Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

A smart tv without an internet connection is usually close enough to a dumb TV. It's not like your TV needs regular security updates so leaving it off your home network is fine.

Smart TVs are only smart when they are connected to the internet.

If they raise the price, then they only get money once. If they sell your data, now they have an income stream.

Worse than that, they have gave free speech to corporations, and now that includes doing nearly anything involving communication or spending money.

Most likely yes.. And other privacy sensitive information like banking details, passwords and more.

Screenshotting every 500ms is insane.

You have it backwards. You have to EVICT them.

Every major tech major brands and business, even cars like BMW and now also TVs like Samsung or LG are all spying on their customers. And why isn't this forbidden by lawn already?

They are. They just aren't the only one.

They're both problems.

Because that’s a chinese corporation making money.

It’s fine when a US one does it

Well, have a nap

THEN FIRE ZE SAMSUNG & LG CEOS!

Zen have a nap

It shouldn't be opt in or out tbh. This shit should just be illegal.

The whole adverspying industry needs to be reined the fuck in and slowly turned to mulch.

The first step to that is letting us see what the advertiser has in our hidden "profiles" and let us modify and/or wipe them out.

Yeah, it'll grab a few frame, crunch them up, post back something like "ac8c986ffcb770d460151b20c1cfe628612247ac2d284c780761af3b544bfea7" to the servers and from there it likely gets binned as "not recognised" but might match a segment from Star Wars 4K77.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be off by default (and it probably is, I haven't bought a new one for years), but what we've learnt since GDPR is that if a big box comes up over what you're trying to do and it has an "Accept" button, people will generally click it and read nothing just to get back to another riveting episode of America's Deadliest Home Shootouts or something.

The original author (Jeremy Hsu) is misleading here with the term “screenshot every 500ms”.

"meta tags every 500ms" might be more accurate, but the end result is the same. The device is monitoring what you consume in order to aggregate data on your household.

This is the correct answer. I actually disabled LG's version of it when I first heard about it. A few months later it had been reactivated in an update, so I just factory reset it and connected an old laptop.

You can't trust anyone — corporation or government — to protect or respect your privacy. Ever. If it's not open source and E2EE, assume that a criminal is going to view and process it for profit.

I have a Samsung smart TV that is not connected to any networks, and every few days it will display a 'detecting device' loading screen when switching to my input that fails after 30 seconds or until I cancel it (canceling does not seem to impact its functioning)

I have no evidence but I strongly suspect this to be related to attempting to record and send device data to a remote server.

Question, what separate device is best and most privacy focused? I just imagine getting a firestick, google Chromecast, etc would also give away data?

It still can connect to untrusted wifi access point (without password protection). So also try to go to: Settings Menu -> General & Privacy -> Terms & Privacy -> And there is a whole list of privacy setting. Try to find the option to: Do not agree with all. Or you need to manually disallow each privacy option.. Good luck!

They have been known to connect automatically to nearby compatible devices or unsecured wifi.

They're getting smart to that and are starting to hard code server IPs, circumventing any DNS you have in place.

Do you know where I can source the domains?

You'll have to insulate your home from any outside unsecured wifi and compatible devices to stop some of them from networking.

That sadly doesn't work well enough. They will connect to things on their own.

I have come to realize this and have declined all the T&Cs except for like 3 that you just have to accept to make it function.

Hello 8th person I've had to explain this to: they still connect to stuff. Even if you disable WiFi on the Samsung TV they can mesh network with other TVs in your neighborhood or with your phone (Samsung is particularly pushy about wanting you to install and connect your phone).

You should look into PiHole, if you're half-savvy with computers. They should be able to block all the destinations smart TVs are trying to connect to

If that's true - lan for your own content with network isolation and ripping out the WiFi antenna, I guess?? I hate this

If you use an Android TV system you don't get to complain about your video output device tracking.

Android has closed source Google spy framework, don't use that.

what kind of Android box do you have? anything you recommend? (looking to have some sort of streaming client)

Sorry for being paranoid but can the TV piggyback the connection used by the the streaming device/android box to send data back to the TV OEM?

Totally agree. It sounds like something was lost in translation here by the final edit of potentially some run though a llm for proof reading to dumb it down enough to either just make it more consumable, more clickbait or realistic both.

My guess is the actual research reported that it was 100s of packets per second (not screenshots) which is still a lot more than you would expect even for spyware. Either way it’s been well known that smart tvs are spyware ridden, I don’t need a paywalled service to tell me that.

I'm the OP, but not the author of this article posted.

After I dove deep into the study, the study said it records data at 500ms. And then it batches the data together, and only sent data once per minute back to Samsung. Between 8kB and 9kB of data per minute. So definitely not 4K screenshots.

I agree. I'm the OP, but not the author of this article. I do believe this author doesn't know what he is talking about. After looking at the study, it seems it does record data at 500ms interval. However, only in intervals of 1 time per minute 8kB of data is sent back, meaning its only some kind of meta data.

Probably won’t happen as I’m not in the US, however if it does start to show ads it will be very quickly disconnected from the internet and relegated to being solely a display for the PS5. It’s not far off that anyway.

Not sure how ads for medications are legal anywhere.

I have definitely had to forget networks, then have them connect to that network weeks later at random, then having to forget the network again. Don't know how that's legal.

It's also harder to find them in larger sizes any more, even for the few for which sell them at all, so if you want a larger one, you may not have much by way of options.

https://assetbasedlife.com/dumb-tvs-are-a-dying-breed/

This lists Insignia, which is a Best Buy store brand.

This has a couple, at least as of last year:

https://www.tomsguide.com/features/dumb-tvs-heres-why-you-cant-find-them-anymore

Your best bet of grabbing one is to head over to Best Buy and look out for the Insignia brand of TVs. There you can find a 43-inch dumb TV for around $169 or a 32-inch model for $69 . (Links to Best Buy.)

On Amazon, you can simply search for dumb TV and you should be able to find a few options from manufacturers like Westinghouse, RCA or Sceptre. (Links to Amazon.)

It's also possible to buy a used TV, but obviously, as with getting used cars to avoid monitoring stuff in newer cars, the pool of those will only be around for so long, and you can't take advantage of any technological advances subsequent to them.

Plenty of companies make display TVs that only display commercial content. You see them all the time displaying menus in fast food restaurants.

These can also have all smart tech turned off because some companies also use them as digital whiteboards to display proprietary or confidential information.

I've heard that some of them will connect to any wifi available. So if your neighbor does not have a password on their network. The tv will connect and upload the data.

Yes. It could talk to another smart device and ask it to send its packages. You could be careful and connect none of the smart crap in your house to your network, but the smart fridge in your upstairs neighbor's kitchen could still be helping with smuggling your data out. Or your devices could be connected to some unsecured network around.

In any case, the only surefire way to stop your data from getting smuggled out is to physically kill all the wireless connectivity capabilities of the device. Disconnect antennae, desolder chips, scrape out pcb traces. Otherwise you're just hoping the firmware is not doing anything funny. Fortunately I think these are all hypotheticals that have not (yet) been observed in real smart home products.

Remember how Comcast routers made that ghost mesh network?

Not putting your WiFi password in would absolutely be reliable.

No, it would not.

I’d love to hear your ideas on how they’d remotely break into your WiFi Network

They wouldn't, of course, nor did I say they would.

(But since you brought it up, we have already seen internet providers quietly using their CPE to create special-purpose wireless networks surrounding customers' homes. These could obviously be made available to any company that paid the ISP for access, just as cellular networks have been made available to companies like OnStar. So a TV could do this with a business deal rather than breaking in to your normal WiFi.)

However, your network is not the only network in the world, and WiFi is not the only kind of link. Neighbors exist. Open guest networks exist. Drive-by and fly-by networks exist. Mesh networks exist (and are already created by devices like Amazon Echo). Power line networking exists. Bluetooth, LoRa, cellular, etc. etc. etc. Maybe you live on an isolated mountain top where these things are unlikely to reach you (at least until satellite links become a little smaller and cheaper) but even that is not absolute, and most of us don't.

Unless you disassemble your TV and examine all the components within, and know what they do, it could have any number of these capabilities.

Also, partly due to how prevalent multi-network support is becoming in electronics integration, it is not unusual for related functionality to be dormant at first yet possible to activate later.

I'd love for you not to be adversarial, and to learn more about a topic before making bold claims about it in absolute terms.

If you have a samsung phone in the house, it can connect to the TV and give it a hotspot of sorts. This is a hypothetical, not real (yet!)

Dystopian

good luck finding one with a decent resolution AND price.

That raises the question: is there one that has decent resolution and privacy, but is expensive? Those of us who can afford it should surely go for the privacy friendly option regardless of price. Boycotting the surveillance society that's in full development is worth a lot.

that name invokes the old horror that is printers

The blurb above says that the TVs uploads screenshots when viewing antenna and hdmi input sources, which is what most people are reacting to here. The actual article is paywalled.

However other articles go into more detail and note that only a few KB of data per hour is actually uploaded, so the TV must be doing image analysis locally and uploading metadata only.

Easy to block that - though not with pihole exclusively.

We use another tool at our network edge to block all 53/853 traffic and redirect all port 53 traffic to our internal DNS resolver (works much like pihole).

Then we also block all DoH.

Only two devices have failed using this strategy: Chromecast - which refuses to work if it can’t access googles DNS. And Philips Hue bridges. Both lie and say “internet offline”. Every other device - even some of the questionable ones on a special VLAN for devices we don’t trust - work just fine and fall back to the router-specified DNS.

It's not just DNS. I have this rule in my firewall:

udp dport 15600 counter drop comment "Block Samsung TV shenanigans"

So far, it has blocked 20575 packets (constituting 1304695 bytes) in 6 days and 20 hours.

Oh sorry, I completely forgot to mention that. I'm using an Nvidia Shield for all my streaming.

Another approach is to connect the TV to the internet but block all LG/Samsung/whatever stuff, for example by using a firewall on your router.

The TV itself wouldn't be able to reach Hulu/Netflix/etc. they're likely using another device for that. Like a media computer or something else.

Yes you can build your own HTPC, and connect it to the TV, that is what I've been doing for the past 8 years.

Cool. I've already got more books than I'll be able to finish before I die. Might as well get back into reading. Fuck those bastards.

welp, that's all done!

disconnect it from the internet again

The Samsung monitors we get at the office still appear to be just dumb screens. No remote or anything like that. But that's from their business lineup of monitors. Wouldn't surprise me too much if their consumer/gamer lineup would be different.

I'm sure if you search the internet there are quite a few pie hole block lists that are very easy to add.

I remember hearing that some may even have LTE to fallback to.

I believe that is patented

Thing is, it's getting pretty cheap to build radios into devices, and companies are doing that and bridging them to whatever Internet connectivity they can reach, not just your own. You don't necessarily have to personally plug something into an Ethernet socket to make a device Internet-connected.

From back when Amazon Sidewalk was rolling out:

https://www.statuscake.com/blog/what-is-amazon-mesh/

This time, however, the big news is Amazon mesh, a network to connect users and their devices. The tech giants have called this project Amazon Sidewalk+ with the idea first being made public back in 2019 where they announced they wanted to extend and expand the connectivity of their customers.

Why did Amazon do this?

According to Amazon, the main reason was to provide a better service for their customers whilst using their devices. Although there has been some backlash by those in the safety and security space, the idea seems to be very safe and simple. 

How will Amazon mesh work?

The Sidewalk project will create a network mesh between all the connected devices so it can increase the connection field around the devices. It will be able to do this by using Low-energy Bluetooth and 900MHz radio signals to pass data with the connected compatible devices. By doing this, the network can extend the reach of the signal and thus it will be able to cover a larger area to allow devices to connect. 

Here is an example of how this will work: imagine if you have a compatible device at the end of your garden such as a light which you normally can’t control with your phone. With the extended network, that light could connect to a neighbour’s device and by doing this it will be connected to the network, and you will have the ability to then use your phone to control the light.

There has been some concern regarding how much data the network will use for those who agree to be part of it and Amazon have estimated that the data usage could be around 400-500mbps a month. For most people, this is such a small amount that it won’t even be noticeable.

How can the mesh network be used?

Another use for this mesh is for users around the network to connect and possibly use the mesh to perform other tasks such as a Ring doorbell (Amazon-owned) to be installed in the part of the house where the usual Wi-Fi signal doesn’t reach. This provides customers with a great alternative to the far more expensive Wi-Fi extender mesh products on the market.

As is normal in situations like this, many users are concerned about the security of this project. According to what Amazon has released regarding how it will work so far, there will not be any security concerns as the connections will not identify which device was connected meaning that if your Ring doorbell extends the network to a nearby device, the system will not mention that this device was connected to that particular Ring doorbell. However, people need to be aware that Amazon itself can collect this data and the way the users interact with the network.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/01/amazon-us-customers-given-one-week-to-opt-out-of-mass-wireless-sharing

The feature works by creating a low-bandwidth network using smart home devices such as Amazon Echoes and Ring security cameras. At its simplest, it means that a new Echo can set itself up using a neighbour’s wifi, or a security camera can continue to send motion alerts even if its connection to the internet is disrupted, by piggybacking on the connection of another camera across the street.

But the company’s plans have caused alarm among observers. Ashkan Soltani, a former chief technology officer of the US Federal Trade Commission, told the tech site Ars Technica: “In addition to capturing everyone’s shopping habits (from amazon.com) and their internet activity (as AWS is one of the most dominant web hosting services) … now they are also effectively becoming a global ISP with a flick of a switch, all without even having to lay a single foot of fiber”. The feature may also break the terms and conditions of users’ internet connections, which do not allow such resharing, warned Lydia Leong, an analyst at Gartner.

Users can disable Sidewalk in the settings section of the Alexa or Ring apps, but have until 8 June to do so. After that, if they have taken no action, the network will be turned on and their devices will become “Sidewalk Bridges”.

Amazon is not the first company to look to create such a network. Apple has taken a similar approach with the company’s range of AirTag item trackers, which can connect to the internet through any compatible iPhone they come into contact with, not simply their owner’s. And BT, through a long-term partnership with Fon, ran a service from 2007 until 2020 that allowed broadband customers to share spare bandwidth in a public wifi network.

When you have companies creating their own radio networks, they can use someone else's Internet connection to move data.

For expensive devices, like cars, it also makes economic sense to have a dedicated cell modem and service phoning data home. But it's not the only route.

Point is, you don't have a monopoly over granting your devices Internet access any more.

So an HDMI connected device that is streaming Netflix is getting screenshot?

I mean, even if it wasn't a streaming service, but let's say, video game content, or a blu ray, that is still a violation, and of course, if I'm playing content I made, then it's violating my copyright.

Does it means that it broadcast my chrome browser if connected through HDMI? If I check for a password in the password manager in chrome, it fucking sends my password to Samsung?

Exactly. HDMI contains HDCP when HDMI is streaming something copyrighted, such as Netflix app/in-browser. While they allegedly don't record Netflix app on TV, they'll be recording Netflix if it's been streamed from computer via HDMI.

anythings capable of it, but the companies behind the (premium) boxes have less of an incentive. While theyre all capable, its a matter if you have trust in them. At least for the Shield TV for example, go download a shield tv rom if you really don't trust Nvidia. If you are paranoid that they all can do it, than any smart device can do it because its connected to the internet.

No, they still exist.

lol yeah! My friend where dicks and would set that to our screen savers or if we left our laptops open would go to meatspin.com and then lock your laptop. You got quite the surprise when you unlocked your computer lol

best way is a mini pc you can put an open source OS on

then you totally control it. they can be found cheap used and are usually upgradable

they are thrown out by schools and buisnesses all the time. it does not have to be very powerful by pc standards

it can also be your first home server if youre interested