I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority.
I think that most of the Americans want this, even if people on the outside do not understand. So in that sense they are right now winning back their country, as confusing as it might sound.
Normally in Democracy the majority or popular vote wins, however due to the electoral college America has, it doesnt necessarily mean the majority voted for the winner. This was the case for Bush, and some other moments in the past.
FYI: it looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote on this one as well.
How in the fuck.
Like what drives a majority of Americans to vote for a demented toddler. It's insane.
As a kid I always wondered how on Earth did Hitler ever make anyone follow himself, how did those people not realise. Turns out a majority of people are just fucking morons.
Yep and the slow gutting of the education system isn't making it any better.
You have an entire generation coming of voting age who are rabid Trump supporters. They don't care about policies or democracy or public institutions. They don't care about healthcare, social securities, or the stability of the economy.
They don't care about any of the things that have been built up through generations. They lack critical thinking ability.
The recipe works. If you make dumb kids they will vote for dumb people. It works so well that part of the future plan for a trump presidency is to get rid of the department of education. Solidifying the Republican party indefinitely.
Without critical thinking and with mass media it's so easy to say every problem that people deal with is because the "other side" made it so. Even if the other side has been doing everything possible to achieve the opposite.
Americans aren't special. They're just as vulnerable to fascism as anybody else.
The MAGATs might as well be wearing brownshirts and saluting like Mussolini.
Blaming young people is up their with blaming immigrants and "gays" ect for [insert topic]. I would be very surprised if this was the case.
I think it's a little more nuanced.
They don't blame young people. They blame lack of education.
I used to think Ukrainian politicians were fucking clowns. I guess we got outclowned.
For all practical purposes, about 30% of people are unfeeling morons - basically psychopaths. Thatās the number that consistently opposes abortion, for instance. Add to that all the dumbasses who donāt know any better (the undecideds on any extremely obvious moral issue), et voila. Thatās how you get slavery, nationalism, genocide, theocracy, you name it.
Unless people are willing to screen for psychopathy and remove it from the gene pool, the human species will keep fucking around until it finds out. Might be nuclear apocalypse or environmental collapse, but at this rate itās inevitable.
Can we please not start arguing in favor of eugenics?
The rise of the NSDAP has been studied quite a bit. Also, the psychological aspects are really interesting. Basically normal people can make all of this possible as long as the conditions are just right.
Hate.
Well they're making plenty more of that to go around
There are many leftists and minorities that have "voted strategically" time and time and time again only for things to get worse and worse.
This kind of disenfranchisement leads to apathy and low turnout.
We are told from a young age that our vote matters, and then when we are older we are told you can only vote for red fascist or blue fascist and many choose not to participate.
There are more who did not vote than who voted for Trump. This is not what the majority wants, but with the system as it is, it is not possible for the majority to voice what they actually genuinely want and have a chance to get it.
The votes do not have to be rigged at the ballot box for voting as a whole system to be rigged.
Americans voted in Reagan twice. They also elected Bush twice. This is not surprising.
Non mandatory voting wouldnt help, being that its more susceptible to eroding a merit process from campaigns of fear or otherwise.
It's the low turn out. Too many of us are nonparticipants
And I was so loving Lina Khan's FTC, asking
among other things...
Edit: autocorrect
And Harris has done worse than Biden in every county in America.
Not every state. Every county.
Perhaps these two factors contributed to this:
Harris is a woman and maybe some Americans just don't want a female president
Harris maybe leaned too hard on celebrity endorsements, at a time when Americans are feeling worse-off financially, which perhaps made her seem out of touch to middle America
While I'm sure the statement "some Americans just don't want a female president" is true, I think the vast majority of them were going to vote Republican basically no matter what.
To paraphrase the conversation that took place on the left:
"The DNC isn't doing well among young straight white men and it's getting worse. Barack Obama polled at 66% favorable among that demographic in 2008, and that number has fallen every election until now Harris is polling in the low 40s. There's a lot of them, and we're losing them." A hot mic caught Kamala herself saying exactly that. "We're losing men."
Responds the feminists, "Look at the pathetic men throwing a fit because they're not fully in charge. Something something privilege something something patriarchy. Be better." I'll note this didn't come from Kamala's campaign, it came from the faceless rabble. The people who said "Yeah no we should probably also talk about issues that are important to men" got shouted down. So white men see that as "The people who vote for this candidate hate me no matter what, and yet they demand my vote no matter what."
Kamala started this race as Biden's running mate, then Biden showed up in "mummified during the 6th dynasty of the Old Kingdom" condition at that first debate. No time for a primary, Biden's out and Kamala's in. Now she needs a running mate. They put out an APB for a white guy preferably from the south but the midwest will do. There was some brief discussion of North Carolina governor Roy Cooper, well-liked lame duck democrat from a former confederate state, ticks all those boxes. But we landed on Tim Walz. As far as I can tell he was a genuinely solid choice; I'd never heard of him before he was announced as a short runner for Harris' running mate. Every headline I read about the guy was some new and exciting way he was a saint. Almost suspiciously so. He's still the only one on the campaign trail who I'd lend a lawnmower to.
Problem #1: We heard the APB as it went out. Here's my turn to get shouted down: This works on women, muslims, and a significant number of black men, because those demographics have an automatic in-group dynamic. You see posts talking about "My boyfriend was talking to me at the gym and a woman I've never met before comes up to pretend to be my friend. I see u gurl." So both Hilary and Kamala had the white chick vote sewn up just for existing while female. Obama, to a slightly lesser extent, had a similar effect among black men. That doesn't work on white guys, or at least, the white guys that does work on are very reliable Republican voters.
But, credit where credit is due, Walz seems like a solid guy. If they hadn't announced out loud they picked him to identity pander I wouldn't have noticed.
Problem #2: The next time I saw Walz, he was on a commercial cosplaying as a straight white man. "Governor Walz here in a camouflage hat with a dog. Watch me perform a minor repair on an antique SUV." They ran ads that literally said "I bet you're tired of hearing how much white guys suck. I mean, some of them do..." That same ad says "They're really talkin' to guys like us." No they weren't.
They ran ads talking about "I'm a REAL MAN and I'm MAN enough to vote for a WOMAN."
I didn't see Tim Walz talking about "The boys who played on my football team are struggling to afford homes. They're choosing not to get married or have children because for an increasing number of young men it's just not in the cards." No I heard a doughy guy dressed like a cowboy say "I eat carburetors for breakfast."
Among a male loneliness epidemic they ran an ad that said "Women will withhold sex unless you vote for Harris."
Obama polled well among young men because he engaged with them in their spaces. At the time, Facebook and Twitter were where the young people hung out, and he showed up there to talk to us, which was a welcome change from George W. "An internet" Bush. Obama campaigned on messages of hope and progress. I don't recall Kamala herself really doing much actual reach-out, and her campaign messaging was either lazy attempts at pandering or naked feminist grievance airing. "We need you to show up and vote for us for the second decade in a row even though we've done nothing at all to measurably improve your lives in that time, when we had the power to do so we pissed it down your leg, and we're okay saying out loud that we thoroughly hate you" has proven to be a losing campaign message.
Turns out there are more straight white men than feminists and queers in the United States voter pool. Hilary proved it and Kamala proved it, pandering exclusively to the former while demanding the support of the former will lose an election to worn out diaper hitler.
Whether it's 48 or 52 % is an immaterial difference. Every other American who voted, voted for Trump. The rest don't seem to care either way. He has very broad popular assent and is as popular as Harris give or take a margin of error.
Everyone is lasered-focused on the EC because it makes all the difference for the practicalities, but if one is to make a broad judgement of whether Trump won fair and square the answer is "yeah, mostly". Further proof is the fact that the House is probably going to be his as well.
Americans now bear the collective responsibility for the horrors of the next 4(+?) years. Do not make the mistake of blaming the popular will of outright fascism on institutional failures, because institutions didn't force half of Americans to vote for the fascist, again.
I'll wait 72 hours before settling with it, in case any shenanigans were involved. I expect it's legitimate, but I want that window open if it's needed.
Trump is winning the popular vote by a pretty decent margin. The electoral college isn't the issue here.
They haven't finished counting that's why. Rural areas are faster to count and skew conservative.
A republican hasn't won the popular vote in 20 years.
Trump is projected to win but like last time he'll lose the popular vote and win by virtue of the electoral college.
All the projections I'm seeing him show him almost certainly winning the popular vote. There's a gap of 6 million votes and almost every state is over 90% reported in. That gap is going to likely shrink a bit, but unfortunately it almost certainly won't be enough for him to even lose the popular vote.
Lets face it, we're (assuming you're american) apparently just a country of facists. It looks like GOP is going to have majority in both houses too so here comes project 2025 I guess.
Sorry bud, not a yank. You have my sympathies though.
If it turns out that he does indeed win the popular vote then yeah I'm sorry for your loss. A nest of at least 50% fascists or fascist enablers.
Heart aches for those that did their civic duty and yet have to suffer the repercussions :(
It looks like turnout is way down compared to last election. Trump is pulling about the same amount he did last time ( maybe a few million down, but there are still results to get). Harris is currently down 15M from where Biden was.
Trump's support is no larger than it was last time. Harris' supporters just didn't show up
Harrisā supporters just didnāt show up
Anyone who didn't show up is not a Harris supporter.
No, there is a concerted effort by conservatives to use voter suppression to subvert the will of the majority in the US.
conservatives are clawing back the country right now by hook and by crook.
can't go on forever, but I don't know which is going to last longer: the country or the aging frightened conservatives willing to subvert democracy to hang on to control.
Maybe, but none of the facts directly support this.
There have been large campaigns to disenfranchise several types of voters for decades in the country. The Electoral College was designed to be unfair to appease Slave states. Voter turnout is abysmal, only about 35% of eligible citizens vote. Out of those turnout is usually around the same percentage. The highest turnout recently was 2020 only because mail in voting was expanded so dramatically, and even then it was only 67% of registered voters, so it was still only 67% of that original 37% of eligible voters. So with the highest recent turnout, we're looking at about 25% of eligible citizens actually voting.
I believe that the 67% number for the 2020 election is of eligible voters and not registered voters. While turnout is low, it's not 25% low.
It was ~67% of eligible voters that were registered to vote. Over 94% of registered voters actually voted.
Democracy really is the worst form of government, just not as bad as all the others...
Unfortunately in such polarized times like now, even though majority wants this, the ammount of people for which this is unacceptable is only slightly less than "the majority". And besides, I believe a big part of "the majority" is just gullible enough to be persuaded they want this while it actually goes against their interests
Something can not be the worst and just not as bad as the others.
It's a famous quote. The contradiction is intentional. It means democracy has a lot of problems and often looks terrible. However when you step back and consider the alternatives they are worse.
Take it up with Winston Churchil - I was just paraphrasing his quote.
The point is democracy is terrible, but we don't have anything better.
vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. Iād say Iām sorry, but I donāt think thatāll help. This is America.
America needs to focus on decentralizing power. That way, when the other side wins, they can't do much damage. Biggest problem America faces is too much centralized control.
As an American, I expected most Americans to be at least semi-rational and to recognize what a threat to democracy and our way of life that Trump is. I expected most Republicans to just vote for him out of reflex, but otherwise the rest of America would rise up in our hour of need to vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. Iād say Iām sorry, but I donāt think thatāll help. This is America.
Agree, and sadly he won the popular vote too (so far). Itās really bleak how many people donāt vote at all.
They all voted with their wallets. It's really simple. That's how these people are able to come into power.
Except Trump isn't here to help their wallets.
If they could read they would be very upset you said that
The frustrating thing is that Trump didn't even get more votes this election than he did last election. There wasn't a bunch of new Trump voters that came out of the woodwork and turned the tide. He was absolutely beatable. He only won because 15 million of the people who voted for Biden last election just didn't bother this time.
Democratic voters just arenāt dependable, or the causes that Democrats tend to champion donāt provide them any benefits. Yes, itās often the right thing to do to champion their rights or causes, but when the time comes and their help is needed, theyāre seemingly nowhere to be found because things apparently werenāt interesting enough.
A lot of progressive people also moved out of red states after all of the different nonsense happening in them. We won't know until the 2030 census if they actually do that accurately unlike the 2020 census.
Martin Niemƶllers zweite Frau (seit 1971), Sibylle von SellĀ schreibt dazu am 23.4.2000 in h-holocaust https://www.h-net.org/~holoweb/ :.ā The trouble with Martin Niemoellerās āfamous quotationā is that he never wrote it down ā which enabledĀ so many hitchhikersĀ over the years to āput themselves on the waggonā. In hisĀ āConfession of GuiltāĀ (as he called it himself: Schuldbekenntnis in German) the Communists came first, then the Trade Unionists and then the Socialists and then the Jews. NO ONE ELSE.ā
Just be grateful if you're not in one of the first groups. I spoke up as loudly as I could.
If I had that answer I would be happy to share.
The problem is that nowhere is safe now. I'm Canadian, and I wish I had somewhere to go. And just imagine how the poor sods in Palestine, Ukraine, and so many other suffering countries, are feeling right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vladimir Putin's armies weren't occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
I wouldnāt be surprised if Vladimir Putinās armies werenāt occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
And Russia will use, what? Tanks from the Cold War?! There have been many reports from professional defense intel groups and countries that report that Russia has been struggling to keep fighting the invasion of Ukraine. They've had to resort to asking North Korea to send thousands of troops to fight in Ukraine. With the weapons that the EU, Australia, Britain, and the US have been sending them, Russia is going to have a tremendously difficult time fighting back. Let alone, invading another country.
There's a theory going around that China might take action and 'take back' what they claim to have been their territory from the early 1800s. Either they capture Serbia as a whole, southern Serbia, or a large portion of Eastern Russia. Which might look like the northern point of Lake Baikal to Uda Gulf or the push further and take Taul Bay. The southern part of the Kamchatka peninsula would be advantageous to them. The US and others would have a harder time "controlling" China's fleet of ships if they had ports and bases up there as well.
I can only hold onto fool's faith for so long, that the world doesn't experience another major war.
I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.
The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn't occur in a vacuum.
Though this isn't about conservatism, is it? Trump doesn't like democracy and half of the things that shaped the USA. I mean there is some overlap but he should be opposed by any sane conservative. I think it's more a dip towards fascism or something else.
Can be a bit of both. Everything is prompted by a desire to return to the "before" times. For Trump's supporters, that is a hypothetical, undefined time when America was "great". For the Brexiters in the UK, that was the pre-EU period when Britain was a global empire. For the conservatives in Russia, it is the yearning for the USSR days.
Fair enough. I always hope we'll move towards a better future... And not backwards. But you're right. You pick some random time in history and then make up some policies that supposedly get you back to that place. And an additional psychological factor is, most of us had our best time when we were young, life was easier, less work and less consequence. So we might want that back instead of our current, more complex life.
By finally doing what it clearly needs to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.
It's funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.
In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.
Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.
If Trump truly does win, Republicans won't split the country. They'll make it even more impossible to leave.
I mean, no matter who gets kicked out by who, there would be at least two federal governments... I think most people don't realize that when a country splits, the (at least two) new entities both become independent countries with their own government...
So where do you think the lines would get drawn? West Coast and New England + New York are the obvious ones to do their own thing. Pennsylvania cuts off the DMV area from New York/New England, unless we go on a county level and excise just the area around Philly to keep the whole northeast Atlantic together.
Is Chicago just left as an island in the Midwest? The red staters certainly won't want it, and without it Illinois basically is a red state. RIP to the other midwest and southern cities too.
Colorado and New Mexico together would be quite fucked being landlocked in a sea of red otherwise.
Congratulations to Hawaii on its regained independence I guess. Alaska would probably be offered up to Putin as a thank you gift from Trump.
Do you think all the red states stay together as a single entity? Texas is an obvious candidate to decide to fuck off on its own, possibly Florida as well. But would South Carolina really care all that much to stay tied to Montana, for example, or vice versa?
America has past the point of no return on education. Anti-intellectualism is the status quo now. It's only gonna get worse now.
They won't need it.. they got people to think what it's best for them, what books are good or bad, what values you should have, how you should live.
And then they will also have chatgpt and AI that will answer their doubts and even do their work cause they won't be capable of doing it.
I wonder if the AI will get "less smart" because of their clients needs being more basic. We'll see
Fisher price ai
Waves Bible they've never read
What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc...
You're really asking, "how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?"
The answer is, generally, they don't.
I think that is an oversimplification. He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right? So we cannot accurately say that the majority is fascist. We can only say that the voting majority is fascist.
And then we need to look at who was conned, and how. Of course people who got conned need to work harder to avoid that in the future. We all agree on that. At the same time, the con artists and the people who enable the con, we also need to identify them and figure out what's making them successful. If we talk about major newspapers and TV networks failing to cover how bad Trump actually was, or putting Harris on unrealistic pedestal, newspaper owners refusing to allow newspaper editors to endorse a candidate, the way Fox News preys on people who grew up trusting TV news and now have only watched Fox for the last two decades, open lies about who's eating cats and dogs, a DNC that pushes centrist candidates even after 2016 when the weakness was exposed, and it's clear that many left-wing voters are wildly unhappy, those are all things that smaller groups have done to help create the situation that we saw yesterday. And that's just a short list.
So what I hope we can do, is I hope we can avoid saying something trite like, this is what the American people wanted, full stop. If you want to make that a conversation starter, go for it. But it shouldn't be a dismissive conversation ender, because it ignores what actually happened and What will continue to happen in the future.
He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right?
Right, the rest are just so lazy and consumed by apathy that they could not be bothered to vote when THESE were the stakes. I think we can confidently rule them out for any advocacy for our freedom.
But statistically, those who didn't vote likely have a similar ideology distribution.
You forget that he won decisively... with less votes than he got last time
Honestly at this point y'all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You'll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.
Russia's been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don't see why Americans should do any different.
FWIW a candidate the left could vote for instead of someone to vote against would help.
It would.
But I think that ship has sailed.
And honestly it might be the third-worlder-accustomed-to-things-being-uttter-bullshit in me. But I think "Winning back the country" is an unrealistic and foolhardy goal. Everyone who is on the radar for being harmed by Trump should look out for themselves and their own. Which includes "getting the fuck out of the country" if that is what it takes.
Additionally: A significant portion of the country won today. They got exactly what they wanted. And pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one's own ears.
I'd recommend assassination, in Minecraft. If you're leaving the server and everything is fucked then do one for the team and cause some heads to roll, in Minecraft. The right used violence and it led to the presidency. A coup was rewarded. Let's take some notes.
I am going to commit several violent acts (in Stellaris)
pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering oneās own ears.
See, I think it's mixed. You're absolutely right that people voted for this. At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point. Authoritarianism has been low-key popular at least since the 90s (maybe earlier, but the 90s was when I started school, and learned by experience that fascism is how the school system operates.) People are scared to rock the boat against their "leaders," and given enough time, this is the result.
I wish I had time right now to write more about this, because there is some deep psychological manipulation that's embedded in the fabric of this country. It doesn't excuse people's behaviors, but knowing how and why they operate is crucial to understanding the big picture.
At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point
See you're right but --
-- Those monied interests are also coming from within. The wealthy and powerful from America who see this as a way to consolidate and protect their own wealth and power.
Silicon Valley wanted Neofascism. Wall Street wanted Neofascism. Fracking Barons like the Koch Brother(s) wanted Neofascism. Some out in the open, like the afore-mentioned Koch(s) and Elon Musk, but make no mistake, every billionaire who "shuts up about politics" is most likely a Neofascist in private, because this benefits them.
The people in America are heavily propagandised, but that propaganda is funded and developed by and for the benefit of the wealthy within America itself.
Some people lean really hard into the whole "russian influence" thing because it is comforting. And it is entirely possible that there ARE Russian fingers in this pie -- Russia does benefit from a weakened America, in any way they CAN weaken it. Heck, China and the Middle Eastern powers do too, so maybe they have fingers in that pie too.
But never forget that it started with wealthy Americans, and not some foreign agent. And if every foreign influence walked away, it would continue without them.
Theoretically, The Revolutionā¢ that lefties like me talk about could change things. Just like theoretically, a peaceful political reform could change things. Theoretically.
But I'm from the third world. Hopelessness is my bread and butter rice and beans. So I'm entirely accustomed to daydreaming of one day things changing, while expecting elections to change nothing, and knowing for a fact that any attempt at armed fighting would most likely end in a victory for the bad guys (they have the bigger guns).
The idea of "things are already fucked, have been since before you were born, if you want to make a difference, look out for yourself and those you CAN help, make a difference in the micro, because The System as a macro thing is outside your reach entirely" is in fact how most people have dealt with things since forever, and we survive.
It sounds like weāre on the same page. I didnāt mention foreign influence, only monied influence, which is the same thing youāre saying.
My point was that these influences previously existed in the U.S. long before now. They didnāt materialize out of the blue. Anyone whoās been explicitly anti-fascist prior to the past decade knows that there was already an undercurrent pulling people in that direction.
I appreciate hearing your perspective, and youāre absolutely on point. One thing I know for sure is that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Pretty sure Trump said we wouldn't have to worry about voting anymore. It would all be taken care of.
Damn, and europe already has a lot of refugees to deal with :p
This has actually all been a very elaborate "come to Brazil" meme on my part.
Jokes aside, given how a lot of our people tend to worship the floor 'Murica walks on, if a bunch of refugees from the US came over, they'd probably be welcomed with open arms. :P
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I'd like to learn more about
Facism is capitalism in decay.
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
italy (1920's) voters wanted a stronger economy with trains to run on time
germany (1920's) voters wanted a stronger economy without a destabilization of currency
Is that just a think people say or are there studies or books about this?
Until America wants to be tolerant of more than intolerance, it seems it will vote with its penises, wallets, and weapons.
Edit: unnecessary apostrophe
No, no, it's fine. Americans don't know how to use apostrophes properly.
The average death age of any empire is 250 years.
Tick tock America. You're proving that figure to be correct.
*proved
Hope there will be a legitimate election in 2028, and show up to the fucking primary before it and in 2026.
I think Trump won because of the economy. Yes, he has a rabid base that really does want his fascism, but the voters who pushed him over the edge are ones suffering because inflation and the wealth gap that has just been allowed to increase unimpeded. Those voters donāt want fascism - theyāre just dumb AF and donāt pay attention. They just voted for āchange.ā
These problems will only increase over the next 4 years, so there will be another opportunity defy the status quo in 2028. We had a chance and failed to do in 2016. We came closer in 2020. We didnāt have a real primary in 2024. When we get to 2028, itās time to fucking do it.
Ah yes, because nothing says "change" like "unchecked conservatism"
Well I did say they are dumb AF.
Here's the thing... He said he would bring change. Biden, and Harris after, both said that things would basically stay the same. For a lot of people, that's an active issue they're dealing with everyday.
The politicians just don't understand because they haven't lived like normal people for decades, if ever given the history and family of many of them.
I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we'd have a chance. There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There's nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We're about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We're about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn't actually believe that they're just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We're better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren't going away.
Even this election wasn't right versus left it's right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they're just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines.
Given that the Democrats have known the districts have been gerrymandered to hell and back for decades now, why haven't they spent any time at all doing their own redistricting, rather than strongly pushing agendas that affect 0.5% of the country?
Oh dems have. But you have to have control of the state to do that. Hogan (R governor) tried his damnest to unwrap central Maryland from Western Maryland.
The first bill filed in the House of Representatives and Senate after the 2020 election which resulted in the Democratic Party gaining nominal control of Congress and the White House was a bill to ban partisan gerrymandering, require independent redistricting committees, forbid states from imposing onerous voter registration or identification regulations, limit the influence of rich donors and wealthy PACs in federal elections, and generally just make the process of voting better for Americans.
This bill was called the Freedom to Vote Bill and was numbered H.R. 1 and S. 1 for the House and Senate versions, respectively. It passed the House of Representatives in 3 March 2021 and received unanimous support among the 50 Democratic senators when the Senate held its vote on 22 June 2021. The bill was blocked from advancing due to a Republican filibuster.
On 3 January 2022, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced plans to abolish the filibuster for legislation in order to allow this bill to advance. President Joe Biden had previously indicated he would sign the bill. Schumer made his move on 19 January 2022, moving to change the filibuster rule to require continuous talking, i.e. in order to filibuster a bill, someone must make a speech and keep talking for the duration of the filibuster, with the filibuster ending when they finish talking. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, members of the Democratic Party representing Arizona and West Virginia, respectively, got squeamish and voted against the change. All Republican senators voted against the change. This doomed the bill's passage through Congress as the filibuster could be maintained indefinitely by the Republicans.
The bill died when Congress was dissolved pending the November 2022 general election, in which Republicans won a narrow majority in the House of Representatives.
Manchin and Sinema's terms with both expire when the new Congress is convened on 3 January 2025 following the November 2024 general election. Manchin did not seek re-election in yesterday's election and will retire at the expiration of his term. Sinema was forced out of the Democratic Party and originally planned to stand as an independent before deciding against it. She will retire at the end of her term.
Due to the innate malapportionment of the Senate, it is exceedingly unlikely that the Democratic Party will ever regain majority control of the Senate.
So I point my finger at these two idiots for sinking American democracy as we know it.
Even that doesn't address the mess that exists today. It's a great example of why they keep losing. They're going to make it impossible to gerrymander after the lines have already been redrawn to benefit the Republicans? Why? Why would they do that? They're essentially committing to always fighting an uphill battle for the rest of their days. I respect the principle, but not the approach. You cant lock a scale while it's broken and then expect it to measure correctly. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and start playing to win. To start recognizing the strategies which continually defeat them, and start countering with some equally aggressive strategies of their own, or their time is done.
I think I phrased my comment wrong on this. It doesn't ban the act of gerrymandering, it bans the results of gerrymandering. Gerrymandered maps would need to be redrawn had the bill been enacted.
This bill was no slouch. It directly abridged several states' voter suppression laws. Had the bill passed, the next phase would have been people being able to use the federal courts to strike back against these incompatible laws.
That being said, if you were the leader of the Democratic Party, what would you have done? Not intended as rhetorical snark, I'm just curious as to what other ideas there are.
Okay, then that sounds reasonable. Regarding your question, I suppose I would have held a primary and put someone on the final ballot who the people voted for. That would have required acknowledging before the primaries that Biden wasn't fit to continue, which from what I've read, they did have full knowledge of, but refused to act upon.
That's easier said than done though. Right? Like I'm not directly exposed to the corruption inherent in the system and the demands placed upon them in order to secure enough campaign funds to have a chance at all. Although I don't think sticking to the actual system as it was designed would cause the loss of donors.
Oh, and I'd get rid of the super delegates. In short, I'd stop trying to control who gets on the final ballot to push my party agenda, and instead let the people actually elect the leader they want. Again though, that's probably a lot easier said than done, and I'm an outsider not privy to the dealings that take place behind closed doors.
I have to agree with you there. I think the Democratic Party was scared of inviting infighting with a primary contest which Harris would probably win anyway, but you're rightāHarris had no mandate from the party membership and even a lightning-round primary conducted online would have been better.
I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
I don't understand this sentiment as I'm hearing it a lot.
We've elected a fascist into the highest office. We're cooked. There's a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I'm not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.
I donāt understand this sentiment
Thereās a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing
You're going to organize against half the US? Gonna start a civil war with every last (fully armed) enemy in your own backyard?
They could blockade cities from food and shut down any movement in 3 days.
The Civil War worked efficiently because there was a battlefront. This is more of a Republican Soup.
Good luck with your local police. They'll get a federal warrant and gleefully raid your home at 3 am.
See, there's the horrifying possibility that they just did and this is what Americans are.
Eh, forget it. they probably need a minute before reckoning with that one.
That's the thing .. looks like he'll win the populist vote..
You're not "taking your country back" this is your country...
Not being American, I will need some convincing about why the US doesn't belong in the same bucket as, say, Hungary or Turkey. If you keep self inflicting the rule of strongmen and their oligarch cronies at some point that's a core feature.
Sadly, for the next four years, we belong in that bucket.
Wait 2 years, and hopefully put people who will mitigate the damage into the positions listed on your ballot. All you can do now as a law abiding citizen is wait.
I fear that the next election will be more ceremony than democracy once they have finished rigging it. At this point, I expect a third term for Trump - if he lives that long.
He won't. The goal was to get Vance in all along. He's a docile pet for Thiel and co to implement their fascist agenda.
Your fear of a 3rd term makes it all the more important to vote in your future elections. As the two term limit is imposed through a constitutional amendment, they'd need to create another constitutional amendment to reverse it. They need 2/3rds of both the house and the senate to agree to even get the ball rolling, as such, it is vital that you do what you can to prevent them from acquiring those numbers to avoid that situation.
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
I don't think they need a constitutional amendment, just Scotus ruling that it only applies to consecutive terms, for example.
And then 8 years of the President and VP switching places.
It worked for his pal, Putin...
I know the supreme Court is heavily biased at the moment, but what possible logic could they use to get out of the 22nd amendment saying "no person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice"? They can't just add words there, and it isn't ambiguous at all
I think you underestimate them. And if they do, who will you complain to anyway?
If they attempt to abolish term limits I think we're actually going to see a civil war.
I would hope so, but americans have proven time and time again that they are spineless.
That's the plot of the Civil War movie from this year. Nick Offerman and his nameless party started a 3rd presidential term.
If Republicans remove term limits, it would be amazing to see Obama instantly get reelected for a third term in 2028.
That being said, the USA may not get another legitimate election (help us).
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
Fat fuck will die inside of 4 years. So, itāll get worse.
I admire your positivity
THIS is the moment where everyone should be creating 3rd party candidates and going to the streets to spread awareness for the next election.
Not 6 months before the election with trump as a possibility. Get out there and promote 3rd party now, when people are pissed at Democrats for throwing it all away for Israel and people are pissed the trump won.
IMO third party is not viable unless we change our voting system, but people keep voting out the progressive reform party so fat chance.
EDIT: 100% for independents in Congress tho, as long as it doesnt split the vote for progressives.
Do you really think they lost over their stance on Israel/Palestina? Not saying it doesn't matter. But I feel if you see how many votes republicans got, that a lot of (perceived) domestic issues played a very big role.
20 million people did not stay home over Palestine. People aware of that issue are also acutely aware of the fact Trump would be worse.
Apparently a lot of apathy among dem voters, or they also think a strongman for a while would be OK.
"Next election" is the issue here.
Those playbooks are for democracy. This is different territory now.
The polls say the economy was the reason, not foreign policy.
Ruling parties are being flipped all over the world because inflation has been bad since Covid. It's a pity your only other option was Trump.
Yep. Rough economic times seem to cause the incumbent pres to lose. People seem to think the president controls the economy.
It can get worse!
No, 3rd party will always be spoiler at best with the election system we have... Now is the time to figure out who runs the local Dems in your state/county/city/town and take them over... We need to take over the Dems and transition them to the party of the future
They just did. They'll happily lie in the bed they shat in at first. By the time they realize their mistake, it will be too late.
A cancer metastasizing is the opposite of Americans winning their country back.
They were referring to what the slack jawed morons who voted for trump think
It'll be when a dem takes control and they'll blame the fallout on that person. Same as usual.
Go to your Democratic party and demand change.
Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.
Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.
Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.
I like the sentiment, but that is predicated on there being another election under the same rule set which would allow either party to win. If things come to pass with the unitary executive theory outlined in Project 2025 and the dictatorship desires that have already been declared, makes it unlikely votes will work to change political parties going forward...
And the "deep state", meaning actual subject matter experts doing their jobs throughout government for years, regardless of current administration, are all going to be replaced by kid rock and vaping young republicans fresh from dropping out of their second semester in at The University of Southern Alabama State.
That's who's going to be the dude inspecting your meat for e.coli and signing off on the clinical trials for you've perception meds - Gunner, Hunter and Ryder.
Really don't think anyone is considering the reality of how deeply fucked we're going to be looking at the front door for obvious signs of trouble, while they leaf the crawlspace with fertilizer and gasoline and kick in the backdoor with flamethrowers in hand.
Some of this outcome will depend on how effectively they execute. But let's say they do. Then. in the paraphrased words of JFK:
"He who makes reform impossible. makes revolution inevitable."
Now that isn't a pretty future, or a nice future. But that's what happens when a people resigns itself to performing democracy instead of protecting it.
You get it
I'll also add that you need to primary basically anyone that has been in politics for more than 15 years. There is just too much, "common sense," in this party that is just wrong. In 2016, it was smart to run a centrist campaign that tried to move moderates away from Trump, and it failed. In 2024, they ran the same fucking campaign, and it failed.
There are well intentioned people that somehow still think that the 1992, third-way strategy will deliver gains through incrementalism, and it's just not going to happen. Primary them, so that they at least have to contend with the new political realities. Trump picked up working class voters across across all demographics, not just the white working class. Everyone wants change; offer real change.
Biden could do some official acts. But he won't.
But he won't
Should be the DNC motto.
Gallows humor is all we've got left
He should at least transfer a shitton of military gear to Ukraine in the coming days. Not little stuff either.
Top-tier tanks, jets, warships, and more. Enough to absolutely crush the Russian war machine. Basically everything shy of nukes and loads of it.
It's been "too late" for 'mericans to "win back the country" for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it's very non-democratic.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I'd say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
Quite the change from 2016, when he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million. Congrats, 'murica.
Yeah we are not trending in the right direction here.
People don't vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn't a great standard to go by either, it's a product of the system as well
If you had 100% turnout the popular vote would be very different.
People donāt vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isnāt a great standard to go by either, itās a product of the system as well
My area is such a strong republican district that my vote is functionally irrelevant aside from the president. Hell, they didn't even bother with democrat candidates on a local level.
If that were me I would run as an independent, people love that on a local level. "I'm putting town/county first!" And say I'm going to fix the roads people LOVE talking about how bad the roads are when it comes to local politics.
There's a lot of fuckery that happened since before and after the election. They fucked with the census to give red states more ec votes. They changed voting rules and redistricted in many states. They got ballots thrown out in certain areas. Yesterday the voting computer system in my (blue) county didn't work for the first two hours fortunately I voted early. There's also a lot more nuanced targeted misinformation out there now. People have these ideas in their heads and I have no clue where they came from. I block ads all the time but I imagine places like TikTok can easily manipulate people without anybody around them knowing about it.
They're the political opposition now. They should do what good opposition work includes. Hold the government accountable, force them to deliver results. Make the people pay attention and realize if their bills become less or more expensive. And I'd say re-consider life-choices. And make some fundamental changes. Maybe start a new political party if the Democrats are beyond hope.
Americans have lost. Bestyou can do is try to save NATO.
Realistically? It's too late.
We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".
It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.
This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.
Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.
It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.
There's nothing to win back, this is America, always has been.
You let it burn.
Yup, progressive politics in the US has been an exception not the rule. After about ~30 years we are just going back to business as usual. People forget segregation and women not being able to have their own bank accounts and abortion being illegal (the first time), is not something from ancient history. And before that the country literally went to war over itself over the idea that they should be able to own other huma s as property
These things are all true. But the history tended to go the progress direction. Slavery was abolished, so was segregation, women got more and more of their rights. Things were gradually and often painfully getting better. Now it regresses.
It's going to take us at least a couple decades to get back on track. At that point I'll be near retirement age. Yeah history progresses, but for me personally it's over.
So the way it looks now, Trump has won the presidency, and his allies will have the senate and house of representatives, and they already had the supreme court. The three branches of government will not be working as checks on each other's power, unless we get very lucky and the various factions that make up the GOP split. This is obviously very, very bad, but there are still some checks on presidential power.
Trump's last term was a clusterfuck. Things may just be so disorganized that he struggles to actually get what he wants done.
The states have limited power to defy the feds. While case law does state that federal law supercedes state law, that doesn't mean all States will immediately cooperate wholeheartedly. Obviously a court battle will eventually get to the supreme court, but that takes time and requires a single panel of judges to beat multiple states into line on each new policy.
Governments do have a small amount of caution when it comes to their people. One thing the crazy conservatives had right this whole time was that fundamentally, nobody was ever going to come for their guns because nobody wants to force a confrontation with a bunch of armed lunatics. In the same way, they'll probably try to avoid massive riots and general strikes simply because it isn't worth the fight to whoever is responsible.
Citizens can resist. Go to protests, donate to political advocacy organizations (the ACLU will have its work cut out for it), and for Christ's sake, go vote! Show up every year, just not every 4 years. Without the cooperation of congress, his power would be significantly curtailed.
If nothing else, terms are limited. In 2 years we can swing congress. He isn't going to be able to pass a constitutional amendment to do what he likes before that. If we swing congress in two years, it will slow him down significantly, and then we can replace him in 2028. Hopefully people will actually keep showing up long enough after that to reverse all the damage he's likely to do in the next 4 years.
The states have limited power to defy the feds.
Case in point: legalized marijuana. That said, my fear in regards to states defying laws is:
Targeted attacks by MAGA terrorists, particularly regarding anything LGBTQ+ or reproductive healthcare related.
The fed withholding federal funds to punish states that don't fall in line.
The former is particularly concerning as police and the national guard are predominately right-wing. My state passed the SAFE-T Act to address abuses in the police/justice system. Naturally, various police departments weren't happy about this, and through obtuse interpretation of the act they'll claim they can't legally do vital parts of their job -- something I've seen multiple times first hand. Refusing to do their job competently in response to MAGA terrorism isn't hard to imagine.
The later gets tricky. Most of the states that would push back against unjust federal laws are also states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive in aid. The "obvious" solution withhold tax dollars going to the fed to make up the difference ... which would be next to impossible in practice. Even if states mange to do it they'd be playing into Republican hands by defunding essential federal services.
you organize to pressure the burgeoise, as always, because they are the ones funding every winning political candidate.
except for americans fascism seem to be tolerable but god forbid you learn from marxism and socialism.
"Americans" did win their country back. We aren't welcome in it anymore.
Maybe Biden could pack the Supreme Court before leaving office.
It wouldn't be a great idea in the long run, but it'd potentially stop the entire system from functioning right now.
He should have expanded it as soon as he was elected.
My only real conclusion is that they're all in on it.
Biden had four years and still has a few months for sweeping executive orders. If he doesn't at least try, he's a fucking coward or on the payroll.
Packing the court requires legislation, in which he needs Congress to send him a bill, and between the Republican House and the Filibuster in the Senate that was never happening.
They're trying to get liberals banned by coaxing out suggestions of terrorism
Americans HAVE their country, this is what they want, this is what they voted for. Stop treating Americans as if this is something pressed upon them. They chose this. Now they will live with the consequences.
a third of us chose this, while half of us couldn't be bothered to give a shit.
sanity is an oppressed minority in the us, and it's worse than I ever could have thought.
couldnāt be bothered to give a shit
Which means they chose this too. The only people without any culpability are the ones who voted for Harris or who for many reasons were not able to vote.
Doesn't mean that the people who did not vote are as much at fault as the ones voting for Trump, but they share part of the blame.
Yep Imma stand back and watch it all go to absolute hell and I'll be pleased knowing they brought it on themselves.
Same. America, I loved you, but it's not me, it's you.
Education, unfortunately those in the most need of it are out of an educational institution so they will only be fed on a diet of commercialism and disinformation.
They don't. It was never their country to begin with, clearly.
The majority of the U.S. has been racist, bigoted, misogynists from the beginning. Hell, the entire electoral college system that just fucked everyone over is a compromise that was put into place because a bunch of rich white landowners in the Antebellum south couldn't stand the idea of freed black men's votes having as much power as theirs. So they immediately rigged the system to keep them in control of who gets power because you better believe no black man was ever going to be an elector.
That is who your country is. There was a brief period from the 60s to the 80s where it became declasse to be an asshole, and so they mostly shut up during that time when they were in public, and then went home and took out their frustration by beating their wives and kids.
Then along came the modern republican party, who began to tear down that cloak of respectability, and it emboldened all of those wife beating shit-heads to say "Hey...we can be assholes again...go us."
This is your America. It always has been. I'm sorry if that hurts. I really am. But right now I'm also goddamned angry at your country on behalf of my country and all the others that have to be caught in the blast.
That's how I see it and I'm sure many like me (not us citizens) will start to see it.
People aren't being fooled, they like what they see in it when they voted. At least half Americans do
By watering the tree of liberty?
With urine?
No, blood from fascists
I think that first you have to start by admitting two things:
Americans did win their/your election
Americans have l9st faith in their democratic institutions
After that, you can look at why the Democratic parties fail to appeal to Americans, and try to reform them.
If you go outside of democracy to gain democracy, then you probably lose what's left of your democracy.
We engage in democracy.
Harris was a terrible candidate who was forced into the race. I was hoping she could pull it off but it's pretty clear that what we needed was for Biden to step down before the primary so that we could have a real election.
Trump by all metrics is a much much worse candidate. The democrats should have been able to run a literal turd and still win. It's not about the policies, Trump ran a cult and it worked. Its absolutely mental.
I majority of Americans think thats what theyve just done.
A majority of the voters. 72{ish. We're still counting)mil is not the majority.
As someone from a country with mandatory voting i will not take a single second of any shit argument that hinges itself on people too lazy or stupid to excise their right to have a say in their own future. If u didnt vote then ur opinion and value for the purposes of political disscussion are 0.
Most Americans like and support Trump. That IS America.
Now that is something to think about.. sad really
Yeah. Most people are probably experiencing the shock of what they thought the American people were vs what they are. It's hard to understand and accept.
As foreigners, our views are heavily affected by things like Hollywood, celebrity and visibility to the "best of America". But the bulk of America is not that, at all. So the veneer is torn away and it's jarring to most people.
The only positive I see in all this is that we get to watch the US get what they voted for. Pain can be a teacher, but I doubt they can learn from it. Any and all agony from this will just be the other parties fault, always. Too much venom and malice in the politics and too little earnest substance.
Yup, if we learn anything we will definitely have forgotten it in four years.
Yup, it's the election where hate won.
Win it back from who?
Other Americans who made this choice know who Trump is and thats what they want.
The Rich have always owned this country. No one is taking anything from them. Its illegal to try.
Yup. Americans just won their country back, unfortunately.
If Trump actually won, it is too late. Time to make plans to leave if you can, otherwise, prepare for the worst
Got any tips to get started on that? I've got a wife and kids to take with me, so emigration will be complicated.
When will countries start accepting US asylum seekers?
Don't call yourself an asylum seeker. Generally the rest of the world welcomes American immigrants, but we all get a bit antsy when it comes to helping people who actually need help.
If you got skills, pick a country and go to their immigration website. They will happily walk you through the process.
Well, it varies country by country but if you apply as a refugee/asylum seeker that usually includes your family. There may be some other options for becoming a resident, but this varies a lot depending of the country
Come to Australia mate
We will send our rejects to America in exchange
What a tweest!
Apparently, the majority of Americans believe they won back their country yesterday. Looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote. That's where we are.
See, this is why I rent.
As if the majority had a fucking choice.
Yes. It is too late. This was the inevitable outcome. Sooner or later.
Dems here are like UK Labor. They're a right wing party who occasionally cosplays as a left leaning one when they need to. They stand as the bullwark against any form of left wing populism. And they've done their job to the letter.
Our economy is almost entirely debt driven financialization and gambling. There is another subprime mortgage crisis brewing. Exactly the same as the one in '08, except way bigger. And our economy is far more precarious than it was then.
The Democratic Party needs to run a candidate that is elected through a fair primary process. When this happens, dems win.
2008 - Obama was popular and won the primary
2012 - same
2016 - It was deemed Clintonās turn, she was given every advantage, and lost
2020 - Biden won the primary as elected by the people, then won again
2024 - Harris was given the candidacy without having to primary, and lost
It is a simple trend.
Though to be fair, Biden won the (practically uncontested) primaries in 2024 and probably would have gotten his shit stomped in just as hard
I wouldnāt call the 2024 primaries fair. Biden was ordained, like Clinton.
Thereās a reason these predetermined candidates keep losing.
Yeah, I probably should've put won in quotes, but I'd argue there's still a small difference between running as the incumbent and the situation with Clinton. Not that it really fucking matters now.
Biden was losing 2020 by an embarrassing margin until ALL the other candidates except Bernie Sanders dropped out to coalesce behind Biden in SC.
Whatever happened to Liz "et tu, Brute" Warren?
Legally, there are a couple challenges to be made to his eligibility that will likely be brought by some states. The main one that comes to mind is If there is a case for insurrection then the 14th amendment applies.
Another potential is the 25th amendment. This would require J.D. Vance to get half of the cabinet on board to remove Trump from power. I'm wondering if this is something that is already in the works considering J.D. Vance's true feelings for Trump that were revealed in the past. It's probably a long shot, but who knows.
We radicalize, organize, pour into our communities, support one another, find people already doing the work and join in, and keep fighting like hell.
The us is ground hog day, they won't win it back instead they will spend two years bickering then two years bad mouthing and it will continue to repeat as they believe they've got 'democracy' you guys don't your being played by the political elites and the capitalist. Also stop throwing liberal around as a broad left notion, liberalism is an insult to any leftist.
If you want change then join a socialist party that is connected to an international. Make moves in unions. Build workers power. Be willing to fight. Educate yourselves so you can educate others. Marxism isn't some silly notion or wond waving. Its a scientific approach to a healthy and just society, Karl Marx watched the birth of global capitalism, predicted its failures: failures we are still seeing today, and sort to tackle the issue with years of research and analysis. What he made is a solid base for us to build on.
Win back? This country was bought and paid for long before any of us were alive. We keep fighting against the oligarhy for liberty and freedom like we've always done.
Regardless of your views on the Orange Grifter / Gift from God (delete as applicable) this question is fundamentally flawed. āHow do we build bridges, find common ground and begin to win over our fellow US citizens who have, in my opinion, made a poor and misinformed political choice that could have terrible consequences for them, our country and the world at large?ā might be a more appropriate opener. I understand youāre upset, scared, desolate etc but your language comes off as belligerent and aggressive. Perhaps soften your tone and be more receptive to othersā concerns. For the record, Iāve got no flies on this turd as Iām not from the US, nor do I live there. Good luck.
The Republicans are running on a platform of attacking the rights of racial minorities, and the right for trans people to exist
And the people who vote for them like the pain they cause or are so checked out they don't know/care
Idk if there is a way to work with people who's political agenda is to kill you
If over half of your active voters want to kill people as part of a national policy then youāre probably fucked beyond repair as a people and a nation. My condolences.
I didn't particularly care for all of Harris's positions and history, but I voted for her. I know many who felt the same. Even considering attacks on ballot drop boxes and such, based on what I've read so far, the majority of voting Americans picked the... Well, the one whom appears to have won.
So, to me, the question is not the one you proposed. The question to me is more along the lines of getting more voters/engagement and the like. To your actual question: they actually got it back and it makes me feel sick and ashamed, but that is the reality as much as I despise it.
Wait till next election. Trump can only run for two terms.
One would hope that is the caseā¦
There will come a time when Trump is not physically able to keep campaigning. You might not be rid of MAGA come that day, but Trump won't last forever.
Putin also was able to only serve for two terms, so he replaced himself with a crony until he could change the law to remove term limits...
Thank god he's old, then, because he's not going to last long enough to be long time dictator. But maybe thats not the point, even if trump is gone, if hardcore republicans dismantle elections to ensure they're perpetually in power, then who the current figurehead is will be the least of our problems
Electoral whiplash is such a waste of time
With the current rules, which he now has 4 years to repeal.
I guess they already did. That's what they wanted and voted for.
"They" being about 37% of voters.
Too late for that.
I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil.
Firstly, undestanding what left actually is would be a good start. You're not talking about the left. You're talking about liberals. Liberalism isn't left. Liberalism is right-wing, and always have been.
Secondly, a good second step would be to finally accept that liberals, and liberalism in general, has never, and will never, oppose fascism.
Those are two very basic things you can do right now.
The left is such a small population in the US, it's irrelevant. If we are to believe Trump's rhetoric, any group that becomes too much of a nuisance will be deemed "the enemy within," and be shot.
The left is such a small population in the US, itās irrelevant.
And yet this "irrelevant" left managed to beat the far-right off the streets despite the far-right enjoying the support and protection of the police, not to mention luxurious funding. You don't have to believe me, you can hear it from a Neo-Nazi himself.
It's almost like... if you were to stop paying attention to the liberal gaslighting you might realize the answer was right in front of you all this time.
Ok, yes, I support actions like these, and they are good for community defense against small civilian fascist groups. There are not the numbers to counter organizations like FBI, DHS, or national guard though. Things are a bit different when the fascist group you're trying to counter is the federal or state government with the will to kill and immunity from their actions.
They will over the next 4 years. Elections swing back and forth. Midterms will probably be greatly fir democrats
Yes, with full control over all 3 branches, fanatacist support groups and a stated desire to overthrow the previous norms and standards in order to build permanent total control, I'm sure the midterms and next election will totally take place and absolutely swing back to the Dems.
If the Communists are willing to do what they say we need to do. This is a big "if" that I don't see any evidence for.
If you read communist theory you'd understand that revolution isn't easy, it takes multiple factors such as the current state of capitalism, class contusness and the global landscape. Once these things align we will witness the capitalist unable to deliver for the demands of the majority and the mass populous will soon realise how akin to slaves we are at that point the workers will fight back. I'm personally very active in my party building workers power through unions, attending demos and dispensing theory, a few months ago I traveled to Germany for a 5 day conference. It is only through these actions we can see change. It takes 15 present of the population to create real change so while you might feel content sitting around criticing our efforts you could be down here helping your comrades, the international group my party is linked to sent a dozen sp member to chilly to help in revolutionary action so rest assured that we are doing some heavy lifting.
I want to help. Do you have any advice? This has convinced me I have a moral imperative but I don't even know where to start.
Read The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engle's, then State and Revolution by Lenin or even audiobook which are both on YouTube. Its important because they both outline the reasoning and the conviction needed. Then you'll want to find a socialist/communist group that suits you, I'm a marxist, my ideas of socialism diverge with the appearance of Stalin. If your in the united states we have a trotskyist party who I've spoken to personally and theyre a good lot, your best bet would be to visit https://www.socialistworld.net/category/international/ this is the international body I work under and many other countries also work under.
Hope you find a suitable space comrade. Feel free to contact me if you need any further assistance or just to let me know how your getting on.
Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority.
I think that most of the Americans want this, even if people on the outside do not understand. So in that sense they are right now winning back their country, as confusing as it might sound.
Normally in Democracy the majority or popular vote wins, however due to the electoral college America has, it doesnt necessarily mean the majority voted for the winner. This was the case for Bush, and some other moments in the past.
FYI: it looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote on this one as well.
How in the fuck.
Like what drives a majority of Americans to vote for a demented toddler. It's insane.
As a kid I always wondered how on Earth did Hitler ever make anyone follow himself, how did those people not realise. Turns out a majority of people are just fucking morons.
Yep and the slow gutting of the education system isn't making it any better.
You have an entire generation coming of voting age who are rabid Trump supporters. They don't care about policies or democracy or public institutions. They don't care about healthcare, social securities, or the stability of the economy.
They don't care about any of the things that have been built up through generations. They lack critical thinking ability.
The recipe works. If you make dumb kids they will vote for dumb people. It works so well that part of the future plan for a trump presidency is to get rid of the department of education. Solidifying the Republican party indefinitely.
Without critical thinking and with mass media it's so easy to say every problem that people deal with is because the "other side" made it so. Even if the other side has been doing everything possible to achieve the opposite.
Americans aren't special. They're just as vulnerable to fascism as anybody else.
The MAGATs might as well be wearing brownshirts and saluting like Mussolini.
Blaming young people is up their with blaming immigrants and "gays" ect for [insert topic]. I would be very surprised if this was the case.
I think it's a little more nuanced.
They don't blame young people. They blame lack of education.
I used to think Ukrainian politicians were fucking clowns. I guess we got outclowned.
For all practical purposes, about 30% of people are unfeeling morons - basically psychopaths. Thatās the number that consistently opposes abortion, for instance. Add to that all the dumbasses who donāt know any better (the undecideds on any extremely obvious moral issue), et voila. Thatās how you get slavery, nationalism, genocide, theocracy, you name it.
Unless people are willing to screen for psychopathy and remove it from the gene pool, the human species will keep fucking around until it finds out. Might be nuclear apocalypse or environmental collapse, but at this rate itās inevitable.
Can we please not start arguing in favor of eugenics?
The rise of the NSDAP has been studied quite a bit. Also, the psychological aspects are really interesting. Basically normal people can make all of this possible as long as the conditions are just right.
Hate.
Well they're making plenty more of that to go around
There are many leftists and minorities that have "voted strategically" time and time and time again only for things to get worse and worse.
This kind of disenfranchisement leads to apathy and low turnout.
We are told from a young age that our vote matters, and then when we are older we are told you can only vote for red fascist or blue fascist and many choose not to participate.
There are more who did not vote than who voted for Trump. This is not what the majority wants, but with the system as it is, it is not possible for the majority to voice what they actually genuinely want and have a chance to get it.
The votes do not have to be rigged at the ballot box for voting as a whole system to be rigged.
Americans voted in Reagan twice. They also elected Bush twice. This is not surprising.
Non mandatory voting wouldnt help, being that its more susceptible to eroding a merit process from campaigns of fear or otherwise.
It's the low turn out. Too many of us are nonparticipants
And I was so loving Lina Khan's FTC,
askingamong other things...Edit: autocorrect
And Harris has done worse than Biden in every county in America.
Not every state. Every county.
Perhaps these two factors contributed to this:
While I'm sure the statement "some Americans just don't want a female president" is true, I think the vast majority of them were going to vote Republican basically no matter what.
To paraphrase the conversation that took place on the left:
"The DNC isn't doing well among young straight white men and it's getting worse. Barack Obama polled at 66% favorable among that demographic in 2008, and that number has fallen every election until now Harris is polling in the low 40s. There's a lot of them, and we're losing them." A hot mic caught Kamala herself saying exactly that. "We're losing men."
Responds the feminists, "Look at the pathetic men throwing a fit because they're not fully in charge. Something something privilege something something patriarchy. Be better." I'll note this didn't come from Kamala's campaign, it came from the faceless rabble. The people who said "Yeah no we should probably also talk about issues that are important to men" got shouted down. So white men see that as "The people who vote for this candidate hate me no matter what, and yet they demand my vote no matter what."
Kamala started this race as Biden's running mate, then Biden showed up in "mummified during the 6th dynasty of the Old Kingdom" condition at that first debate. No time for a primary, Biden's out and Kamala's in. Now she needs a running mate. They put out an APB for a white guy preferably from the south but the midwest will do. There was some brief discussion of North Carolina governor Roy Cooper, well-liked lame duck democrat from a former confederate state, ticks all those boxes. But we landed on Tim Walz. As far as I can tell he was a genuinely solid choice; I'd never heard of him before he was announced as a short runner for Harris' running mate. Every headline I read about the guy was some new and exciting way he was a saint. Almost suspiciously so. He's still the only one on the campaign trail who I'd lend a lawnmower to.
Problem #1: We heard the APB as it went out. Here's my turn to get shouted down: This works on women, muslims, and a significant number of black men, because those demographics have an automatic in-group dynamic. You see posts talking about "My boyfriend was talking to me at the gym and a woman I've never met before comes up to pretend to be my friend. I see u gurl." So both Hilary and Kamala had the white chick vote sewn up just for existing while female. Obama, to a slightly lesser extent, had a similar effect among black men. That doesn't work on white guys, or at least, the white guys that does work on are very reliable Republican voters.
But, credit where credit is due, Walz seems like a solid guy. If they hadn't announced out loud they picked him to identity pander I wouldn't have noticed.
Problem #2: The next time I saw Walz, he was on a commercial cosplaying as a straight white man. "Governor Walz here in a camouflage hat with a dog. Watch me perform a minor repair on an antique SUV." They ran ads that literally said "I bet you're tired of hearing how much white guys suck. I mean, some of them do..." That same ad says "They're really talkin' to guys like us." No they weren't.
They ran ads talking about "I'm a REAL MAN and I'm MAN enough to vote for a WOMAN."
I didn't see Tim Walz talking about "The boys who played on my football team are struggling to afford homes. They're choosing not to get married or have children because for an increasing number of young men it's just not in the cards." No I heard a doughy guy dressed like a cowboy say "I eat carburetors for breakfast."
Among a male loneliness epidemic they ran an ad that said "Women will withhold sex unless you vote for Harris."
Obama polled well among young men because he engaged with them in their spaces. At the time, Facebook and Twitter were where the young people hung out, and he showed up there to talk to us, which was a welcome change from George W. "An internet" Bush. Obama campaigned on messages of hope and progress. I don't recall Kamala herself really doing much actual reach-out, and her campaign messaging was either lazy attempts at pandering or naked feminist grievance airing. "We need you to show up and vote for us for the second decade in a row even though we've done nothing at all to measurably improve your lives in that time, when we had the power to do so we pissed it down your leg, and we're okay saying out loud that we thoroughly hate you" has proven to be a losing campaign message.
Turns out there are more straight white men than feminists and queers in the United States voter pool. Hilary proved it and Kamala proved it, pandering exclusively to the former while demanding the support of the former will lose an election to worn out diaper hitler.
Whether it's 48 or 52 % is an immaterial difference. Every other American who voted, voted for Trump. The rest don't seem to care either way. He has very broad popular assent and is as popular as Harris give or take a margin of error.
Everyone is lasered-focused on the EC because it makes all the difference for the practicalities, but if one is to make a broad judgement of whether Trump won fair and square the answer is "yeah, mostly". Further proof is the fact that the House is probably going to be his as well.
Americans now bear the collective responsibility for the horrors of the next 4(+?) years. Do not make the mistake of blaming the popular will of outright fascism on institutional failures, because institutions didn't force half of Americans to vote for the fascist, again.
I'll wait 72 hours before settling with it, in case any shenanigans were involved. I expect it's legitimate, but I want that window open if it's needed.
Trump is winning the popular vote by a pretty decent margin. The electoral college isn't the issue here.
They haven't finished counting that's why. Rural areas are faster to count and skew conservative.
A republican hasn't won the popular vote in 20 years. Trump is projected to win but like last time he'll lose the popular vote and win by virtue of the electoral college.
All the projections I'm seeing him show him almost certainly winning the popular vote. There's a gap of 6 million votes and almost every state is over 90% reported in. That gap is going to likely shrink a bit, but unfortunately it almost certainly won't be enough for him to even lose the popular vote.
Lets face it, we're (assuming you're american) apparently just a country of facists. It looks like GOP is going to have majority in both houses too so here comes project 2025 I guess.
Sorry bud, not a yank. You have my sympathies though.
If it turns out that he does indeed win the popular vote then yeah I'm sorry for your loss. A nest of at least 50% fascists or fascist enablers.
Heart aches for those that did their civic duty and yet have to suffer the repercussions :(
It looks like turnout is way down compared to last election. Trump is pulling about the same amount he did last time ( maybe a few million down, but there are still results to get). Harris is currently down 15M from where Biden was.
Trump's support is no larger than it was last time. Harris' supporters just didn't show up
Anyone who didn't show up is not a Harris supporter.
But Trump won the popular vote this time
No, there is a concerted effort by conservatives to use voter suppression to subvert the will of the majority in the US.
conservatives are clawing back the country right now by hook and by crook.
can't go on forever, but I don't know which is going to last longer: the country or the aging frightened conservatives willing to subvert democracy to hang on to control.
Maybe, but none of the facts directly support this.
There have been large campaigns to disenfranchise several types of voters for decades in the country. The Electoral College was designed to be unfair to appease Slave states. Voter turnout is abysmal, only about 35% of eligible citizens vote. Out of those turnout is usually around the same percentage. The highest turnout recently was 2020 only because mail in voting was expanded so dramatically, and even then it was only 67% of registered voters, so it was still only 67% of that original 37% of eligible voters. So with the highest recent turnout, we're looking at about 25% of eligible citizens actually voting.
I believe that the 67% number for the 2020 election is of eligible voters and not registered voters. While turnout is low, it's not 25% low.
It was ~67% of eligible voters that were registered to vote. Over 94% of registered voters actually voted.
That's what the Germans thought in 1933
Democracy really is the worst form of government, just not as bad as all the others...
Unfortunately in such polarized times like now, even though majority wants this, the ammount of people for which this is unacceptable is only slightly less than "the majority". And besides, I believe a big part of "the majority" is just gullible enough to be persuaded they want this while it actually goes against their interests
Something can not be the worst and just not as bad as the others.
It's a famous quote. The contradiction is intentional. It means democracy has a lot of problems and often looks terrible. However when you step back and consider the alternatives they are worse.
Take it up with Winston Churchil - I was just paraphrasing his quote.
The point is democracy is terrible, but we don't have anything better.
America needs to focus on decentralizing power. That way, when the other side wins, they can't do much damage. Biggest problem America faces is too much centralized control.
As an American, I expected most Americans to be at least semi-rational and to recognize what a threat to democracy and our way of life that Trump is. I expected most Republicans to just vote for him out of reflex, but otherwise the rest of America would rise up in our hour of need to vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.
Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. Iād say Iām sorry, but I donāt think thatāll help. This is America.
Agree, and sadly he won the popular vote too (so far). Itās really bleak how many people donāt vote at all.
They all voted with their wallets. It's really simple. That's how these people are able to come into power.
Except Trump isn't here to help their wallets.
If they could read they would be very upset you said that
The frustrating thing is that Trump didn't even get more votes this election than he did last election. There wasn't a bunch of new Trump voters that came out of the woodwork and turned the tide. He was absolutely beatable. He only won because 15 million of the people who voted for Biden last election just didn't bother this time.
Democratic voters just arenāt dependable, or the causes that Democrats tend to champion donāt provide them any benefits. Yes, itās often the right thing to do to champion their rights or causes, but when the time comes and their help is needed, theyāre seemingly nowhere to be found because things apparently werenāt interesting enough.
A lot of progressive people also moved out of red states after all of the different nonsense happening in them. We won't know until the 2030 census if they actually do that accurately unlike the 2020 census.
It is too late for a while now. Try to be safe, even if that means moving.
And move where?!
Pretty dystopic that you post this quote, because it is doctored to include catholics. Niemƶller's wife explicitly stated that he never included them in his poem. Source: https://martin-niemoeller-stiftung.de/martin-niemoeller/was-sagte-niemoeller-wirklich
Just be grateful if you're not in one of the first groups. I spoke up as loudly as I could.
If I had that answer I would be happy to share.
The problem is that nowhere is safe now. I'm Canadian, and I wish I had somewhere to go. And just imagine how the poor sods in Palestine, Ukraine, and so many other suffering countries, are feeling right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vladimir Putin's armies weren't occupying large swaths of Eastern Europe by the end of this term.
And Russia will use, what? Tanks from the Cold War?! There have been many reports from professional defense intel groups and countries that report that Russia has been struggling to keep fighting the invasion of Ukraine. They've had to resort to asking North Korea to send thousands of troops to fight in Ukraine. With the weapons that the EU, Australia, Britain, and the US have been sending them, Russia is going to have a tremendously difficult time fighting back. Let alone, invading another country.
There's a theory going around that China might take action and 'take back' what they claim to have been their territory from the early 1800s. Either they capture Serbia as a whole, southern Serbia, or a large portion of Eastern Russia. Which might look like the northern point of Lake Baikal to Uda Gulf or the push further and take Taul Bay. The southern part of the Kamchatka peninsula would be advantageous to them. The US and others would have a harder time "controlling" China's fleet of ships if they had ports and bases up there as well.
I can only hold onto fool's faith for so long, that the world doesn't experience another major war.
I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.
The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn't occur in a vacuum.
Though this isn't about conservatism, is it? Trump doesn't like democracy and half of the things that shaped the USA. I mean there is some overlap but he should be opposed by any sane conservative. I think it's more a dip towards fascism or something else.
Can be a bit of both. Everything is prompted by a desire to return to the "before" times. For Trump's supporters, that is a hypothetical, undefined time when America was "great". For the Brexiters in the UK, that was the pre-EU period when Britain was a global empire. For the conservatives in Russia, it is the yearning for the USSR days.
Fair enough. I always hope we'll move towards a better future... And not backwards. But you're right. You pick some random time in history and then make up some policies that supposedly get you back to that place. And an additional psychological factor is, most of us had our best time when we were young, life was easier, less work and less consequence. So we might want that back instead of our current, more complex life.
By finally doing what it clearly needs to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.
It's funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.
In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.
Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.
If Trump truly does win, Republicans won't split the country. They'll make it even more impossible to leave.
I mean, no matter who gets kicked out by who, there would be at least two federal governments... I think most people don't realize that when a country splits, the (at least two) new entities both become independent countries with their own government...
So where do you think the lines would get drawn? West Coast and New England + New York are the obvious ones to do their own thing. Pennsylvania cuts off the DMV area from New York/New England, unless we go on a county level and excise just the area around Philly to keep the whole northeast Atlantic together.
Is Chicago just left as an island in the Midwest? The red staters certainly won't want it, and without it Illinois basically is a red state. RIP to the other midwest and southern cities too.
Colorado and New Mexico together would be quite fucked being landlocked in a sea of red otherwise.
Congratulations to Hawaii on its regained independence I guess. Alaska would probably be offered up to Putin as a thank you gift from Trump.
Do you think all the red states stay together as a single entity? Texas is an obvious candidate to decide to fuck off on its own, possibly Florida as well. But would South Carolina really care all that much to stay tied to Montana, for example, or vice versa?
America has past the point of no return on education. Anti-intellectualism is the status quo now. It's only gonna get worse now.
They won't need it.. they got people to think what it's best for them, what books are good or bad, what values you should have, how you should live. And then they will also have chatgpt and AI that will answer their doubts and even do their work cause they won't be capable of doing it. I wonder if the AI will get "less smart" because of their clients needs being more basic. We'll see
Fisher price ai
Waves Bible they've never read
What do you mean? Trump won decisively. Electoral, popular, in the senate, etc...
You're really asking, "how does a minority continue to exist in the face of a fascist majority?"
The answer is, generally, they don't.
I think that is an oversimplification. He won the popular vote, but that's the majority of voters, not the majority of people, right? So we cannot accurately say that the majority is fascist. We can only say that the voting majority is fascist.
And then we need to look at who was conned, and how. Of course people who got conned need to work harder to avoid that in the future. We all agree on that. At the same time, the con artists and the people who enable the con, we also need to identify them and figure out what's making them successful. If we talk about major newspapers and TV networks failing to cover how bad Trump actually was, or putting Harris on unrealistic pedestal, newspaper owners refusing to allow newspaper editors to endorse a candidate, the way Fox News preys on people who grew up trusting TV news and now have only watched Fox for the last two decades, open lies about who's eating cats and dogs, a DNC that pushes centrist candidates even after 2016 when the weakness was exposed, and it's clear that many left-wing voters are wildly unhappy, those are all things that smaller groups have done to help create the situation that we saw yesterday. And that's just a short list.
So what I hope we can do, is I hope we can avoid saying something trite like, this is what the American people wanted, full stop. If you want to make that a conversation starter, go for it. But it shouldn't be a dismissive conversation ender, because it ignores what actually happened and What will continue to happen in the future.
Right, the rest are just so lazy and consumed by apathy that they could not be bothered to vote when THESE were the stakes. I think we can confidently rule them out for any advocacy for our freedom.
But statistically, those who didn't vote likely have a similar ideology distribution.
You forget that he won decisively... with less votes than he got last time
Honestly at this point y'all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You'll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.
Russia's been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don't see why Americans should do any different.
FWIW a candidate the left could vote for instead of someone to vote against would help.
It would.
But I think that ship has sailed.
And honestly it might be the third-worlder-accustomed-to-things-being-uttter-bullshit in me. But I think "Winning back the country" is an unrealistic and foolhardy goal. Everyone who is on the radar for being harmed by Trump should look out for themselves and their own. Which includes "getting the fuck out of the country" if that is what it takes.
Additionally: A significant portion of the country won today. They got exactly what they wanted. And pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one's own ears.
I'd recommend assassination, in Minecraft. If you're leaving the server and everything is fucked then do one for the team and cause some heads to roll, in Minecraft. The right used violence and it led to the presidency. A coup was rewarded. Let's take some notes.
I am going to commit several violent acts (in Stellaris)
See, I think it's mixed. You're absolutely right that people voted for this. At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point. Authoritarianism has been low-key popular at least since the 90s (maybe earlier, but the 90s was when I started school, and learned by experience that fascism is how the school system operates.) People are scared to rock the boat against their "leaders," and given enough time, this is the result.
I wish I had time right now to write more about this, because there is some deep psychological manipulation that's embedded in the fabric of this country. It doesn't excuse people's behaviors, but knowing how and why they operate is crucial to understanding the big picture.
See you're right but --
-- Those monied interests are also coming from within. The wealthy and powerful from America who see this as a way to consolidate and protect their own wealth and power.
Silicon Valley wanted Neofascism. Wall Street wanted Neofascism. Fracking Barons like the Koch Brother(s) wanted Neofascism. Some out in the open, like the afore-mentioned Koch(s) and Elon Musk, but make no mistake, every billionaire who "shuts up about politics" is most likely a Neofascist in private, because this benefits them.
The people in America are heavily propagandised, but that propaganda is funded and developed by and for the benefit of the wealthy within America itself.
Some people lean really hard into the whole "russian influence" thing because it is comforting. And it is entirely possible that there ARE Russian fingers in this pie -- Russia does benefit from a weakened America, in any way they CAN weaken it. Heck, China and the Middle Eastern powers do too, so maybe they have fingers in that pie too.
But never forget that it started with wealthy Americans, and not some foreign agent. And if every foreign influence walked away, it would continue without them.
Theoretically, The Revolutionā¢ that lefties like me talk about could change things. Just like theoretically, a peaceful political reform could change things. Theoretically.
But I'm from the third world. Hopelessness is my
bread and butterrice and beans. So I'm entirely accustomed to daydreaming of one day things changing, while expecting elections to change nothing, and knowing for a fact that any attempt at armed fighting would most likely end in a victory for the bad guys (they have the bigger guns).The idea of "things are already fucked, have been since before you were born, if you want to make a difference, look out for yourself and those you CAN help, make a difference in the micro, because The System as a macro thing is outside your reach entirely" is in fact how most people have dealt with things since forever, and we survive.
It sounds like weāre on the same page. I didnāt mention foreign influence, only monied influence, which is the same thing youāre saying.
My point was that these influences previously existed in the U.S. long before now. They didnāt materialize out of the blue. Anyone whoās been explicitly anti-fascist prior to the past decade knows that there was already an undercurrent pulling people in that direction.
I appreciate hearing your perspective, and youāre absolutely on point. One thing I know for sure is that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Pretty sure Trump said we wouldn't have to worry about voting anymore. It would all be taken care of.
Damn, and europe already has a lot of refugees to deal with :p
This has actually all been a very elaborate "come to Brazil" meme on my part.Jokes aside, given how a lot of our people tend to worship the floor 'Murica walks on, if a bunch of refugees from the US came over, they'd probably be welcomed with open arms. :PCome on up to Canada. We've been suffering brain drain for ages, and could sure use some scientists and doctors!
PP coming in next year to do the same here though...
Too true. :(
And the same morons will vote for PP here. Np brains, just slogans and anger.
We will take you in NZ.
No you won't, NZ is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to.
I hear Japan is practically giving houses away...
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I'd like to learn more about
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
Is that just a think people say or are there studies or books about this?
This isn't sides anymore.
Until America wants to be tolerant of more than intolerance, it seems it will vote with its penises, wallets, and weapons.
Edit: unnecessary apostrophe
No, no, it's fine. Americans don't know how to use apostrophes properly.
The average death age of any empire is 250 years.
Tick tock America. You're proving that figure to be correct.
*proved
Hope there will be a legitimate election in 2028, and show up to the fucking primary before it and in 2026.
I think Trump won because of the economy. Yes, he has a rabid base that really does want his fascism, but the voters who pushed him over the edge are ones suffering because inflation and the wealth gap that has just been allowed to increase unimpeded. Those voters donāt want fascism - theyāre just dumb AF and donāt pay attention. They just voted for āchange.ā
These problems will only increase over the next 4 years, so there will be another opportunity defy the status quo in 2028. We had a chance and failed to do in 2016. We came closer in 2020. We didnāt have a real primary in 2024. When we get to 2028, itās time to fucking do it.
Ah yes, because nothing says "change" like "unchecked conservatism"
Well I did say they are dumb AF.
Here's the thing... He said he would bring change. Biden, and Harris after, both said that things would basically stay the same. For a lot of people, that's an active issue they're dealing with everyday.
The politicians just don't understand because they haven't lived like normal people for decades, if ever given the history and family of many of them.
I'm not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we'd have a chance. There's nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There's nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We're about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We're about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn't actually believe that they're just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We're better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren't going away.
Even this election wasn't right versus left it's right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they're just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
Given that the Democrats have known the districts have been gerrymandered to hell and back for decades now, why haven't they spent any time at all doing their own redistricting, rather than strongly pushing agendas that affect 0.5% of the country?
Oh dems have. But you have to have control of the state to do that. Hogan (R governor) tried his damnest to unwrap central Maryland from Western Maryland.
The first bill filed in the House of Representatives and Senate after the 2020 election which resulted in the Democratic Party gaining nominal control of Congress and the White House was a bill to ban partisan gerrymandering, require independent redistricting committees, forbid states from imposing onerous voter registration or identification regulations, limit the influence of rich donors and wealthy PACs in federal elections, and generally just make the process of voting better for Americans.
This bill was called the Freedom to Vote Bill and was numbered H.R. 1 and S. 1 for the House and Senate versions, respectively. It passed the House of Representatives in 3 March 2021 and received unanimous support among the 50 Democratic senators when the Senate held its vote on 22 June 2021. The bill was blocked from advancing due to a Republican filibuster.
On 3 January 2022, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced plans to abolish the filibuster for legislation in order to allow this bill to advance. President Joe Biden had previously indicated he would sign the bill. Schumer made his move on 19 January 2022, moving to change the filibuster rule to require continuous talking, i.e. in order to filibuster a bill, someone must make a speech and keep talking for the duration of the filibuster, with the filibuster ending when they finish talking. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, members of the Democratic Party representing Arizona and West Virginia, respectively, got squeamish and voted against the change. All Republican senators voted against the change. This doomed the bill's passage through Congress as the filibuster could be maintained indefinitely by the Republicans.
The bill died when Congress was dissolved pending the November 2022 general election, in which Republicans won a narrow majority in the House of Representatives.
Manchin and Sinema's terms with both expire when the new Congress is convened on 3 January 2025 following the November 2024 general election. Manchin did not seek re-election in yesterday's election and will retire at the expiration of his term. Sinema was forced out of the Democratic Party and originally planned to stand as an independent before deciding against it. She will retire at the end of her term.
Due to the innate malapportionment of the Senate, it is exceedingly unlikely that the Democratic Party will ever regain majority control of the Senate.
So I point my finger at these two idiots for sinking American democracy as we know it.
Even that doesn't address the mess that exists today. It's a great example of why they keep losing. They're going to make it impossible to gerrymander after the lines have already been redrawn to benefit the Republicans? Why? Why would they do that? They're essentially committing to always fighting an uphill battle for the rest of their days. I respect the principle, but not the approach. You cant lock a scale while it's broken and then expect it to measure correctly. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and start playing to win. To start recognizing the strategies which continually defeat them, and start countering with some equally aggressive strategies of their own, or their time is done.
I think I phrased my comment wrong on this. It doesn't ban the act of gerrymandering, it bans the results of gerrymandering. Gerrymandered maps would need to be redrawn had the bill been enacted.
This bill was no slouch. It directly abridged several states' voter suppression laws. Had the bill passed, the next phase would have been people being able to use the federal courts to strike back against these incompatible laws.
That being said, if you were the leader of the Democratic Party, what would you have done? Not intended as rhetorical snark, I'm just curious as to what other ideas there are.
Okay, then that sounds reasonable. Regarding your question, I suppose I would have held a primary and put someone on the final ballot who the people voted for. That would have required acknowledging before the primaries that Biden wasn't fit to continue, which from what I've read, they did have full knowledge of, but refused to act upon.
That's easier said than done though. Right? Like I'm not directly exposed to the corruption inherent in the system and the demands placed upon them in order to secure enough campaign funds to have a chance at all. Although I don't think sticking to the actual system as it was designed would cause the loss of donors.
Oh, and I'd get rid of the super delegates. In short, I'd stop trying to control who gets on the final ballot to push my party agenda, and instead let the people actually elect the leader they want. Again though, that's probably a lot easier said than done, and I'm an outsider not privy to the dealings that take place behind closed doors.
I have to agree with you there. I think the Democratic Party was scared of inviting infighting with a primary contest which Harris would probably win anyway, but you're rightāHarris had no mandate from the party membership and even a lightning-round primary conducted online would have been better.
I don't understand this sentiment as I'm hearing it a lot.
We've elected a fascist into the highest office. We're cooked. There's a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I'm not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.
Organizing? Resistance? Armed? That's honestly insane.
You're going to organize against half the US? Gonna start a civil war with every last (fully armed) enemy in your own backyard?
They could blockade cities from food and shut down any movement in 3 days.
The Civil War worked efficiently because there was a battlefront. This is more of a Republican Soup.
Good luck with your local police. They'll get a federal warrant and gleefully raid your home at 3 am.
See, there's the horrifying possibility that they just did and this is what Americans are.
Eh, forget it. they probably need a minute before reckoning with that one.
That's the thing .. looks like he'll win the populist vote.. You're not "taking your country back" this is your country...
Not being American, I will need some convincing about why the US doesn't belong in the same bucket as, say, Hungary or Turkey. If you keep self inflicting the rule of strongmen and their oligarch cronies at some point that's a core feature.
Sadly, for the next four years, we belong in that bucket.
Wait 2 years, and hopefully put people who will mitigate the damage into the positions listed on your ballot. All you can do now as a law abiding citizen is wait.
I fear that the next election will be more ceremony than democracy once they have finished rigging it. At this point, I expect a third term for Trump - if he lives that long.
He won't. The goal was to get Vance in all along. He's a docile pet for Thiel and co to implement their fascist agenda.
Your fear of a 3rd term makes it all the more important to vote in your future elections. As the two term limit is imposed through a constitutional amendment, they'd need to create another constitutional amendment to reverse it. They need 2/3rds of both the house and the senate to agree to even get the ball rolling, as such, it is vital that you do what you can to prevent them from acquiring those numbers to avoid that situation.
If it did happen, I wonder if the democrats would run Obama again.
I don't think they need a constitutional amendment, just Scotus ruling that it only applies to consecutive terms, for example.
And then 8 years of the President and VP switching places.
It worked for his pal, Putin...
I know the supreme Court is heavily biased at the moment, but what possible logic could they use to get out of the 22nd amendment saying "no person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice"? They can't just add words there, and it isn't ambiguous at all
I think you underestimate them. And if they do, who will you complain to anyway?
If they attempt to abolish term limits I think we're actually going to see a civil war.
I would hope so, but americans have proven time and time again that they are spineless.
That's the plot of the Civil War movie from this year. Nick Offerman and his nameless party started a 3rd presidential term.
If Republicans remove term limits, it would be amazing to see Obama instantly get reelected for a third term in 2028.
That being said, the USA may not get another legitimate election (help us).
Fat fuck will die inside of 4 years. So, itāll get worse.
I admire your positivity
THIS is the moment where everyone should be creating 3rd party candidates and going to the streets to spread awareness for the next election.
Not 6 months before the election with trump as a possibility. Get out there and promote 3rd party now, when people are pissed at Democrats for throwing it all away for Israel and people are pissed the trump won.
IMO third party is not viable unless we change our voting system, but people keep voting out the progressive reform party so fat chance.
EDIT: 100% for independents in Congress tho, as long as it doesnt split the vote for progressives.
Do you really think they lost over their stance on Israel/Palestina? Not saying it doesn't matter. But I feel if you see how many votes republicans got, that a lot of (perceived) domestic issues played a very big role.
20 million people did not stay home over Palestine. People aware of that issue are also acutely aware of the fact Trump would be worse.
Apparently a lot of apathy among dem voters, or they also think a strongman for a while would be OK.
"Next election" is the issue here.
Those playbooks are for democracy. This is different territory now.
The polls say the economy was the reason, not foreign policy.
Ruling parties are being flipped all over the world because inflation has been bad since Covid. It's a pity your only other option was Trump.
Yep. Rough economic times seem to cause the incumbent pres to lose. People seem to think the president controls the economy.
It can get worse!
No, 3rd party will always be spoiler at best with the election system we have... Now is the time to figure out who runs the local Dems in your state/county/city/town and take them over... We need to take over the Dems and transition them to the party of the future
They just did. They'll happily lie in the bed they shat in at first. By the time they realize their mistake, it will be too late.
A cancer metastasizing is the opposite of Americans winning their country back.
They were referring to what the slack jawed morons who voted for trump think
It'll be when a dem takes control and they'll blame the fallout on that person. Same as usual.
Go to your Democratic party and demand change.
Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.
Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.
Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.
I like the sentiment, but that is predicated on there being another election under the same rule set which would allow either party to win. If things come to pass with the unitary executive theory outlined in Project 2025 and the dictatorship desires that have already been declared, makes it unlikely votes will work to change political parties going forward...
And the "deep state", meaning actual subject matter experts doing their jobs throughout government for years, regardless of current administration, are all going to be replaced by kid rock and vaping young republicans fresh from dropping out of their second semester in at The University of Southern Alabama State.
That's who's going to be the dude inspecting your meat for e.coli and signing off on the clinical trials for you've perception meds - Gunner, Hunter and Ryder.
Really don't think anyone is considering the reality of how deeply fucked we're going to be looking at the front door for obvious signs of trouble, while they leaf the crawlspace with fertilizer and gasoline and kick in the backdoor with flamethrowers in hand.
Some of this outcome will depend on how effectively they execute. But let's say they do. Then. in the paraphrased words of JFK:
"He who makes reform impossible. makes revolution inevitable."
Now that isn't a pretty future, or a nice future. But that's what happens when a people resigns itself to performing democracy instead of protecting it.
You get it
I'll also add that you need to primary basically anyone that has been in politics for more than 15 years. There is just too much, "common sense," in this party that is just wrong. In 2016, it was smart to run a centrist campaign that tried to move moderates away from Trump, and it failed. In 2024, they ran the same fucking campaign, and it failed.
There are well intentioned people that somehow still think that the 1992, third-way strategy will deliver gains through incrementalism, and it's just not going to happen. Primary them, so that they at least have to contend with the new political realities. Trump picked up working class voters across across all demographics, not just the white working class. Everyone wants change; offer real change.
Biden could do some official acts. But he won't.
Should be the DNC motto.
Gallows humor is all we've got left
He should at least transfer a shitton of military gear to Ukraine in the coming days. Not little stuff either.
Top-tier tanks, jets, warships, and more. Enough to absolutely crush the Russian war machine. Basically everything shy of nukes and loads of it.
It's been "too late" for 'mericans to "win back the country" for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it's very non-democratic.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I'd say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
Quite the change from 2016, when he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million. Congrats, 'murica.
Yeah we are not trending in the right direction here.
People don't vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn't a great standard to go by either, it's a product of the system as well
If you had 100% turnout the popular vote would be very different.
My area is such a strong republican district that my vote is functionally irrelevant aside from the president. Hell, they didn't even bother with democrat candidates on a local level.
If that were me I would run as an independent, people love that on a local level. "I'm putting town/county first!" And say I'm going to fix the roads people LOVE talking about how bad the roads are when it comes to local politics.
There's a lot of fuckery that happened since before and after the election. They fucked with the census to give red states more ec votes. They changed voting rules and redistricted in many states. They got ballots thrown out in certain areas. Yesterday the voting computer system in my (blue) county didn't work for the first two hours fortunately I voted early. There's also a lot more nuanced targeted misinformation out there now. People have these ideas in their heads and I have no clue where they came from. I block ads all the time but I imagine places like TikTok can easily manipulate people without anybody around them knowing about it.
They're the political opposition now. They should do what good opposition work includes. Hold the government accountable, force them to deliver results. Make the people pay attention and realize if their bills become less or more expensive. And I'd say re-consider life-choices. And make some fundamental changes. Maybe start a new political party if the Democrats are beyond hope.
Americans have lost. Bestyou can do is try to save NATO.
Realistically? It's too late.
We now have an ultra-conservative SC for the rest of our lives. The Republican party openly stated and ran on making fundamental changes to our government if they won the House/Senate/Presidency and to "defeat the enemy within".
It doesn't even really matter if the suffering that is coming shocks our society into rebounding in 4 years. The locked in SC and fundamental changes to our government will have already been set in place. Government departments will be run by appointees with absolutely no experience. Entire departments could be re-staffed with partisan political appointees if we are to believe the words of some of the people Trump promised to appoint. We have been placed squarely on the path to decline. That decline won't happen overnight, but in our lifetimes it will become undeniable. We will probably barely recognize this country by the end of our lives.
This election determined the political order we will live under for the rest of our lives.
Buy a gun. Try to find happiness within your immediate sphere. And stay safe, if you can. Very, very few people will come out on top in the scenario we now find ourselves in. Give it a few years and you'll see. They have total control now, so there's no one else to blame for the decline that's essentially guaranteed to become apparent in the near future. But I'm sure if they do fail, immigrants will be at the top of the blame list.
It was a worthy experiment while it lasted.
There's nothing to win back, this is America, always has been.
You let it burn.
Yup, progressive politics in the US has been an exception not the rule. After about ~30 years we are just going back to business as usual. People forget segregation and women not being able to have their own bank accounts and abortion being illegal (the first time), is not something from ancient history. And before that the country literally went to war over itself over the idea that they should be able to own other huma s as property
These things are all true. But the history tended to go the progress direction. Slavery was abolished, so was segregation, women got more and more of their rights. Things were gradually and often painfully getting better. Now it regresses.
It's going to take us at least a couple decades to get back on track. At that point I'll be near retirement age. Yeah history progresses, but for me personally it's over.
So the way it looks now, Trump has won the presidency, and his allies will have the senate and house of representatives, and they already had the supreme court. The three branches of government will not be working as checks on each other's power, unless we get very lucky and the various factions that make up the GOP split. This is obviously very, very bad, but there are still some checks on presidential power.
Trump's last term was a clusterfuck. Things may just be so disorganized that he struggles to actually get what he wants done.
The states have limited power to defy the feds. While case law does state that federal law supercedes state law, that doesn't mean all States will immediately cooperate wholeheartedly. Obviously a court battle will eventually get to the supreme court, but that takes time and requires a single panel of judges to beat multiple states into line on each new policy.
Governments do have a small amount of caution when it comes to their people. One thing the crazy conservatives had right this whole time was that fundamentally, nobody was ever going to come for their guns because nobody wants to force a confrontation with a bunch of armed lunatics. In the same way, they'll probably try to avoid massive riots and general strikes simply because it isn't worth the fight to whoever is responsible.
Citizens can resist. Go to protests, donate to political advocacy organizations (the ACLU will have its work cut out for it), and for Christ's sake, go vote! Show up every year, just not every 4 years. Without the cooperation of congress, his power would be significantly curtailed.
If nothing else, terms are limited. In 2 years we can swing congress. He isn't going to be able to pass a constitutional amendment to do what he likes before that. If we swing congress in two years, it will slow him down significantly, and then we can replace him in 2028. Hopefully people will actually keep showing up long enough after that to reverse all the damage he's likely to do in the next 4 years.
Case in point: legalized marijuana. That said, my fear in regards to states defying laws is:
The former is particularly concerning as police and the national guard are predominately right-wing. My state passed the SAFE-T Act to address abuses in the police/justice system. Naturally, various police departments weren't happy about this, and through obtuse interpretation of the act they'll claim they can't legally do vital parts of their job -- something I've seen multiple times first hand. Refusing to do their job competently in response to MAGA terrorism isn't hard to imagine.
The later gets tricky. Most of the states that would push back against unjust federal laws are also states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive in aid. The "obvious" solution withhold tax dollars going to the fed to make up the difference ... which would be next to impossible in practice. Even if states mange to do it they'd be playing into Republican hands by defunding essential federal services.
you organize to pressure the burgeoise, as always, because they are the ones funding every winning political candidate.
except for americans fascism seem to be tolerable but god forbid you learn from marxism and socialism.
"Americans" did win their country back. We aren't welcome in it anymore.
Maybe Biden could pack the Supreme Court before leaving office.
It wouldn't be a great idea in the long run, but it'd potentially stop the entire system from functioning right now.
He should have expanded it as soon as he was elected.
My only real conclusion is that they're all in on it.
Biden had four years and still has a few months for sweeping executive orders. If he doesn't at least try, he's a fucking coward or on the payroll.
He would have had to get that past the Senate, which he never really had.
Packing the court requires legislation, in which he needs Congress to send him a bill, and between the Republican House and the Filibuster in the Senate that was never happening.
What do you mean by "win back"?
They're trying to get liberals banned by coaxing out suggestions of terrorism
Americans HAVE their country, this is what they want, this is what they voted for. Stop treating Americans as if this is something pressed upon them. They chose this. Now they will live with the consequences.
a third of us chose this, while half of us couldn't be bothered to give a shit.
sanity is an oppressed minority in the us, and it's worse than I ever could have thought.
Which means they chose this too. The only people without any culpability are the ones who voted for Harris or who for many reasons were not able to vote.
Doesn't mean that the people who did not vote are as much at fault as the ones voting for Trump, but they share part of the blame.
Yep Imma stand back and watch it all go to absolute hell and I'll be pleased knowing they brought it on themselves.
Same. America, I loved you, but it's not me, it's you.
Education, unfortunately those in the most need of it are out of an educational institution so they will only be fed on a diet of commercialism and disinformation.
Some children really did get left behind
Let the loud mouthed Marxists finally carry out the revolution they've been babbling about for the past 10 years. Oh wait...
Who knows. Apparently half my country is full of legitimately hateful people who just want to watch the people they don't like suffer.
How the fuck do we come back from that? Honestly, are we even worth redeeming?
For me, this is it. This is when America died. If you're still "proud" to be an American after this, you're brain-damaged.
Even if it was to get uncivil, the side with guns in now in charge
We have guns on the left, too. We just aren't as masturbatory about them.
Hell of an uphill battle against MQ-9s, hellfire, and LRAS.
Too many people stayed home when they should have voted. It was their civic duty and moral goddamn obligation to the rest of the world. Fuck....
They're notoriously easy to get.
Not when the past 50 years have been so it's harder and harder for the people the current rulers don't like don't get guns
Literally the prison system was made so those who object now legally can't buy guns
Nah, prison system was made to keep slavery legal, disenfranchisement is just a bonus.
They don't. It was never their country to begin with, clearly.
The majority of the U.S. has been racist, bigoted, misogynists from the beginning. Hell, the entire electoral college system that just fucked everyone over is a compromise that was put into place because a bunch of rich white landowners in the Antebellum south couldn't stand the idea of freed black men's votes having as much power as theirs. So they immediately rigged the system to keep them in control of who gets power because you better believe no black man was ever going to be an elector.
That is who your country is. There was a brief period from the 60s to the 80s where it became declasse to be an asshole, and so they mostly shut up during that time when they were in public, and then went home and took out their frustration by beating their wives and kids.
Then along came the modern republican party, who began to tear down that cloak of respectability, and it emboldened all of those wife beating shit-heads to say "Hey...we can be assholes again...go us."
This is your America. It always has been. I'm sorry if that hurts. I really am. But right now I'm also goddamned angry at your country on behalf of my country and all the others that have to be caught in the blast.
That's how I see it and I'm sure many like me (not us citizens) will start to see it. People aren't being fooled, they like what they see in it when they voted. At least half Americans do
By watering the tree of liberty?
With urine?
No, blood from fascists
I think that first you have to start by admitting two things:
After that, you can look at why the Democratic parties fail to appeal to Americans, and try to reform them.
If you go outside of democracy to gain democracy, then you probably lose what's left of your democracy.
We engage in democracy.
Harris was a terrible candidate who was forced into the race. I was hoping she could pull it off but it's pretty clear that what we needed was for Biden to step down before the primary so that we could have a real election.
Trump by all metrics is a much much worse candidate. The democrats should have been able to run a literal turd and still win. It's not about the policies, Trump ran a cult and it worked. Its absolutely mental.
I majority of Americans think thats what theyve just done.
A majority of the voters. 72{ish. We're still counting)mil is not the majority.
As someone from a country with mandatory voting i will not take a single second of any shit argument that hinges itself on people too lazy or stupid to excise their right to have a say in their own future. If u didnt vote then ur opinion and value for the purposes of political disscussion are 0.
Most Americans like and support Trump. That IS America.
Now that is something to think about.. sad really
Yeah. Most people are probably experiencing the shock of what they thought the American people were vs what they are. It's hard to understand and accept.
As foreigners, our views are heavily affected by things like Hollywood, celebrity and visibility to the "best of America". But the bulk of America is not that, at all. So the veneer is torn away and it's jarring to most people.
The only positive I see in all this is that we get to watch the US get what they voted for. Pain can be a teacher, but I doubt they can learn from it. Any and all agony from this will just be the other parties fault, always. Too much venom and malice in the politics and too little earnest substance.
Yup, if we learn anything we will definitely have forgotten it in four years.
Yup, it's the election where hate won.
Win it back from who?
Other Americans who made this choice know who Trump is and thats what they want.
The Rich have always owned this country. No one is taking anything from them. Its illegal to try.
Yup. Americans just won their country back, unfortunately.
If Trump actually won, it is too late. Time to make plans to leave if you can, otherwise, prepare for the worst
Got any tips to get started on that? I've got a wife and kids to take with me, so emigration will be complicated.
When will countries start accepting US asylum seekers?
Don't call yourself an asylum seeker. Generally the rest of the world welcomes American immigrants, but we all get a bit antsy when it comes to helping people who actually need help.
If you got skills, pick a country and go to their immigration website. They will happily walk you through the process.
Well, it varies country by country but if you apply as a refugee/asylum seeker that usually includes your family. There may be some other options for becoming a resident, but this varies a lot depending of the country
Come to Australia mate
We will send our rejects to America in exchange
What a tweest!
Apparently, the majority of Americans believe they won back their country yesterday. Looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote. That's where we are.
See, this is why I rent.
As if the majority had a fucking choice.
Yes. It is too late. This was the inevitable outcome. Sooner or later.
Dems here are like UK Labor. They're a right wing party who occasionally cosplays as a left leaning one when they need to. They stand as the bullwark against any form of left wing populism. And they've done their job to the letter.
Our economy is almost entirely debt driven financialization and gambling. There is another subprime mortgage crisis brewing. Exactly the same as the one in '08, except way bigger. And our economy is far more precarious than it was then.
The Democratic Party needs to run a candidate that is elected through a fair primary process. When this happens, dems win.
2008 - Obama was popular and won the primary 2012 - same 2016 - It was deemed Clintonās turn, she was given every advantage, and lost 2020 - Biden won the primary as elected by the people, then won again 2024 - Harris was given the candidacy without having to primary, and lost
It is a simple trend.
Though to be fair, Biden won the (practically uncontested) primaries in 2024 and probably would have gotten his shit stomped in just as hard
I wouldnāt call the 2024 primaries fair. Biden was ordained, like Clinton.
Thereās a reason these predetermined candidates keep losing.
Yeah, I probably should've put won in quotes, but I'd argue there's still a small difference between running as the incumbent and the situation with Clinton. Not that it really fucking matters now.
Biden was losing 2020 by an embarrassing margin until ALL the other candidates except Bernie Sanders dropped out to coalesce behind Biden in SC.
Whatever happened to Liz "et tu, Brute" Warren?
Legally, there are a couple challenges to be made to his eligibility that will likely be brought by some states. The main one that comes to mind is If there is a case for insurrection then the 14th amendment applies.
Another potential is the 25th amendment. This would require J.D. Vance to get half of the cabinet on board to remove Trump from power. I'm wondering if this is something that is already in the works considering J.D. Vance's true feelings for Trump that were revealed in the past. It's probably a long shot, but who knows.
By not being single issue shit heads.
It's over.
We radicalize, organize, pour into our communities, support one another, find people already doing the work and join in, and keep fighting like hell.
The us is ground hog day, they won't win it back instead they will spend two years bickering then two years bad mouthing and it will continue to repeat as they believe they've got 'democracy' you guys don't your being played by the political elites and the capitalist. Also stop throwing liberal around as a broad left notion, liberalism is an insult to any leftist.
If you want change then join a socialist party that is connected to an international. Make moves in unions. Build workers power. Be willing to fight. Educate yourselves so you can educate others. Marxism isn't some silly notion or wond waving. Its a scientific approach to a healthy and just society, Karl Marx watched the birth of global capitalism, predicted its failures: failures we are still seeing today, and sort to tackle the issue with years of research and analysis. What he made is a solid base for us to build on.
Win back? This country was bought and paid for long before any of us were alive. We keep fighting against the oligarhy for liberty and freedom like we've always done.
Regardless of your views on the Orange Grifter / Gift from God (delete as applicable) this question is fundamentally flawed. āHow do we build bridges, find common ground and begin to win over our fellow US citizens who have, in my opinion, made a poor and misinformed political choice that could have terrible consequences for them, our country and the world at large?ā might be a more appropriate opener. I understand youāre upset, scared, desolate etc but your language comes off as belligerent and aggressive. Perhaps soften your tone and be more receptive to othersā concerns. For the record, Iāve got no flies on this turd as Iām not from the US, nor do I live there. Good luck.
The Republicans are running on a platform of attacking the rights of racial minorities, and the right for trans people to exist
And the people who vote for them like the pain they cause or are so checked out they don't know/care
Idk if there is a way to work with people who's political agenda is to kill you
If over half of your active voters want to kill people as part of a national policy then youāre probably fucked beyond repair as a people and a nation. My condolences.
I didn't particularly care for all of Harris's positions and history, but I voted for her. I know many who felt the same. Even considering attacks on ballot drop boxes and such, based on what I've read so far, the majority of voting Americans picked the... Well, the one whom appears to have won.
So, to me, the question is not the one you proposed. The question to me is more along the lines of getting more voters/engagement and the like. To your actual question: they actually got it back and it makes me feel sick and ashamed, but that is the reality as much as I despise it.
Wait till next election. Trump can only run for two terms.
One would hope that is the caseā¦
There will come a time when Trump is not physically able to keep campaigning. You might not be rid of MAGA come that day, but Trump won't last forever.
Putin also was able to only serve for two terms, so he replaced himself with a crony until he could change the law to remove term limits...
Thank god he's old, then, because he's not going to last long enough to be long time dictator. But maybe thats not the point, even if trump is gone, if hardcore republicans dismantle elections to ensure they're perpetually in power, then who the current figurehead is will be the least of our problems
Electoral whiplash is such a waste of time
With the current rules, which he now has 4 years to repeal.
I guess they already did. That's what they wanted and voted for.
"They" being about 37% of voters.
Too late for that.
Firstly, undestanding what left actually is would be a good start. You're not talking about the left. You're talking about liberals. Liberalism isn't left. Liberalism is right-wing, and always have been.
The actual left is very happy to be "uncivil."
Secondly, a good second step would be to finally accept that liberals, and liberalism in general, has never, and will never, oppose fascism.
Those are two very basic things you can do right now.
The left is such a small population in the US, it's irrelevant. If we are to believe Trump's rhetoric, any group that becomes too much of a nuisance will be deemed "the enemy within," and be shot.
And yet this "irrelevant" left managed to beat the far-right off the streets despite the far-right enjoying the support and protection of the police, not to mention luxurious funding. You don't have to believe me, you can hear it from a Neo-Nazi himself.
It's almost like... if you were to stop paying attention to the liberal gaslighting you might realize the answer was right in front of you all this time.
Ok, yes, I support actions like these, and they are good for community defense against small civilian fascist groups. There are not the numbers to counter organizations like FBI, DHS, or national guard though. Things are a bit different when the fascist group you're trying to counter is the federal or state government with the will to kill and immunity from their actions.
Clearly not by voting, you guys sucks at it.
They will over the next 4 years. Elections swing back and forth. Midterms will probably be greatly fir democrats
Yes, with full control over all 3 branches, fanatacist support groups and a stated desire to overthrow the previous norms and standards in order to build permanent total control, I'm sure the midterms and next election will totally take place and absolutely swing back to the Dems.
Fucking hell.
If the Communists are willing to do what they say we need to do. This is a big "if" that I don't see any evidence for.
If you read communist theory you'd understand that revolution isn't easy, it takes multiple factors such as the current state of capitalism, class contusness and the global landscape. Once these things align we will witness the capitalist unable to deliver for the demands of the majority and the mass populous will soon realise how akin to slaves we are at that point the workers will fight back. I'm personally very active in my party building workers power through unions, attending demos and dispensing theory, a few months ago I traveled to Germany for a 5 day conference. It is only through these actions we can see change. It takes 15 present of the population to create real change so while you might feel content sitting around criticing our efforts you could be down here helping your comrades, the international group my party is linked to sent a dozen sp member to chilly to help in revolutionary action so rest assured that we are doing some heavy lifting.
I want to help. Do you have any advice? This has convinced me I have a moral imperative but I don't even know where to start.
Read The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engle's, then State and Revolution by Lenin or even audiobook which are both on YouTube. Its important because they both outline the reasoning and the conviction needed. Then you'll want to find a socialist/communist group that suits you, I'm a marxist, my ideas of socialism diverge with the appearance of Stalin. If your in the united states we have a trotskyist party who I've spoken to personally and theyre a good lot, your best bet would be to visit https://www.socialistworld.net/category/international/ this is the international body I work under and many other countries also work under.
Hope you find a suitable space comrade. Feel free to contact me if you need any further assistance or just to let me know how your getting on.