But everything changed when the file nation attacked
And although his coding skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he deploys anything to production.
Thats rough, buddy.
My first coding project got axed.
What? Everyone else went on a code learning field trip with Zuko. Now it’s my turn.
Secret tunnel! Through the firewall!
Codesmith
Filerunner
Bugbreaker
Diskbringer
Clouddancer
Docwatcher
Screenweaver
IfElsecaller
'netward
Codesmith
The orders of the Devs Radiant must stand again
Technomancer
this is basically the 2000s "Code Ninja Wizard Monkey Robot" all over again.
spork!
Not engineer.
At least here in Germany, engineer is a protected profession. Other than that: All of the above.
Interesting. In the US, all kinds of jobs are called engineers
Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician.. etc were all engineers. In Germany it's as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command
I mean, it's a protected term in Canada too but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher salaries.
My cousin who's an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.
I left aeronautical engineering to become a software "engineer" for similar reasons, salary and work culture. Actual engineering pays quite terribly in the UK, it's a fair bit better in Germany or the US from what I hear.
It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying "doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment". So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say 'senators' or something). Extremely class divided social society that.
Damn I’m surprised to hear that!
TBF some plumbers and electricians are qualified engineers, just not all.
Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the "software engineer" or more accurately "robotics engineer" badge.
If you studied a technical science and do coding for that you may be allowed to be called ingenieur.
How come they don't count? They're figuring out how the machines should work, for money. That's engineering, right? (I'm an American mechanical engineer)
In Canada you have to be qualified and licensed to call yourself an engineer. There are people who can use the title "software engineer", but it's not the majority of people working in development.
Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.
That is not entirely true. It's a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it's more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is "mainly" of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it's more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.
They have to protect German engineering at all costs
Here in portugal too. But there is a specific engineering field which is informatic engineering? Software engineer essentially
It is in Canada too but that doesn't seem to stop companies from using the term
I'm in tech and "computer programmer" has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as "the Nintendo" or "the game station".
Has there been a programmer for anything other than a computer
angry domino logic programmer noises
Do you program domino logic on a electric board or on a computer?
Yes. And, by the way, "computer" was once the name of a profession, carried out by people.
Television programming? It’s a stretch, one might say a broad-casting of the term.
I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).
That was the first time someone didn't understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.
That's funny, plain "programmer" would be my preferred term if it weren't for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I've landed on "software engineer" because that's what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.
I was hired with the official title "software engineer," then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a "SE/DE" (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to "data engineer". My job functions have not changed the entire time I've been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there's not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.
Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn't even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.
I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because "It sounds better." I'd have to say I agree!
Here in Canada you can't call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves "developer". When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.
Viewport engineer.
Browser-space technician.
Microsoft painter-decorator.
Inferior decorator.
He-who-responds (on the bugs channel).
Scope denier.
Manager disappointer.
inferior decorator
This one is going in my dad joke arsenal. Thank you
Electron herder
I am the worst kind of programmer, I'm a Scope Inflator.
H.
Code monkey
Code monkey like Cheetos.
Code monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew.
Great song and free as in freedom.
Good show
Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone's title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is....
I'm more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)... And even looking for a job for myself, it's a nightmare... Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a "remote support technician", by their definition, this was "remote" as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don't even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were "remote" aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a "technician".
It's bullshit all the way down.
When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had "only" applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn't bother replying but I couldn't help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was "CCNA" (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up.... Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.
This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There's too many "admin" related jobs.... "Support"? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.
That's not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that's extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn't very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don't have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app... I know that because I've applied to such positions and didn't even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.
Which takes me to another point, you don't get rejected. You get ghosted. They don't want you? Fine, tell me that. You don't even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I'm going to keep trying no matter what, but still...
The whole job market is a hellscape.
Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don't mean shit outside of your specific workplace. "Lead customer success technician" ... Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other "technical" things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they're just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don't play the game, your left behind.
I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It's all word salad and I hate it.
We are all SEO Engineers on this cursed day.
Oh my god.
The reality is also, that development is so extremely diverse, that it's hard to find umbrella-enough terms to describe a job.
For example, I'm a senior software developer on paper.
I'm not senior, not even 10 years job experience. But I seem to be rather good at what I'm doing, so I'm a senior now.
I'm also hardly writing any code. I talk to customers about what they want their software to do, I talk to management about how many people I need, I review pull requests, I talk to junior devs about their problems, etc, etc. Maybe 10% of my time is actual code. But what title other than "developer" should I have?
Manager
A few more titles that you will hate, but actually describe your role. You are in no sense just a senior developer.
You are an
Architect
Solution Architect
Project Manager and Team Leader
Service Manager
Which one fits best, you have to decide. But i would put this up on my resume if i had your responsibilities.
Yeah, I struggle with that.
I’m not allowed to be called an Architect because the Lead Architect only allows product people in the role, however I’m equivalent rank.
I spend way too much time doing project management, but I despise that
I don’t lead a specific team or have people but I set requirements for engineering and sometime borrow people from teams
I’m in the Quality Engineering organization but don’t do QA
some people think I’m a Build Engineer, and I do set some of their requirements
some think I’m AppSec, and I do try to fill their gaps and apply their work to the organization.
Recently, maybe DevSecOps sounds most accurate, and I avoid talking rank so I don’t piss off that Prima Donna
Maybe "software producer"? (a term I've never seen used anywhere but that sort of makes sense when you think about what a movie producer does, for example)
In my career i have gone from Systems Engineer to professional services to Profesional services team lead to Senior Systems administrator to now just Systems administrator. All doing basically the same IT stuff at progressively higher levels other than the team lead part.
When i was looking for my last job i applied for a remote admin job and experienced exactly what you described. I was on the third interview and was asked when i was going to move to the area and if i wanted a relocation allowance as part of the offer. Uhh what? To them a remote admin was an administrator that went to remote sites. What a waste of my time
"Job titles are actually a fluid concept - why feel a strong need to label everything?" :-D
My job title has changed 5x more than my actual job. I honestly don't even know what my current title is.
I wonder how many man-hours (and at what average salary) has been spent deciding on title changes that have literally zero impact at my company. I'm sure every change involves meetings full of highly-paid executives.
"I (want to keep my job and therefore I) AGREE WITH YOU 100%"
They collect the big bucks, the rest of us can suck dirt - barely not able to afford a home, food, medical care, etc. Oh wait, sorry, I meant "YES SIR/MAM!"
Tech-priest.
Magos.
O, si es necesario, El Señor Arch-Magos.
Todos alaban al Santo Omnissiah, y así sucesivamente.
Thought I'd be super clever haha. Take my upvote instead
I'm a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I'm also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).
sounds like a cool job y'all hiring haha jk unless
Not on my team, unfortunately but, I'll check. What languages/experience have you got?
Oh man, I didn't think that'd work haha... Kind of you to offer but I was recently promoted and wouldn't feel right leaving now. Partially out of respect for my boss and partially because we are severely understaffed. But seriously, thanks for offering to ask around. Very generous of you to offer your help to a stranger ❤️
since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon
Sorry to hear that. I hit the same pothole about 6 months ago. I had been so fine with avoiding JS, but the guys building our admin console broke their build and couldn’t figure out how to fix it. Even worse, then I had to write up best practices for JS
Yeah. Fortunately, I didn't have to do the programming. Unfortunately, I had to guide the debug. Happy to help people learn but the language, especially in its typing, is just awful.
I'm learning that I'm just enough of a front end dev to make a very ugly site. Navigating all the various CSS and JS frameworks feels like pulling teeth.
Having a familiarity is absolutely a great thing. The syntax isn't alien, so, debug and guiding juniors through figuring out why their project isn't working isn't too terrible. The typing is probably what drives me crazy the most. It's just bad and the standard library doesn't seem to be equipped to handle every type that it can "support" cleanly.
I don't know where "software engineer" started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don't have to do. I've always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.
Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn't gatekeep words.
With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.
certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.
How long until they realize software engineering has overlap with public safety too?
Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people's personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.
I like the title only because I got a degree in computer engineering and passed the fundamentals of electrical engineering exam. I definitely don't do any engineering but it makes me feel like my degree wasn't a waste.
Edit: also that was an 8 hour test that I really took for no reason.
Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.
You have to do that to be a "Chartered Engineer", "Professional Engineer" etc. Some states require you to have some kind of registration to practice in some roles.
"Engineer" remains an unprotected term in all states and territories as far as I know but I could be wrong. It's definitely unprotected federally.
Funny because HR doesn't know either and its their job. In the US, you just need to slap engineer at the end and you are golden.
I'm a Senior Computer Software Developer Programming Engineer, or SCSDPE (which is pronounced Skuzz-Deep), and I will be irreparably miffed if you get it wrong.
For your convenience, I also accept "that guy that sits weirdly close to the water fountain", "hey", and "paid keyboard user".
This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I've talked to about the subject.
Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.
Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.
When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I'm referring more to the role that you're fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.
We usually accept any of the terms though because it's very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.
TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.
Whats it called when you know how to code, but you're shit at it, but you're still in charge of several much more experienced developers?
CTO ;)
Nice! I think I should ask for a raise.
Hell yeah you should
In my experience all terms are used pretty interchangeably (well, rarely programmer or coder, I guess), though I prefer software engineer.
I also prefer engineer but that's mostly just due to the complexity of my current role vs my old one.
I have the words "software engineer" in my job title but I hate it.
We aren't engineers, we're a bunch of undisciplined hackers, engineers have standards and ethics.
Programmer is my preferred term, or software developer.
Code monkey is also acceptable.
Depends. I've studied for my engineering title, I have standards and ethics. Requirements, specification, design, architecture, programming, testing, integration, delivery, everything is part of my job. If you are a programmer, you only do programming.
But then it all circles back around. I have advanced degrees in (non software) engineering from actual top tier engineering schools and I should not be trusted to write production code. That's what software engineers are for.
I disagree with that. I mean, I don't know how good you are at writing software, so maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near production code. But, just because code is "production" doesn't mean it should exclusively be the domain of people who are "software engineers".
In my mind, software engineering involves implementing new algorithms that are from a computer science paper you just read, or architecting a big and complex system. Or, if there are lives on the line. I'd want people writing code for a new Space Shuttle to think of themselves as engineers, not just code monkeys.
But, a self-taught developer is fine to update production code for a web app as long as they write the correct tests and get it peer reviewed.
I prefer Software Engineer, mostly because I studied at an engineering school and have a degree in Software Engineering. My actual titles have varied throughout my career, but I overall consider myself a software engineer.
Same. My current role is most accurately DeOps or DevSecOps - my education actually predates “Software Engineer” but it was a Software degree from an Engineering school, and with a more technical focus than the similar degree from Arts and Sciences. But yes, every time I due process improvement, standards and practices, etc, that makes it “Software Engineer”. And every time I have to explain to developers how their stuff works, yes, I’m “The Engineer”, capitalized
I'm curious if you've looked up whether you're allowed to call yourself an engineer in some states (US centric of course)? I read years ago that some states really frown on calling yourself an engineer if you aren't a certain small range of engineers that they have codified (pun intended) in law.
I think that's only a civil engineering thing.
Source: work in the industry, and "Civil Engineer" and "Professional Engineer" are legally protected titles. Other than that, it's fair game. Like, there are "Design Engineers" in the civil sector that don't have their Professional Engineer certification.
Code money get up get coffee, code monkey go to job.
h a c k e r
1337 H4x0r
"Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" -Shodan
I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client
At our company, the person who specializes in that is dubbed Software Architect. Every dev is expected to uphold those values to a certain degree.
Space wizard will do thanks
I've set my role on my company's slack profile as "code connoisseur"
My boss once referred to me as “code bastard”. I’m keeping it.
Scrum Lord has a air of royalty to it aswel
Ummm, keyboard jockey??? Code monkey??? can we get some respect here?
Code slanger. Code wrangler. Software person.
A load of the devs at my original dotnet shop are still there, but are now called stuff like “Vice President Regional Director Lord Protector Master Technical Architect”. I suspect they’re all still writing VB.
I have rotated between countless titles over several decades. What I do hasn't really changed. Currently I'm not even aware what my official title is and when someone asks I usually say something along the lines of I make IT go but in my native language.
You may call me Computer God. Or God for short if i deem it acceptable.
I'm only human, though I am working on that...
"resource"
Button pusher
"Software craftsman"
Code Artisan
Bitsmith
codesmith
If they have a degree in engineering, then they are an engineer.
Yeah, it’s weird to me as an engineer that when I’m on Lemmy people use that word to mean programmer. Nah, I work in a factory and had to learn thermodynamics
In my mind, the line is that an engineer is someone that can commit a crime by doing their job incompetently. If the only things at risk are your job and your pride, that's a different thing.
"I program all day, so there's a lot of trial and error. My friend is a negligent civil engineer, so there's a lot of error and trial."
Ooh the EEs will haaaaaate that lol. I generally disagree with that statement but I also totally see it.
If you're an electrical engineer who works in a nuclear power plant and your incompetence leads to a meltdown, you're going to go on trial. Possibly also if you're doing software engineering for the control systems of that power plant.
If you're a software engineer who works on Lemmy, not so much.
Same here in Quebec (but I don't know if it's a Canada thing), the title of engineer is reserved to folks who completed an engineering degree.
It’s always been weird to me as someone who isn’t an engineer in degree or title why those with degrees in engineering think people shouldn’t use an accurately descriptive word like engineer when it’s perfectly appropriate just because it’s a little to close to the title of their licensed profession.
Engineer is a verb, to devise or contrive something. Simply, to design a construct. A programmer by definition engineers a program and is therefore by the rules of the English language, an engineer.
They may not be a Licensed Professional Engineer, but an Engineer they remain.
What if you have a degree in engineering but you are a surgeon?
Do you.... do you do rocket surgery?
I'd assume you would also have a degree in surgery
I usually say "I'm a computer toucher" or "computer programmer" if I don't want to talk about what I do. If I want to flex some nerd cred, and/or boast a little, I'll usually say "I work with machine automation" or "robotics". It tends to get a more curious response and I can talk about some of the weird stuff I've helped make.
I usually say "I'm a computer toucher"
That sounds kinky
My parents say I "do computers" and that's good enough for me.
My wife says either I'm in IT or I work with computers.
I just say problem solver.
CopyPaster
I would prefer that I was not referred to at all. Especially if you are a PM.
I like Computer Programmer. No mistaking it. Developers are people who organise houses to be built. Engineers work on trains. Coders encrypt data. No matter what nonsense word salad it says on my email signature, when I'm at a barbecue I say I'm a computer programmer.
When I'm in a particularly jaunty mood, I go with "software artist".
Software artist reminds me of the sandwich artists at subway.
So you're the guy who organises the computer literacy programmes in schools?
I know a guy who just says he stacks shelves at Tesco as he cannot be bothred to explain 😂
I used to work for Cisco (the huge router etc. company) but my mom thought I was working for Sysco (the food services supply company). She was very surprised to learn that I had anything at all to do with computers.
This is the correct answer, it includes everything a full stack dev might do
I like to call myself a codemonkey
Do you like Tab and Mountain Dew?
I have always considered myself an engineer because I’m part of a multidisciplinary engineering organization designing a physical product that has embedded software. And “engineer” is the word at the end of my degrees, I guess.
But if somebody called me by any of those terms in the OP I would answer. And if somebody who works on an app or a video game calls themselves an engineer, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.
My only conclusion is that we here, who spend our days specifying exactly what we want computers to do, are not so great specifying ourselves exactly.
I only want to be called darling. Or a filthy worm, depending on the situation
Filthy darling
If you push tickets - software developer at best.
If you iteratively solve problems by learning, building models, and trying hard to break said models until a sufficiently robust one remains - welcome to engineering.
When people ask me what I do for a living I tell them that I furiously bang on a keyboard until the computer does what I want.
Idc, just please don't call me a coder, it makes me sound like I'm a script kiddy.
The Plague.
Uh... Mr. The Plague... Uh. Something weird is happening on the net....
It’s funny when I’m looking for work and people try to help me find jobs. I’ve been sent jobs for “coder” which turned out to be “medical code entry into EPIC” and architect because they saw another job with “software architect”.
The Intergalactic Ninja Sultan of Revenue Development
It depends who I'm talking to and where I live. Where I live, engineer is a protected title and requires certification/etc so that takes it out of the race. That leaves the other options. Generally I am a Web Developer to people my age or younger, to people older than me I am usually a Computer Programmer but also sometimes a Developer or Software Developer instead. Realistically, I am a Full Stack Website Developer.
Referring to my job doesn't get any easier even as someone in tech.
Lives ARE on the line. It was faulty software that caused the Boeing 737 Max to crash twice, killing 346 people. Software runs your car, the trains, rockets, literally everything.
Remember when they tried to make ninja, Rockstar, and guru a thing?
Microsoft still uses those phrases un-ironically all the time.
Ow God I just cringed so hard I partly digested my skin. All those wacky Microsoft conferences. I've never felt so infantalised.
At some jobs, I can get away with "Señor Developer" or "Computer Toucher". Those are the nice ones.
Otherwise it tends to be "Senior Software Engineer" that carries the least constricting baggage.
I SWEAR big company middle managers hear "developer" and they can only ever see you as an infant who without guidance would just keep coding some absolute random shit and not think about product, market, customers, integration, or prioritize their own work.
I'm technically an aerospace engineer, but all I do is code most days. I think it depends highly on what you do, since my job also involves doing things not strictly coding related as well, I always slap the engineer title next to it. If you only code, then it's more appropriate to say software dev, or programmer. But, again its highly dependent on your role.
And as other people have mentioned, seems like outside the U.S. the term engineer is a protected title, so my take really only applies within the U.S.
I would say tho, a lot of programmers in the U.S. do get called software engineers. Just depends on where you go I guess.
I don't think what you study in your degree is the defining factor. Obviously this is country-specific but I feel you job title isn't always linked 1:1 to your title.
I studied Industrial Engineering, which in Spain exists as a degree but not as a job position. Position wise, I've been a mechanical design engineer, a manufacturing engineer, an automation engineer, robotics engineer, and these days I'm mostly a software engineer. I'm definitely specialised in engineering, regardless of the tools I'm applying to solve the task at hand.
My title technically is aerospace engineer, but yeah I get what you mean.
Code Ninja Rockstar Wizard.
Yes
i can tell a programmer didn't write those questions because "code ninja" isn't one of the options
Yes, yes, Engineer is protected in a lot of spaces. Even here. That said the university programme I've attended was to make me into a "Sotware Engineer" not a "Developer". This university is a university for engineers.
Obviously I don't have to requalify every year to remain an Engineer, but saying that I am not an Engineer is factually untrue.
I dont care about names but to be offended because it says Software Engineer on my resume is just dumb.
Also we design a lot of crucial systems. (Such as any RTOS, banking systems and so on and so forth)
Engineer, most girls probably wouldn't think twice about software* but engineer has a ring to it. Like doctor.
"The computer guy" which is wrong in all ways but somehow correct
Dev.
Code whisperer
(Until i have to deal with legacy code. Then im usually screaming obscenities)
monkey
It'd love to be called not burdened with a completely unrealistic software development plan.
An Enthusiast Googler
This is just factual.
“Punching bag” is an appropriate title for how the field feels sometimes.
I think typically A, B, C, and F are acceptable to most people. I certainly wouldn't mind any of those descriptions. D feels antiquated. E is too broad. G just sounds like a hobbyist.
Everyone who works on making software is a developer, even people who don’t program at all. people who make art for software work in software development. A “coder” only writes code. It’s more of a task than a job. A software engineer does technical design and probably also codes.
The reality is they all mean the same thing and are used interchangeably in different companies.
Good girl
Nah, nah, nah. You all got it wrong. There's one name and one name only: tech support.
The on-er off-er
Not a programmer. I’m a net admin.
Actually my title is “Senior Network Architect”. I hate it. I feel like it detracts from real architects, who have licensure and actual training from an actual school.
I hate it as an architect, and I hated it as an “engineer”, for the same reason.
Yes, there’s a lot of complexity and planning, especially at larger scales. But it’s mostly self-taught, some webinars, and a lot of on-the-job (read: trial-by-fire) training.
When it comes to telling computers what to do, I have no idea what to call it. I write Python scripts and Ansible modules, I guess. That doesn’t make me any of those titles though. Some times I poor-mans deamonize my scripts (while true loop) and pack them in a container.
Using some of the same tools doesn’t make me any more of the same title.
More importantly which do potential employers want to see on my resume because they're shifty bastards always moving the goal posta around
If you call a dev a programmer and they don’t get huffy they are hands down one of the raddest people you’ll ever meet.
I’ve had so many wacky job titles that at this point i dont care as long as i get paid.
Sorcerer of servers
Is "Sir" too much to ask for?
My friends call me "Please fix my printer".
Code whispers
At work they just call me: "Put those pens back and get outta here; you were fired weeks ago!"
Deputy assistant senior vice president software engineering manager
software engineer (engineer for short), software developer (dev/developer for short), software designer (although that last one sounds weird). the job is a lot more than programming, depending on your position it can be mostly communication or mostly engineering or mostly something else entirely. maybe even mostly sitting on your ass all day!
Tech Priest Litanizer
My dad had the rare chance to name his position whatever he wanted, but the higher ups still rejected his choice of Grand Poobah.
Mr Tibbs
Serious question, not a native speaker: Why do people in the Anglosphere refer to mostly-software companies as tech companies, or to software developers as tech workers?
Because even in those companies many of the 'computer people' are not software developers. Tech workers is a catch all term for most people at those companies.
But the term isn't used for technology outside of software companies, for example, mechanical and electrical engineering
There's tech companies that don't work with software
Such as?
Anything hardware related that doesn't program in-house, by definition.
Tech is short-hand for technology.
So, technology companies and technology workers.
But the question was why
Thanks for responding but that wasn't the question
Machinists / mechanical engineering are technology workers, so are civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc, but only software gets called "tech"
I hate that they took away my analyst title. I'm not a software engineer dammit. I don't even have an IDE installed and haven't done any programming in 10+ years.
My designers are still systems analysis. The odd (scaled) agile jobs (PO, SM, RTE) are the difficult ones to explain to people outside the industry.
I usually go by "fuck you". Like someone yells out of their cube "who's goddamn code is this?!?! Ah, fuck you"
Also codemancer
Even in the trade myself for 30 years, I have nfc. Probably not Engineer (by itself) though.
As someone who is in tech… not sure, either.
Software Author/
Author
Chief bit twiddler
Bit Banger
or A,B,C,G
Source Slapper
I'd prefer senior developer but HR calls me a senior engineer.
I personally believe if you are writing novel IP software you are engineering, if you are just connecting cloud tools or writing basic ETL stuff, that's developing.
I'm probably 40/60 eng/dev. And 200% meetings.
"...daughter dearest."
"Wow, this guy programs."
I am an engineer. Most developers aren't though, unfortunately.
If you call them engineers I'm going to engineer your femur into two pieces.
Not only does this meme ignore the fact there's only 4 choices in Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, it doesn't even do an even number of them leaving it annoyingly lopsided
Should have gone with something like “HaxorMaster1447”
I use software engineer but whatevs they're all good.
Coder isn't a professional title. Software engineer and engineer are very broad of a term, because they can cover alot of work that's not directly coding software. Not all programmers write software code, some just 'program' software that's already written.
So i think developer is the best term for someone that 'develops' and write software code for a living. Or even software developer, those terms are interchangable.
Feces Fling Server Monkey, 2nd class.
I am partial to "code monkey"
On a serious note, I usually refer to myself as a developer or a software engineer when I wanna sound a bit more important.
Codebender
But everything changed when the file nation attacked
And although his coding skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he deploys anything to production.
Thats rough, buddy.
My first coding project got axed.
What? Everyone else went on a code learning field trip with Zuko. Now it’s my turn.
Secret tunnel! Through the firewall!
Codesmith
Filerunner
Bugbreaker
Diskbringer
Clouddancer
Docwatcher
Screenweaver
IfElsecaller
'netward
Codesmith
The orders of the Devs Radiant must stand again
Technomancer
this is basically the 2000s "Code Ninja Wizard Monkey Robot" all over again.
spork!
Not engineer.
At least here in Germany, engineer is a protected profession. Other than that: All of the above.
Interesting. In the US, all kinds of jobs are called engineers
Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician.. etc were all engineers. In Germany it's as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command
I mean, it's a protected term in Canada too but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher salaries.
My cousin who's an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.
I left aeronautical engineering to become a software "engineer" for similar reasons, salary and work culture. Actual engineering pays quite terribly in the UK, it's a fair bit better in Germany or the US from what I hear.
It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying "doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment". So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say 'senators' or something). Extremely class divided social society that.
Damn I’m surprised to hear that!
TBF some plumbers and electricians are qualified engineers, just not all.
I believe job titles specifically are(were?) considered in exempt / non-exempt status for overtime.
Why Administrator is in a lot of titles also.
Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the "software engineer" or more accurately "robotics engineer" badge.
If you studied a technical science and do coding for that you may be allowed to be called ingenieur.
How come they don't count? They're figuring out how the machines should work, for money. That's engineering, right? (I'm an American mechanical engineer)
In Canada you have to be qualified and licensed to call yourself an engineer. There are people who can use the title "software engineer", but it's not the majority of people working in development.
Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.
Sparkling Technologist.
That is not entirely true. It's a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it's more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is "mainly" of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it's more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.
They have to protect German engineering at all costs
Here in portugal too. But there is a specific engineering field which is informatic engineering? Software engineer essentially
It is in Canada too but that doesn't seem to stop companies from using the term
I'm in tech and "computer programmer" has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as "the Nintendo" or "the game station".
Has there been a programmer for anything other than a computer
angry domino logic programmer noises
Do you program domino logic on a electric board or on a computer?
https://youtu.be/OpLU__bhu2w?si=ZXToQKl8SbhZni5O
Yes. And, by the way, "computer" was once the name of a profession, carried out by people.
Television programming? It’s a stretch, one might say a broad-casting of the term.
I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).
That was the first time someone didn't understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.
That's funny, plain "programmer" would be my preferred term if it weren't for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I've landed on "software engineer" because that's what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.
I was hired with the official title "software engineer," then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a "SE/DE" (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to "data engineer". My job functions have not changed the entire time I've been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there's not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.
Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn't even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.
I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because "It sounds better." I'd have to say I agree!
Here in Canada you can't call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves "developer". When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.
This one is going in my dad joke arsenal. Thank you
Electron herder
I am the worst kind of programmer, I'm a Scope Inflator.
H.
Code monkey
Code monkey like Cheetos.
Code monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew.
Great song and free as in freedom.
Good show
Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone's title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is....
I'm more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)... And even looking for a job for myself, it's a nightmare... Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a "remote support technician", by their definition, this was "remote" as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don't even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were "remote" aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a "technician".
It's bullshit all the way down.
When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had "only" applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn't bother replying but I couldn't help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was "CCNA" (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up.... Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.
This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There's too many "admin" related jobs.... "Support"? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.
That's not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that's extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn't very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don't have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app... I know that because I've applied to such positions and didn't even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.
Which takes me to another point, you don't get rejected. You get ghosted. They don't want you? Fine, tell me that. You don't even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I'm going to keep trying no matter what, but still...
The whole job market is a hellscape.
Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don't mean shit outside of your specific workplace. "Lead customer success technician" ... Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other "technical" things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they're just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don't play the game, your left behind.
I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It's all word salad and I hate it.
We are all SEO Engineers on this cursed day.
Oh my god.
The reality is also, that development is so extremely diverse, that it's hard to find umbrella-enough terms to describe a job.
For example, I'm a senior software developer on paper.
I'm not senior, not even 10 years job experience. But I seem to be rather good at what I'm doing, so I'm a senior now.
I'm also hardly writing any code. I talk to customers about what they want their software to do, I talk to management about how many people I need, I review pull requests, I talk to junior devs about their problems, etc, etc. Maybe 10% of my time is actual code. But what title other than "developer" should I have?
Manager
A few more titles that you will hate, but actually describe your role. You are in no sense just a senior developer.
You are an
Which one fits best, you have to decide. But i would put this up on my resume if i had your responsibilities.
Yeah, I struggle with that.
Recently, maybe DevSecOps sounds most accurate, and I avoid talking rank so I don’t piss off that Prima Donna
Maybe "software producer"? (a term I've never seen used anywhere but that sort of makes sense when you think about what a movie producer does, for example)
In my career i have gone from Systems Engineer to professional services to Profesional services team lead to Senior Systems administrator to now just Systems administrator. All doing basically the same IT stuff at progressively higher levels other than the team lead part.
When i was looking for my last job i applied for a remote admin job and experienced exactly what you described. I was on the third interview and was asked when i was going to move to the area and if i wanted a relocation allowance as part of the offer. Uhh what? To them a remote admin was an administrator that went to remote sites. What a waste of my time
machine whisperer
Hackerman
"Job titles are actually a fluid concept - why feel a strong need to label everything?" :-D
My job title has changed 5x more than my actual job. I honestly don't even know what my current title is.
I wonder how many man-hours (and at what average salary) has been spent deciding on title changes that have literally zero impact at my company. I'm sure every change involves meetings full of highly-paid executives.
"I (want to keep my job and therefore I) AGREE WITH YOU 100%"
They collect the big bucks, the rest of us can suck dirt -
barelynot able to afford a home, food, medical care, etc. Oh wait, sorry, I meant "YES SIR/MAM!"Tech-priest.
Magos.
O, si es necesario, El Señor Arch-Magos.
Todos alaban al Santo Omnissiah, y así sucesivamente.
Dale?
I can neither confirm nor deny.
ᵀᶦᵐᵉ ᶦˢ ᵃ ᶠˡᵃᵗ ᶜᶦʳᶜˡᵉ.
I put "Chaotic Neutral Technomancer" as my title at work and HR said I had to change it.
Anything except G
What about OG?
That I can live with
what's up, my G?
A "good girl"
Wtf. I came here to make this same comment.
Thought I'd be super clever haha. Take my upvote instead
I'm a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I'm also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).
sounds like a cool job y'all hiring haha jk unless
Not on my team, unfortunately but, I'll check. What languages/experience have you got?
Oh man, I didn't think that'd work haha... Kind of you to offer but I was recently promoted and wouldn't feel right leaving now. Partially out of respect for my boss and partially because we are severely understaffed. But seriously, thanks for offering to ask around. Very generous of you to offer your help to a stranger ❤️
I'm sorry, come again?
Sorry to hear that. I hit the same pothole about 6 months ago. I had been so fine with avoiding JS, but the guys building our admin console broke their build and couldn’t figure out how to fix it. Even worse, then I had to write up best practices for JS
Yeah. Fortunately, I didn't have to do the programming. Unfortunately, I had to guide the debug. Happy to help people learn but the language, especially in its typing, is just awful.
I'm learning that I'm just enough of a front end dev to make a very ugly site. Navigating all the various CSS and JS frameworks feels like pulling teeth.
Having a familiarity is absolutely a great thing. The syntax isn't alien, so, debug and guiding juniors through figuring out why their project isn't working isn't too terrible. The typing is probably what drives me crazy the most. It's just bad and the standard library doesn't seem to be equipped to handle every type that it can "support" cleanly.
Digital wizard.
I don't know where "software engineer" started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don't have to do. I've always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.
Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn't gatekeep words.
With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.
How long until they realize software engineering has overlap with public safety too?
Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people's personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.
I like the title only because I got a degree in computer engineering and passed the fundamentals of electrical engineering exam. I definitely don't do any engineering but it makes me feel like my degree wasn't a waste.
Edit: also that was an 8 hour test that I really took for no reason.
Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.
You have to do that to be a "Chartered Engineer", "Professional Engineer" etc. Some states require you to have some kind of registration to practice in some roles.
"Engineer" remains an unprotected term in all states and territories as far as I know but I could be wrong. It's definitely unprotected federally.
Funny because HR doesn't know either and its their job. In the US, you just need to slap engineer at the end and you are golden.
I'm a Senior Computer Software Developer Programming Engineer, or SCSDPE (which is pronounced Skuzz-Deep), and I will be irreparably miffed if you get it wrong.
For your convenience, I also accept "that guy that sits weirdly close to the water fountain", "hey", and "paid keyboard user".
This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I've talked to about the subject.
Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.
Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.
When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I'm referring more to the role that you're fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.
We usually accept any of the terms though because it's very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.
TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.
Whats it called when you know how to code, but you're shit at it, but you're still in charge of several much more experienced developers?
CTO ;)
Nice! I think I should ask for a raise.
Hell yeah you should
In my experience all terms are used pretty interchangeably (well, rarely programmer or coder, I guess), though I prefer software engineer.
I also prefer engineer but that's mostly just due to the complexity of my current role vs my old one.
I have the words "software engineer" in my job title but I hate it.
We aren't engineers, we're a bunch of undisciplined hackers, engineers have standards and ethics.
Programmer is my preferred term, or software developer.
Code monkey is also acceptable.
Depends. I've studied for my engineering title, I have standards and ethics. Requirements, specification, design, architecture, programming, testing, integration, delivery, everything is part of my job. If you are a programmer, you only do programming.
Engineers put a lot of work into figuring out ways to sidestep their standards and ethics
Good ones don't.
But then it all circles back around. I have advanced degrees in (non software) engineering from actual top tier engineering schools and I should not be trusted to write production code. That's what software engineers are for.
I disagree with that. I mean, I don't know how good you are at writing software, so maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near production code. But, just because code is "production" doesn't mean it should exclusively be the domain of people who are "software engineers".
In my mind, software engineering involves implementing new algorithms that are from a computer science paper you just read, or architecting a big and complex system. Or, if there are lives on the line. I'd want people writing code for a new Space Shuttle to think of themselves as engineers, not just code monkeys.
But, a self-taught developer is fine to update production code for a web app as long as they write the correct tests and get it peer reviewed.
I prefer Software Engineer, mostly because I studied at an engineering school and have a degree in Software Engineering. My actual titles have varied throughout my career, but I overall consider myself a software engineer.
Same. My current role is most accurately DeOps or DevSecOps - my education actually predates “Software Engineer” but it was a Software degree from an Engineering school, and with a more technical focus than the similar degree from Arts and Sciences. But yes, every time I due process improvement, standards and practices, etc, that makes it “Software Engineer”. And every time I have to explain to developers how their stuff works, yes, I’m “The Engineer”, capitalized
I'm curious if you've looked up whether you're allowed to call yourself an engineer in some states (US centric of course)? I read years ago that some states really frown on calling yourself an engineer if you aren't a certain small range of engineers that they have codified (pun intended) in law.
I think that's only a civil engineering thing.
Source: work in the industry, and "Civil Engineer" and "Professional Engineer" are legally protected titles. Other than that, it's fair game. Like, there are "Design Engineers" in the civil sector that don't have their Professional Engineer certification.
data scientist
code monkey
alchemist
Code money get up get coffee, code monkey go to job.
h a c k e r
1337 H4x0r
"Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" -Shodan
The Wizard
"Call me dickmaster"
what a cit.
Never thought the wizard installing my programs were an actual human.
Black Sabbath intensifies
I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client
At our company, the person who specializes in that is dubbed Software Architect. Every dev is expected to uphold those values to a certain degree.
Space wizard will do thanks
I've set my role on my company's slack profile as "code connoisseur"
Surely that is reserved for QA!
I think "prompt engineer" is the best job title on multiple levels
Employed
A, A, A, A
(Hand clapping)
A, A, A, A
(Hand clapping intensifies)
A, A, A, A, A, A
(Techno beat drops)
to those wondering: https://youtu.be/XxbJw8PrIkc
So... much... cocaine
Why TF is he so covered in sweat? Was this filmed in Florida in July?
Specifically https://youtu.be/KMU0tzLwhbE
So... Developers?
My boss once referred to me as “code bastard”. I’m keeping it.
Scrum Lord has a air of royalty to it aswel
Ummm, keyboard jockey??? Code monkey??? can we get some respect here?
Code slanger. Code wrangler. Software person.
A load of the devs at my original dotnet shop are still there, but are now called stuff like “Vice President Regional Director Lord Protector Master Technical Architect”. I suspect they’re all still writing VB.
I have rotated between countless titles over several decades. What I do hasn't really changed. Currently I'm not even aware what my official title is and when someone asks I usually say something along the lines of I make IT go but in my native language.
You may call me Computer God. Or God for short if i deem it acceptable.
I'm only human, though I am working on that...
"resource"
Button pusher
"Software craftsman"
Code Artisan
Bitsmith
codesmith
If they have a degree in engineering, then they are an engineer.
Yeah, it’s weird to me as an engineer that when I’m on Lemmy people use that word to mean programmer. Nah, I work in a factory and had to learn thermodynamics
In my mind, the line is that an engineer is someone that can commit a crime by doing their job incompetently. If the only things at risk are your job and your pride, that's a different thing.
"I program all day, so there's a lot of trial and error. My friend is a negligent civil engineer, so there's a lot of error and trial."
Ooh the EEs will haaaaaate that lol. I generally disagree with that statement but I also totally see it.
If you're an electrical engineer who works in a nuclear power plant and your incompetence leads to a meltdown, you're going to go on trial. Possibly also if you're doing software engineering for the control systems of that power plant.
If you're a software engineer who works on Lemmy, not so much.
Same here in Quebec (but I don't know if it's a Canada thing), the title of engineer is reserved to folks who completed an engineering degree.
It’s always been weird to me as someone who isn’t an engineer in degree or title why those with degrees in engineering think people shouldn’t use an accurately descriptive word like engineer when it’s perfectly appropriate just because it’s a little to close to the title of their licensed profession.
Engineer is a verb, to devise or contrive something. Simply, to design a construct. A programmer by definition engineers a program and is therefore by the rules of the English language, an engineer.
They may not be a Licensed Professional Engineer, but an Engineer they remain.
What if you have a degree in engineering but you are a surgeon?
Do you.... do you do rocket surgery?
I'd assume you would also have a degree in surgery
I usually say "I'm a computer toucher" or "computer programmer" if I don't want to talk about what I do. If I want to flex some nerd cred, and/or boast a little, I'll usually say "I work with machine automation" or "robotics". It tends to get a more curious response and I can talk about some of the weird stuff I've helped make.
That sounds kinky
My parents say I "do computers" and that's good enough for me.
My wife says either I'm in IT or I work with computers.
I just say problem solver.
CopyPaster
I would prefer that I was not referred to at all. Especially if you are a PM.
I like Computer Programmer. No mistaking it. Developers are people who organise houses to be built. Engineers work on trains. Coders encrypt data. No matter what nonsense word salad it says on my email signature, when I'm at a barbecue I say I'm a computer programmer.
When I'm in a particularly jaunty mood, I go with "software artist".
Software artist reminds me of the sandwich artists at subway.
So you're the guy who organises the computer literacy programmes in schools?
I know a guy who just says he stacks shelves at Tesco as he cannot be bothred to explain 😂
I used to work for Cisco (the huge router etc. company) but my mom thought I was working for Sysco (the food services supply company). She was very surprised to learn that I had anything at all to do with computers.
I hear the voice of the machine spirit!
Consultant
This is the correct answer, it includes everything a full stack dev might do
I like to call myself a codemonkey
Do you like Tab and Mountain Dew?
I have always considered myself an engineer because I’m part of a multidisciplinary engineering organization designing a physical product that has embedded software. And “engineer” is the word at the end of my degrees, I guess.
But if somebody called me by any of those terms in the OP I would answer. And if somebody who works on an app or a video game calls themselves an engineer, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.
My only conclusion is that we here, who spend our days specifying exactly what we want computers to do, are not so great specifying ourselves exactly.
I only want to be called darling. Or a filthy worm, depending on the situation
Filthy darling
If you push tickets - software developer at best.
If you iteratively solve problems by learning, building models, and trying hard to break said models until a sufficiently robust one remains - welcome to engineering.
When people ask me what I do for a living I tell them that I furiously bang on a keyboard until the computer does what I want.
Idc, just please don't call me a coder, it makes me sound like I'm a script kiddy.
The Plague.
Uh... Mr. The Plague... Uh. Something weird is happening on the net....
It’s funny when I’m looking for work and people try to help me find jobs. I’ve been sent jobs for “coder” which turned out to be “medical code entry into EPIC” and architect because they saw another job with “software architect”.
The Intergalactic Ninja Sultan of Revenue Development
It depends who I'm talking to and where I live. Where I live, engineer is a protected title and requires certification/etc so that takes it out of the race. That leaves the other options. Generally I am a Web Developer to people my age or younger, to people older than me I am usually a Computer Programmer but also sometimes a Developer or Software Developer instead. Realistically, I am a Full Stack Website Developer.
Referring to my job doesn't get any easier even as someone in tech.
Lives ARE on the line. It was faulty software that caused the Boeing 737 Max to crash twice, killing 346 people. Software runs your car, the trains, rockets, literally everything.
All engineers not just civil?
Remember when they tried to make ninja, Rockstar, and guru a thing?
Microsoft still uses those phrases un-ironically all the time.
Ow God I just cringed so hard I partly digested my skin. All those wacky Microsoft conferences. I've never felt so infantalised.
At some jobs, I can get away with "Señor Developer" or "Computer Toucher". Those are the nice ones.
Otherwise it tends to be "Senior Software Engineer" that carries the least constricting baggage.
I SWEAR big company middle managers hear "developer" and they can only ever see you as an infant who without guidance would just keep coding some absolute random shit and not think about product, market, customers, integration, or prioritize their own work.
I'm technically an aerospace engineer, but all I do is code most days. I think it depends highly on what you do, since my job also involves doing things not strictly coding related as well, I always slap the engineer title next to it. If you only code, then it's more appropriate to say software dev, or programmer. But, again its highly dependent on your role.
And as other people have mentioned, seems like outside the U.S. the term engineer is a protected title, so my take really only applies within the U.S.
I would say tho, a lot of programmers in the U.S. do get called software engineers. Just depends on where you go I guess.
I don't think what you study in your degree is the defining factor. Obviously this is country-specific but I feel you job title isn't always linked 1:1 to your title.
I studied Industrial Engineering, which in Spain exists as a degree but not as a job position. Position wise, I've been a mechanical design engineer, a manufacturing engineer, an automation engineer, robotics engineer, and these days I'm mostly a software engineer. I'm definitely specialised in engineering, regardless of the tools I'm applying to solve the task at hand.
My title technically is aerospace engineer, but yeah I get what you mean.
Code Ninja Rockstar Wizard.
Yes
i can tell a programmer didn't write those questions because "code ninja" isn't one of the options
Yes, yes, Engineer is protected in a lot of spaces. Even here. That said the university programme I've attended was to make me into a "Sotware Engineer" not a "Developer". This university is a university for engineers. Obviously I don't have to requalify every year to remain an Engineer, but saying that I am not an Engineer is factually untrue.
I dont care about names but to be offended because it says Software Engineer on my resume is just dumb.
Also we design a lot of crucial systems. (Such as any RTOS, banking systems and so on and so forth)
Engineer, most girls probably wouldn't think twice about software* but engineer has a ring to it. Like doctor.
"The computer guy" which is wrong in all ways but somehow correct
Dev.
Code whisperer
(Until i have to deal with legacy code. Then im usually screaming obscenities)
monkey
It'd love to be called not burdened with a completely unrealistic software development plan.
An Enthusiast Googler
This is just factual.
“Punching bag” is an appropriate title for how the field feels sometimes.
I think typically A, B, C, and F are acceptable to most people. I certainly wouldn't mind any of those descriptions. D feels antiquated. E is too broad. G just sounds like a hobbyist.
My favourite for myself is garbage man. Shit rolls downhill so it always ends in my lap.
Another good one is fixer like the mob.
I like calling myself the "designated network Patsy"
"engineer" is different to "programmer". A programmer writes code, while an engineer does more than that, including system design and architecture.
Everyone who works on making software is a developer, even people who don’t program at all. people who make art for software work in software development. A “coder” only writes code. It’s more of a task than a job. A software engineer does technical design and probably also codes.
The reality is they all mean the same thing and are used interchangeably in different companies.
Good girl
Nah, nah, nah. You all got it wrong. There's one name and one name only: tech support.
The on-er off-er
Not a programmer. I’m a net admin.
Actually my title is “Senior Network Architect”. I hate it. I feel like it detracts from real architects, who have licensure and actual training from an actual school.
I hate it as an architect, and I hated it as an “engineer”, for the same reason.
Yes, there’s a lot of complexity and planning, especially at larger scales. But it’s mostly self-taught, some webinars, and a lot of on-the-job (read: trial-by-fire) training.
When it comes to telling computers what to do, I have no idea what to call it. I write Python scripts and Ansible modules, I guess. That doesn’t make me any of those titles though. Some times I poor-mans deamonize my scripts (while true loop) and pack them in a container.
Using some of the same tools doesn’t make me any more of the same title.
Computer code program development engineer, Esq.
I make computers do useful things.
This exactly. Sometimes I also make the computer do what the client asked for.
Edit: And there was that one time the client asked for the computer to do something useful. But I think that was a fluke.
More importantly which do potential employers want to see on my resume because they're shifty bastards always moving the goal posta around
If you call a dev a programmer and they don’t get huffy they are hands down one of the raddest people you’ll ever meet.
I’ve had so many wacky job titles that at this point i dont care as long as i get paid.
Sorcerer of servers
Is "Sir" too much to ask for?
My friends call me "Please fix my printer".
Code whispers
At work they just call me: "Put those pens back and get outta here; you were fired weeks ago!"
Deputy assistant senior vice president software engineering manager
software engineer (engineer for short), software developer (dev/developer for short), software designer (although that last one sounds weird). the job is a lot more than programming, depending on your position it can be mostly communication or mostly engineering or mostly something else entirely. maybe even mostly sitting on your ass all day!
Tech Priest Litanizer
My dad had the rare chance to name his position whatever he wanted, but the higher ups still rejected his choice of Grand Poobah.
Mr Tibbs
Serious question, not a native speaker: Why do people in the Anglosphere refer to mostly-software companies as tech companies, or to software developers as tech workers?
Because even in those companies many of the 'computer people' are not software developers. Tech workers is a catch all term for most people at those companies.
But the term isn't used for technology outside of software companies, for example, mechanical and electrical engineering
There's tech companies that don't work with software
Such as?
Anything hardware related that doesn't program in-house, by definition.
Tech is short-hand for technology.
So, technology companies and technology workers.
But the question was why
Thanks for responding but that wasn't the question
Machinists / mechanical engineering are technology workers, so are civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc, but only software gets called "tech"
I hate that they took away my analyst title. I'm not a software engineer dammit. I don't even have an IDE installed and haven't done any programming in 10+ years.
My designers are still systems analysis. The odd (scaled) agile jobs (PO, SM, RTE) are the difficult ones to explain to people outside the industry.
I usually go by "fuck you". Like someone yells out of their cube "who's goddamn code is this?!?! Ah, fuck you"
Also codemancer
Even in the trade myself for 30 years, I have nfc. Probably not Engineer (by itself) though.
As someone who is in tech… not sure, either.
Software Author/ Author
Chief bit twiddler
Bit Banger
or A,B,C,G
Source Slapper
I'd prefer senior developer but HR calls me a senior engineer.
I personally believe if you are writing novel IP software you are engineering, if you are just connecting cloud tools or writing basic ETL stuff, that's developing.
I'm probably 40/60 eng/dev. And 200% meetings.
"...daughter dearest."
"Wow, this guy programs."
I am an engineer. Most developers aren't though, unfortunately.
And Computer Engineering is none of these.
I guess we're going with B
H. Daddy
If you call them engineers I'm going to engineer your femur into two pieces.
Not only does this meme ignore the fact there's only 4 choices in Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, it doesn't even do an even number of them leaving it annoyingly lopsided
Should have gone with something like “HaxorMaster1447”
I use software engineer but whatevs they're all good.
Coder isn't a professional title. Software engineer and engineer are very broad of a term, because they can cover alot of work that's not directly coding software. Not all programmers write software code, some just 'program' software that's already written.
So i think developer is the best term for someone that 'develops' and write software code for a living. Or even software developer, those terms are interchangable.
Feces Fling Server Monkey, 2nd class.
I am partial to "code monkey"
On a serious note, I usually refer to myself as a developer or a software engineer when I wanna sound a bit more important.
Light Monkey
"Software Development Engineer"
Digital archæologist. Bitshifter.
"coder-codewriter"
MtF Trans