I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I've seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I'm glad that we do it, but i wouldn't say we are better than anyone else.
Thanks for the honest take, a lot of people get caught up in the idea that if an organization does something that aligns with them, they are good or doing it for the same reasons.
There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.
They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.
I mean we have SAP but they are probably not affected by this law.
SAP
All my homies hate SAP
Nah, it still would be much harder.
Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.
To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.
Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic "it's for the children's safety" lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it's mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it's really only the Commission who doesn't want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
ABOUT FUCKING TIME.
Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
Well they'll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.
That is easy enough to block or deal with.
At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.
I can't wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.
Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can't access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there's that.
An electoral democracy, we choose those that make the laws. Due to the 2 party system we don't have many options for when they fail to do what they claim they will.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don't need to worry about it personally doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about how it affects others.
We're basically dependent on the EU and California to have any rights as consumers at all.
That's pretty crazy when I think about it. And I'm from within the EU.
Don't forget California's emissions standards effectively forcing car manufacturers to make more efficient vehicles for the entire NA market!
Today when I updated Windows11, I got copilot and we were discussing how it's unacceptable to not let me uninstall Microsoft Edge, well I was, Copilot was just chilling it, but it did agree eventually
But this is only happening in Europe, which means Microsoft didn't suddenly turn pure hearted, it's just the law forcing them into it ....
Yeah this isn't as good as it sounds, the other 5 continents are still stuck with all of this garbage.
If they don't make it international, they're asking for piracy
They’ll just enable/disable features based on geolocation. I doubt it’ll be a whole different version like in the good old days.
If that's the case then a determined user could enable these hidden features via Powershell, only time will tell
Skill issue, what's stopping other countries from creating better laws?
The problem is that showing enough politicians money effectively makes you become the government. There's minimal chance of a law being introduced unless a rich person or corporation backs it, and EU laws would interfere with their shady business practices.
Not big enough to force companies to make large changes. The US is, China and India are. But what about Australia or New Zealand? Or any of the individual south american countries? Too many changes, microsoft or one of the other big players will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
If they already have a version compatible with EU law, they will just roll it out instead of removing an entire country from their market.
Would be a bad business move otherwise.
Of course, only if the laws don't force even more restrictions.
Valve only started doing 2-hour refunds after Australia twisted their arm about it. They brought it to the world, and it became an incredible selling point. Perhaps this will be the same thing.
Valve is a lot more consumer friendly to begin with, though. Don't get me wrong, they did heaps of bad things too, but compared to Microsoft?
Yeah turns out businesses behave when you legislate their misdeeds instead of just calling them job creators
Now there will be two versions of Windows. One that adheres to EU regulation, and another that's filled with ads for everyone else.
Windows 12 Euro Trash Edition and Windows 12 Red Blooded God Anointed American Edition. If either crosses the EU boarder the computer will explode killing everyone in a 10 meter radius.
I feel like that might also violate some regulations
It’ll be one version, they’ll just force certain “features” on you based on the region you’re in as determined by your system time, GPS location, or IP address
They say if you don't pay, you're the product, but that's obviously bullshit, paying solves nothing. The saying should be never trust corporations.
If you don't pay, you are the product.
If you pay, you are the product + you are paying.
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that's the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
Exactly. All the latest chaos that Microsoft does, you know you'll be immune and your desktop will be the same for as long as you get bored of it lol.
My laptop gets the fun experiments, my desktop plays the games
Same except in reverse lol. My laptop is out of date fedora because I'm lazy to update since it's a youtube/twitch machine pretty much. My desktop gets the bleeding edge + games.
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can't get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it's almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect.
My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven't found anything that doesn't work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Once steam covers 90% of games windows becomes irrelevant.
So what you’re saying is, 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop?
I know that phrase is the most beaten dead horse around at this point but the year of the Linux desktop is going to be different depending on what your requirements are.
If you just need to browse the web, it's been there for over a decade. Same for most dev work.
For gaming, it's already there for most titles. Pretty much everything I try works now unless it has anticheat. It's been in a pretty good state for 2 or 3 years now at least.
For media creation and specialized software, it's not there yet. The big stuff like adobe will probably never get ported and the free alternatives vary wildly in quality. Blender is awesome. GIMP is not. There's also issues like lacking color management and iffy HDR support.
I do wonder about that, Gen Z and Alpha are less tech savvy than millennials, so there's non zero odds that it doesn't work out because Linux isn't easily accessible in the tablet/phone space yet.
I think we need rock-solid Wayland before we can expect TYLD. So I'm feeling 2026 minimum, then add a couple for some padding; so 2028 realistically. Think of how far we've come in 5 years, then imagine 5 years more.
If Nvidia's consumer GPU market share dropped a bit too, that'd help.
Why do you think that Wayland is necessary for adoption?
In my opinion it is the missing hardware drivers, compatability issues and "getting your hands dirty" while constantly tweaking stuff.
Yeah it got better over the years, but most people want things to just work.
At last. This is actually good news for Windows itself because people will be more inclined to use it again if they don't see ads, aren't tracked, can set any default browser etc.
So it's good for both users and Microsoft.
Sometimes these corporations just can't help themselves by adding trash and they need a mommy figure to force them to stop doing that which ultimately benefits themselves.
Thing is for me windows opened a pandora's box that goes further than just ad-free, once I started getting into open software thanks to switching to linux, I realized it's not just the them saying there's no tracking, it's the being able to see it for yourself, it's the there being a 1000 eyes on a project that don't have a motivation to lie to you, checking making sure that there are no trackers.
It's no longer just sbout them saying "it's all good we ain't spying" it's about a project with a thousand eyes on them making sure this is actually the case, plus the nature of most open licenses where every fork also needs to follow such license.
It's starting to become a sort of change in how I see society working with each other and I whish there were other aspects of life where such a philosophy vould be applied.
Agree 100%. Free Software user here. Linux Mint Debian Edition is what I'm running.
I wish all software and hardware abided by the FOSS principles
FUCK YEAH! EAT SHIT MICROSOFT!
I mean...I still would've blocked the ads no matter what. I paid for my computer it's mine and I should be allowed to control it.
I’m genuinely worried if hell is okay, are you guys getting a tad chilly?
We've somehow managed to create reverse climate change in the unholy fires themselves
Next up to freeze: Google's unholy war on ad-blockers. A decisive blow to that would make this a holy trilogy 😄
IT Sysadmin from the non-profit circle checking in. It's actually unseasonably warm right now.
I can't speak for the pharmaceutical IT, Medical IT, metal fabrication IT, bakery IT, education IT, or embedded systems IT circles, though. Might be getting nippy over thereabouts.
Based EU.
I'm moving to the EU.
With your username, you'd do great in the Netherlands
I'm considering going to Flanders instead. I actually made my username like that on purpose.
I don't think people will like me based on my ethnic background alone, though.
How do they verify that I'm in the EEA? Do I need to sign up through a VPN when I register Windows or do I just specify an EEA country during the install?
Does this also mean Google will let me uninstall Chrome from my Android device? Or is this only about PC's?
I hope we will get there too. Be able to fully install and uninstall Google services.
I hope the ability to install whatever OS on your phone that you want will become mandated and the default for all cell phones.
Even if this was allowed. Surely most apps wont run anymore in the name of security
Not really, most OS for phones are android based anyway. Having the choice of an ungoogled android is always a plus, much like many people just want an ungoogled chrome
But will they let you disable tracking and telemetry?
You wanna guess?
I already know the answer. Windows isn’t the product. We’re the product.
I live in the UK, and because of Brexit we won't get this. Thanks Nigel Farage.
I expect that it's because we're not in the EU that measures like this can be passed there. Maybe in 10-20 years time we can rejoin an EU massively improved by our absence.
I read elsewhere that this good news only benefits EU users of Windows 11.
VPN go brrrr. Now you're an EU user.
As far as i understand it it doesn't even check your location. It checks the Language & Region in your initial Pc Setup steps. So you have to reset your pc to do that... Until someone figures an alternativ way without resetting your pc i guess.
Why would you need to reset your PC to change your region?
You can just go to region and language settings and do it there.
Microsoft needs to comply even if the laptop was originally bought outside the EU.
At least in the past this sort of thing has sometimes made it into Group Policy settings that can be set if you use the Pro version of Windows, but more and more of that is locked down.
A bunch of privacy related settings for Edge can only be set if you're running the Education version of Windows. On Pro/Enterprise the options are available but won't work. Microsoft is determined to make it impossible to run Windows without allowing them to do whatever they want with your data.
Ya, then just install the N version. It's not some weird region locked thing. If you tell Microsoft you don't have a product key, you'll get a list of windows versions you can install, and you just select the N version.
I wonder if this also applies to allow uninstalling Safari browser on MacOS, and allow other browser engines into iOS devices instead of WebKit Safari clones.
Yeah! How about allowing uninstallation of Chrome from Android?!
I would be so happy if they just let browser extensions work on 3rd party browsers. They already force them to use WebKit. Why are the extensions not working?
I'm desperately waiting for a reputed company like Samsung to ditch windows and introduce linux pre-installed laptops
Samsung a reputed company? The Samsung of the ad-ridden smart TVs?
System 76
There was a brief moment in the 2000s where major manufacturers were selling computers with Linux preinstalled. A lot of netbooks and thin clients had Ubuntu as an option.
Simply having the option is a good start, but a lot of people would buy those and ask "a friend" to install windows instead. I've seen that happen quite often in the early 2010s
Like Dell?
Dell's Linux support is laughable. I have the distinct displeasure of dealing with their shit quality right now. Camera doesn't work, fans spin up for no reason, graphics card stutters / sometimes there's no hardware acceleration... Actual linux shops like system76, purism, tuxedocomputers, slimbook, and other better hardware, better pricing, and better hardware support.
Dell, Fujitsu, HP, etc. are OK as Linux hardware providers, but it's clear that their main business is till WIndows.
The sad thing is that this happens because someone forces them to comply and not out of principle.
Why would they though and out of which which principle? Microsoft's principle is "generate as much profit as possible without antagonizing customers to much". Microsoft is, at its core, a profit driven business and not a business driven by ethics.
Microsoft has published a new blog post which details how Windows 11 will be made compliant with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) in the European Economic Area (EEA.)
To be compliant, Microsoft has made several changes to the OS, which now allows users to choose between providers and uninstall most in-box apps.
The company describes these changes as specific to Windows 11 PCs in the EEA, so it's unclear if users outside this area will be able to utilize these functions.
These changes will rollout in preview on Windows 11 in the Insider Beta Channel in the coming weeks, and will become generally available early next year.
The EEA is an economic and political union that spans 27 countries in the European and surrounding area.
In the case of Microsoft, this means not forcing users to use Edge or Bing, and ensuring the OS is interoperable with other services where necessary.
The original article contains 488 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is cool and all, but why do we always stop at Microsoft? I think it would be more impactful in 2023 if we can uninstall Safari from iOS devices and Chrome from Android?
Uninstall Bing? When did Bing become an installable thing?
They probably mean your browser/search engine settings will actually be respected, instead of what sometimes happens now where you can have set everything to not use bing or edge but still certain MS software will launch a search in edge, using bing.
Wow, that's a hellscape straight out of 2008.
It's probably not about that, but Bing is actually integrated in the start/search menu by default.
This is the first time I saw a post get over 1000 upvotes in 15 hours.
RCS and this? Seems hell has indeed frozen over in the tech world today.
What's the rcs thing? Is Apple finally going to adopt it?
Yep, they said a software update is coming next year.
Probably part of their legal appeal to get themselves removed from the Digital Services Act... something they're a niche player in the messaging services industry... Never mind the fact iMessage has billions of users sending a quarter million messages per second.
Didn’t we do this already back in the 90s with IE bundling??
So it won't force Secure boot anymore?
LOL
that's for locking out Linux,
Bless the EU
It does specify the European economic area for (EEA) for these changes. Looks like I'm living in Europe ;)
Get ready for that sweet € symbol everywhere. I live in Brexitland so I can sort of get by with Ireland as a region, but it’s not great if you’re wishing to see your own decimal separators etc.
I'm a bit surprised, this time it took them so long I thought they stopped about even pretending.
What happened with RCS?
I wonder if this affects any of the telemetry systems they use to send user data back to the mothership (Microsoft servers)? I haven't looked into it in a while but there used to be a powershell script to disable a lot of it in the registry.
I wonder whether Microsoft makes enough money on analytics and ads worldwide, minus Europe, to split off a separate dev team. I hope not, but I think they do… Please choose the easier, objectively better option and just make these a checkbox for everyone, windows.
I wish Apple would let me uninstall Apple Music and stop media keys opening it by default.
I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I've seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I'm glad that we do it, but i wouldn't say we are better than anyone else.
Thanks for the honest take, a lot of people get caught up in the idea that if an organization does something that aligns with them, they are good or doing it for the same reasons.
There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.
They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.
I mean we have SAP but they are probably not affected by this law.
SAP
All my homies hate SAP
Nah, it still would be much harder.
Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.
To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.
Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic "it's for the children's safety" lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it's mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it's really only the Commission who doesn't want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
America is getting paid to do it.
Maybe the FCC is still resisting for now.
Did you mean FTC?
Not sure anymore. Maybe both I guess
That's what I was talking about: https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/15/23962881/fcc-anti-digital-discrimination-pass
California is doing okay, all things considered
I wonder if Windows in Non-EU areas does not have this kind of choice.
Well, does not matter, I use Linux, too.
America empowers these bozos
I'm one illness or accident from being financially ruined, what do you really expect me to do about it?
Start a revolution.
ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
Well they'll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.
That is easy enough to block or deal with.
At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.
I can't wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.
Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can't access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there's that.
I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?
I vote for angry mob with convenient access to an active volcano.
Who needs a volcano when woodchippers can park right in your driveway.
Remember to load them feet first kids!
*jots down 'load kids feet first into chipper'
Wait, is Microsoft violating child labor laws, too!?
Well, your heart's in the right place.
And apparently the kids feet are in the right place too!
Same way laws are enforced now? Each country passing it and the companies needing to comply to continue operations.
Why are they force to comply right now if the laws don’t work?
If I have to keep a chromium browser around, in addition to Firefox, I'd rather edge than mainline Chrome.
For me i went with DuckDuckGo + Firefox
95℅ of the time on Firefox and DDG is just for YouTube ( even in it's current Beta state it can bypass YouTube's anti adblocker )
Edge is just too problematic, Microsoft opened up Dark patterns 1.0.1 and forked Chromium and voila >> NSA certified browser
That's a false dichotomy. There's no shortage of Chromium browsers that are significantly better than both.
Why yes Microsoft, I am totally a European in Europe right now...
VPN to Sweden, update Windows to the EEA version, profit?
I'm not holding my breath, but we can hope.
It 's wild to think that some people might VPN to the EU for basic rights.
Freedom!
You wouldn't pirate basic human rights, would you?
People do that China 🤷♂️
Coming to a Western country soon near you!
Välkommen!
Bless you.
Hey, 'Muricans, how come we need to pressure every company into compliance for you?
Do you really think any average citizen has any say in this whatsoever?
Yes. You're a democracy, right? Right?
On paper yes. In reality...
Isn’t that the point of your guns? Why are all these less free states more free?
Nah, those are just so we can shoot nonwhite people and say we thought they had a gun
An electoral democracy, we choose those that make the laws. Due to the 2 party system we don't have many options for when they fail to do what they claim they will.
Great America, land of the free
Free to be shot at and advertised to
Obviously since it's happening for us Europeans
See: Regulatory Capture
Sorry, our country is currently on fire 😕
For $100,000 the US Congress will tell you!
Nah. Those corps will still do it at home or sell it as PR at home.
Thank you Europe. Once again you prove yourself to be what we all aspire to be.
It's a shame that this is only for users in the EEA though, I understand why they didn't make it a blanket change, but we can dream
Hey, I'll change to use the N version of windows if it'll get me this feature. Forced software on your devices is something I loathe.
You probably just have to change your region to any EEA country, such as Ireland.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don't need to worry about it personally doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about how it affects others.
We're basically dependent on the EU and California to have any rights as consumers at all.
That's pretty crazy when I think about it. And I'm from within the EU.
Don't forget California's emissions standards effectively forcing car manufacturers to make more efficient vehicles for the entire NA market!
So apparently having consumer-friendly laws does in fact lead to better products. Cool.
Perhaps the USA and other countries should follow the EU's good example on this.
But socialism! They're all gonna be starving and homeless! Any day now...
(they're starving and homeless under capitalism)
must be evil socialisms fault /s
Omg, I can't believe this is happening !!
Today when I updated Windows11, I got copilot and we were discussing how it's unacceptable to not let me uninstall Microsoft Edge, well I was, Copilot was just chilling it, but it did agree eventually
But this is only happening in Europe, which means Microsoft didn't suddenly turn pure hearted, it's just the law forcing them into it ....
Yeah this isn't as good as it sounds, the other 5 continents are still stuck with all of this garbage.
If they don't make it international, they're asking for piracy
They’ll just enable/disable features based on geolocation. I doubt it’ll be a whole different version like in the good old days.
If that's the case then a determined user could enable these hidden features via Powershell, only time will tell
Skill issue, what's stopping other countries from creating better laws?
The problem is that showing enough politicians money effectively makes you become the government. There's minimal chance of a law being introduced unless a rich person or corporation backs it, and EU laws would interfere with their shady business practices.
Not big enough to force companies to make large changes. The US is, China and India are. But what about Australia or New Zealand? Or any of the individual south american countries? Too many changes, microsoft or one of the other big players will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
If they already have a version compatible with EU law, they will just roll it out instead of removing an entire country from their market.
Would be a bad business move otherwise.
Of course, only if the laws don't force even more restrictions.
Valve only started doing 2-hour refunds after Australia twisted their arm about it. They brought it to the world, and it became an incredible selling point. Perhaps this will be the same thing.
Valve is a lot more consumer friendly to begin with, though. Don't get me wrong, they did heaps of bad things too, but compared to Microsoft?
I'm not gonna hold my breath on this one
Thank god for Europe!
god has nothing to do with it
You know what I mean. Sheesh.
Thank our lizard Queen in heaven.
In this moment, you are euphoric.
Yeah turns out businesses behave when you legislate their misdeeds instead of just calling them job creators
Now there will be two versions of Windows. One that adheres to EU regulation, and another that's filled with ads for everyone else.
Windows 12 Euro Trash Edition and Windows 12 Red Blooded God Anointed American Edition. If either crosses the EU boarder the computer will explode killing everyone in a 10 meter radius.
I feel like that might also violate some regulations
regulations that stifle innovation baby 😎
Yes, American munitions export controls
There sort of already is https://www.howtogeek.com/322112/what-is-an-n-or-kn-edition-of-windows/
It’ll be one version, they’ll just force certain “features” on you based on the region you’re in as determined by your system time, GPS location, or IP address
They say if you don't pay, you're the product, but that's obviously bullshit, paying solves nothing. The saying should be never trust corporations.
If you don't pay, you are the product. If you pay, you are the product + you are paying.
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that's the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
Exactly. All the latest chaos that Microsoft does, you know you'll be immune and your desktop will be the same for as long as you get bored of it lol.
My laptop gets the fun experiments, my desktop plays the games
Same except in reverse lol. My laptop is out of date fedora because I'm lazy to update since it's a youtube/twitch machine pretty much. My desktop gets the bleeding edge + games.
I may have lost my sound card drivers, but at least I've not got to put up with windows (don't worry I've got an external soundcard)!
I'm team Linux as well
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can't get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it's almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect. My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
I'll check this out ty
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven't found anything that doesn't work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Regulation works.
Once steam covers 90% of games windows becomes irrelevant.
So what you’re saying is, 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop?
I know that phrase is the most beaten dead horse around at this point but the year of the Linux desktop is going to be different depending on what your requirements are.
If you just need to browse the web, it's been there for over a decade. Same for most dev work.
For gaming, it's already there for most titles. Pretty much everything I try works now unless it has anticheat. It's been in a pretty good state for 2 or 3 years now at least.
For media creation and specialized software, it's not there yet. The big stuff like adobe will probably never get ported and the free alternatives vary wildly in quality. Blender is awesome. GIMP is not. There's also issues like lacking color management and iffy HDR support.
I do wonder about that, Gen Z and Alpha are less tech savvy than millennials, so there's non zero odds that it doesn't work out because Linux isn't easily accessible in the tablet/phone space yet.
And no android doesn't count
I think we need rock-solid Wayland before we can expect TYLD. So I'm feeling 2026 minimum, then add a couple for some padding; so 2028 realistically. Think of how far we've come in 5 years, then imagine 5 years more.
If Nvidia's consumer GPU market share dropped a bit too, that'd help.
Why do you think that Wayland is necessary for adoption? In my opinion it is the missing hardware drivers, compatability issues and "getting your hands dirty" while constantly tweaking stuff. Yeah it got better over the years, but most people want things to just work.
it already is irrelevant for many people
As long as many important games fall into that 10% many gamers won't consider Linux.
Not to mention Adobe/Office/CAD suites that will prevent others from switching.
And finally most pcs are sold with windows preinstalled and the vast majority of people don't even know that other OS even exist.
Does Linux let you disable its system-embedded advertisements? Didn't think so!
I just wish it would stop showing me ads for Linus' Only Fans. Like, I already subbed, please go away.
It does.
sudo pro config set apt_news=falseandsudo truncate -s0 /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20apt-esm-hook.confBut I feel sorry for you if you are still using Ubuntu at this point.
Which flavor?
Only in EU/EEA countries. So us here in
GileadAmerica are SOL at the momentIt's because of this that I stopped using windows. Now that steam allows Linux gaming I have no need to revert to that os.
Are multiplayer titles with anti cheat (Call of Duty, Valorant, etc) able to be played yet? It's the only thing holding me back.
No
At last. This is actually good news for Windows itself because people will be more inclined to use it again if they don't see ads, aren't tracked, can set any default browser etc.
So it's good for both users and Microsoft.
Sometimes these corporations just can't help themselves by adding trash and they need a mommy figure to force them to stop doing that which ultimately benefits themselves.
Thing is for me windows opened a pandora's box that goes further than just ad-free, once I started getting into open software thanks to switching to linux, I realized it's not just the them saying there's no tracking, it's the being able to see it for yourself, it's the there being a 1000 eyes on a project that don't have a motivation to lie to you, checking making sure that there are no trackers.
It's no longer just sbout them saying "it's all good we ain't spying" it's about a project with a thousand eyes on them making sure this is actually the case, plus the nature of most open licenses where every fork also needs to follow such license.
It's starting to become a sort of change in how I see society working with each other and I whish there were other aspects of life where such a philosophy vould be applied.
Agree 100%. Free Software user here. Linux Mint Debian Edition is what I'm running.
I wish all software and hardware abided by the FOSS principles
FUCK YEAH! EAT SHIT MICROSOFT!
I mean...I still would've blocked the ads no matter what. I paid for my computer it's mine and I should be allowed to control it.
I’m genuinely worried if hell is okay, are you guys getting a tad chilly?
We've somehow managed to create reverse climate change in the unholy fires themselves
Next up to freeze: Google's unholy war on ad-blockers. A decisive blow to that would make this a holy trilogy 😄
IT Sysadmin from the non-profit circle checking in. It's actually unseasonably warm right now.
I can't speak for the pharmaceutical IT, Medical IT, metal fabrication IT, bakery IT, education IT, or embedded systems IT circles, though. Might be getting nippy over thereabouts.
Based EU.
I'm moving to the EU.
With your username, you'd do great in the Netherlands
I'm considering going to Flanders instead. I actually made my username like that on purpose.
I don't think people will like me based on my ethnic background alone, though.
What's your ethnic background? Kardashian?
Hell has truly frozen over. I guarantee that uninstalling edge will break something else in Windows
It does.
It breaks URLs/URIs in OneNote. Its fixable, so it's clearly the fault of the uninstaller.
The reg key for the default html handler is wiped.
It won't. System components / apps use the edge webview 2 runtime that is a separate component from the Edge browser itself.
EU to the rescue once again.
How do they verify that I'm in the EEA? Do I need to sign up through a VPN when I register Windows or do I just specify an EEA country during the install?
Does this also mean Google will let me uninstall Chrome from my Android device? Or is this only about PC's?
I hope we will get there too. Be able to fully install and uninstall Google services.
I hope the ability to install whatever OS on your phone that you want will become mandated and the default for all cell phones.
Even if this was allowed. Surely most apps wont run anymore in the name of security
Not really, most OS for phones are android based anyway. Having the choice of an ungoogled android is always a plus, much like many people just want an ungoogled chrome
You can already do that if you buy a phone that is compatible with LineageOS or other open source ROMs.
I think their point was that all manufacturers should be forced to allow that
That's already possible either by using a custom ROM or by connecting to a PC and using adb.
Chrome browser? I could uninstall that right away.
As a Linux user, this is freaking funny.
is EU based or something
Uh... Yes. Yes we are.
It seems in some cases when it comes to protecting you from industry practices can only be handled by government agencies.
You should still switch to Linux.
I will do whatever it takes for my non-European windows install to behave like a European windows install.
If I got rid of ads on windows if be much happier with the OS and would not have such a grudge against using it.
I can’t wait until benchmarks are run on the two versions side by side to see if it impacts battery life and or performance.
Wait, what's the RCS news you're referring to OP?
Apple announced RCS support is coming
Expardon me?!
https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/
Checkmate! This is great news 😁
But will they let you disable tracking and telemetry?
You wanna guess?
I already know the answer. Windows isn’t the product. We’re the product.
I live in the UK, and because of Brexit we won't get this. Thanks Nigel Farage.
I expect that it's because we're not in the EU that measures like this can be passed there. Maybe in 10-20 years time we can rejoin an EU massively improved by our absence.
I read elsewhere that this good news only benefits EU users of Windows 11.
VPN go brrrr. Now you're an EU user.
As far as i understand it it doesn't even check your location. It checks the Language & Region in your initial Pc Setup steps. So you have to reset your pc to do that... Until someone figures an alternativ way without resetting your pc i guess.
Why would you need to reset your PC to change your region?
You can just go to region and language settings and do it there.
Microsoft needs to comply even if the laptop was originally bought outside the EU.
At least in the past this sort of thing has sometimes made it into Group Policy settings that can be set if you use the Pro version of Windows, but more and more of that is locked down.
A bunch of privacy related settings for Edge can only be set if you're running the Education version of Windows. On Pro/Enterprise the options are available but won't work. Microsoft is determined to make it impossible to run Windows without allowing them to do whatever they want with your data.
How do I trick my computer into thinking I'm in Europe?
Better yet, trick your local legislator to get equivalent regulations implemented.
Sign up for this video's sponsor, NordVPN
This is Microsoft... What's the catch?
I think it only applies to Europe
Most likely, they have "N" versions for some time for EU regulated countries
https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-10/what-are-windows-10-n-and-kn-editions
Ya, then just install the N version. It's not some weird region locked thing. If you tell Microsoft you don't have a product key, you'll get a list of windows versions you can install, and you just select the N version.
I wonder if this also applies to allow uninstalling Safari browser on MacOS, and allow other browser engines into iOS devices instead of WebKit Safari clones.
Yeah! How about allowing uninstallation of Chrome from Android?!
I would be so happy if they just let browser extensions work on 3rd party browsers. They already force them to use WebKit. Why are the extensions not working?
I'm desperately waiting for a reputed company like Samsung to ditch windows and introduce linux pre-installed laptops
Samsung a reputed company? The Samsung of the ad-ridden smart TVs?
System 76
There was a brief moment in the 2000s where major manufacturers were selling computers with Linux preinstalled. A lot of netbooks and thin clients had Ubuntu as an option.
Doesn't Samsung have nutty bloatware too?
Simply having the option is a good start, but a lot of people would buy those and ask "a friend" to install windows instead. I've seen that happen quite often in the early 2010s
Like Dell?
Dell's Linux support is laughable. I have the distinct displeasure of dealing with their shit quality right now. Camera doesn't work, fans spin up for no reason, graphics card stutters / sometimes there's no hardware acceleration... Actual linux shops like system76, purism, tuxedocomputers, slimbook, and other better hardware, better pricing, and better hardware support.
Dell, Fujitsu, HP, etc. are OK as Linux hardware providers, but it's clear that their main business is till WIndows.
The sad thing is that this happens because someone forces them to comply and not out of principle.
Why would they though and out of which which principle? Microsoft's principle is "generate as much profit as possible without antagonizing customers to much". Microsoft is, at its core, a profit driven business and not a business driven by ethics.
So... It's a business
Brussels Effect at work again.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Microsoft has published a new blog post which details how Windows 11 will be made compliant with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) in the European Economic Area (EEA.)
To be compliant, Microsoft has made several changes to the OS, which now allows users to choose between providers and uninstall most in-box apps.
The company describes these changes as specific to Windows 11 PCs in the EEA, so it's unclear if users outside this area will be able to utilize these functions.
These changes will rollout in preview on Windows 11 in the Insider Beta Channel in the coming weeks, and will become generally available early next year.
The EEA is an economic and political union that spans 27 countries in the European and surrounding area.
In the case of Microsoft, this means not forcing users to use Edge or Bing, and ensuring the OS is interoperable with other services where necessary.
The original article contains 488 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
All for a $12 a month subscription!
Will they?
Or will you just be able to hide them?
This is cool and all, but why do we always stop at Microsoft? I think it would be more impactful in 2023 if we can uninstall Safari from iOS devices and Chrome from Android?
Wait what happened with RCS?
It is coming to iOS “next year”
Well that's unexpected
Maybe Apple is learning to implement things themselves before regulators force them to.
Uninstall Bing? When did Bing become an installable thing?
They probably mean your browser/search engine settings will actually be respected, instead of what sometimes happens now where you can have set everything to not use bing or edge but still certain MS software will launch a search in edge, using bing.
Wow, that's a hellscape straight out of 2008.
It's probably not about that, but Bing is actually integrated in the start/search menu by default.
This is the first time I saw a post get over 1000 upvotes in 15 hours.
RCS and this? Seems hell has indeed frozen over in the tech world today.
What's the rcs thing? Is Apple finally going to adopt it?
Yep, they said a software update is coming next year.
Probably part of their legal appeal to get themselves removed from the Digital Services Act... something they're a niche player in the messaging services industry... Never mind the fact iMessage has billions of users sending a quarter million messages per second.
Hey yeah. Funny how I learned about this on a thread about Windows, but whatever!
What happens if you uninstall edge and you don't have any other browsers?
How do you reinstall it or install a different one without a secondary computer?
I imagine you can install it through the Microsoft Store or via the add/remove Windows features function
Back in my days we had windows versions that didn't come with ethernet driver
USB stick with a browser installer or a portable installation.
Windows will probably gladly reinstall Edge via some update service.
I remember installing Netscape Navigator and Mozilla like this across some years. But it was CD-Rs.
Download file from another system.
Use wget in powershell to download it in same system.
Use winget to install browser.
wsl --installsudo apt updatesudo apt install firefox -yYou can use winget via powershell winget install firefox
Or you use the Microsoft store to install another browser
curl
into a ball and cry?
From shell
For example
Didn’t we do this already back in the 90s with IE bundling??
So it won't force Secure boot anymore?
LOL
that's for locking out Linux,
Bless the EU
It does specify the European economic area for (EEA) for these changes. Looks like I'm living in Europe ;)
Get ready for that sweet € symbol everywhere. I live in Brexitland so I can sort of get by with Ireland as a region, but it’s not great if you’re wishing to see your own decimal separators etc.
Wow, are we getting Windows N again?
...what happened? Did someone in upper management realize, it would be more expensive to suck?
No, it's because it the EU
Only in the EU right? Also what's up with RCS?
Time for everyone to tell Microsoft we live in France!
What about RCS?
I might upgrade now from 10. Imagine giving what consumers want.
Imagine being forced to give what consumers want due to European legislation.
I'm a bit surprised, this time it took them so long I thought they stopped about even pretending.
What happened with RCS?
I wonder if this affects any of the telemetry systems they use to send user data back to the mothership (Microsoft servers)? I haven't looked into it in a while but there used to be a powershell script to disable a lot of it in the registry.
I wonder whether Microsoft makes enough money on analytics and ads worldwide, minus Europe, to split off a separate dev team. I hope not, but I think they do… Please choose the easier, objectively better option and just make these a checkbox for everyone, windows.
I wish Apple would let me uninstall Apple Music and stop media keys opening it by default.
This sounds to good to be true.. What's the catch? A monthly subscription??
Just in time for Windows 10 going out of support. I guess the next time Windows nags my wife about updating to 11 I can tell her to go ahead.
I always hear people complaining about ads on their win 11 and it confuses me, as I've never seen a single ad in my win 11 install.
In what section are the ads showing up?
On the widgets board and the news app. It's shown up in occasional other locations
Huh, so not in Switzerland?
damn, Europe is wild!