't mean to minimize the damage that guy does. But I think there's value in remember that he'snobody's allly.
Don't forget to stock up on masks and toilet paper while you're at it.
Maybe be able to finally afford a house with all these people planning to leave the country. Other then that hunker down and deal with shit as it comes like always.
I'm working to set up connections to folks in Canada that will be willing to relocate LGBTQ folks across the border.
Kind of odd to ask because of its latitude. But are there any warmer places in Canada really? Does it snow a decent amount everywhere or are some areas different? I know this might be too niche but I figured I'd ask a most likely native.
Vancouver and Seattle have basically the same weather patterns. lots of rain, annoyingly muggy summers, and mild winters.
Source: vancouverite
If you're considering Canada, don't vote Conservative
I believe that they also live in houses in Canada. You won't be exposed to snow unless you go outside
I like to go outside and take walks easily without having to dress up a lot or worry about slipping
Anywhere near a large body of water is going to be quite temperate
Don't listen to this, it's a trick to try to get you to move to Thunder Bay!
We all understand he can in no way actually be allowed to retake that office again, correct? I don't give one flying fuck if he wins, or not. He cannot under any circumstances be allowed.
How is that going to work? January 6th two.. electric.. storming the capital...?
I was thinking something more along the lines of the Special Ops and Bin Laden.
I don't think that's a good idea.
Yeah, me neither, but it looks like our legal system has about 25% chance of holding him accountable. If it does, then I will be ecstatic.
I've been visiting English speaking countries and kind of scouting where might be a good option if America had a serious issue. Canada would be my first choice because of proximity and shared values. New Zealand #2, then probably UK or Ireland.
I'm a cybersecurity professional with a lot of experience and I hope that would be welcomed in most countries but idk. I don't want to move, and would stick around for a bit to see initially how things go but if it kicks right back to 2020's level of insanity I'm 100% out.
The braindrain will be noticeable. It feels a bit like all the famous Jewish scientists that Germany would have proudly claimed as citizens except for that Germany would have killed them before they accomplished anything.
Hopefully, this will be nothing like that. But Trump has supporters. It blows my mind, but they are numerous. In terms of polling, Trump's dictator talk isn't old news yet. I have some hope that polling might show that it spooked some supporters.
Just preempt some replies, please note when someone expresses "some hope", telling them that they're likely wrong isn't exactly insightful.
Fwiw it has spooked my traditionally conservative parents, they don’t follow politics much but as the GOP has moved further and further right it’s pretty much driven them away. So while anecdotal they have always sort of acted as the pulse of the nation (to me) for that demographic. I seriously don’t think he’ll win again but I would never bet on it.
Cybersecurity is definitely in demand in Canada but we are also going through a housing affordability crisis and generally our tech salaries are lower in compared with the US. You would almost certainly be taking a step back in standard of living unless you swing a remote work situation from a US employer.
I think I’d be taking a step back in any country besides the US, I think. In Canada the people are fantastic and hockey is everywhereso I think that makes up for it in a few ways . My honest only real concern is US instability also eventually affecting Canada too. So might make sense to be further away.
I don’t want to move though largely like my life in the US as is at the moment.
Hey, I also am (becoming) a CyberSecurity professional. What are some entry level positions I should go to with a degree?
Studying cybersecurity helps, but you're not likely to get a job in cybersecurity until you have had multiple years of experience in development in a software company, from my experience in the US in the tech industry.
I hope somebody directly within the cybersecurity field can recommend a specific career path, but my anecdotal experience is that you have to work a few years before you will be considered for something security related.
It's good to learn your security concepts, schooling should help with that. After that, I would gravitate towards learning the security around newer commercially viable but immature technology and seek positions around that area whether in security or not. To me, if I was just starting out I'd look towards AI and Machine Learning, which isn't a very unique answer but probably the correct one for the fastest advancement in this path. Learn the different types of models, learn what kind of attacks their susceptible to, the security controls and mitigation techniques for defending these systems. It changes frequently, pay attention to Github's trending section to see where the tech world's focus is as a decent barometer of where things are heading (not necessarily where things currently but going towards).
Overall security is needed everywhere so get a taste of a lot flavors and see which ones you like best, you'll likely be able to find a job there.
I’m gonna pack all my bags and change nothing about my life.
Same. Plan for the worst, but expect business as usual. Always a good idea to have preparations already made in the event that you need to gtfo on a moment's notice. With all the natural disasters that occur in my area, it's kind of a necessity, so I don't even need the excuse of "What if Trump does a Night of the Long Knives?" to have a bag ready to go.
Chances are I'll just be avoiding politics for four years so I won't have to listen to the daily gaffes, blunders, and scandals.
I'm praying for a convenient lightning bolt, or the human equivalent, to take him out. Honestly, a massive heart attack would do.
Just keep going about my daily life. The result of the election is not going to change where I live or where I work. The Federal Government doesn't have much of an impact on my day to day life, beyond federal laws and regulatory agencies. I don't see those changing in an (immediately) catastrophic way. Most of my day to day life is determined by my state and town government.
Well since I've been very vocally liberal and anti-Trump over the past 8 years or so, I suspect I'll end up dying in a labor camp.
I don't have the means to get out of the county beforehand or I'd already be out, and I think there's effectively no country that's going to be willing to take political refugees from the United States afterwords, so I'm pretty well fucked.
If you honestly think the US under Trump is going to put liberals in labor camps despite watching his whole first term flounder on anything that wasn't already galvinized by the GOPs platform I think you need to watch less sensationalized news.
He and the GOP have been shouting their intention to go full dictatorship for months now.
It's not sensationalized if its from the horse's mouth.
I think you're discrediting that there's a decent chance that Trump is at least going to try to turn the US into a dictatorship. I'm hoping any attempt will fail, but there's been weirder successes throughout history
I will legit try to find countries with constitutions and parliaments that I could relocate to to live and work. The American constitutional Republic will be over if Trump becomes President again.
He'll certainly start his retribution with the big fish of anti Trump people and organizations, but it won't take long for it to "trickle down" to everyday people as well.
I'm lucky enough that it's feasible for me to find work in my field outside the US. Others aren't so lucky.
Ireland's pretty decent if it comes to it. Culturally reasonably similar, English speaking and most importantly, not England.
Only messing, neighbours ;)
Live in denial while our country crumbles around us.
some of us are not allowed to vote so doing the same thing as the last election
hope people one day quit voting for one of the demopublicans and choose some third party
as an american dissident unable to vote it feels like trapped in a country that does not want us deciding things or having a voice of any kind just here to be a disposable warm body
yes it is like that rick and morty episode with the body theme park you know things are dying and rotting and falling apart around you but that is the extent of your powers unless someone on the outside intervenes
Why are you not allowed to vote?
Felony record probably
Being a sexy mofo should not be a crime, but here we are...
username checks out
If it happens and I'm still in this hell hole probably just die.
No joke- moving to Canada. Arrwngements are already made. We live 2-3 hours away as it is, so it wouldn’t be a huge change for us.
But at the same time, it also will be a huge change. You'll be reading about things happening in another country.
Right? Hopefully it won’t have to happen, but if America is willing to elect a twice impeached rapist that’s got almost 40 criminal indictments- then I have no intention remain a part of it.
A country only 2-3 hours away, which is not far enough...
Canada has oil, so either they will join the fascists or be subjugated by them.
In this case I am inclined to think it's a good thing, being able to move to another country, that's only 2 - 3 hours away. Even if it's technically the same thing, someone moving from Miami to the same city, would culturally feel like moving to another part of the world.
Same here. No healthcare, gun control, college, homes. For being the supposed “Best country on Earth “ it sure does suck ass.
Organize more and harder.
Luckily I'm already out of the country but I don't think will go well if that happens.
Every now and then I have to remind myself that America was founded by religious nutjobs and colonized by industrialists.
Depends on what he does. Since I'm in the least likely demographic to be targeted (hmm, unless they start going through political groups I've been a member of), probably the same as I'm doing now. If it looks like there will be a civil war, I'd probably try to leave the country, but I guess that'd be too late, and I think a civil war is unlikely. I don't think many people would be willing to give their lives for... the Democratic party? I think the U.S. will become more like Russia (fake elections in red states [ensuring the Republican party the presidency and congress forever], more brutal police oppression, erosion of rights, opposition leaders falling out of windows, and encouragement of vigilante "justice" against whoever the "enemy" is at the time). I think protests and riots would be the most people would do, and they'd likely be met with increasingly deadly force.
Since covid, I make sure I keep a few months of non-perishables and water on hand in case of temporary supply chain disruptions, and I have plenty of wood to heat or cook with if needed. If there is a severe economic downturn (which is likely to happen in the unstable environment Trump would provide), and I couldn't find another well-paying job, I'd probably lose my home for not being able to pay my mortgage though.
I haven’t kept 3 months of supplies myself but I keep a list of people that do and that’s almost as good.
Lol. Yeah, I don't consider myself a "prepper," and am not preparing for collapse, or any violence really. Just temporary supply chain disruptions so I don't have to rely on others, the government, and perhaps help my neighbors if they're desperate enough to want my rice, beans, pasta, and canned food :) I've built up a 3 month supply of food over a year or so by just buying double of everything that I need, and when I notice I'm getting low on something, I buy quite a bit more. Water is from rainwater harvesting barrels that I normally use for watering my landscape plants and gardens in the summer.
I live in a very conservative place in the south where even the queer people are here pretty conservative hopefully he doesn't win... Didn't think I needed to spell it out until I remembered the people I live around so yeah I guess it makes sense 🥲
I plan to leave the country anyway. Shit’s getting too weird in the US.
Where do you plan to go and how do you plan to get a visa?
Same as if Biden wins in 2024.
Or, assuming that one of them has a heart attack or something before then, Nikki Haley or Kamala Harris or whoever.
Just die I guess
Part of me thinks we get what we deserve.
Except it's not we. The majority's vote is overruled by the electoral college.
The same shit I did today
Im not american but i would jump off a cliff if that happens
Continue to live my life. The president has much less to do with the daily lives of Americans than the media would lead you to believe. They represent only one of the three branches of government.
"The Chancellor has much less to do with the daily lives of Germans than the media would lead you to believe." -- Folks who died in concentration camps, probably
Three branches of government? I'm sure the unilateral executive theory won't have any problems here and "checks and balances" will happen. /s
I’ve been practicing my French for a reason. Not good enough to make a move to France yet but Canada or UK/Ireland with regular trips to France to work on it might be in the books.
It won’t be immediate, I’ll wait to see what happens but if the fascist shit keeps up I’m dipping.
Good luck finding housing in Canada, bud.
You do know that you're probably studying Parisian french, and the Quebeckers don't speak that? They speak a dialect based on french from 400 years ago, that honestly sounds like a drunk German speaking french as a second language.
Lisbon, though we have some other ideas. We went through the process of research and consideration a few years ago and were seriously going to move. We didn't and are glad for that, and glad to have gone through that process in case we decide to leave.
To leave the country
As a Canadian I'm not sure what I would do for the next election if it is Trump vs Biden. I can't support someone who keeps supporting Israel after their actions in the last couple of months. But Trump literally said he will jail journalist and protesters and wants to invade mexico. I also feel like Trump would support Israel too .
Yeah... I feel like one of those is significantly fucking worse than the other. Almost like one is an abhorrent thing that the president has been forced into by decades of the US being closely tied with Israel and due to a truly psychotic amount of Israeli lobbying done in the States that could completely upend the election
Then you have the other...
The dude who has said he would lock up opponents, kill migrants, jail journalists, commit crimes against his own people, sterilize Americans, kill his own people, encourages acts of violence against innocent people and the disabled, revoke democracy, install fascism and take control of the planets largest military while being directly controlled by a foreign terrorist state and who has OPENLY said he supports Bibi multiple times.
I feel like one of those is SIGNIFICANTLY FUCKING WORSE.
This isn't a "Oh both sides suck and idk what to doooooo" situation. This is the best progressive president the US has had in decades versus Orange Hitler. Getting real sick of these takes that use exactly zero brain power. Anyone who makes them are either wildly uneducated in American politics, are a bad actor/troll, are a hateful person or is a moron.
Republicans have been vocal in support of Israel. I mean Lindsey Graham, a major trump backer, said Israel should completely level Gaza. People criticizing Biden and acting like Republicans would not be even worse regarding Palestine are not grounded in reality.
He did support Israel and would again, honestly this isn't something that any canidate likely to win would change.
Yay America.... 🙃
If trump actually planned to cut out a penny of israels budget AIPAC would eat him up, just like they do every other politician who forgets to kiss the ring. Since they're quiet you can assume they are fine with his candidacy
Do you like, not understand how party politics work?
As a Canadian, you should maybe think about how bad it could get for Canada if Trump is elected.
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Build a wall around Detroit and put up a sign "No Trumps allowed"
Gotta be careful with that approach though, cause they'd still be allowed just one Trump.
They let in Trump Glumplich.
"Uh-hyuck."
I already left the US with no plans on living there again if I can make it work. So nothing would change with my life plans.
I'd love to leave, but it seems like citizenship elsewhere is hard. Where did you end up going?
Avoid news outlets
Canada.
First, read the comments while thinking most are ignorant of the consequences.
I think ill sit at the foot of the stairs.
He won't win. By honest means anyway. If we rollover and let him cheat his way into power we deserve what we get.
How are you going to stop them from cheating?
By making them double pinkie promise not to cheat.
Phew, I thought I was actually going to have to go out and vote for a second there!
Consider renouncing my US citizenship? I've already left.
Will the us even let you? I heard it was difficult. You can't stop giving the us money even as an expat right?
It is - and I haven't even looked into it. Things will have to get seriously bad before I go that hard.
Buddy if you figure it out let me know so we can shake our fists at the clouds together.
I am leaving and trying to convince as many of my sane family members to do the same. I dont want to be here for the inevitable violence.
General strike, then the woodchippers if still need
Nothing in particular. I am already planning for a Christian Nationalism state. Might as well ask me if I am already leaving a building because of a smoking detector going off if I would do something different if a second smoke detector went off.
Be glad I'm not at the top of their list, and try to help my friends that are. Can't do much to sway the scared of nothing millions that will vote for him. So I'm looking for overseas jobs that pay relo, and I if I don't make it out, hunker down and hope there is a country left to salvage at the end.