Windows 12 May Require a Subscription
pcmag.com
[A]n INI configuration file in the Windows Canary channel, discovered by German website Deskmodder, includes references to a "Subscription Edition," "Subscription Type," and a "subscription status."
[A]n INI configuration file in the Windows Canary channel, discovered by German website Deskmodder, includes references to a "Subscription Edition," "Subscription Type," and a "subscription status."
I'm looking forward to the Year of the Linux desktop ™️
Right now, my Windows 10 installation is pretty bloatless and is easily revertable when an update wants to change things. However I'm definitely looking for a more mainstream Linux solution because I know these times won't last.
Check out Endeavor OS. I've been using it for about 3 months now as a full replacement to my old windows 11 set up.. everything I've needed it to do, with the exception of a few games has worked either right out of box or with minor tweaks. The forums are active and the Arch Wiki has answers to nearly every question you may have about the backbone of the OS. System updates are incredibly easy and are done on your schedule, not Microsoft's.
I use EndeavourOS and it's great, but for linux newbies or folks who just want a stable OS as a daily driver i'd recommend some other ones. I used POP_OS before switching to Endeavour and that was a solid one for me
I'll add another option that is great for people trying out Linux for the first time (though it's great for seasoned Linux folks, too): ZorinOS. It's based on Ubuntu LTS, but has a few beginner friendly options and features straight out of the box. Note that there is an optional "pro" version if you like to support development, but it's completely optional.
Here is an interesting link that a user can answer questions to refine Linux distro choices:
https://distrochooser.de/
No experience with Pop, but I've heard good things!
Fedora is my recommendation of choice. The default Fedora + Gnome workflow out of the box is absolutely flawless.
Yeah that's the beauty of it isn't it.. a lot of distros and desktop environments to choose from; there is a flavor for anyone!
For anyone switching from windows I recommend KDE Plasma as it'll feel closest to what you are used to.
I've got a windows 10 PC that I built as a gaming computer like 10 years ago. To be honest it spends a lot of time turned off because Linux has become much better for gaming using Proton.
However sometimes it is really useful to have a windows computer around. Being able to use Visual Studio for C# and C++ projects is particularly good given how much scaffolding their frameworks give you. Still, if I end up having the system being forcibly upgraded or when it leaves LTS it will probably end up being sold for spare parts.
Actually, yeah, that's a cool way to look at this. Imagine everything getting support over night. The only reason I don't use Linux is because a ton of the things I do on a computer require windows.
Cries in having to use office 365
cant use the web version?
Been and gone for me.
it may actually come now if this happens
Remember when Microsoft said that Windows 10 would be the last edition?
In effect, it will be for some people fed up with all this bullshit.
As someone who switched to Linux primarily because of Windows 11's never ending BS (bugs, resource mismanagement, etc) and the inevitably end of Windows 10, I can confirm that Windows 10 will be my last.
I'd say the most extreme bullshit began with Windows 10. At least the threat of "upgrading" to it was the final push to Linux for me.
It was for me. 11 was the reason why I switched to Linux.
They're not wrong. It'll be the last Windows for me.
tbf, it was Jerry Nixon who said that, a developer evangelist for microsoft, not the company itself. the media just ran with it.
Yeah it's crazy how often it gets quoted as fact. I mean, just think about it from a logical standpoint, why would a profit-driven software development company just stop making new versions of one of their main money makers?
Pretty much nobody purchases Windows. Microsoft peobably makes all the money from OEM licenses sold to manufacturers and I don't really think there's that much of an increase in sales once they release a new OS.
You forget enterprise licences. Most medium sized business.
I figured they'd just start calling it "Windows" and continue naming future updates with the date like they do now (ie 22H1, 22H2, 23H1, etc).
It wasn't killing new versions of Windows, it was the decision to move to more of a rolling release model over the historical point releases which we saw as 10's lifespan went on and still see in 11 with their "moments". Specific Windows version was going to become less emphasized in favor of having a larger install base for the Store and whatever MS wants to do to that install base. And the big buyers of Windows were always volume sales too.
And then something changed, whether OEM's complained, someone decided a change was necessary, etc. and boom, 11.
I don't believe for one bit that windows will move to a pure subscription based model. They are greedy, but not stupid.
What's more believable is that the base OS will be the same as usual, but if you want fancy AI assistants in your OS, you must subscribe, with the justification being that MS must pay for the servers running the models you're using.
Yeah this sounds like the most reasonable outcome but companies have been surprising me recently with how dumb they can be.
The difference between greedy and stupid grows smaller every time the shareholders demand a profit. The only proof you need of that is tracking the OS development from win7 to win11.
The logic "We know you guys pay $120 for a license but here's ads on your lockscreen" was called stupid 10 years ago.
Then, "We know you guys pay $120 for a license and deal with forced updates and lockscreen ads, but here's a framework for ads in your file explorer" was called stupid a few years ago.
Now here we are listening to them say, "We know you guys pay for a license and deal with ads all over everything you're doing with mandatory updates and setting reversion when we don't like what you're doing, but we're also gonna charge you $10/month indefinitely" and saying to ourselves that they can't be that stupid.
The reality is that there's no reason to push a new version of windows that doesn't make them more money. This is that.
So I can pay less and have less of their bullshit on my system? Sounds like a great deal
I agree, corpo world is already 100% in subscription mode and consumers buy windows through OEM. If you buy OEM laptop, how would you sell subscription windows with it? I see it as a no go, it would force OEM laptops to be sold with Linux.
If you sell updates through subscription, you would end up in 2000's when malwares infected the whole internet with non-patched windows machines. This hurts your PR so poorly that I don't think they are that stupid.
Of course they are thinking their ass off how they could convert consumers to subscription, but I don't see way to do it.
"SomeShittyAntivirus free for 12 months with purchase of this laptop!"
...which would be valid
It could be for their cloud based OS
Kind of funny to me how the role of operating system has evolved.
We've gone from "low level software to manage memory and hardware" to "bloatware that will let you use our hardware with your hardware"
The idea that windows would require a subscription for an OS pisses me off more than I thought.
Good way for them to guarantee a exodus of people switching their OS.
Kinda like the reddit exodus...
Can anyone confirm that my understanding of the source article is correct?
The "Windows 12 may require a subscription" is coming from the fact that the word "Subscription" exists in a Windows config file somewhere?
That seems like a pretty big leap to me. Not that I don't think it's impossible that Microsoft would do this, but the evidence here seems thin to say the least.
Yep!
Also lemmy is full of open-source Linux nerds who will upvote anything that bashes on Microsoft (oh excuse me Micro$oft for the old heads).
It looks like they will add a subscription edition, doesn't necessarily mean current editions will go away. If they don't offer free upgrade again, for a lot of people they will need to decide to either buy a full license or roll a subscription.
There is not a lot known here tho, will Windows be part of the existing 365 subscription? Will OEMs offer a full license any more? Or will it be a trial before adding a sub or license.
No one knows
Hey, guys. I found the word "subscription" in Steam's terms of use.
I guess sometime soon, GabeN is gonna start charging $5 a month for people to access their gaming libraries.
They already have their staple programs subscription based, why not windows too? People must be paying.
It's more likely to be some sort of license for companies than anything else. I'd be impressed if they actually think the average windows user would pay for it.
I think the most likely outcome is that this is somehow integrating an o365 or m365 style subscription into windows, carving out "pro" features into the subscription. Either power-user features, or org management features like Ad-joining and management. Maybe subscription versions of Windows that only work with m365 managed accounts, and don't actually support local accounts.
It could replace professional edition, maybe it will be an alternative product SKU, but that seems like the most Microsoft thing that those config strings could mean.
Time to contribute heavily to Linux open source and make Linux desktops super useful to everyone.
Yeah, we're already there bud. Come on in, the waters fine
I'll completely jump ship once SolidWorks can run on Linux. Wine is still a little iffy with it.
Maybe this will finally convince the world to move to Linux Mint
You'll be surprised/dismayed how resistant people are to learning something new.
It's extremely obnoxious to suggest that people don't use Linux because they don't want to learn something new. They don't use it because there's absolutely no need for them to do so when Windows is a fantastic OS for their needs
Even when you're a bit more savvy it's easy to configure Windows to your liking without all the bloat and spying
I'm perfectly happy programming a Pi for little projects so I know Linux wouldn't be a problem for me, but I simply have no need for the hassle
Linux users are like militant vegans; they do more to put people off Linux than promote it
Well, then don't. But don't be surprised when things keep getting worse.
The issue has never been whether Windows is a good OS or not. Almost anything you can do with Linux you can also do with Windows[1]. The issue has always been the risk that Microsoft could pull the rug from under your feet and the fact that there's nothing you can do about it as long as you're on their platform. You can see all the bullshit that people have had to deal with in the past 10 years as the result of people being comfortable with taking that risk - shitty upgrades, telemetry, ads, and now this. And nobody even knows what other kinds of bullshit they'll try to pull in the future.
None of this to say that you have to choose one platform or another. Everything is a calculated risk. Use Windows if that's what you want, but by this point, it's clear that you will have to continue with putting up with more and more of this abusive behavior from Microsoft if that's the choice that you're making.
[1]: This is somewhat starting to change though. These days, for a lot of programming- and data science-related tasks, Linux is starting to pull further and further ahead and Windows is becoming more and more unusable.
I'm technical and I still prefer Windows at home. Linux, as great as it can be for development, is not great for everyone. It doesn't "just work." My favourite example of Linux not "just" working is when Linus tried to install Steam on Pop_OS. He accidentally nuked the entire desktop. I could have easily done the same if I wasn't paying careful attention. One should never, ever be able to destroy their OS by installing Steam. That's part of the issue. When things go wrong, all of the instructions which present on Google are people providing terminal commands. Unless one is very comfortable with using the terminal, they're going to be copying and pasting these commands in and hoping for the best. This is what went wrong for Linus. This is far worse than following GUI based troubleshooting techniques which guide the user through defined and safe resolutions.
This over-reliance on the terminal is pervasive, and I find myself having to use it for everything from basic OS configuration to software installation to software configuration to drivers to hardware installation and troubleshooting. Every year I boot up a new flavour just to see if things have improved, and they haven't. Ultimately Linux is built by developers, for developers. That's great, and it does many things really well. I've just come to accept that it doesn't do consumer stuff very well. It lacks the UX polish present in Windows and MacOS, and most consumers like that. It fails especially hard when it comes to gaming. I literally cannot install any of my Fanatec wheel/peddle/shifter peripherals in any distro. Only 18% of games on ProtonDB are Tier 1. Even of those, it doesn't guarantee a trouble-free experience. Half the top streamed Twitch games just don't run on Linux at all, or require absurd workarounds and suffer from terrible performance.
I'll keep using Linux for my home server, but it's along way from replacing my PC or laptop OS.
There was nothing accidental about Linus. He did it on purpose, the system very clearly told him not to.
And Proton works much better than you imply. I don't know about their new "tiered" rating, but 30% games get Platinum rating (top 1000 most popular titles by player count). Besides that 45% have Gold, and nowadays more often than not that means the game simply just works.
Trying to say "oh, but it doesn't always work perfect!" is just nonsense.
How many games work perfectly without any issues on Windows?
And please don't say anything about "UI polish" on Windows when it can't even keep all its UI consistent - it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
And Twitch... almost every game in top #10 works perfectly without any troubles, so what's your point exactly?
I only use my over speed PC for one thing. Gaming. I've looked into going to Linux and shuddered at the immense trouble trying to make it work for me. I'm with you in that I have the knowledge, having used it for a couple decades, but I just don't care to put myself through mountains of bullshit for an idea.
Humans are creatures of habit. The average user won't switch until the pain of using what they know outweighs the pain of learning something new + the fear of something new.
I have mint dual booted on my laptop with Win 11. I find myself using Win11 more.
Idk why, linux mint doesn't feel finished to me:
120hz won't work with my dock (works fine in ubuntu and w11)
Touchpad scrolling is insanely quick and almost unusable
My mouse jitters allover, accelleration or something seems wrong.
Can't seem to set different governors depending on battery or power.
Fingerprint doesn't have a driver (works in Ubuntu ok though).
Scaling 125% seems janky, everything is blurry as shit
It does work mostly ok though and is quick, but it doesn't feel polished. Ubuntu was great but fuck snap packages.
It’d certainly convince me. I run windows 11 since my laptop came with it but if I had to pay for my OS I’d run to Linux. The existence of Proton makes it much easier to switch now as well.
I could probably move to Linux now but I have a couple windows applications that connect to audio hardware for configuration. I wonder if such applications would work with Wine…
Switching to a Linux can be overwhelming. A few distros have made great strides to make most of the OS work right after installing it. But even if there’s only 1% issues due to hardware, drivers, gaming, etc., troubleshooting those issues would often require using terminal and are not accessible to everyone. There’s no customer support to reach out to, and online forums can be difficult to navigate for someone not familiar with coding.
Most of my tech literate (yes, literate, not illiterate) friends were actually supportive of this.
So imagine what tech illiterates will be like.
Most people will just accept it as a cost of computing, I fear.
For personal use maybe. Im 100% my job (and possibly most workplaces) will just eat the subscription cost to stick with what they know.
So the year of the Linux desktop is finally happening
I have used Windows for a decade now and keep using it because my workflows and the application support are there. But as someone that uses Linux on my server, has tried out Linux desktops, and uses WSL, I can confidently say that I am gone if they start charging me a subscription. It will be annoying as hell but just like leaving Reddit I am willing to give up some niceties to keep my money and my morals.
The rise of Linux is upon us
The perpetual year of the Linux desktop.
Year of the Linux desktop for most users is always n+1
For me it has been since 2012.
The one thing Microsoft will never do is try to deliver a good product. The executives would rather gouge the users for every last penny and steal all their data, and this will be it's downfall. Linux has the advantage, and is only getting started.
I'd be down with Valve making a proprietary distribution of SteamOS that's easily installable, and works with other CPUs.
Wasn't this the basic premise of SteamMachines?
"We'll shut down your computer after this quick message from our sponsor!"
Unlock right-click for only $4.99 a month!
So does Linux, I subscribe to the Arch rss feed, which is the operating system I use btw.
Oh thank goodness you told me, I thought you might be an Ubuntu user there for a sec
I know there's always someone evangelizing Linux when you mention Windows anything, but when Microsoft requires a subscription for Windows is the day I will actually move to Linux.
Why not now?
Not the commenter but the answer is easy - right now, it's not costing me anything to run Windows on my PC, and installing Linux takes research, time, and attention that I don't feel like investing in my home PC at the moment. Probably the next PC I build (whenever my 10 year old Dell i7 is too damn slow, only now starting to get laggy) will run Linux. Previously I only installed linux on laptops I retired from active use, just for shits and giggles. Never once had a linux powerhouse, but now that linux gaming is a reality, I'm very interested in getting away from the advertising platform that Windows has become.
I knew sooner or later they'd push me to Linux, but that'd do it alright
I've never used Linux before but if this happens I'm going to have to figure out how.
With this subscription, the year of the Linux desktop will finally be here.
It is for me.
This might finally provide the momentum to switch to Linux.
My hate for subscriptions > my laziness.
I will either go Linux or Windows 95.
I can confirm if Windows ever required a subscription I'd be swapping to Linux so fast. So Fast.
Am not convinced this will happen with Win12 or anytime soon. Microsoft realizes if they did this they would be losing monopoly over desktop operating system and with that they will lose a lot more than just OS money as people will migrate towards alternative software, like Google Docs or LibreOffice. What might end up happening is subscription based pro edition or something similar. If there's ever subscription for all of Windows am assuming they will make it easy to pirate.
Maybe the subscription edition means that it will be a different tier, so you will buy Windows for cheaper, but you have to pay a monthly or yearly subscription.
Or it has some connection to your Microsoft 365 subscription, and it would give you more Copilot/Other AI features.
Good thing I've been learning to use linux for the past couple of years, if they double down on this I'll switch permanently, just got to find a distro I like because I haven't been able to find anything that just "works" without eventually having to open the terminal for one reason or another.
I am trying to make the switch. The final straw for me was the starfield ad on my lockscreen followed by an accidental click that led to an ad for gamepass. I just watched 3 or 4 videos trying to do something simple that I don't know how to do. Each video from different creators have this running on a screen. Thought it was kind of funny.
Edit I really struggled getting games to work so I quit trying.
Honestly, the terminal is probably not going to be that hard to use for you. Considering that you're on lemmy, you're probably ahead of the curve in tech skills. Maybe don't go picking something in the deep end like arch though.
/j I use arch btw.
I would switch to Linux.... Gaming has gotten much better on it thanks to proton.
I will happily just not use it. My desktop usage is already 99% Linux, and it has been for considerable amount of time too. The only thing holding me back is my Destiny 2 guild. The moment that is allowed through Proton, I will be removing the partition completely
I'm so confused why Bungie doesn't just flip the Linux switch on... they don't have to do anything else. Cheating can't be the problem, since most cheats are developed for Windows anyways... as for support, the Linux community is very self sufficient, look at all the games running on through proton out of the box
Sometimes moneygrubbing shareholders do us a favor by steering companies into implementing terrible policies. If Reddit wouldn't have been so greedy with it's treatment of third-party app developers most of use wouldn't be on Lemmy right now. If Microsoft forces Windows users to pay a subscription I think it sends more people away from closed-source garbage and into the arms of the open source community. I've enjoyed watching Reddit implode, hopefully I get to watch a similar show from our friends at Microsoft.
I actually rather like win 10. Win 11 I'm holding off on until they fix the taskbar.
If they go subscription, I go Ubuntu.
Uhhhhh....
https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/no-of-course-windows-12-wont-require-a-subscription-to-use
Yeah, and... https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
From the article:
These references are almost definitely tied to the newly discovered "IoT Enterprise Subscription" edition of Windows 11, not the client version of Windows vNext.
With that said, I don't think it's unlikely that the next version of Windows will have some new capabilities that require a subscription to utilize, tied to your Microsoft account and services.
Linux. Again. Install Linux
Ubuntu Linux Debian Linux Fedora Linux Pop!os linux Arch Linux for all i care
Install Linux, stop accepting this bullshit from Microsoft. ALL of their software sucks, they care more about marketing and pulling money out of your pocket than actually giving quality software.
Open source software blows everything Microsoft out of the water, stop accepting the bullshit
Maybe this isn’t for personal editions.
I’d suspect Microsoft would prefer to move personal editions to being mostly perpetual and OEM licenses, while a subscription service for business/enterprise makes more sense. Windows licensing for business is a nightmare and a per-install subscription model could be much simpler to manage while still offering good breaks under Enterprise Agreements and putting license and support under one annual sku.
ETA: Also, worth remembering that “Windows 365” is a thing and it’s very useful for DaaS. Term-based licensing makes tons of sense for DaaS/Cloud Desktop/VDI environments.
And actually, that could make a lot of sense in a future home/personal market with purpose built thin clients. Or perhaps even a set top box. Maybe, even, the Series S. A small monthly/annual fee to to make your Series S into a full-fledged desktop PC, sounds like a hell of a deal to me.
That's IMHO the best scenario we can hope for, though it doesn't seem promising even to pessimists like me.
"Error 200067 our login servers are currently busy. Please try doing business again in a few hours"
I'm already using Linux alot, and Windows 10 sometimes. I would drop Windows entirely if it were subscription model.
Not even confirmed but people here are already losing their mind.
Microsoft has a long and storied history of doing the worst and dumbest possible things with Windows as a platform, so, it's pretty easy to see why people find it very easy to assume the worst here.
Bahahaha okay. Linux here we come!
Steam Deck demand might not be met next few years.
I have ran GNU/Linux since the early 1990s. Practically since it first existed. Distributions like MuLinux, Yellowdog Linux, Slackware, Debian, etc. This generally has lead to multiple difficulties. Sometimes I had to dual boot to get around said difficulties. Around 2010, I got good enough with WINE, software work arounds and alternatives that I didn't need to dual boot anymore. I did like to play various games still back then, but around 2010 Valve's GNU/Linux support was improving (unless my memory deceives me)
This post has made me feel that for the first time, all that struggle was worth it, heh.
On a side note, there's some sort of dark irony with personal ownership dying under capitalism. I feel like the majority of us hate all these subscriptions models, but we keep playing along .vs. becoming cave hermits.
Cave hermit here and I was delighted the first time I launched Quake 3 Arena on a linux distro. I'm wading deeper into the linux pool since Microsoft has lost their mind. Ads have no place in an operating system.
Gaming has tied me to Windows for decades, but thanks to companies like Valve and System 76 the long awaited shift may continue accelerating.
I'm glad to be here to see it.
Yeah there is a lot that was promised with capitalism that turned out to be not so.
Turns out we weren't the Capitalists.
We're, "Glorified indentured servants", 1800s USA Irish immigrant style.
....An I think that is the best case scenario.
I felt it was worth it from day one. Had so much fun over the years with it too.
After seeing what the Steam Deck does with Windows emulation for games, my interset in having a windows gaming computer is barely hanging on.
This would 100% influence my next gaming computer to shy away from Windows 12
Wine Is Not an Emulator (WINE)
Looks like the push I'll need to finally move all my gaming over to a Linux box.
Highly recommended pop_os its made gaming easy
Been using Ubuntu for gaming for 99% of the time for half a year now. Basically no issues, most of my steam library works out of the box with proton. It's very doable now, no need to wait.
"Windows 12 is now included with game pass ultimate "
If they launch a subscription that includes ad-free Win12, Office, OneDrive and GamePass for like $20 a month, a lot of people would actually be happy about the change. Especially if the base version of Win12 was free with ads.
Then once people are happy with how good the deal is, they start raising the price and removing things that were once included.
Generally curious how many people that have clung to Windows largely due to gaming have made the switch or plan to make the switch now that Valve has done such great work with Proton. I know I am certainly considering it and this is the kind of thing that will expedite that.
Bigger thing for me is the Adobe shit. Those fuckers have monopolized creativity tools, and I haven't heard of good alternatives for Linux.
I don't even want windows 11. What makes them think I'm gonna actively buy and pay a subscription for Windows 12. Linux exists and I will absolutely buy a computer, wipe it and put a Linux distro on it. Microsoft is way too invested in this subscription nonsense.
Fuck that noise
I am not convinced this will make people switch to Linux btw. That has been said about every new Windows edition. Especially in case of an ad supported free tier (as the article mentions as possibility). Then most consumers will just use that.
A subscription really would push me to linux. I already prefer it at work anyway.
They’re seemingly making windows less and less enterprise friendly. Which I thought was their bread and butter. It’s crazy since they’re not even competing with other OS on a price level. Linux is free and MacOS is free but with hardware. It’s like MS is purposely tanking Windows I don’t get it.
Enshittification?
They see the writing on the wall. OS are mature. Competition is good and new versions bring little but cosmetic changes. So they will wring their customers for all they are worth while inertia prevents moving to alternatives. All the whole, forcing upgrades to Windows with monopolistic behaviour and nagging and misleading prompts.
More like monetization phase. As seen with Netflix and Co.
Hmm, I’ll be running Windows 10 after EOL then. I won’t pay for Adobe subscriptions, I won’t pay for ANY monthly subscriptions. I will license lifetime software with 1 year of updates but that software works after the update phase has passed.
I've started to transition into linux to prepare for the future. It's been good so far.
Transitioned 3 years ago. I dual boot for one reason:
Games with anti-cheat.
Once devs start treating us penguins like people I can delete some partitions.
I'm only on windows because it's easier for my setup and game support. The second that becomes costly or annoying is when I nuke my C drive and reinstall Mint. I used to use it as my daily before I started gaming heavily, I can easily go back.
What will be the Windows equivalent to "drink verification can?"
Sign me up! I need yet another monthly subscription!
Sorry man, your subscription to SignMeUp Subscription Subscriber isn't active.
Ooh, sorry. Looks like you need SignMeUp Subscription Subscriber Plus to manage more subscriptions.
And Windows 12 will become business use only.
edit, i only see this being the case for an enterprise version tied to azure ad. There will still be a retail version.
I mean, how the hell wouldn't it? What's more surprising to me is that they didn't do this with 11. Everyone is totally used to this model at this point and while we all hate it, it's become the accepted way of living for most tech products now. If you are a big corporation and can get away with making customers rent your product instead of buy it, you are going to make so much more money. Of course they will choose this.
They need to bring ads in at 11
Then use 12 for ad-free subscription
Then both sides are justified by virtue of the other existing
What's laughable is how quickly they're abandoning Windows 11
Eh? 11 has been out for what, 2-3 years now? And it'll likely be supported for another 5-8, easily. This article is talking about a beta version of 12, which means it'll likely be another 2 years before public release. Most enterprise settings won't even bother with 12 until at least a couple years after it's launched.
There's a limit to how willing consumers are to continue adding new subscriptions. We're seeing this happen right now in the car industry. Subscription is only a proven model in content delivery systems, and even those are slowly starting to fail. I think that the average consumer would be very resistant to pay monthly for an operating system. Most people barely even understand what an operating system is. There's no way places like the EU will allow this either.
I’m just so sick of it. God I miss the early 2000s era of just about everything.
Guess it's time for templeOS then?
That feel when you just moved to Linux and you still enjoy Halo and Forza.
Gaben literal god tier status
I'm somewhat amused by the fact that lots of people are suggesting Linux as an alternative but can't agree on which flavor to use as the alternative.
Don't get me wrong, I think Linux is awesome, but this is the problem. You're never going to get the saturation necessary to bring average consumers over in significant numbers until they have a clear choice.
This user to be Ubuntu. I think I see probably something like SteamOS maybe being a standard in the future since many who stay on windows are doing so for gaming reasons, and that's the best prebuilt distribution for gaming.
Mint. The answer is Mint.
As a windows user, that desperately wants Linux to be user friendly enough, Mint is the only one that comes close.
Last time I tried the switch, it was just miles ahead of the rest of the distros.
The future is riddled with choice. That's kinda the point and it encourages competition and results in better products. The choice may not be obvious now but will become with time. Leaving reddit? A year ago, the alternative was unknown, today the choice is clearer.
So, Linux is written by system programmers for system programmers.
The rest of us get to outsource that work by using a premade distribution, where system programmers mostly volunteer their time and efforts to package togther the system they want to use and they distribute it for free. Of course, there is no consensus of what anyone wants to use so there are lots of different distributions.
This isn't a problem and there will never be consensus.
If you need a "clear choice", you can always subscribe to one from Microsoft.
This must be one of the most uninformed comment in a long time. Already 2001, there was quite a lot of UI work being done by the company Eazel, founded by Andy Hertzfeld who from Apple and with a bunch of former Apple people. Around the same time, Ximian (I think) was pushing project Utopia with the idea to form project teams of people from kernel devs up to UX, to ensure common tasks worked out of the box. One result of this is that printer configuration on Linux is a much easier than on any other OS. This all happened 20+ years ago, there have been quite a lot of UX people involved after that. And my experience is that people with little prior knowledge have an easier time with a modern Gnome desktop, than with Windows. The problem here is that most people know Windows to some extent, and are used to the weird quirks there, but any slight inconvenience on a new OS make them quit.
The thing is you won't find people discussing which service pack of windows to use. The cool thing about Linux is the diversity in environments. If win12 is a subscription based build, I will be joining the flock moving to Linux. After that moment linux will have all the saturation necessary for whatever is in store. I just hope it stays FOSS.
For the "I just want things to work because I got home and I don't want to deal with any troubleshooting" crowd like myself, should look to Ubuntu, Mint, and Pop!.
Different hardware combinations may work slightly better/worse on each, but they are all plug and play.
Mint is what I generally recommend
autokms is gonna get a lot more popular if microsoft do this
Looks like M$ really got to like Linux! It does everything to promote it! :D
This has already been debunked.
I would definitely pay a subscription for windows 12 if hell froze over and it was the only operating system on Earth. I have very little experience with Linux, limited entirely to my steam deck, and it certainly hasn't been awful. It isn't what most of us are used to but it's not like it's completely insane and unusable.
This is good news for everyone.
This coupled with a few years of proton becoming very usable is an interesting mix.
Is this the year?
let us pray together
I would assume that the subscription they found is similar to existing subscription models for enterprise like E5, which includes Windows 11. I doubt this will get to the consumer level.
Windows was kind of cool until Windows XP (Windows 2000 was also really good), because at the time you felt like you had software where you could see that lots of engineering went into it, and most importantly that you could feel you owned (EULA-aside obviously): you pay once for the license and it's done, the OS is immediately usable. Recent Windows versions went through enshittification and Microsoft now harasses you from time to time to join their online services. Even on the first boot you immediately get harassed to create a Microsoft account and allow them to use your data, and you need to say no many times. Microsoft still makes you feel like you aren't done paying.
It's frankly hilarious how Microsoft is killing its own product. Windows went from something that used to be good and felt like a real software engineering product (Windows 2000 and XP) to something now that feels like a sketchy malware-infused phone app.
Ha! They can blow me all the way to my full Linux conversion at that point.
How to lose marketshare speedrun?
I have been using computers since before there was an internet. I have used DOS and now Windows 10. Is there a good place to learn about Linux with a GUI and which one I should purchase? I'm so tired of M$.
Edit: I am primarily a PC gamer that uses Steam and this is what has kept me from using another OS in the past.
I would recommend linux mint. Its completely free, has a nice gui, and is fairly straight forward to use. All you need to do is download the iso file from their website. If you want to try using it you can put it in a virtual machine to try it out first and then if you want to actually use it just download a program called rufus to flash the iso file onto a flash drive and then boot from the flash drive. There are plenty of tutorials on how to do this on youtube.
As others have said, Mint or Pop_OS are your best options. It really depends on what you want in terms of layout. Do you want a more apple mac osx look or a Windows look, if you want Mac then pop, if you want Windows then mint. They're both based on the same OS, Ubuntu, and in Mint's case there's a Debian edition. None of these have a price, they're free, you have nothing to lose trying them out.
Linux is pretty much universally free, with the exception of a few select distributions like Red Hat Enterprise Linux (and even then, there's variants of RHEL that are free like CentOS and Fedora, the main attraction for RHEL is paid support).
Most distributions are fairly similar, these days, with the main differences being the desktop environment (i.e. how the UI looks and feels), the update cadence (some distros are much more aggressive about deploying updates to the software and utilities underlying the distro, which gives new features faster at the cost of breaking things more often, while other distros prefer to stay on older, known-stable versions longer, at the cost of being slower to deploy new features that sometimes a program needs to run), and the methods used to configure settings (some distros go out of their way to make as much configureable in the GUI as possible, while others are primarily configured through console commands, and others like Gentoo expect you to manually compile pretty much all the software yourself--this makes it extremely customizable, but extremely difficult), and the default file format for package installation (rpm, deb, flatpaks, snaps, etc).
My personal recommendation is to check out a few of these:
Ubuntu
Linux Mint (or Cinnamon)
EndeavorOS
Pop!OS
I also recommend that when you first format the disk, you make two partitions: one smaller 50-100 GB partition for the root partition (where Linux stores its system files and software), and a larger partition for /home, which is where all your personal files are stored. This way, you can easily swap between different distros without needing to really worry about losing your files.
I third Linux Mint. Everything you need is in the same place as you'd find it on Windows. Everything simply works out of the box. It's a very smooth transition. If you dual-boot you don't even need to get rid of Windows before you're comfortable. (I keep Windows available for games.)
Hello Linux my old friend..........
They can't even consistently get people to pay for one time and they're expecting a subscription? Lol they're massively out of touch.
Gestures broadly
Have you looked at the tech sector recently? Out of touch describes most corporations at the moment.
That will be the final kick in the pants I need to switch to QubesOS. How much fucking money do they actually need?
If they do this. I'm going to use WINE on QubesOS...but then again. If the only penalty for not paying is ads, there's going to be ways of blocking those.
Subscriptions need to fuck off. I made a stand a few months ago. I will not subscribe to anything at all unless i'm getting INSANE value.
Cancelled streaming, random apps, patreon etc. I now have usenet and backblaze b2 for about £3 a month each. Saving me a fortune 🏴☠️🦜
I'm probably going to get flammed for this, so let me just say I'm already a Linux user.
We need to cool our jets here. Windows 12 isn't even confirmed yet, and there's no proof that it will require a subscription. That being said, a subscription service isn't necessarily a bad thing if it will allow users to have access to features they need, or replace other existing subscription services like xbox game pass, cloud storage, media, etc...
I disagree. Our lives are all subscriptions now and you own nothing. I will avoid any subscription if possible
You're the type that gets excited every time postage stamp prices increase.
How would cooling our jets help? I really like the idea of going into Linux, and the more MS pushes the subscription/rental model, the more I'm encouraged to do so. Corporations like to float their ideas to the media as a way of surveying the market. These rumors could be just that. The idea of building a Linux PC sounds fun. I never had the need for any of these subscription services. I have a backlog of games I own, my own HDDs, MP3s, from CDs or the like, that I bought. I don't need to pay yearly for those.
Proton will be ready by then.
They are doing the same with Windows that they did with Office. Win12 will come as either one time purchase or subscription based but over the course of 10 years they'll push harder and harder on getting people into the subscription version. Once it has enough uptake, and it will get there, they will then start pushing the "Why run it on local hardware when you can put it in our cloud and access it from anywhere?".
They're already doing the Virtual Desktop thing in both M365 and Azure now so it'll be a pretty easy transition when comes.
Microsoft please make the default OS a subscription. I want what happened to Reddit+Lemmy+etc to happen to Windows+Linux
I L O L from Linux.
I mean, Windows has been basically free(as in beer, of course) for some time now. I don't think this will gravely affect personal users. I don't think they're stupid enough to actually expect personal users to understand SUBSCRIPTION OS. Maybe Enterprise edition gets the subscriptions model for the support?
Either way, Windows sucks. Surface laptops are real great though.
It's not free, when you pay for a laptop or something that has a valid windows license on it, it's actually included in the price of that laptop
I've seen some people saying that there's no way Microsoft is this stupid. Some really, really, really obviously bad choices (see: Wizards of the Coast's OGL debacle) have been made because MBAs got greedy and convinced themselves it would be fine. I find it hard to believe that Microsoft would fuck up this badly, but it's not out of the spectrum of possibility. What I think is more likely is that this is one of those 'leaks' where they're testing the public reaction, like when Wizards leaked the changes to the OGL via journalists. Hopefully (or not, if you're a Linux fan) Microsoft plays it smarter than Wizards, because Wizards saw the immense public backlash, gave the sorriest corporate half apology ever, and then proceeded to double down, and it blew up in their face big time.
I doubt that Windows 12 itself will require a subscription. There will probably be a subscription for all the AI trash Micro$oft has been implementing into the OS.
Microsoft: "Windows 12 is free but all our great built-in apps like Candy Crush, Linkedin, and MegaStomp are unavailable without a subscription."
Me: "Yup."
Microsoft: "But if you don't subscribe, you'll miss out on hot celebrity gossip and the latest fashion news! And you won't be able to use Bing AI to find great deals on amazing products from our trusted corporate partners!"
Me: "Sounds good, thanks."
If only Photoshop and After Effects worked on Linux / Wine I wouldve switched long ago..
Emacs is my motion graphics compositor of choice on linux.
I don't think this is anyway a serious option. They aren't idiots.
My guess is they’ll follow the Office model: offer both as an option, but slowly improve only the subscription version until it’s not really feasible to stay on the pay-once model. Then kill it off. So maybe we have another 5-8 years before it’s fully enshittified?
My desktop PC kicked the bucket after 10 years a few months back and I ended up using my Steam Deck as my primary computer for about a month. In that time I learned that Linux isn't so bad.
If forced to either pay a subscription for Windows or switch to Linux the choice seems simple for me at this point.
Yeah, I'll just get Linux.
This will be the first day in years I will try to make gaming work on Linux once again.
Its so fuckibg easy for most games now. I just click install ad than play on steam
It's Linux time then.
And then Linux will finally get the attention it has always deserved.
And that will be the end of me using Windows for anything aside from AutoCAD & ArcGIS.
the only reason why I still using windows is gaming. give me a platform where I can use steam and gog and I will not be touching windows ever again if not in a professional capacity.
Fuck subscription models
You can use Proton on Linux to make Steam and windows games work. It's the same way the Steam Deck runs games even though it's Linux based.
Lutris + Proton.
Baldur's Gate 3? Yep.
Cyberpunk with raytracing, DLSS, and mods? Yep (a bit of tinkering required)
I boot Windows only for Battlefield 2042 now, thanks to DICE's implementation of EAC
yep i guessed it end of windows 11 will begin growing of linux
Honestly OneDrive is actually very good as far as cloud storage platforms go. It just works. I paid for a subscription for a few years.
But starting around the 1000th time Microsoft tried to install even more bloatware I started looking for alternatives. For the low low price of "spend a few minutes learning about Tailscale" and buying a few extra hard drives, I've got 24TB of storage. My most important stuff gets encrypted locally and backed up to B2. I use Immich to manage my photos, so now I dropped my Google Drive subscription as well. Still on the fence about Nextcloud's office suites but LibreOffice works great.
The only reason I still use Win11 is because gaming on Linux still has some issues with the games I play.
I don't really know how your gonna sell people on this exactly. Like people will just stop buying laptops. The average person just buys a laptop at walmart in the desired size, from any brand. They don't even really think about windows. I just don't really see this working for anyone. What will end up happening is Chromebooks will overtake the laptop market if microsoft goes all in on this.
This is great for linux, but I think many laptops come with a protected BIOS that won't allow you to boot other OS's what do you guys do in this case? Also, correct me if I'm wrong!
This is called Secure Boot, it's part of the UEFI standard which replaces BIOS. Nowadays it's supported OOTB by most major distros (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, ...), but you can usually disable it with a simple toggle in the UEFI config menu.
Look at reactOS for a redo of golden-age windows.
Ahoy Mateys 🏴☠️
I would happily subscribe to an operating system for a fair price, as long as it's stable, compatible, has timely security updates and - and I highly doubt MS will do this one - without any bloat-, nag- or crapware. Make your default browser a browser, not a spying shopping coupon Bing AI mess. Let me choose the search engine the start menu uses (or use none at all), stop telling me to sign into OneDrive every chance you get, fuck off with your widgets, etc.
If I pay, you have no business trying to fuck me over, Microsoft.
They are going to try and fuck you over.
I'll just use the pirated versions with the malware ripped off of it, thank you. Tiny11 is a beauty to run already.
@billiam0202
Windows is nothing but a nightmare. It's privacy invasive, uses too much resources, breaks 24 7, has a boring UI, limited customization, more susceptible to viruses than any other OS, etc...
People should just switch over to Linux IMO.
I went full Linux (at home - no choice a work) in 2007. It was painful, though way less painful than it was for the folks doing it in the mid-late 90s. (I took a shot and failed during that time.)
Literally each passing year since then, with what I see at work and in the news regarding Microsoft and Windows, has done nothing but deepen my conviction that it was the right move.
I'm years past trying to convince people who don't care about the technical advantages, but I'm really disheartened to see how the telemetry and privacy concerns, and now the idea of software as a service, is not even a blip on most folks' radar.
I hardly think MS is going this route. It maybe for AI stuff they are pushing in the OS and not the OS itself
Lmao!
As much as I'd like a Linux rise from this, I think it's not unlikely Google will make a desktop OS (not the half done chrome OS.
They would probably shut it down after 2 years. Sooner if it was any good.
At this rate I'm gonna be on 10 for forever
I can't imagine this is entirely true. I bet they will charge for advanced features
I donate to Gentoo every once in a while so I don't have to live this life.
Please do this microchumps
So basically, finally Linux time? I actually like Windows but I ain't putting up with that shit.
Microsoft would be as stupid as your typical League of Legends player for going down that route. Doing this would be an own-goal and would give Linux market share instantly.
They gotta be crazy to do this to consumer Windows, since it's been like, free for a lot of people now.
Good thing that not one OS is Windows in our household and workshop.
There is literally no advantage in using Windows anymore for us.
Laughing in Debian 12
meh debian is great as a server but needs a lot of work out of the box to be used as a desktop. Better off with mint if you want a great out of the box experience
Wondering how will F2P games with anti-cheat react to the news. Knowing that much of their player base may jump ship to Linux to avoid the subscription fees, will they relent and start using less invasive anti-cheat programs, or will they try to adapt specific versions of Wine / Proton to work in rooted mode?
I think an optimistic view would be 1% of their users jump ship…until they see their game isn’t available and they jump back