Trump Voters Trust Ex-President More Than Their Family and Friends: Poll

Pure brain rot, Jesus Christ.

They prefer Trump over HIM, too.

What does an emo band from the mid 2000s have to do with it

Literally. You can't blame this on people of faith any more...

If you told me 10 years ago Donald Fucking Trump would be the head of the largest American cult of all time...

Just... What the fuck guys? What the actual fuck.

The only way you can control people is to lie to them.

and...

If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.

-- L. Don Trumppard

At least Hubbard could form a complete sentence.

That part is genuinely the most baffling part to me. Like, I can see why somebody would fall into the cult of a really charismatic leader, a great public speaker that gets to your emotions etc.

But I can't decipher half the shit that man says. He's not just incapable of forming a proper sentence with a point, but he also has a terrible speaking voice, making his incoherent ramblings even harder to understand when not transcribed.

He says the offensive stuff that's been repressed for 60 years on the political stage. Trump could use the N-word with a hard R and his polls would go up.

His transcribes are incoherent. His speeches are like listening to music. You don't even know all the words, but you get the feeling. That's all they are looking for.

"Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible."

...for example.

A verbal masterpiece. One for the history books.

Japanese translators hate him!

No, really, they hate him.

One for the history books. Right next to the Declaration of Independence.

It does sound like some of the boomers I know when they just talk. Like my mom will ramble on like that. My friend's mom, too.

Like listening to Rob Zombie

Clinton is a great example. Great speaker, knew everyone's name, talked in broad generalities. He and Obama are two of the best republican presidents of modern times.

obama was republican???

I'm from the future year 3023, we have cloned Sylvester Stallone and genetically modified him to somehow have an even harder to discern speech pattern than he has in your time. He is our great leader, bow before your incoherent God!!

Because America has spent decades elevating ignorance to be the highest virtue. Donald Trump is the end-point of American culture. He's what everything's been leading to.

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He said in the 1980s he considered running as a democrat.

Maybe they're one of those suicide cults?

Let’s hope.

You could have told me 40 years ago and I would have believed it instantly. Ronald fucking Reagan.

Fucking. Morons.

Literal fascists.

If only Smedly Butler had told us.

This is absolutely grade A batshit crazy, not just your average dystopian batshit crazy.

All the lead poisoning is getting into the boomer's reasoning and reading comprehension skills.

It's advanced batshit crazy

You don't believe in God? This is him, he came back.

I mean, if you read the Bible, especially the old testament, the Abrahamic God basically acts like a spoiled toddler. It tracks.

Will Eric die for our sins then?

I don't think Ivana was a virgin.

She could say she was and a substantial minority would believe it hook line and sinker.

Not the smartest bunch. Unfortunately, that bunch seems to encompass 30-40 percent of the American population.

Half of all people are dumber than average.

Half are dumber than the median, not the average (although they're probably close)

There are different types of average, median being one of them. What you are thinking of as the average, is probably the mean. Median, mean and mode are all types of average.

Weirdly the mean statistic says that we are all stupid. It also says we have ugly shoes for some reason.

That's just plain mean! Bad statistic!

Trump has made a great litmus test for shitty humans. They even wear hats so we don't have to waste our time trying to find out their beliefs through dialogue.

I feel like there's gotta be some really smart outliers skewing that average

Half of all people are dumber than the median. I am assuming the mean is actually higher than the median so chances are way more than half of all people are dumber than what people normally think of when they think average.

I mean, I know this is probably a joke but you're not wrong. There's only one average person, everyone else is either above or below the metric.

https://i.imgflip.com/1bb65j.jpg

A lot of words to say CULT

My father is one of them. Because of his idiotic glorification and idol worship of trump, my family has told him to fuck off. Haven’t talked to him for almost 3 years now. He even believed the big lie

Pretty much the same for my family. My parents were always hard right conspiracy types but it used to be that they still had something redeeming about them. I don't like to remember the Thanksgiving Dinner of 2009, the last time we got together.

Hey mom I am dating a girl and it is getting kinda serious. Also I finished that engineering degree and loving working in a big city. Plus you know I flew out here to see you guys. Can we maybe talk about something besides Obama being a Satan Muslim for like a minute? No?

same shit happened with my biological half-sister. i drove 16 hrs one-way to visit her. what does she want to talk about? making fun of transgenered people. i left early. never again will i visit her. i rather go to the beach.

My sister called me today, and I didn't answer because I was at the beach. I said it. I meant it.

Yeah, tore my family apart too. So bad now that I'm pretty certain it's irrepairable. Guess there was a lot of underlying issues but there always is with family right? This shit really just scratched the scab off and the pus came pouring out. Still though, I think family is fragile in many cases and you just make it work, but when something this polarizing comes around it can shift the balance enough to start a casastrophic cascade. The GOP is an ice-9 motherfucker right now. They turn everything they touch into complete shit.

I’ve found political hatred is actually one of the worst traps to fall into. Personally I thought some of obama’s policies were good, although implemented incorrectly. I was hoping trump would be similar, but he turned out the complete opposite. If it doesn’t involve making the rich richer he didn’t want anything to do with it.

That's really sad

True, but I’m a firm believer in the motto of you made your bed now lie in it.

I mean I get it. I don't talk to my own dad (not political reasons). However I am a father myself and it would be really sad to raise my kid for him to just say "later" and never talk to me again. Then again I wouldn't believe Trump and his cult. Still sad to think you could be alone because of something that has nothing to do with me.

I agree, I feel sorry for the man getting lost like he did. But I will not raise my family around such a narcissistic attitude.

That sounds about right.

I have a sister that's the same.

I would have never guessed she'd fall victim to such a thing... she's intelligent and Trump prior to running for election was the type of person she'd despise. I don't know what happened. It's like the person I knew got taken over by a sick, alien virus that's destroyed the person I remember. She's angry, condescending and downright hateful to anyone that tries to talk to her about the lies and real evidence she ignores. It's sad, and I miss the sister I remember.

Same with my father. He was a great guy until he jumped on the Trump train. Now he is a hateful, bigoted racist that thinks if you don't think the way he does you aren't worth his time. I learned my thought process from him where you don't blindly follow someone else. Research, research and more research before you commit youself to something. Make sure you are making an informed decision, hell he is a retired cop, he was a detective, he knows how important it is to look at the evidence and make the right decision. But not since Trump, he even started looking up Qanon shit to base his decisions on. I miss who he was, but I won't join his beliefs just to keep him in my life.

Your father is still probably following his process, but one of the most dangerous things Trump did was sew distrust of trustworthy sources. If you throw out government agencies, the mainstream media, and what scientists say, then doing extra research ends up coming from rightwing sources and just pushes you further right. And it's a hard thing to defend against because government agencies can and have been dishonest and the mainstream media usually is.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

I'm sure he was a good father to you since you miss his old self, but being a cop in no way implies that he'd be intelligent or competent in any way. In fact, it would provide some of the explanation as to why he'd be joining the cult of an authoritarian figure. Not only are cops often required to not be too intelligent, they also already belong to an authoritarian organization, so it wouldn't be a big change to jump on the Trump train. It's not exactly a coincidence that he has such strong support among law enforcement people.

Again, I know that people can be good fathers regardless of their professional lives, and I don't doubt that he was good to you. I'm not looking to be offensive or attack you, I have nothing at all against you personally. It's just slightly jarring to see someone's status as a former cop being held up as evidence of competence. It is not now, nor has it ever been a good thing to be a cop.

No no offense taken. My dad wasn’t your normal cop. He actually showed empathy as well as sympathy towards situations. He never had that billy badass mentality like most do. Hell even when he went to talk to someone in inherently bad parts of town, like the Watts in LA during the riot era or even like Harlem as the gangs started getting bad, he would leave his firearm in the car. And he stood in solidarity with those that looked at cops like they were the devil themselves. His outlook changed drastically during the trump administration.

He didn’t believe socialism was a bad thing, unless it turned into violent rhetoric. He was always a progressive conservatism. Everyone had the right to voice what they believed in as long as they didn’t push their narrative to being the only right answer.

Now the only narrative he believe in is conspiracy theories, such as engaging with a gay person WILL make you gay or that everything is evil unless it’s the far-right wing way. My father has even gone to the point of denying the innocent until proven guilty, now you are guilty for even thinking that it might be a good idea. The man has changed for the worst, if I didn’t know any better you’d think he had Alzheimer’s and only focuses on the wrongs of people, no matter what, even if they didn’t do anything wrong, unless they believe how he does. It’s actually scary. If you don’t think like him you should be shot on site, that’s not the man that raised me.

I’m actually ashamed to call him my father.

Admitting she is wrong about a single fact would bring the entire house of cards tumbling down... Imagine having to admit you are wrong about everything you have come to represent. It would come with soul crushing pain to your ego, and these people can't confront that.

It is sad to hear how we let the wealthy class and politicians divide us on culture wars and identity politics.

We should be talking more to the people we don't agree with and come together over class lines, working class vs. wealthy class.

Trump and Sanders were both able to create a grassroots movement for a reason.

Talking is the way to get to what we share in common, instead we focus on what we disagree on.

That's a nice sentiment, but there's no talking to these people. They WILL NOT listen to their family or friends. Any information they absorb must be from Fox News, Trump himself, or the other far right information platforms.

They don't live on the same level of logic that the rest of us do and approaching them with logic only angers and confuses them. They become belligerent, obtuse, and steadfast in their views. It can't be broken through logic because it's a cult and they're not operating with logic.

My father is also one of these people.

Makes me wonder if deepfakes of tucker carlson is the only way to unfuck things at this point

Jesus. Imagine sacrificing your family for that orange traitor cunt.

Unfortunately it has happened to a lot of families. At first I thought it was a case of that won’t happen to us, but I was wrong. My family is one of the victims of trump in this respect.

My idiot parents voted for trump once, so I get it.

Sorry man. I hope he comes around.

He’s ~ 80+ years old, I don’t expect him to. At least not before he passes away.

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I feel like we need some sort of legal protection for circumstances like this. no objective analysis of these people's behaviour would agree that they're acting rationally, and probably can't even be considered to be in their right minds. should we risk individuals so afflicted being able to determine the direction an entire country takes? do they pass out voting forms at mental institutions?

Disqualifying a candidate is the intended legal protection. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that will ever be used effectively if it's not done to Trump.

that's not going to work for his supporters, though. they'll scream conspiracy and the next capital riot might not be such a joke.

Rioting will come and go. Assuming a disqualification is recognized by enough people, then the noise makers will go back into the woodwork for a time.

There's a lot of misguided people out there who would vote for Trump if he was on a ballot but would not start a civil war if he was not.

I feel like it's true to say that we are the closest we've been to a civil war since the last, but that doesn't mean that the risk of civil war is high.

If Americans actually voted this wouldn't be an issue. The problem is the only people who actually vote at every chance they get are these types.

As I understood, that was one intent of the electoral college.

Actually, yes.

I feel like this could be a slippery slope for whoever is in charge and if not done right which is more than likely it'll be like going back in time where anytime someone disagrees with something "you're being hysterical" then you get institutionalized.

it certainly carries risks, but then, seemingly so does doing nothing to address it. I wonder how many people would still be alive if trump had never gotten a first term.

To your last question I mean

so if a country manages to reach a critical threshold of cultists, the government should just hand over the reins, despite the likelihood it will never again (or at least, for an extensive period) see a fair election?

You said mental illness, which is what I was referring to. Also, cultists are (generally, unless they're otherwise forbidden) allowed to vote as well (unfortunately).

I was downvoted for this comment on another thread:

1/3 of the electorate would be happy to have trump rape their kids live on C-SPAN and would line up to suck his asshole as an expression of gratitude.

I stand by it.

They would only agree to that if Trump had asked for it and in return he would torture liberals, then they'd line up for it.

He's unapologetically hateful towards "the left" and they love that. He's their vehicle to hurt us which is what they ultimately want as we're all "Goldstein." Reich wing media plays their "2 minutes hate" every day to remind them to hate "Goldstein."

The fact that Jews were the first to secularize in the rapidly secularizing West will be used against them until it can't be. As if being the first means you caused the rest to follow suit. I was naïve to feel surprised about this fact, but it still feels like a disaster.

EDIT: in hindsight I see my comment can be read in terrible ways - I am all in favor of secularization and nearly converted to Judaism a lifetime ago before I started taking Wellbutrin, no problem with Jews here.

Only if their kid was liberal. Then they'd be ok with it.

It's a cult

I really think that many moderates and liberals simply don't understand the grasp that he has over some people. This is how post WW1 Germany became Nazi Germany right before WW2.

We can make fun of it. We can complain about it. But what I rarely see is people studying it and trying to understand both the draw and the origins of this deadly attraction.

As much as we want to simply call these people "stupid" or "clueless" (which many people in this thread have already one) but it is much deeper than that. In fact taking that simplistic approach only makes it that much easier for him to recruit more people. The Left is so quick to minimize the hardships that many Trump supporters have faced in the past which might have pushed then to join his cult. If you constantly push groups away and this cult is openly embracing them and saying they understand their pain, then you can't be surprised when you hear headlines like the one for this story.

Well, yeah people call them stupid because they have the most access to facts out of all humans throughout history and yet work hardest to reject ALL of them except those they want to believe.

And I don't think most people were all that quick to dismiss these people's pain at first, in fact a lot of us have felt it firsthand. It's just really hard to feel sorry for people who are proudly bigoted, hateful, and willfully ignorant.

You're right, it's not helpful to call them stupid and dismiss their views, but it's honestly like we have no choice. How do you help and have empathy for people who would make your friends' existence illegal? How can you take seriously someone who constantly screams about problems that don't really exist, and are solely based on fearing people who have no interest in bothering them?

Seriously? Real questions.

I miss who my uncle used to be. No idea how he can do a complete 180. His father, who was an illegal immigrant must be rolling in his grave.

How do you go from attending your friend's gay wedding to telling that same friend they should get divorced and seek help?

it makes me think that this constant recital of "people are waking up" is more like people have fallen for deceitful marketing. if he happily attended a gay wedding beforehand, then the only reason he speaks down upon it now is because he's been programmed... played like a kazoo, if you will

because playing a fiddle actually takes some semblance of knowledge, and god knows these guys don't have that lmao

!bridgingthegap@unilem.org

Rather than trying to understand their pain, my opinion is that the US right wing voter is under the control of one of the largest propaganda networks in history. The evangelical church, the billionaires that own local TV stations (Sinclair), Fox News, AM radio, and now social media echo chambers have led to a complete epistemic closure of the American right. Facts cannot penetrate that wall. Science cannot penetrate that wall. No amount of Democrat messaging can penetrate that wall. Seeing something with their own eyes cannot penetrate that wall.

History teaches us that this kind of propaganda leads to a very bad ending. Civil war, genocide, authoritarian dictatorship... pick your poison. America needs to find a way to dismantle the right wing propaganda apparatus, without that I see no hope. (I know, doom and gloom.) I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Completely on the dot! A couple of years ago during Covid I landed into the far right echo chamber. The way it happened: I was looking for answers to all the craziness that was unfolding, and found my source for answers. Apparently, it was all just a big conspiracy, and there was a group of satanist elites that were trying to take over the world. Terrifying stuff, and even more terrifying, apparently they had so much power that they managed to gain control of all big news channels! Don't look at the news anymore, and beware of contradicting news sources, they might be controlled opposition! I was in it for about two years and learned about all kinds of weird stuff, Freemasons, MK Ultra, Adrenochrome, Archons, Reptilians, you name it. Recently, through discovering contradictions, I've been re-assessing my beliefs and have come to the conclusion that most of it is nonsense.

The grip is very strong once it's got you. Its whole schtick is in systematically closing off all your access to contradictory information and getting you hooked on sources from the inside, based on fear of the "powerful elites". It's a self-controlling system of more of the same, leading to more and more rigidness and nonsense as you get sucked deeper into the belief. At the same time it is actively trying to gather new members. This is why it can live on so many separate channels, even outside of the internet. No moderators are even needed to control the information from its members, as members themselves already do the job on their own. It's the perfect epistemic loop, and the thought that you're in one won't even cross your mind.

I'm afraid that TV stations, Fox News and the church are not the primary spreaders of this belief. It might not necessarily be spread top-down. The echo chamber can be compared more to a living organism, which self-corrects and evolves based on its environment, to grow and gain members. Scary stuff, the way it traps people looking for answers.

For me the solution has been a new belief system: one where I am aware of the way echo chambers work, and am actively looking for them in my own life so I can escape them, with daily practices and all to assist me in this. A lot of our problems are built on echo chambers that we build ourselves. I've been experimenting with this for about half a year now, with some really great success. I'm making posts about this here on Lemmy if you're interested:

The principles of all echo chambers: https://unilem.org/post/120862

They're not actually in a lot of pain. Their struggles with poverty and drugs aren't fundamentally different than those of the left.

What they actually are is secretly hateful and bigoted, and those beliefs are deeply rooted cultural beliefs for them. Trump just made it socially acceptable for them to be openly hateful like they've wanted to be for so long, and gave them the promises of fulfilling their white nationalist dreams, so they jumped all over his dick.

It's not actually that complicated. I had the misfortune of growing up around their ilk, and have rolled with them for two years because of the lockdowns, so I know the score.

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I've been fascinated with how the religious right has stood behind someone so obviously out of line with their 'principles'. There actually have been people doing interesting work on that front, if you know who/where to look. I'd definitely recommend the book "Jesus and John Wayne" by Kristin Kobes du Mez, which chronicles the growing power of conservative Christianity in government starting back in the 40s through the election of Trump, and how electing Trump really was an expression of their values, not a departure from it. Podcasts like "Conspirituality" and "Straight White American Jesus" also try to take an honest look at the cultishness and where it's coming from. What's hard is that deradicalization is hard and often has to be done one person at a time. When we have one percent of the country needing to be deradicalized, maybe we can find people to go talk and make connections with each person. When it's 30% of the country, that's a much different proposition. Maybe society can figure out how to do that better--Conspirituality sometimes talks about how cults differ as leaderless, online only groups. Maybe social media can also reach people... But it won't if kids can't find information online that challenges the worldviews their parents want to program into them.

And recently, that Amazon Duggar documentary "Shiny Happy People" came out, and it's not a bad entry point to understand the issues I'm talking about either. I think it does a good job to show how these 'throwback' values play on nostalgia too act as an on ramp for people to raise their children in--children who are then encouraged to be literal warriors for Christ--or their GOP allies.

Hey, I'm running a community here on Lemmy that is focused on the topic of echo chambers and the way they form, and I think you might like it:

Excuse my shameless plug, lol

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !bridgingthegap@unilem.org

Ha, thanks bot

The part that is fascinating to this Canadian, is that a lot of his supporters' hardships are increased by the policies of the GOP. The demographic that is the largest recipient of federal social aid in the US is poor white people in the South and Midwest. Yet they continually vote for the party that has a clear policy of eliminating these programs.

Just before 2016, I saw this video that I wish I could find again. This journalist went somewhere in the Rust Belt to talk to these (overwhelmingly white) people. Of course, she got the usual "We believe in God, Guns and Country, and active trying to change that... Yada yada" stuff. But the interesting part was when she had an exchange with some fellow that went sort of like this (from memory):

"So, you've voted Republican all your life?" "Yep." "And in your lifetime, have things gotten better, of worse for you?" "Oh, way worse." "So... You keep voting for the same party, and your situation never get better?" "Yeah. But it could..." "Right, but it hasn't. So why not try voting for the other party and seeing?" "Yeah, but it could!"

I'm not sure how you fix this type of "logic".

I tried finding that video a few times the last few years, and couldn't. Maybe it's time to try again.

I think it's possible that a lot of people don't fundamentally understand what voting does. They see it as more of sports team color than the actual underlying policies being driven by political campaigns.

A decent number of young people around me think (or thought) that voting doesn't matter, that the only way to accomplish anything is through violent, disobedient protests.

But those don't fund infrastructure plans to rebuild schools and give schools bigger budgets. Those don't help people get the subsidized vaccines every child needs to be healthy. It doesn't help establish an impartial body for drawing voting maps. It doesn't help establish rights and minimums for the bottom 35% of families in the US. It doesn't decide public foreign policy or local bus and rail routes.

Voting does.

It's a message our young people need. Voting, and the due diligence and research you need to do to make an informed vote, usually takes less than one hour if you look at all their campaign issues, education, and political depth (did they work for a government before, what positions were they in, what were their accomplishments, etc.).

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As much as we want to simply call these people “stupid” or “clueless” (which many people in this thread have already one) but it is much deeper than that.

Further, doing so will galvanize their support for their guy.

People like to imagine that making it obviously shameful to follow a guy would discourage people, but if you are open to considering the guy, you just get pissed, dig in, and let your persecution complex run wild. Famously, Hilary Clinton did a misstep in calling Trump followers "deplorables". Which might have been an apt word to describe his die-hard adherents, but a much broader population took that as an insult, that the perception of "it's us or them" had been validated. Even if they didn't believe in Trump "per se", the culture is absolutely support your guy, no matter what, or else the bigger evil other guy will ruin your country.

No one wants to believe they are being conned, that they are being manipulated. That the person they believe in is so bad. In the rare case where someone admits they were for Trump, but now recognize that he is a bad person, they are still likely to face ridicule for having ever been in a situation to fall for Trump's shtick.

I don't want to "study" or empathize with magats.

I want to belittle and (electorally) destroy them into irrelevance.

I grew up in a magat household. They're magats because they're fucking morons. I solved the mystery for you - no additional study is required.

I got in a debate once with my mom about the age of the Earth (of course she's a young Earth creationist). I brought up the speed of light - we see things that are farther than 6000 light years, so the Earth has to be more than 6000 years old. Her rebuttal: "What if the sky is like an Etch-a-Sketch that God is holding up for us to see?" How do you reason with someone that believes something like that? Do you really think I if brought up stellar parallax or spectroscopy or stellar evolution that would change her mind?

My grandma, I bought her an iPad 10 years ago so she could get on Facebook and watch YouTube and stuff. Big mistake! Now I have to hear stuff about how Hillary Clinton has been arrested and convicted by a military tribunal and is wearing an ankle bracelet and will be put in prison after the 2018 election. Adrenochrome. Comet Ping Pong. Democrats want to chop off elementary school age boys penises. Bamboo ballets. Mike Lindell. Ballots dumps. Obama controls everything. Porn in schools. Democrats are trying to make us eat bugs.

Prior to the iPad I had probably heard her mention politics like less than a handful of times in my entire life.

She wouldn't get the COVID vaccine... Even though she's 83 obese, arthritic, congestive heart failure, diabetic, and has had two previous heart attacks. Then she got COVID and almost died, was in the hospital for more than month, now on oxygen at home... STILL WON'T GET VACCINATED.

These are not people that reason or think about anything. The only way to get them on our side would be a propaganda network to compete with Sinclair, Fox, OAN, Newsmax, Hannity, Neck, Levin, Shapiro, PragerU, Crowder, Savage, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Daily Wire, Project Veritas, The Blaze, WND, Candace, Jordan Peterson, The Washington Times, etc... And then pump that down their YouTube and Facebook feeds. Unfortunately I don't know any left wing billionaires that want to create competing institutions to these things.

Not to mention the right wing message of simple solutions, zero thinking, and your prejudices are actually a good thing is hard to compete with.

Way to completely miss the point.

You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into.

I think a lot of Democrats/liberals have West Wing Syndrome where they think if they make a convincing argument in a speech or debate that the other side will then come to the light... They won't. They're either evil or stupid or a combination of both.

Interestingly the magats don't have this problem. They don't give a shit about convincing you of anything, they just want their side to win and our side to lose.

I agree. Fundamentally, these folks that support him now are not doing well. It's not the same for everyone. Some are feeling disenfranchised from parts of daily life, some are experiencing undesired change, some are terribly unhappy and don't know where to point their frustration, etc. Trump isn't a likely cult leader. He isn't very charismatic like we normally associate cult leaders. But he came with the right message at the right time and for a very large segment of our population, that message made sense to them. It gave them a REASON for how they were feeling, even if they didn't understand their own feelings in the first place.

When the day comes that the spell is broken, society must be ready to re-engage with these people in a meaningful way. Otherwise we are doomed to repeat it with the next person to show up and given them another reason.

Oh, we know that Trump and Fascism have a strong grasp on certain people; that is why we have been alerting everyone since 2015. We know the history and the extreme dangers to the planet that someone like Trump is. We won't rest until the threat is removed.

You can't remove the threat without understanding it. Simply calling his supporters "idiots" don't do it. And that has been done countless times in this thread already. Yeah it feels good to make fun of them and call them names, but without understanding their motives and their history and what led them to be MAGAts, someone new will simply come along and take his place when he finally keels over and drops dead. The WHY is the single most important thing in this situation and far too many of times when I bring up the fact that these folks feel marginalized, I get downvoted and simpletons just scream out "no, it's because they are RaCiSt".

We will take care of them once Trump is removed from the election. These types will expose themselves, and thousands will break the law to express their anger their fascist leader won't be President. The best way to eliminate the right is to put up barriers, and they will show themselves and destroy themselves simultaneously. The job of actual American citizens is to shame them and prevent them from being part of civilized society because of their actions. We MUST make examples out of them, or we will continue down this cycle repeatedly.

One thing I'd like a better understanding of is the percentage of people that really are rabid Trump supporters vs the people who just voted for him because he was the Republican candidate. I feel like the polls at this point are worthless and we really won't know how many of them there really are until the primaries. Maybe we will get a better view after the debates.

Anyway, I'm curious if you or anyone else has stats as to how many cult members there really are?

I personally don't have a problem with Republicans. l think low taxes, small, government and even religion are a valid world views. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand why they do, I just wish they backed someone who respected our institutions.

They claim about 60% of GOP votes. That translates to about 20% of all voters are hardcore MAGAts. Even if that number is rounded up a little, I would say at least 15% are the rabid Trump supporters you are talking about. That's roughly 25M people. That is not an insignificant number of people. Then there will be a ton of other votes for Trump and the GOP simply because some people will vote for their party regardless.

Now in THEORY I could agree with you that having a party push for low taxes and small government isn't bad. But the GOP hasn't believed that in decades. They might still campaign on that message because who doesn't want their taxes lowered, but there is absolutely nothing "fiscally responsible" about that party and every time they gain power, they prove that.

And that is my personal biggest worry is that if Trump somehow doesn't win the GOP nomination, some other Republican could step up and start singing the same "lower taxes" bullshit that they've been trying for ages but ultimately when they get power they will try shoving religion down our throats, cut abortion rights even further, cut taxes - but only on the ultra wealthy, which will leave the rest of us with even more massive deficits - and increased spending on military programs we simply do not need.

Republicans have proven time and again that they do not deserve support.

There appears to be a good example of Spain in the 30s before the civil war. Both sides saw each other as the devil incarnated. There was no talking with each other,no middle ground. Bloodshed was the only way they were going to sort it out in the end.

Except that the Left doesn't really see Trump and MAGAts as being "devil incarnate". They kind of do, but they spend more time writing funny memes or posting snarky comments on Twitter than anything else. They are simply not taking as seriously as they should.

The Right sees this as war. Not in political discord and verbal debate, but as an actual fight for survival.

You don't see earnest studying of it because both established parties enjoy the "Go Sports Team" dynamic it's part of.

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I got told I'll get kicked out of my own apartment by someone who isn't on the lease if I make fun of trump and Republicans out loud lmao.

Me and my mother are on the lease. Her BF who lives with us isn't . Apparently he'll kick me out of my own apartment (I'm 25 btw. Not a kid.)

So why is your mother dating this douche?

Her mother is just like him

Start slowly adding feces to his food

Actually scary.

First thing I thought.

How does 'grab them by the pussy' and 'Mexico will pay for the Wall' make someone trustworthy?

The bravery to be a vocal bigot is a valued character trait with these people. Somehow that is coin for trustworthiness.

You can hate Mexicans and still know they won't pay for the Wall.

Conservatives are subtly telling you that they think dishonesty is a virtue and honesty is a vice. Conservatives are people who love to be lied to. So Convicted Sex Offender Treason Trump is a big thrill because he is a pathological liar.

It's called a cult.

Trump, Mormons, etc all these crazy people confirm to me 100% that all religion is made up by conmen. If it's this easy to make people believe bullshit in 2023, imagine fleecing people in 023. It would be trivial.

Trumpism is a cult

A death cult.

Hopefully they won't do what death cults usually do, if you catch my drift

If their leader tells them to wear Nikes and have drink of poison because that way the comet will pick them up and maga, I’d say we don’t stand in the way.

A comet may be the only way left to make America great again ><

Very few aren't.

Just like cult members. 🙄

It's terrifying how similar the Trump playbook is to that of a cult leader. Convincing someone that they must trust you over their family and friends is step one to getting them isolated and exploitable.

https://lemmy.world/post/3453314

Like this one...

Considering that Trump told them that COVID-19 wouldn't kill them and their family said it would, of course they would trust him since it didn't. Those that died of COVID, of course, didn't answer the poll. Survivorship bias!

If your family is the type that goes for trump, then there's no wonder.

They see first had their family and friends are not the brightest bulbs, they just miss he irony.

https://lemmy.world/post/3453314

It’s because they’re fucking stupid. We already know this. I swear, every news organization seems to like to post the obvious over and over again.

Yeah, but ask them and everybody else are the stupid ones 😂 I can't with what this world has become

Religious leaders too lmfao.

That was the stat that stood out to me, and made me wonder if there's something within the "MAGA" mind that explained it.

Yes there is. Some people are more susceptible to cultish shit than others, these are the people who apparently are the most shitty of people who are the most susceptible

They'll take it as far as the pollster wants ask. It's not really about what they believe or say, it's about unwavering support and owning the libs. They know they'll never be tested where they have to choose, so it's just a big game to them.

While this is certainly not far from the truth, it becomes an actual problem if too many crazies assume, they're not alone.

All the people storming the capitol did actually get tested and they "passed".

Jeeeesus fucking christ. America is one fucked up culture. I feel bad for them.

Thank you.

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Cult

On a related note...

Yes, we live in a clown world.

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Cult 45

"grandpa, life is hard for young people."

"no. It's not. Life was hard for ME. Trump and fox say young people just need to work hard and save! And that also Biden ruined the economy."

It's a cult.

How accurate are polls these days? If you can't call people with cell phones, you're forced to call landlines, and those are owned by septuagenarians and octogenarians who lean hard to the right. It's had an effect on the accuracy of polls, as the recently fired Nate Silver will tell you. His analyses used to be eerily accurate, but then cell phones happened.

I'm a 45 year old leftist with a land line in a rural part of a southern state.

Are you OK?

By what metric?

It's just that the 80s called, they want their landline back.

If I want Internet where I don't have to see people then I have to have a land line. It could be worse. I could have neighbors.

So I don't know about this poll specifically (and I think you'd be right when who they are polling if they're calling landlines). But I get polls to my email.

https://civiqs.com/i/0GZSKu-t

How do you sign up for this? I want to participate in political polls.

This just in, Newsweek discovers the concept of cults.

The last decade has baffled me. How did we get so freaking stupid?

We aren't. Facists are and they have been here the entire time. They feel empowered.

We are, and if you don't understand that... I mean, it's better to know our failings than to not know them... Or let ego refuse them.

I think the problem is that Facebook got the mundane to use the internet.

I'd say that problem happened well before Ol' Zuck thought to steal the Facebook idea and run with it.

Yeah...

But it was when the corpo takeover began

Resentment towards elites who sold us all on a bunch of bullshit. The elites have failed us in nearly every way and that in turn made it easy for a populist like Trump to step in and start telling the lies that a certain demographic wants to hear.

Mind you, I'm not saying that it makes any logical sense, I'm just explaining what I believe happened, or at least a big part of it.

Oh I definitely feel that resentment and it has certainly made me a worse person. The wealthy have done a smash & grab on our economies and it's been destroying livelihoods.

Where I feel like we've become stupid as a species is placing our trust in filthy rich corrupt oligarchs. Many of the politicians we elect are basically getting lobbyist handjobs from big corporations.

We've always been this stupid. It just took some extraordinary events to bring it out again.

So when's he going to gather them all at Mar-a-logo of New Guinea and have them drink Flavoraid?

Trump voters have friends who aren't also Trump voters?

Not anymore.

Sometimes i think Trump is a conspiracy to make people question democracies, I certainly don’t think its good idea that everyone can vote anymore

In hungary we have similar thing, but for orban For us there is no way to get out, orban's men are everywhere, even if another party would win with huge majority, they cant do shit, as every department have orban's comrades, and the cant be recalled, or dismissed until their mandate expires (which is 8-9 years

That sounds terrifying, hope you stay safe

Sounds like a "secular" version of Iran's clerics and Revolutionary Guard/brownshirts. Or the Gulanists that got into every cranny of Turkish government with the help of Erdogan (before he turned on them because you can't control "true believers").

Most of my family are Trump supporters, so....

I put 1300 miles between myself and crazy republican family members lol. I only wish I could convince my mom to move out where I am. She is pretty apolitical but thinks Trump is a crook lol

This is your first ever comment, congrats!

B3cause they are all fucking idiots.

Probably poorly educated.

Not all of them are and underestimating them is a mistake.

Unfortunately, that rhetoric will only reinforce their stance that they are a persecuted class.

We may think of it as a self-inflicted situation, but they feel the direct personal insult rather than seeing it as an avoidable situation by just preferring some other republican that isn't as obviously corrupt and sleezey.

No probably needed.

Unfortunately I know people with Masters degrees and law degrees who believe in this shit whole heartedly.

Two words: insanely bizarre

Two more though: patently obvious

I guess there are folks out there who don't have family members in the cult who might be surprised by this, but I'm not sure all 3 of them are going to be newsweek readers.

Thats insane I don't trust Biden more than my family and I certainly wouldn't give my life to protect him I might to protect democracy though

Democracy’s already dead, so you dodged that bullet.

Sure if you want to be a defeatist and blame everyone else for not doing anything about the evil in the world

The DSM should add a subsection.

Need a whole new DSM just for republicans.

That’s just sad. And hilarious in a dark way. But now mostly sad.

Trump voters are some sick puppies, that's a fact.

Trump voters are some sick puppies, that’s a fact.

Huh? Are you suggesting that Qcrazies, Pizzacrazies, Birthercrazies, Sandyhookcrazies, Startthestealcrazoes, and the stereotypical conservative are people who just love to be lied to?

It would require someone that deluded to trust him, yes.

Of all the people to be mistaken for the second coming of jesus, why the billionaire?

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

Right?!?

They have no family or friends just other cultists.

It's a cult and they all need to go to jail with him. They can share their own prison.

This is the least surprising thing I’ve read today.

Pride truly is one of the deadliest sins.

It always amazes me someone can trust another that much. I'm not paranoid, but I just never have that much trust in anyone.

Yeah because they are stupid assholes.

pure cult shit

Damn. Who do I trust less? Trump or Trump supporters? That’s a tough one, honestly. At least there’s some level of scrutiny on him.

I bet it’s a really good well run “scientific poll”. Nothing meant to create punchy headlines and grab eyeballs.

YouGov is considered one of the more reputable polling companies. They're as credible as any poller these days.

Not gonna lie man, some of these news articles lately sound like FUD to me.

Anyone who has a political or religious motivation that seeks to gain your trust over friends and even family is not who they say they are, but a cult leader. I'd like to think that we don't have that many people who are THAT fucking stupid even on the planet, let alone in a single country that is not even heavily populated in comparison to others.

Clearly you haven't had a political discussion with a Trump supporting family member. It doesn't matter that they trust you on other topics. It doesn't matter how many facts, how much data, the actual vote counts on bills, etc you show them. The word of Trump might as well be God's to them.